Anyone in the Crankshaft Business?

[gazza2006au]

Are there any members in here in the engine rebuilding or crankshaft repairing businesses? i need advice :)

a few days ago i picked up a Honda 50hp outboard it was recently rebuilt by rookies and they used the wrong size bearings they complained the engine was "knocking" so they paid a mechanic to strip the engine and find the problem...

i have one worn con-rod journal the rest can be polished, i just came back from my automotive engine re-builder who does various other petrol engine crankshaft jobs and he said if i cant get a .5mm or 20 thou oversize/under size cant remember exactly the crank is no good now i asked about having the one journal welded he said that cost about $450 each journal OMG :o

now i just done a google search and found this place in the USA http://www.crankshaftcraftsmen.com/services/ i've never had a crank welded before but is $450 excessive? that shop in the USA charges $52-$68 per journal

[kind_cir]

Should be able to get oversize bearings for it. Then it's a matter of machining the crank to accept those bearings.

[gazza2006au]

yeah i think it was Spanyard who sent me the Honda bearing instructions but i cant work out what thickness the bearings are so i thought i maybe better off restoring that one journal to OEM spec's

[Noelm]

I would see if I could find a second hand one, either here or OS

[Fed]

http://www.flamecoatings.com.au
Give them a call they're in Moorebank.

[gazza2006au]

perfect thanks Fed i'll call them monday they are about 30mins drive from me

[BM]

Plenty of repairers available Gazza that can repair non hardened cranks. IE: running white metal bearings. If it's a hardened crankshaft (as per a needle roller bearing arrangement) I don't believe there is anyone doing it in Australia anymore.

[FNQCairns]

I don't believe there is anyone doing it in Australia anymore.

Seriouse! thats a terrible state of affairs if true.

[trevs1979]

the cost difference i would say besides the usa being cheaper rates of pay ..... would most likely be shops welding to repair damage ,vs yours you need them all welded the whole way round and machined down back to size it would take days to build up and machine back to size

[gazza2006au]

Plenty of repairers available Gazza that can repair non hardened cranks. IE: running white metal bearings. If it's a hardened crankshaft (as per a needle roller bearing arrangement) I don't believe there is anyone doing it in Australia anymore.

BM who do i see about making the white bearings? im looking for the cheapest alternative here, asecondhand crank on american ebay sell for $400-$500 but looking at there pictures most need a polish as well so that bumps the price up more

[gazza2006au]

the journal in question is my second last picture in post #1 i was told the rest can be polished, i tried the "penny test" and only that one journal is rough

ok just added a screen shot of the workshop manual the automotive bloke said if i can find a 20 thou size bearing it'll work

looking at the screen show how do i work out the bearing sizes? i really dont like imperial....

i checked my crank and rods for markings it "2 B" (yellow bearings), last owners were running "2 C" (green bearing's)

[FNQCairns]

Just a thought and might lead nowhere but to be slightly better informed, how much is a brand new crank landed? from this seller I trust personally from many perfectly completed orders.....they will sell honda to OZ? hate geo caching like behaviours...it's way too Mafia/Cabal for me so I black-ban the brand out of respect for myself and others mostly...I know it's an outdated consideration today.

boats.net

good luck as the exchange rate does suck modernly.

brand new replacement gear like this always brings awesome advantages from start to finish.

[gazza2006au]

Just a thought and might lead nowhere but to be slightly better informed, how much is a brand new crank landed? from this seller I trust personally from many perfectly completed orders.....they will sell honda to OZ? hate geo caching like behaviours...it's way too Mafia/Cabal for me so I black-ban the brand out of respect for myself and others mostly...I know it's an outdated consideration today.

boats.net

good luck as the exchange rate does suck modernly.

brand new replacement gear like this always brings awesome advantages from start to finish.

actually your onto something there FNQ, i have two honda 50's both for rebuild one has missing ID but does have the serial number stamped into the crankcase in big letters i believe its a 1995 honda the one i need the crank done on and i just checked boats net there only US$580 but our dollar does really suck atm that equals around AUD$810 without shipping

i'll see how much a used crank is in oz on monday i'll also see the other options posted above hopefully i can find a cheap alternative

just checked the local honda microfiche new crank is $1540 in oz

[BM]

BM who do i see about making the white bearings? im looking for the cheapest alternative here, asecondhand crank on american ebay sell for $400-$500 but looking at there pictures most need a polish as well so that bumps the price up more

Gazza, whoever regrinds your crank journal will be able to tell you what undersize you will need. He may need to know what undersize bearings that Honda can supply and then they can regrind to that.

[gazza2006au]

Gazza, whoever regrinds your crank journal will be able to tell you what undersize you will need. He may need to know what undersize bearings that Honda can supply and then they can regrind to that.
BM i was told i need a bearing 20 thou's or .5mm but i cant work out Honda's bearing sizes in post 11

[copie]

Firstly the crankshaft needs to inspected by professional it needs a full measure and to be checked for straightness. If it is a hardened shaft it can all be done here in Brisbane, the shaft is ground and then nitride and linished. Damaged journals can also be repaired (spay welded) but all at a cost.
Give Dave a call at Crankshaft Engineering Browns Plains 07-38067488

Mark

[BM]

Hi Copie, on 27 July 2012 you recommended this business to Gazza for the same thing (hardened crank repair). Gazza rang them back then and was told they don't do hardened cranks.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/archive/index.php/t-186188.html?

[BM]

Seriouse! thats a terrible state of affairs if true.

Paul England and Co were the last company that was doing them. Unless since 2012 someone else has started to repair them.

[copie]

Hi Copie, on 27 July 2012 you recommended this business to Gazza for the same thing (hardened crank repair). Gazza rang them back then and was told they don't do hardened cranks.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/archive/index.php/t-186188.html?

I have used these guys for more than 15/20 years I have had many cranks ground and hardened by them Honda's and many diesel shafts (the hardening process is sent out of their shop to a company call Heat Treatment). Having said that I have never done an outboard crank and or 2 stroke crank, so I am sure there would have been a reason not to do the shaft last time. The hardness of a crankshaft can be tested using the Rockwell or Brinell test to determine what hardness it was/or needs to be, I know some shafts need to be harder than the nitriding process offers but I have not come across these in the automotive engine reconditioning in my experience.
Hope that clears it up a little and good luck with the repair.

Mark

[BM]

That's really weird then that they have done hardening on other cranks when they said no to Gazza back then. If they can do a nitrided surface then they should be capable of doing an outboard crank. Maybe they choose not to? Gazza how's your memory from 3 yrs ago!

[gazza2006au]

BM cant remember mate too long ago i have called so many people since and my memory is shot, i just done a full engine rebuild on my Nissan X-Trail 3 months ago and i cant recall much about it either ;D:o and im only 34 haha

i will call those shops mentioned in earlier post and see what comes about of this situation

im really hopping to find a shop that can thermal spray weld the crank because i would like it back to OEM size for whoever buys the motor off of me and needs repairs in another 5-10 years will be able to use the Honda colour bearings

failing that if a white metal bearing is cheap under $200 that will be the option i'll go i think

[gazza2006au]

And than failing that i'll have to part her out, head looks ok,gearbox is there along with cowlings, i only paid a couple peanuts for it but i just hate seeing engines go to scrap i love putting life back into what was once a brand new piece of machinery

[gazza2006au]

not looking good called the place Fed mentioned they passed me onto another guy abdul who's phone was turned off i than called a place in sydney and there going to call me back

[Steeler]

Show some patience, put it in the corner and just wait for one to turn up. I wish i had a dollar for every time i needed a bit that was hard to come by when you are searching high and low and when you have almost forgotten about it it shows up.

Last crankshaft needed here i picked from the states on ebay just browsing " newly listed " each day.

Cheers

[gazza2006au]

called some more shops around sydney, dunc and foster said last job they done on welding a crank went out the door at $550 for one journal

called FNQ outboard wreckers these guys have been super reliable in the past for hard bits to find they said a good used crank $550


Show some patience, put it in the corner and just wait for one to turn up. I wish i had a dollar for every time i needed a bit that was hard to come by when you are searching high and low and when you have almost forgotten about it it shows up.

Last crankshaft needed here i picked from the states on ebay just browsing " newly listed " each day.

Cheers
that is a good idea Steeler i just dont have the room atm that's why its stored in the back of my car as my garden shed is jammed full of goodies i am planning on hiring a kennards storage soon i think the sooner the better somewhere to park everything
this motor didn't come with T&T but i still bought it thinking no worries they cant cost much, FNQ outboard wreckers quoted $800 for the tilt and trim :o