View Full Version : Fuel Sensor
jmwarner
07-07-2015, 11:49 AM
So i'm looking to do some bigger trips and want to get a better idea of my fuel usage while I'm out. Does anyone know much about fuel sensors with a paddle wheel (older motor)? From what I can find Lowrance is the only one as navman and northstar are discontinued. I don't have a Lowrance sounder so it will be by its self if they work without a bigger unit, has anyone got one and anyone know what they cost for the sensor and gauge?
The Black Unicorn
07-07-2015, 01:58 PM
Not 100% on this but don't lowrance do a fuel flow meter that goes inline on your fuel line? Lmf200?? Don't know if you nmea to make it work????
jmwarner
07-07-2015, 02:21 PM
That's what I was hoping for, little paddle wheel goes in your fuel line but I'm hoping I don't need a heap of other stuff with it considering the sensor alone is a few hundred.
Moonlighter
07-07-2015, 09:02 PM
Lowrance EP65r, and Garmin also makes a fuel flow device as well. Both are paddle wheel type that fits into fuel line.
Both are NMEA 2000 (N2K for short) devices - which means they will ONLY work when connected to a N2K network. So you need a N2K starter kit as well, about $70.
You then need a suitable GPS or sounder to connect to the network that can display the fuel info. Not all such devices can do this, so best check what you have first to make sure it is capable. Check owners manual.
The Black Unicorn
08-07-2015, 06:37 AM
Lowrance EP65r, and Garmin also makes a fuel flow device as well. Both are paddle wheel type that fits into fuel line.
Both are NMEA 2000 (N2K for short) devices - which means they will ONLY work when connected to a N2K network. So you need a N2K starter kit as well, about $70.
You then need a suitable GPS or sounder to connect to the network that can display the fuel info. Not all such devices can do this, so best check what you have first to make sure it is capable. Check owners manual.
isnt the Lmf200 a gauge that shows the stuff without running n2k?
scottar
08-07-2015, 06:45 AM
The LMF-200 is a NMEA-2000 gauge. You would need the gauge, the sensor and a starter kit if that is the way you wish to go. It won't calculate economy without a speed input from either a GPS or water speed sensor but it will give litres per hour. You may be better off looking at something like a HDS5 for a display though as there have been some good deals due to new models.
Moonlighter
08-07-2015, 08:51 AM
Yes, the LMF200 will ONLY work when attached to a N2K network.
Many GPS/ sounders are N2K capable, you just have to check if your model can display fuel data from a N2K network.
If if yours is, then the simplest solution is:
1. Buy a N2K starter kit
2. Buy a EP65r or a GFS10 (Garmin)
3. Install the network on your boat - takes 20 minutes, easy!
4. instal the fuel sensor in the fuel line, between the filter and the engine and connect it to the network, as per it's instruction manual
5. Connect your sounder to the network with a simple N2K cable, you will have a spare one form the kit to do this. Go into the network menu and set up your boat fuel tank size.
Done. The fuel data will now display on your sounder/GPS screen. If it's connected to a GPS you will be able to get:
- fuel flow rate in l/hr
- fuel economy in km/l
- fuel used
- fuel remaining
You surely must have a GPS or Sounder/GPS combo on your boat? What make and model?
jmwarner
08-07-2015, 09:33 AM
I've got a humminbird 698 but i'm not fussed on having economy, l/hr, flow rate ect. I can do those on the fly just want to make sure I have a accurate count of what has left the tank. On the other hand might give me a half decent excuse to get a new sounder...
Jags73
08-07-2015, 09:42 AM
There's a cheap stand alone one on this site for $34.54, wouldn't use it on a diesel or efi bypass fuel system.
http://www.futurlec.com.au/Flow_Sensor.jsp
Had a Northstar a few years ago, took a while to warm up to work properly.
The Lowrance one is working OK
Moonlighter
08-07-2015, 01:33 PM
I've got a humminbird 698 but i'm not fussed on having economy, l/hr, flow rate ect. I can do those on the fly just want to make sure I have a accurate count of what has left the tank. On the other hand might give me a half decent excuse to get a new sounder...
Pity it doesn't appear that your 'bird has N2K capability.
So yes, a good excuse for a new one! Just don't be fooled when you look at them - some claim to have "advanced N2K capability" but in fact are very limited. So be sure to check that they can in fact display engine and fuel related data from a NMEA2000 network. Best to see one in demo mode and get them to show you this on the screen!
FNQCairns
08-07-2015, 05:55 PM
I got the LMF 200 and it works without NMEA (although I do have this on my sounders/gps's)...you only get the paddle wheel readout but easy enough for one to do the simple consideration of usage V speed in any realtime. I had the Navman but it proved unreliable for me very quickly as it stopped reading real early and was grey import so no warrenty of value. The LMF I bought next (another grey) for whatever reason has keep working for years now...I trust it.
For instance...standard Yamaha prop 15p....direct from the dealers shelf on my 6m tinny 90hp yam 2 stroke......22L/H at 43km/h..., after getting the grinder and sandpaper out to redesign it....20L/H at same speed, trip and weight, also let a competent WOT to be then achievable which lets my engine last near forever in comparison to those lower in WOT...my trips are most often 110+km overall.
worth their weight in gold these fuel meters imo....nmea not strictly necessary.
Moonlighter
08-07-2015, 07:07 PM
Quote from the Lowrance LMF200 owners manual/instructions:
"This gauge will ONLY work with a NMEA2000 network. It MUST be connected to a NMEA2000 network or it WILL NOT function."
FNQCairns
08-07-2015, 08:04 PM
Quote from the Lowrance LMF200 owners manual/instructions:
"This gauge will ONLY work with a NMEA2000 network. It MUST be connected to a NMEA2000 network or it WILL NOT function."
How come??
my engine has zero NMEA capability...why has it worked for years already as a simple paddle wheel fuel usage meter (standard NMEA cabled/linked, obviously from paddle wheel as that is the cabling for all data transmission).
Did they change the specs this last 6 years...i hope not!..suspect everyday technical reading of criteria...ie NMEA cable of coarse needed because that is the standard data cabling from paddle to meter but no other special NMEA device/product necessary other than the contained in retail packaging paddle wheel for it to work as a fuel meter and tank usage meter...as I do.
scottar
08-07-2015, 08:21 PM
How come??
my engine has zero NMEA capability...why has it worked for years already as a simple paddle wheel fuel usage meter (standard NMEA cabled/linked, obviously from paddle wheel as that is the cabling for all data transmission).
Did they change the specs this last 6 years...i hope not!..suspect everyday technical reading of criteria...ie NMEA cable of coarse needed because that is the standard data cabling from paddle to meter but no other special NMEA device/product necessary other than the contained in retail packaging paddle wheel for it to work as a fuel meter and tank usage meter...as I do.
Because the in line fuel flow sensor you are using is putting out the NMEA2000 data. NMEA2000 encompasses a lot more than just engines. There are all sorts of sensors that output data in NMEA2000 format
FNQCairns
08-07-2015, 08:39 PM
Because the in line fuel flow sensor you are using is putting out the NMEA2000 data. NMEA2000 encompasses a lot more than just engines. There are all sorts of sensors that output data in NMEA2000 format
Not who you replied to so sorry if out of sync,
True I could buy the 200 and fit it in line with any non return engine ever made and see the real-time use-age, ie my 19 year old patrol 4.2 diesel 4wd or my Kabota 5hp lawn mower even..chainsaw too, whipper snipper also. all it needs in any non-pre-forced/returned fossil fuel engine (if you get what I mean) to read real-time fuel usage,,,, as is was the op question being a non return non NMEA engine is entirely contained in the original retail packaging but will never get the added info as my current boat cannot...do you disagree? Interested to know why if applicable, probably is not.
Moonlighter
08-07-2015, 09:13 PM
FNQ
What you have is the Lowrance EP65r fuel flow sensor - that is the paddle wheel gizmo fitted in the fuel line. You may be mistakenly referring to this as the LMF.
The EP65r sensor is connected to your LMF200 gauge on the dash via a simple NMEA2000 network. The "network" is simply the T pieces and the cable that connects between them, and a power supply.
That is the only way it can be.
This setup can work with pretty well all engines, except those with fuel returns, as you noted.
ngc1955
02-08-2015, 02:14 PM
Does the EP65r work with two tanks?????
scottar
02-08-2015, 08:02 PM
Does the EP65r work with two tanks?????
If you only have one motor it will provided it is installed in the right spot. It will only show a total used or fuel remaining for the total onboard though, not the contents of each tank separately. If you have two motors you would require two sensors unless both motors were fed off a common fuel line and the software would have to allow for programming of the probes (instance changes) and the addition of figures to show total burned.
ngc1955
19-08-2015, 08:30 PM
Thanks for the info, I was mainly concerned about the quantity of fuel in my tanks (only one motor). I have information on my HDS8's from the Suzuki interface but there is an accuracy problem, it can be 10-15 litres out. I think, the only way to be more accurate is to install sender units in the tank & then link to the HDS's... What are your thoughts
scottar
19-08-2015, 08:39 PM
I think you need to calibrate your Suzuki probe. Instructions should be in your manual or in the paperwork for the probe.
Moonlighter
19-08-2015, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the info, I was mainly concerned about the quantity of fuel in my tanks (only one motor). I have information on my HDS8's from the Suzuki interface but there is an accuracy problem, it can be 10-15 litres out. I think, the only way to be more accurate is to install sender units in the tank & then link to the HDS's... What are your thoughts
No, don't do that.
Sender units in the tanks are pretty useless as the fuel sloshes around so much.
The correct way to address that inaccuracy is to calibrate the interface when you refuel. It's quite simple to do.
This process will adjust the calculations done by the HDS and will greatly improve the accuracy of your fuel used and fuel remaining results. You should get it to be consistently within 1-2% of actual. Mine is always within that range, as are others I've set up for people. I last filled up and used 62.5 litres and pumped in 62.4 litres. Bloody amazing how good it is, consistently too.
Here is how to do it on your HDS.
1. After burning at least half your petrol or 60 litres, refill the tanks at your preferred garage. Take a note of the exact quantity it takes to fill up to full.
2. On the HDS, press menu/menu/fuel and select refill. Highlight the set to full button and execute.
3. The HDS will then give you the option to calibrate. Select that option. It will then pop up a screen where you can input the exact amount of fuel it took to fill the tank. Do that, and then finish the process.
4. It will come up with a confirm screen which shows a calibration factor, and confirm that.
Done!
You will probably have to do this process 2 or maybe 3 times at consecutive fill some to get it really accurate, then you'll be right. It will stay right from then on.
One thing to remember is that the greatest differences once I've calibrated are going to mostly be due to the angle of the boat at the bowser.
So especially when you are calibrating, try to use the same bowser at the same petrol station so your boat is sitting at the same angle which means it will fill to the same "fullness".
ozscott
28-08-2015, 08:55 PM
The Navman is brilliant. Little laser and transducer turbine. I have the stand alone head unit gauge. Bloody accurate but only good for carby motors....not made anymore.
Cheers
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