help with size/weight

[KEMEL K]

Hi all,
after some info on weights of the larger model hard top plate boats 7m+ that some of you guys currently run. Looking to start build of new boat soon but would like to keep weight as close to the 3.5t the cruiser can (legally) tow. Dont know "outwide" but this is the sort of rig im talking about , looking at his build thread.( not with his level of fit out though) and also will only run single engine. Any one with personal expirence regarding the APX weight of their plate hard top alloy boat on the trailer heading to ramp would be greatly apperciated, with a few details of engines, fuel load, etc now if your not keen to post the weight of your rig with details on a public forum please please pm me. Currently run a 7.4m c.c. Plate and dont want to down size from that length.

[gofishin]

Have you had a look at this thread...
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=199900
Awesome boat and built with the 3.5t limit in mind. Can't recall if this was achieved with full tanks etc but pretty impressive regardless.

Outwide is indeed a big girl, with lots of good gear, and with twins etc I would not think she would be in the 3.5t class ready-2-go. Mick does come on here so I am sure he will let you know one way or the other.

Another is Moejoes, not actually sure what size and engine setup but Rob will let you know too I would think.

Also another impressive build thread a while back, think it was called OMG, or maybe that was the builder(?). Think there were some big platey weights in that thread too.
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Any_Weather]

G'day Kemel, mate I had a 7.8m Riptide built at the end of last year and once completed I put it over a weighbridge totally dry with nothing other than anchor rope. That is no chain, anchor, sinkers, or anything else at all and totally dry. It weighed 3320kg so that only gives me 180kg of gear which isn't hard to get. I carry 540lt of fuel and 150lt of water of which neither can carry anything when being towed. That in itself can become tough. It is 6mm bottom and 4mm sides running twin 175hp Suzukis and sits on a full alloy trailer.I have a build thread on here somewhere also.
Cheers
Lee

[KEMEL K]

yeah tar Brandon, seen that one. wont have any wear near that sort of fit out so if the moda boat is under 3.5 ill be sweet and looking at a7.8m!!! think I have read on here somewhere re moejoes 8m running twins like outwide????? so keen to know his weight??
KEV

[KEMEL K]

yeah right thanks Lee exactly the sort of info I am chasing. do you pull her with the 200 in the pic? considering doing something very similar to your set up even have same colour 200 my self. may have to sacrifice size to bring weight down a bit.
thanks KEV

[scottar]

Also another impressive build thread a while back, think it was called OMG, or maybe that was the builder(?). Think there were some big platey weights in that thread too.
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"OCD" Brendan. It's the B.I.L's rig. Pretty much right on 3.5 and he had to have a GVM upgrade on his Cruiser. Bloody nice bit of kit but it won't fit in my shed.:'(

[gofishin]

Ahh, yeah that's right Scotty, OCD. I must have been thinking OMG when I saw it :). Nice bit of kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Any_Weather]

Hi Kev, yeh mate I tow it with that cruiser and it does it no dramas at all. I don't tow it very often but as it stays near the water. I was hoping it would have ended up a couple of hundred kilos lighter and after talking to a lot of other owners of similar sized boats, they either did something extraordinary when building to reduce weight or they have just come up with a figure that keeps them happy because mine seems heavy compared with some others?
Short answer but, yes the cruiser ties it easily
Cheers
Lee

[KEMEL K]

"OCD" Brendan. It's the B.I.L's rig. Pretty much right on 3.5 and he had to have a GVM upgrade on his Cruiser. Bloody nice bit of kit but it won't fit in my shed.:'(
Scotty, thanks for that. GVM upgrade sounds great!!how do you go about those never heard of it? only new to forum so not sure who bil is. upgrade to GVM sounds far cheaper than a f- truck/dodge to tow it around when so close to the mark.
tar KEV

[Moejoes]

yeah tar Brandon, seen that one. wont have any wear near that sort of fit out so if the moda boat is under 3.5 ill be sweet and looking at a7.8m!!! think I have read on here somewhere re moejoes 8m running twins like outwide????? so keen to know his weight??
KEV

Hi Kemel, Some useful info to help with your quest.
8 meter hull only when I completed the hot works came in at 1950kgs.
Gal. trailer came in at 900kgs completed. I had it engineered to 4500kgs as wanted it to last but registered it at 3500kgs thinking I'd be under after fitout.
Not to be. Came in at 3600kgs with 100 litres of fuel when I put it over the weigh bridge with everything pulled out of it :-?.
Ended up being 3840kgs by the time I weighed everything back in ( Still no Fuel ) which was now a problem :'(.
So I re registered the trailer to 4500kgs & bought a Chev. Costly but at least I'm legal & have insurance :).
I'll post some pics later.
Cheers Rob

[KEMEL K]

Thanks Rob, great info there couple. Save couple hundred k on alloy trailer and couple hundred running single engine?? may just get me close enough, with no fuel but!!!! might have to chase down this GVM upgrade for the cruiser. May well be the answer?? I better go run current rig over weigh bridge might get a small shock I think!!! ill post pics of it if I can figure out how its done.

[Moejoes]

Don't even bother with the upgrade.
The 200 series cruiser total combined weight is 6850kgs, you cannot get this increased.
So 3350kgs total loaded weight for the cruiser & 3500kgs boat / trailer.
Cruiser by memory is 2700kgs empty so you can only load it up 650kgs ( people / fuel / luggage ).
You will down grade your tow capacity if you upgrade the GVM of the cruiser.
Upgrade cruiser GVM to 3550kgs means your boat / trailer can only be 3300kgs = 6850kgs ( You cannot exceed this combined weight ).
I looked at every option.
Hope this helps.

[gofishin]

Scotty, thanks for that. GVM upgrade sounds great!!how do you go about those never heard of it? only new to forum so not sure who bil is. upgrade to GVM sounds far cheaper than a f- truck/dodge to tow it around when so close to the mark.
tar KEVKev, have a read of this thread, it may have some helpful info ...
So you think you can tow 3.5t http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=202306

A GVM upgrade will not allow you to tow more than 3.5t, it will just allow you to carry more people/load in the cruiser, or unload some weight from the boat into the cruiser.

Toyota don't specify a GCM, so unless you find someone that is qualified and willing to give you an increased 'Tow Rating' or put a GCM number on a compliance plate (that will suit your situation), it will be an f-truck etc.

Start with ARB and Lovells. There is another option Soulfish (Jason) mentioned to me a few years back - can't recall who though. He may chime in.
Cheers
Brendon




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moejoes]

Some pics.
Probably see why I needed the Chev :o


110496110497110498110499

[Moejoes]

Cruiser towed it with ease but unfortunately didn't rate

[gofishin]

... You will down grade your tow capacity if you upgrade the GVM of the cruiser.
Upgrade cruiser GVM to 3550kgs means your boat / trailer can only be 3300kgs = 6850kgs ( You cannot exceed this combined weight ).
I looked at every option.
Hope this helps.Hi Rob, this is not correct, unfortunately you were given dud info.

The only reason this is not correct is because Toyota do not specify a GCM. Any changes to the GVM are therefore independent of the GCM, and thus towing capacity. (This as per ADR rules/legislation, ie Law).

However, if someone is providing a 'Claytons GVM upgrade' that specifies a derated towing capacity (or a GCM that derates the towing capacity) - walk away Kev! This is wasted money.

GVM upgrades for LC200's are very popular down south for the grey nomads with big vans - and they retain full 3.5t towing. Check out the caravan forums.
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moejoes]

[QUOTE=gofishin;1596886]Kev, have a read of this thread, it may have some helpful info ...
So you think you can tow 3.5t http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=202306

A GVM upgrade will not allow you to tow more than 3.5t, it will just allow you to carry more people/load in the cruiser, or unload some weight from the boat into the cruiser.

Toyota don't specify a GCM, so unless you find someone that is qualified and willing to give you an increased 'Tow Rating' or put a GCM number on a compliance plate (that will suit your situation), it will be an f-truck etc.

Start with ARB and Lovells. There is another option Soulfish (Jason) mentioned to me a few years back - can't recall who though. He may chime in.
Cheers
Brendon


Hey Brendon,
Jason put me onto that guy as well.
He wouldn't do any tow upgrades & said it can't be done.
They use to do it years ago but found engineers were signing of 2 wheel drive Hilux utes with 3500kgs tow capacities :o
I looked at every option , spoke to Dept. of Transport numerous times.
Unfortunately those are the rules.

[Moejoes]

One Dept of Transport officer told me I could transfer 350kgs into the car as long as I didn't exceed my GCVM of 6850kgs.
Meaning that my boat / trailer could be 3850kgs total weight and I can have 1 person with fuel in the car.
He said they have a massive manual listing all GCVM's for every vehicle.
He did also say that you needed to check each model of say example a Commodore as a standard model would have different specs to a SS model.
Eg: different brakes / suspension.
You need to call your local dealer to find out your GCVM ( Gross Combined Vehicle Mass ).
I'm now told load transfer is not legal in Qld.
Just be aware there are different tow rules & reg's per state.

[gofishin]

... I looked at every option , spoke to Dept. of Transport numerous times.
Unfortunately those are the rules.That's the problems we have in the 'smart state' unfortunately Rob, the amount of miss-information and completely different information from people at QLD Transport - who should know or be trained better!

I had it myself years ago when setting up my boat, thought they would have got their sh!t sorted by now. So much so that the guy I finally got on to (senior, very experienced and well trained and familiar with laws and ADR's) was very embarrassed and couldn't apologise enough - but that was 7 yrs ago!

I will try and dig up some info - but it sounds like it is going to be a hard task finding someone in QLD to do it.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moejoes]

Agree Brendon,
Good luck with it Kemel.
You could save probably 200 to 300kgs by going a single motor & ali trailer.
Just remember the 400kgs of fuel / water you'll put in it depending on range you're looking for.
Petrol weighs about 0.748kg's per litre, so 500 litres would weigh 374kgs.
Maybe stop at the Maryborough inspection bays & have a chat to them next time they are there as they'll probably the one's you'll be arguing with if pulled up ;D

Rob

[gofishin]

Is this called 'tennis or ping-pong posting' Rob ...:)

One Dept of Transport officer told me I could transfer 350kgs into the car as long as I didn't exceed my GCVM of 6850kgs... There is his/their first two mistakes.
1. All states are now under common laws regarding this, and common terminology based on terms defined under ADR's. It is GCM. Previously some States called it different names, but there is one name defined under Law for all states of Australia, and that is "Gross Combination Mass" (GCM). You would think that the most over-governed developed country in the world would be able to sort this out ? :(

2. By Law only the manufacturer can provide a GCM. For this class of vehicle, a GCM is not required to be provided by Law. What's more, QLD transport, or anyone cannot add the GVM and towing capacity together and write the figure down as the GCM - nor measure anyone's rig against it. They can only measure separately against GVM, and then ATM (GVM would obviously be taken with the trailer coupled, so that the towball mass is included). Obviously to remain legal, you would need to be under in both cases.



... Just be aware there are different tow rules & reg's per state.There used to be, not any more. Different rules created a nightmare for authorities, so we're changed for obvious reasons. Some states may still be behind in updating their own paperwork/backyard, but under Federal laws we are now all the same.

I will get off my high-horse now :).

As you might have guessed, this sort of bureaucratic crap from people working for Government Departments, who's job is to know better, gets me going...
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moejoes]

Gezzzz Hi Ho Silver!!!!! ;D
I had a gut full of it as well as you could never get a straight answer from them.
Most of my findings are from 2 years ago so there could be some new updates as you mentioned.
I recall reading Nomad forums where they are legal in NSW but when entered WA they would be fined for being illegal or vice versa as they entered different states.
Good to see the towing rules are all common now if the case.
All I know is that I'm now legal & don't have to worry about being uninsured and loosing everything in the event of a major accident especially if there were fatalities.
Cheers Rob

[gofishin]

...
All I know is that I'm now legal & don't have to worry about being uninsured and loosing everything in the event of a major accident especially if there were fatalities.
Cheers RobAnd that's the only way to be I reckon.

PS. Bloody nice boat Rob, but I think you could do with a bigger shed :) :)

Cheers
Brendon




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moejoes]

[QUOTE=gofishin;1596904]And that's the only way to be I reckon.

PS. Bloody nice boat Rob, but I think you could do with a bigger shed :) :)

Cheers
Brendon


Haha
Thanks Brendon. I raised the roof to 4mtrs entrance and extended from 7.5 to 10 mtrs deep to get in out 😆

[scottar]

Scotty, thanks for that. GVM upgrade sounds great!!how do you go about those never heard of it? only new to forum so not sure who bil is. upgrade to GVM sounds far cheaper than a f- truck/dodge to tow it around when so close to the mark.
tar KEV

BIL = brother in law, Kemel. Brendan is spot on with his info on the GVM upgrade. The issue with 200's is the abysmal payload - from memory about 700kg - this has to cover people, fuel, any of the trick toys we like to bolt to our rigs like heavy steel bull bars, winches, draw systems, bigger tyres, roof racks, extra batteries, tools and the like as well as the approximate 10% of the tow weight on the towball. You can get a 200 series over factory GVM just by filling all the seats with adults let alone a steel bar, 130 litres of fuel and a 350kg down weight on the back end. The upgrade does not allow the towing of more than 3500kgs - It just let's you take passengers as well as tow the boat.

The GVM upgrade is a certified suspension upgrade. There are two available through either ARB or Lovell's suspension (the ARB one has a lower upgrade than the Lovell's). There used to be the option of a tow weight upgrade as well as reported by at least one caravaner but I believe this has been knocked on the head. There are/were some different limitations on the upgrade due to red tape technicalities in some states due to pre/post registration fitment but best to talk to your upgrader as hopefully (fingers crossed) they should be more up to speed than myself. There is plenty more info on Landcruiser Owners On Line (LCOOL) if you wish to join and have a read.

[ric]

an 8m boat under 3.5t loaded on trailer would ride like a pig. Having length is fine but you need the weight to.

[lee8sec]

Pedders also do GVM kits. http://www.pedders.com.au/kits/gvm-upgrades

Some kits are for NEW vehicles only.

This is all the important parts for the lovells kit. GVM & tow capacity.
http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/40257_815122_RVD_16Oct2008123251.cmd

[Alwayskeen]

Some nice boats here. I just wish this dilemma was mine....

[KEMEL K]

Thanks to all very interesting reading all that info. seems to me that quite a lot of car trailer combos will be illegal in one way or another due to all the confusion around theses very issues. With the blame game shared between differing govts and car manufacturers alike. Taken a keen interest in anything towing trailers in the last couple of days including the huge combos some of these grey nomads are getting around in. Bloody hell what are some of these things weighing in at, huge van tinny on top and canopy over duel cab ute full and I mean full of gear!!!! Going to discuss with builder and do our sums a few times and just build as big and close as we can to the magical 3.5t mark. leaving fuel fill to last servo before ramp, and take my chances like most others it seems. Thanks heaps guys I think,heads spinning that's for sure but very informative that's for sure.
Met Kev (marvin) yestie at tackle shop hoping to get to agnes for the m&g next month for sausage cook off and meet and thank a few personally may run the eye over a few big hard top plateys for ideas while there. Be a couple of them there by the sounds of it, and being only a bit over an hour pretty easy run for me.
KEV

[Oog.]

Hi Kev, my boat is the slightly bigger, (and not as pretty), sister to Mick's Outwide.
I went with a single engine over twin 175's for various reasons, but one of them was the weight saving of about 180kgs on the bum and also the overall boat weight.
The alloy trailer was weighed at finished stage, including the spare bolted on, and came in at 600kg.
So by Rob's weight of his galv trailer, the weight saving can be closer to 500kg with my setup.
When mine was weighed before the fit-out, with only the motor and start batteries fitted and a hundred or so litres of fuel it was about 2900kgs.
I have not weighed it again yet since I have fitted it out but it would have added another 300kg or so.
So by the time the fuel and water tanks are full, add some ice and all the other gear you take fishing, it would be over the 3500kg, so I like others have said, try to tow it fairly empty till almost at the ramp.
I will weigh it next time I'm in town and let you know how it went.
Who are you looking at to build your new boat?, if you want to have a look over mine or go for a run, send me your number.
Ross.

[KEMEL K]

Holy crap, very nice Ross!!! yeah those weights seem about the norm by the looks of it. I see one of those pics is at b/heads ramp by the looks so when you say in town do you mean bundy?? If so yeah would love to run me eye over her. Current rig is a Andrew McDonald-smith design 7.4m cc built by Russ Dick at rmd fab bloody awesome and love it only problem and a great one to have I might add so does the wife and young kids 6,8,11yo even the overnighting out the reef exposed to all the elements. still get out with the boys heaps so hard top seems next step while were all keen. Give us bit more comfort, and will be done Russ again for sure. Ross my no. is 0401 913 948 or my business "Bundy Pies" 41518533 Look forward to having a chat.
KEV.

[KEMEL K]

Bloddy hell this is doing my head in. now after a read and re- read and re........ if I do the up grade on the GVM of the cruiser I understand that will not increase the 3.5t tow of my vehicle knew that not possible going in to this. But mine is the sahara model so was looking for extra GVM so can carry at least SOME crew in tow vehicle. Now am I right this will allow this to happen and still allow a 3.5t trailer
or is my head about to spin completely f#@$ing off!!!
KEV

[Moejoes]

Hi Kev,
Last I checked, you cannot increase your total GCVM ( Gross Combined Vehicle Mass = Car & Trailer / Load ) by upgrading your vehicles GVM.
Ask Pedders or who ever can do the vehicle GVM upgrade and see what they say.
You can also call Toyota for the GCVM for your Sahara.
My 2012 - LC200 GXL GCVM was 6850kgs and I believe the Sahara is worse because of the extras it has.
Let us know how you go as I'm keen to know if it has changed.
Cheers Rob.

[KEMEL K]

Yep good one Rob, thought that may be the case. might have to down grade sahara to gxl to pick up extra weight for people in vehicle. up to couple hundred kgs by the looks of the links attached t this thread.

[scottar]

Unless things have changed, the cruiser does not have a published GCVM. It is only a calculated figure derived by the addition of the GVM and the maximum towing capacity. This "loophole" if you wish to call it that means that with the GVM upgrade does allow the addition of the upgraded GVM and the maximum tow capacity to be added to calculate the new GCVM. If the GCVM was a published figure, then the extra weight in the tow vehicle is deducted from the permissible tow weight.

[Moejoes]

Unless things have changed, the cruiser does not have a published GCVM. It is only a calculated figure derived by the addition of the GVM and the maximum towing capacity. This "loophole" if you wish to call it that means that with the GVM upgrade does allow the addition of the upgraded GVM and the maximum tow capacity to be added to calculate the new GCVM. If the GCVM was a published figure, then the extra weight in the tow vehicle is deducted from the permissible tow weight.

Agree Scottar.
I don't believe Toyota publish it, but it is available when you call them.
The insurance Lawyers will find a loophole to not payout a 20 mil lawsuit if a GCVM exist and you exceed it.
Make some phone calls tomorrow to Pedders & Toyota Kev and let us know your findings.

[KEMEL K]

yep will do. But my money is on getting the run around from both with no definitive answer either way from either. STAY TUNED.

[gofishin]

... The issue with 200's is the abysmal payload - from memory about 700kg - this has to cover people, fuel, any of the trick toys we like to bolt to our rigs like heavy steel bull bars, winches, draw systems, bigger tyres, roof racks, extra batteries, tools and the like as well as the approximate 10% of the tow weight on the towball... Scottty, as Toyota specify a 'Kerb Mass' and not a 'Tare Mass', a full fuel tank (standard Toyota tank) has already been included in the 'Mass', and therefore does not have to be allowed for in any LC200 payload calculations based on GVM.

As per ADR specifications/definitions, "Kerb Mass" = "Unladen Mass" and includes all fluid tanks full to capacity, including the 'standard' Toyota fuel tank.

"Tare Mass" only includes 10 litres of fuel in the tank (as per ADR specs). This is (was?) an unknown catch for a few dual cab owners, as some are/were specified with a 'Tare Mass', others with a 'Kerb Mass'.

Kev, ~26+ months ago I did a ship load of research into this before I bought the LC200. I just checked on the big 'Puter' and did save some references. Thought I had also saved copies of posted Registration/Compliance papers (and info on who did the mods) that I found thru forums, but alas, can't find them.

As you will see following, there was mass confusion on this subject, and it seems still is... Here were links I saved back then. Have not done any further research - probably a lot more info available now. It will be interesting to hear what you are told now from Lovells/ARB. As you will read in the following, it seems even they gave conflicting advice.

The second link Lee posted previously also confirms that the GVM upgrade does not reduce towing capacity for the LC200.


The point on which I haven't been able to get precise confirmation is the weight that can be legally towed after the GVM upgrade bearing in mind that I have been verbally advised by both ARB and Qld Transport that any increase in GVM is deducted from the towing capacity which I find to be in conflict with the following written advice from Qld Transport:

"If the manufacturer has specified GVM but not the GCM rating for a towing vehicle, then it can be loaded up to its GVM (including any vertical load on the coupling joint) and it can tow a trailer loaded equal to or less than the towing vehicle's Rated Towing Capacity which is also specified by the vehicle manufacturer"

To my knowledge Landcruisers have no specified GCM and this has been confirmed by Toyota. If this is correct then the advice from Qld Transport clearly indicates that the vehicles towing capacity is considered quite separately from the GVM and this suggests that the tow vehicle can tow a trailer up to its rated towing capacity irrespective of the upgraded GVM. The trailer can have an ATM up to but not exceeding the tow vehicles rated towing capacity. In the case of a 100/200 series landcruiser that is 3500kg. Based on the advice of Qld Transport it appears that the matter of GCM isn't relevant in any vehicle except a category NC (heavy goods vehicle).The last sentence above is not correct. If a GCM is provided by the manufacturer, it must be adhered to under Law.
See here for a full read...
http://www.kedronownersgroup.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1231

Another one I saved as below. I also recall another, with a 3800/3800 towing upgrade (with posted copy of compliance papers), but did not save details/or I can't find them!

All this info was from a few years ago, including 3800/3850 upgrade as below.


1. Our 200 Series has a Lovells GVM upgrade to 3800kg. This is signed off by an approved Engineer. The appropriate Compliance Plate is affixed to the vehicle. The NSW RTA has endorsed this modification and it is referenced on Registration documents. Our Insurance company has been advise and have accepted the modification. The Engineers Certificate must be carried in the vehicle at all times.

2. Our 200 Series also has an upgraded Towing Capacity to 3850kg. This is signed off by an Approved Engineer. As with the GVM upgrade, an appropriate Compliance Plate has been fitted, the RTA have been notified, the Registration documents duly acknowledge the modifications and the Insurance company has been notified and accepted the modifications. A copy of the Engineers Certificate must be carried in the vehicle at all times...
See here for full read...
http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/81121/towing_with_LC200.aspx

ADR Definitions here...
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/legislation/legislativeinstrumentcompilation1.nsf/0/8E82D18791960FFACA2573690015E710/$file/ADRDefinitionscomp3FINAL.pdf

Cheers
Brendon

[scottar]

Caught another post of yours from 2013 as well Brendan where by calculation you need a gvm upgrade to simply get to the "calculated GCM of 6800 Kg" legally anyway. Even with the Lovells 500Kg GVM upgrade, you only can effectively increase the GCM by 150kg and remain legal if I read it right. (depending on the trailer compliance plate).

[gofishin]

Not sure which post that would be Scotty, however what I assume you are talking about is that the theoretical figure of GCM everyone has mentioned, of 6850kg = 3350 (GVM) + 3500 (max towed trailer mass), is incorrect, in fact not physically possible if we follow the ADR Regs? This is 100% correct. However, sometimes manufacturers specify (dream up!) there own calculation/figure.

This all comes about because the towball download is borne by the vehicle, and thus must be incorporated into the GVM of that vehicle, as it is indeed 'a load'. This of course is also reflected in the ADR definition of the 'GCM', which states something like ...
the GCM is the sum of the GVM of the vehicle towing the trailer, and the axle mass of that trailer... or close enough. Now the axle mass of the trailer is it's GTM, so GCM = GVM + GTM.

I.e. Let's assume we have an 3500kg BMT, (which is also the ATM), with 10% (350kg) on the ball.

The trailer axle mass or GTM therefore = 3500 - 350 = 3150, and...
The GCM is therefore = 3350 + 3150 = 6500kg (if we followed the Law, with 350kg on the ball). Obviously as the towball down mass changes, so does this calc.

So therefore, unless you had a GVM upgrade to start with (or an increased towable limit), you could never physically get to a GCM of 6850kg (well unless you had 0kg on the ball - then God help the driver, passengers and everyone else on the road). Is this what you are talking about?

However.... when a vehicle manufacturer states or calculates their own GCM, that becomes 'the Law' regardless of what the ADR definition states.

Some specify a derated GCM on purpose (i.e. 2013 Ranger/BT50), to legally limit the 'combined loading', others (i.e. 2013 D-Max) specify a GCM that is not physically possible to attain unless a 0% towball download is used. (Note: 2013 is when I last reviewed all the specs, haven't done it since).

Hmmmm, way too many acronyms hey! Must have been dreamt up by a bloody Engineer :)
Cheers
Brendon

Edit: typo in my original GVM value, I just corrected it.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scottar]

So therefore, unless you had a GVM upgrade to start with (or an increased towable limit), you could never physically get to a GCM of 6800kg (well unless you had 0kg on the ball - then God help the driver, passengers and everyone else on the road). Is this what you are talking about?




That's the one. Short of ball weight variations as you stated.

[PB]

Our 650, (7.2m LOA) came it at 4 tonne fully loaded with 300L fuel and loaded with tackle and gear for a days fishing.
110551110550

[mull dog]

Nice rig PB. What height would that be with the radar?


Sent from my lawnmower

[PB]

Nice rig PB. What height would that be with the radar?


Sent from my lawnmower

Cheers Mate,I think its about 3.2-3.3m

[Chris Tucker]

Dan that boat is a bit a-typical weight wise though. Extra beam and hull plates way beyond survey requirements and then the heavy duty steel trailer. Basically an exercise in how heavy we could design and build at 6.5m mono rig. What did the elite 700 weigh on its Ali trailer?

[PB]

Dan that boat is a bit a-typical weight wise though. Extra beam and hull plates way beyond survey requirements and then the heavy duty steel trailer. Basically an exercise in how heavy we could design and build at 6.5m mono rig. What did the elite 700 weigh on its Ali trailer?

It was 2.8 tonne dry, No fuel or gear. so add 350L fuel and probably the same in gear when all said and done. I really think a true 7.5m plate boat should be over the magic 3.5 tonne fully loaded but as you say Chris if you are aware of the weight it needs to be once finished and loaded it is possible.

[Chris Tucker]

From memory this one is approx 3400kg on Ali trailer with full tanks and survey safety gear but nothing else.

http://www.ctmd.com.au/assets/pdf/port/7.5mMonohull.pdf