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Watto79
10-07-2015, 11:30 AM
Hi Ausfisher's,

After a general consensus on whether or not you would purchase a Chinese made boat?

From an Australian distributor with a warranty etc..

To my eye these boats are almost identical to an Australian equivalent in both make and finish wise but at about half the price! :o

Thoughts please?

Camhawk88
10-07-2015, 12:04 PM
Glass or ali?
To the untrained eye they may look the same but the materials may be very different.
Look up the old threads on the Nobel V/ Super V when they changed to a Chinese build.
Not saying dont do it but I would do a lot of research to find out exactly what you are paying for.

Noelm
10-07-2015, 12:14 PM
Some Chinese can be as good as anything built here, it all depends on how the build was specified, to a standard, or a price, makes a huge difference.

Bremic
10-07-2015, 01:39 PM
I agree with what Noel has posted, but still wouldn't do it with a purchase as big as a boat. If there are too many faulty products, it is easy for the proprietors to just shut up shop, disappear and your warranty is worth nothing. Ten years down the track they may have built a decent reputation and may be a better proposition, but I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig. The Nobel scenario is a perfect example.

Not to say a dodgy local manufacturer couldn't buy a welder, start up a business and do the same thing, of course.

Watto79
10-07-2015, 02:20 PM
Thanks for responses, these are glass boats..

The Noble scenario was a little different in that they had a good established Australian product/brand but then took the manufacturing/building to China to make the same margin on an inferior product from what I can make of it..

That would be my only worry, with these being glass boats and as good as they look finished whats underneath?!

Certainly look the part and have been finished well though, if I put them beside the Aussie equivalent without the name tags I doubt anybody could spot the difference!

Chimo
10-07-2015, 05:00 PM
Resale will be low more than likely. If your buying on price then consider what Noelm said above.
You may even get a better outcome buying a second hand Aust glass boat such as the original Seafarer range that appears to rising in value.
You should consider reading the Noble thread on here to get a better idea.

scottar
10-07-2015, 05:31 PM
You would want to have absolute faith in the importer. If they operate without a shopfront even more so. The Chinese can make exceptional quality products where they work to specification - Nordhaven Motor Yachts are a good example but IMO if left to their own devices to turn out a price driven product produce products of questionable value - pretty much as Noel posted. The hard part for the untrained eye can be determining the difference between the two while everything is still nice and shiny. I would be doing a large amount of research before committing any of my hard earned.

hungry6
10-07-2015, 07:45 PM
Normally I wouldnt recommend it, but 2 week ago a fri3nd bought a glass boat branded aldingi, After fitting a 60HP suzuki on the back of her and took her out for a spin, The ride was dry and VERY good is
conservative, fit and finish was as good or better than locally made, it had all the stainless fittings and bilge on already. 5.5m glass for around 14k. Mind you at this stage I didnt know it was a chinese made boat until I research the brand that night. Chinese or not, Im still impress.

I think alot of people automatically think, chinese = crap from recent. It how its specs is important.

Funny enough only a few day ago I priced a 4.3m glass boat from a mob here in caboolture and they wanted 18k bare hull. It was put forward to me that he was doing me a favour because he lives in the next street.

scottar
10-07-2015, 08:06 PM
Funny enough only a few day ago I priced a 4.3m glass boat from a mob here in caboolture and they wanted 18k bare hull. It was put forward to me that he was doing me a favour because he lives in the next street.

Which he quite possibly was. An Aussie made boat is never going to go close in price to one that is made with almost slave labour rates in comparison to Australian wages. Cold hard fact of life. If wages and other costs were the same in China as Australia, their products would cost the same, if not more by the time you got them here. It is expensive to manufacture here - that's why companies are taking their manufacturing overseas in droves.

davo
10-07-2015, 08:20 PM
Ali. No way. I looked at them and the price wasn't that different but the strength was down and the pressings were shallower. Even Parsun outboards are too expensive. You can buy name brands for a very similar cost. Buy Aussie!

Lucky_Phill
11-07-2015, 09:02 AM
IMO only. No. Seriously the engineering may be good, but the materials composition fail.. I refuse to purchase anything Chinese related / built. ( If I can.... TV's, etc I really don't have a choice ).

I have seen ally boats, fishing reels, hooks, painting equipment, shoes and so much more that are utter crap based on the materials weakness / composition. They all looked the goods but when the test came....failed.

as I said, all IMO...


LP

Crocodile
11-07-2015, 09:33 AM
Hello All,

I used to drive a Chinese bus for a living.
I have voluntarily declined to drive it anymore as I considered it to be unsafe.
I would never buy anything complicated that was made in China.

tunaticer
11-07-2015, 10:33 AM
Tell the sales rep you want chemical analysis spec sheets for the alloy used in the boat, you are entitled to them.
That will give you the exact grade of alloy used.
Check the quality of design and workmanship, ignoring the glossy paint and see if it is what you want to take the risk on.

The days of China's world supply has peaked and on the decline, if the AU$ drops into the mid 60's the outsourcing from China will halve.

Nick H
11-07-2015, 10:46 AM
Something's aren't just about the cost of the product. Supporting local and Australian business's is important as once the manufacturing industry is gone there prices will increase to fill the gap in the market. I had a good look over an Atomix boat which is built in China, looked ok to me but I'd prefer to pay the extra 10-15k and buy something that is Australian made.
Nick

The Silver Unicorn
11-07-2015, 03:02 PM
Something's aren't just about the cost of the product. Supporting local and Australian business's is important as once the manufacturing industry is gone there prices will increase to fill the gap in the market. I had a good look over an Atomix boat which is built in China, looked ok to me but I'd prefer to pay the extra 10-15k and buy something that is Australian made.
Nick

Not everybody can afford an extra 15 grand....

Fish Face
11-07-2015, 04:01 PM
As with anything... You get what you pay for...FF

Nick H
11-07-2015, 09:08 PM
Not everybody can afford an extra 15 grand....

It might be that on the initial purchase price, but when your boat falls apart after a few years good luck getting the problems sorted. What I should have said is the money saved on the purchase price might cost you down the track on quality and resale.

scottar
11-07-2015, 09:31 PM
Not everybody can afford an extra 15 grand....

And that's fine. They can if they so wish purchase a cheaper Chinese product. It is not the fact that people buy these cheaper, possibly inferior quality imported products that annoys me, it's the inference that because the Australian product is more expensive that the manufacturer is ripping people off. When it comes down to it, if I was to use Chinese labour at Chinese standard wages, I could get any job done cheaper - even those done by the people that can't afford the extra 15 grand - are they ripping me off?????

chocolatemoose
11-07-2015, 09:32 PM
...........hmm its a funny one
because china will build what ever you want. if you want it good it will be good. "though its sometimes lost in translation" and well yeah some big boats have been built in asia for a long long time and are great boats. they can build boats.

i think australia should see all this shift in production and "now slowed down" US import as a chance to really step up and building good stuff. small nations can make good stuff to export. look at sweden.

Moose

scottar
11-07-2015, 09:50 PM
We build good gear now but it's expensive by comparison to the rest of the world. It will take a big shift in pay and conditions before we become a manufacturing powerhouse Moose - something that will be a very bitter pill to swallow given we as a nation have had it pretty good for a while now. Not to mention a government that has a clue. Then there is the other issue - who do we sell it to, who can afford to buy it ? Our own domestic market is miniscule and a good percentage of the rest of the world can either do it cheaper themselves, protects their own manufacturers or can't afford it. We can't expect the manufacturing sector to work for peanuts while the rest of us expect more and more every week but if everyone takes massive cuts then no one can afford the newly manufactured gear anyway.

tunaticer
11-07-2015, 09:54 PM
There are a few crap aussie boat builders around too be sure you get what you want and are happy with the workmanship.

chocolatemoose
11-07-2015, 09:58 PM
see i think we missed the boat a little while ago. the world loves a good niche "german cars for example" australia i think was in a position at the end of the 2000s to be the words "toughest" manufacturing. building the hard stuff. it will sound weird but as a marketing sence we would of nailed it. the US runs a similar theme. american made = iron clad. steel. solid. when we all know a lot of it is a bit on the surface only. a call was made to build the new landcruiser "well new at the time" in australia in melbourne in the 90s. australia was a test bed country. we had the image to sell. but we ... didnt. for all kinds of reasons

to sell a product abroad it dosnt have to be something the other country can just build better. it just needs to be wanted. look at US pick ups. people WANT them. and will paid a huge premium in australia . now not to put us down as a collective. but we are a pretty thick and lazy bunch in australia. if a bunch of scandianavians in cold climates can export. and sell amazing product brands. then why cant we .........we are close to asia ... which should be an advantage compared to europe.

just a thought.. australians need to learn to be clever again. quality and smart. we just arnt there anymore .

case in point. i get asked OFTEN about the whole chinese winch vs australian made winch. i saw the work spaces and parts going into one perticular australian brand. and i saw the chinese factory building the other winches. it was anteseptic. it was like a hospital ER it was that well run and such. "even with clones assembling parts".

to stand around in high vis singlets piss farting around half the day complaining that something is shit ........when volvo comes from a country that hardly gets sun. lol

Alan M
11-07-2015, 10:00 PM
Resale is really important as most people dont keep boats for life - the higher the resale the lower your cost of boating the years you had your boat.

If the boat is cheaper you can buy a bigger boat but if that boat is less safe or reliable what good is it being bigger unless you fish on a lake....

billfisher
12-07-2015, 07:19 AM
If the purchase cost is substantially lower then it also follows that the re sale will be lower too. As to quality and durability there have been many poorly built Australian boats over the years and we still don't have uniform boatbuilding standards. Some big companies like Telwater are using China to manufacture boats so you should be right on warranty )offering 10 years.
I have an open mind on Chinese boats.

Alan M
12-07-2015, 09:43 PM
Fair call billfisher - The only 2 boats I see around here that are chinese made are trailcraft and webster. they both seem pretty expensive to me new anyways

Watto79
13-07-2015, 12:15 PM
Thanks All, appreciate all the opinions and exactly what I was hoping to achieve from this thread..

Noelm
13-07-2015, 01:16 PM
not too sure which Telwater boats are made in China......

boatie_72
13-07-2015, 03:06 PM
not too sure which Telwater boats are made in China......

Savage Fiberglass

Noelm
13-07-2015, 03:11 PM
yeah, fair enough, BUT, savage fibreglass is marketed in a completely different way to other Telwater products, even a Savage (aluminium) dealer does not sell the Savage fibreglass range, but you are correct, that particular model is Chinese.

airlock
13-07-2015, 06:53 PM
Its a hard one, in some respects the Chinese are creating equal products, but in automotive terms, cars and bikes there products are noticeable inferior.
Resale will be very low and will probably negate the savings you make buying the boat so unless its a long termer i wouldn't even consider it, and if you do plan on a long term boat i would really be taking and interest in the build quality to make sure its going to stand up the the years of abuse.
Just be aware quality control is not a big part of Chinese manufacturing, while the warrantee is a good i would want to make sure the company is well established enough to be relied on in the future.

Personal i'd be looking at a slightly older used model thats a bit more of a known quantity.

However it is also worth considering the fact that many boat manufacturers are committing daylight robbery with their pricing and very lazy business models, the general practice of charging what the market will bear while reducing foreign competition does need to be sorted out but i wouldn't want to be the first brave sole to venture into the blue in an unknown boat.

billfisher
13-07-2015, 07:47 PM
Personal i'd be looking at a slightly older used model thats a bit more of a known quantity.

That's a bit ironic with all the poorly built Australian boats we have had to put up with.

PS: I would consider a Chinese outboard as well, especially if I was re powering an old boat and didn't want to over capitalise it.

airlock
13-07-2015, 08:07 PM
That's a bit ironic with all the poorly built Australian boats we have had to put up with.

PS: I would consider a Chinese outboard as well, especially if I was re powering an old boat and didn't want to over capitalise it.

O theres no shortage of local made crap, but a hull thats been about for a few years has a lot of user reviews. Newer stuff often has only been reviewed by the media, which is in most cases worthless marketing.

DaveR
14-07-2015, 12:30 AM
I’ll chime in here seeing as I own a 2015 Savage 585C so I can give some first hand impressions. Hopefully this post might help anybody looking at the new Savage fibreglass models.

Telwater has the hulls built in China and finishes the boats in their QLD factory. They’re a Kiwi-designed hull which used to be manufactured in NZ (since 2007ish I think), so they’re not an untested hull. It was only recently that they shipped the moulds to China and they’re now built in what they claim is a state of the art, climate controlled facility in China with Kiwi QC staff. The hulls are sold globally under license to a couple of different brands. Savage/Telwater offer them with a 10 year warranty which (I believe) is tied with Haines Signature as the best in the industry.

Prior to purchase, every report I read about the hulls praised the quality of finish and construction (full fibreglass construction, no wooden stringers etc). I went and inspected one late last year and was pretty impressed. I was comparing it to my 4 year old Sea Ray which I’d owned since new. Obviously with Sea Rays being renowned as high quality boats, I wasn’t expecting the Savage to blow my socks off but I did walk away impressed enough to eventually order one.

Having had the boat for 5 months now, the irony is that the only issues I’ve had with it have come from the Australian side of the build. Telwater mounted the engine too low and the trailer (identical tandem axle model you get with a 6m Quintrex/Stacer) had a bunch of roller brackets come loose.

The boat itself is very impressive for its price. The criticisms I found with the launch models (2012-13) were that the side pockets were difficult to access and the fuel tank was too small. They launched a series two (esque) update of the boat in 2014 with new interior mouldings, a tweaked helm design, new flip up bolster style seats, new windscreen and they doubled the size of the fuel tank to 140L. In 2015 (which is when mine was built) they changed to a new style of gunwale rubber as well. So despite being built overseas, it seems Telwater still has plenty of flexibility in tweaking the product.

As far as my personal impressions, I’ve found it to be a really great rig- which is a relief because I was biting my nails hoping I hadn’t made a mistake. I narrowed it down to this boat or a smaller Haines Signature for roughly the same price. I love the Signatures but rolled the dice with this boat and I guess I’m glad I did. There’s also some nice details that you don’t find in more expensive boats of a similar size, like a fully lined cabin and side pockets, high quality soft touch interior surfaces, flip up bolster seats, pop-up cleats etc. Also something logical that I found missing in a number of competitors- driver and passenger footrests. It might seem insignificant, but try driving a cabin boat (ie high seats) without somewhere to support your feet- you'll go crazy (at least I have in the past). One thing I do miss from the Sea Ray is the gas-assist struts for the under-floor storage. I’ve had the boat out in some very sloppy conditions and the reviews are accurate- it’s a very soft riding hull and extremely dry. Can’t praise it enough for dryness. It’s not set up to be a fishing rig alone and that kind of appealed to me, because I do quite a bit of cruising too, not just fishing. I think the Signature would have been better suited to hardcore fishing. You won't find a livewell on this boat, nor side-pocket rod holders.

TrailerBoat had a 585C in the final of their 2015 AGB (http://www.tradeboats.com.au/trailerboat-news/best-boats/1412/savage-585c-review-australias-greatest-boats-2015/) challenge and they also noted how good the ride is, plus how well finished the hull is. Most reviews seem almost like ads to me but they had quite a few judges at AGB and their findings were spot on. I'm not sure about other Chinese-built hulls and in all honesty I’d be cautious. In the case of the new Savage range I think Telwater have proven that it can be done properly. Would I trust a smaller company bringing in boats from China? Probably not. So a large Australian company like Telwater throwing their weight behind these boats was a big factor in the purchase decision.

A few pics of the boat-

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae102/DR101/DSC_0204_zpsim5awrxb.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/DR101/media/DSC_0204_zpsim5awrxb.jpg.html)

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae102/DR101/DSC_0613_zpsf3d33loz.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/DR101/media/DSC_0613_zpsf3d33loz.jpg.html)

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae102/DR101/DSC_0685_zpssjkjgdhi.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/DR101/media/DSC_0685_zpssjkjgdhi.jpg.html)

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae102/DR101/DSC_0172_zps3ingqc0u.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/DR101/media/DSC_0172_zps3ingqc0u.jpg.html)

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae102/DR101/DSC_0521_zpspetikpie.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/DR101/media/DSC_0521_zpspetikpie.jpg.html)

Watto79
15-07-2015, 12:28 PM
Nice looking rig!

Sleepydragon
15-07-2015, 02:05 PM
Hi Guys,

I have seen few Chinese build boats. An good example is the Smartliner and Morning Star brands . Smartliner makes ali and glass. Morning makes a good ali hull. They are very affordable to me for the price. I can tell the finish is far better some OZ make boats here. It is a wake up call for OZ boat makers.

Cheers