PDA

View Full Version : How to drive when there is a bit of chop.



creat
25-06-2015, 08:59 AM
I have a 525 alloy bowrider stacer with 115 horses
I was out at wello pt yesterday, and their was some small chop maybe 1 foot?
was kayakers out there so it wasn't too bad I guess.
anyway as soon as I get my boat on the plane about 3000 rpm
it bangs really hard and smashes the waves sending spray over the bow.
so I throttle down coming off the plane this stops the hard banging but it seems like a bad speed
cause I can feel the boat lugging, with the ass deep nose high and pushing alot of water.
do I
a: get it on the plane at slowest planning speed and man up
b: Punch the throttle and maybe skate over it like the corrugations in a dirt road
c: slow right down to trolling speed
d: keep it just of the plane like I was doing.

I can handle a bit of discomfort my main concern is for the structural integrity of the boat. I don't want to find every weld cracked and the motor hanging by a thread when I get back home.

Fed
25-06-2015, 09:41 AM
Gotta be a gee-up.:o

PROS
25-06-2015, 10:01 AM
Nowhere near expert, below are my trial/error although my boat is fiberglass,

I found more weight is better for the ride. Used to try lighting up the boat all the time.
Big difference between 2 people in the boat compared to 3 or 4 even better.
Balance the boat also. I have 60lt+ live tank and can be uses as extra weight when needed
More weight hardly changed the fuel consumption for me but boat was cutting through the waves very smoothly.
Felt like rather than waves lifting the boat up, boat was pushing down on waves instead

Try trimming the engine in a bit more if you facing the sea head on, this will make the bow work better. Trimming out will cause banging more.

Following sea, trim out a bit.

If I cant figure a better ride with above, I would say screw this and speed up or change direction a bit.

Max The Turk

Crunchy
25-06-2015, 10:13 AM
I don't know what causes but my first boat was a 4.8M alloy pressed boat and it used to bang in the chop too.

Coontakinta
25-06-2015, 12:15 PM
How many on bboard and how many were forward of the helm?

scuttlebutt
25-06-2015, 01:54 PM
I used to have a 525 Stacer and handling chop wasn't it's strong suit. Unfortunately we get a lot of chop up here. You're fears of cracking welds is legitimate. I cracked my share and even tore the side out of the underfloor fuel tank at one point. To try and cope with it I used to trim the motor down as far as it would go and drop the speed to about 18km/hr (about 10 knots). I found this acceptable, but to make a real difference you'll need a bigger, heavier boat with a deeper v.

Camhawk88
25-06-2015, 02:27 PM
Yep, either keep it in sheltered waters or get another boat more suitable to the application. But if it is only 1 foot of chop then you should be able to skip over that at 30 knots no problems at all.

Gon Fishun
25-06-2015, 02:27 PM
U need a Haines. 8-)

creat
25-06-2015, 02:34 PM
How many on bboard and how many were forward of the helm?

2 POB, in each seat, no one forward, was cold, windy and got wet at the ramp so it would be a bit of a ask to go up front.

creat
25-06-2015, 02:49 PM
I used to have a 525 Stacer and handling chop wasn't it's strong suit. Unfortunately we get a lot of chop up here. You're fears of cracking welds is legitimate. I cracked my share and even tore the side out of the underfloor fuel tank at one point. To try and cope with it I used to trim the motor down as far as it would go and drop the speed to about 18km/hr (about 10 knots). I found this acceptable, but to make a real difference you'll need a bigger, heavier boat with a deeper v.

were you on the plane at that speed?

Scalem
25-06-2015, 03:10 PM
I had a 4.3 mustang with 70hp Jonno carby 2s which hated the slower speeds, it was either 4k or more revs or struggle to find a comfortable planing speed and stay on that speed. Annoying!
My service agent pointed out what nobody has yet, at slower speeds when you have a big rooster tail splashing around the back, you are actually creating a lot of mist and spray which is not ideal for the engine in a salt environment. My engine was showing higher than usual rust under the cowl which is why he asked how and where I was using the boat ( Morton bay) and it was explained that the smallest droplets may work their way into parts of the engine where you will shorten the life of your outboard if this happens frequently. You need to be well away from the boil created behind the boat at slow planing speed was the advice given to me. Long term fix .... I bought a bigger boat with a 4s

Scalem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

scuttlebutt
25-06-2015, 03:31 PM
were you on the plane at that speed?

It was a while back but I don't think so. Was just the most "comfortable" way to do it. Find some lures that will work at that speed so at least you can troll on the way out/in.

Chimo
25-06-2015, 07:03 PM
Your boat will probably never be suitable for those conditions.

I used to fish with a mate who had a 525 Stacer and the only way I could cope was to go as far back in the boat as possible. A bean bag would have been good to sit on but we didn't have one so had to stand with legs bent to absorb the shocks.

However my mate had to be forward to drive and he has had several knee replacement surgerys. We tried going slow or faster and slower was easier on the body and the boat.

In hind sight it would have been cheaper for him to have got a better deep vee boat that rode better and he could have avoided a few operations and a fair bit of pain.

Some boats are just not designed for a lot of conditions.

Cheers
Chimo

Gr0wler
25-06-2015, 08:08 PM
Zig zag so you are not dead onto a head sea and trim correctly or sell it and buy a cat !

BAR UP
25-06-2015, 08:20 PM
WOT and trim the bow.

frosti
25-06-2015, 08:26 PM
in my kevlacat i just go faster ,lean back in the seat , sip on my can and enjoy the ride

Moejoes
25-06-2015, 08:26 PM
All the above or try throwing a hessian sandbag up against the bow.
Should at least absorb some of the banging.

scottar
25-06-2015, 08:47 PM
On my last tinnie, a 4.5 metre savage centre console that spent a large amount of it's time outside fishing, the only way to rectify the issue was to reduce the vessels speed at which it would still hold the plane. In 20 years of ownership it suffered no structural weld damage. I did this with a Stingray foil bolted to the anti ventilation plate on the outboard but there are other methods - trim tabs, weight distribution, 4 blade or large blade area props that provide stern lift. Even with my current 6 metre glass rig, the ride in rough conditions still benefits from the same. I have both trim tabs, a foil and a 4 blade on it. As it gets rougher, the boat speed is reduced and the tabs are lowered and the engine trimmed in to force the bow down to make it do it's job - cut the chop. The ride will get wetter with the bow down but it will be softer.

lethal
26-06-2015, 08:45 AM
With the "ass deep and nose high" tells me your weight distribution is all wrong. You need to get some weight up the front to level the boat out. Also agree with trimming in, pushing your nose down. Also changing angles may help. A boat that size needs to be driven not just pointed in the one direction and holding the line.

Fed
26-06-2015, 09:24 AM
Surf's Up!
Monster swell: 40 to 50 foot waves set to hit Margaret River and WA coasthttp://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/monster-swell-40-to-50-foot-waves-set-to-hit-margaret-river-and-wa-coast-20150625-ghxrwq.html

Webcam
http://www.coastalwatch.com/surf-cams-surf-reports/wa/margaret-river

Are you sure it's not a lot of loose crap banging around in the boat making you think it's banging too hard?
Been a long time since I was in a tinny (4.9M) but I can't remember ever having a problem with 1 foot of chop. When you first posted I honestly thought it was a joke.

JulianDeMarchi
26-06-2015, 09:30 AM
My stacer 474 had the same dramas. Lots of banging. Chop had to be way more then 1 foot though for this to occur. I just slowed down during these periods. Offshore was a nightmare, on average days you'll only be doing 8 - 10knts. In the end I came to the sad relization I had outgrown my boat, and purchased one which is suited to Brisbane's conditions, a deep V hull and a heavier boat.

SummerTrance
26-06-2015, 09:34 AM
I had a stacer 475 easyrider and it banged like hell. I just used to smash it hard through the chop. Had to be standing to absorb impact with your knees. I never pulled up the floor to check for cracked welds, but im sure it happened. The boat was 3 years old when I got it and didn't take on any water. After a few years of smashing it across the bay I'd get a decent amount of water out the bungs after a trip.

I don't necessarily agree that you 'need' a 'bigger boat' to get a smoother ride. My current boat is only a 4.5 but is of different construction and rides ten times smoother than the stacer 475.

creat
26-06-2015, 04:36 PM
Thanks for all the tips and advice, I think I was trimming it out probably making the ride a lot worse than it should of been. Will remember to keep it trimmed in if I'm in similar conditions again.

TheRealPoMo
26-06-2015, 04:52 PM
Thanks for asking the question.
Better than talking about football.
Maybe others learned something too.
Not me obviously. ..I'm awesome. ...

stang69
26-06-2015, 06:39 PM
I think the best way to trim an aluminium boat in the chop is to sell it and buy a fibreglass boat.

The Silver Unicorn
26-06-2015, 06:59 PM
Thanks for asking the question.
Better than talking about football.
Maybe others learned something too.
Not me obviously. ..I'm awesome. ...

You dont like talking about the blues kicking qld's ass in origin?

TheRealPoMo
26-06-2015, 07:46 PM
Nah....don't give a shite about watching blokes in shorts play grabass with other nlokes in shorts.
Each to his own.

Chong
26-06-2015, 08:00 PM
Got a 4.2m seajay, pods mod on rear, 60 4 stroke yamie, came back in yesterday with a 10 -15 knt southerly against tide, was some chop bit over foot, 26 knts all the way, trim in, hold on and wait for calm water before having another beer ;) ... its a tinnie :)
Cheers
Chong

FNQCairns
26-06-2015, 09:34 PM
yeah play with the trim/tilt and throttle until you find the sweetest spot for what presents, it's not rocket science this boating caper.

I now own a pressed tinny also and it is an absolute cork compared to the fibreglass traditional hulls i have owned in the past. ....I dont like it but will never sell it to buy another, pressed tinnys are enough to drop every filling ever fitted to ones teeth since childhood but hey they are cheap all around roustabouts.....so in the end effectively the most worthy of boat all round fishing/fun transport for the most people out there...that,s why I now own one and until the grave or unless I win a big lotto draw.

Just enjoy and take it slow when necessary/best.

good luck

lovejones
26-06-2015, 11:14 PM
it may be worth having a read of this article

http://www.clubmarine.com.au/internet/clubmarine.nsf/docs/MG19-2+Technical

TheRealAndy
26-06-2015, 11:52 PM
WOT and trim the bow.

Maybe not WOT, but trim is the key. Bow down pushes more water, but makes for a better ride in rough shit. Bow up = fast but rough. Play with trim, works a treat.

TheRealAndy
26-06-2015, 11:58 PM
in my kevlacat i just go faster ,lean back in the seat , sip on my can and enjoy the ride


Hmm, how to respondto arrogance.. Having done rescue work in kevla's and mono's, you can have you kevla anyday. Worst boat in the world unless you are in flat water. Just aweful. Kevla's are too narrow for a cat, double the beam and you might be looking at a decent boat... I say this having spend time in seas when you would stay at home. They are farking dangerous pieces of shite.

I own 3 cats, with sails though, so I am not anti-cat. And I have a mate with a home made power cat, which is probably one of the best power boats I have ever been on. Want a decent power cat, look at a grainger designed one.

Jeremy
27-06-2015, 07:05 AM
Hmm, how to respondto arrogance.. Having done rescue work in kevla's and mono's, you can have you kevla anyday. Worst boat in the world unless you are in flat water. Just aweful. Kevla's are too narrow for a cat, double the beam and you might be looking at a decent boat... I say this having spend time in seas when you would stay at home. They are farking dangerous pieces of shite.

I own 3 cats, with sails though, so I am not anti-cat. And I have a mate with a home made power cat, which is probably one of the best power boats I have ever been on. Want a decent power cat, look at a grainger designed one.

I guess you mean respond with arrogance - pot calling the kettle black there

koastal
27-06-2015, 05:31 PM
Hmm, how to respondto arrogance.. Having done rescue work in kevla's and mono's, you can have you kevla anyday. Worst boat in the world unless you are in flat water. Just aweful. Kevla's are too narrow for a cat, double the beam and you might be looking at a decent boat... I say this having spend time in seas when you would stay at home. They are farking dangerous pieces of shite.

I own 3 cats, with sails though, so I am not anti-cat. And I have a mate with a home made power cat, which is probably one of the best power boats I have ever been on. Want a decent power cat, look at a grainger designed one.

Grainger power cats - never heard of them, must have been a commercial flop.

Who designed your mates cat ?

Anyway, back to the topic, as already said by many trim the nose down.

Buying a longer glass boat wont hurt either

Smithy
27-06-2015, 07:54 PM
Foil first. Trim tabs not worth it on a tinny. LZ foils are cheapest and no vices. Maybe get more weight forward. How is the fuel tank setup? Keep yourself on the plane as slow as possible, maybe 9-10knots for a tinny with a foil. I used to get down to 9-10-11knots in my Stabi with a foil and tabs and just sit there and take them on as slow a possible. For dryness you will have to tack in an open boat. Dead straight into them then whatever angle you can make dead across them. On the 45degrees or whatever we call on the quarter and that can be where boats are wet. My current 3.5 tonne glass boat is probably just as good and dry up to 20deg either side of straight on then can be wet on the quarter to dead sideways to them if they are big enough. I can actually usually get a bit more speed out of the conditions if I am running about 20deg off straight on into them some days. Bit wetter but faster but doesn't matter in a hard top boat.

frosti
28-06-2015, 01:00 PM
Hmm, how to respondto arrogance.. it was intended as a tongue in cheek response , maybe a little high brow for you but no arrogance intended

TheRealAndy
28-06-2015, 05:17 PM
it was intended as a tongue in cheek response

Indeed it was.

koastal
28-06-2015, 07:29 PM
Indeed it was.

Still want to see a Grainger powercat ??

And curious about your mates awesome cat . Is it a grainger design ?

TheRealAndy
28-06-2015, 09:12 PM
Still want to see a Grainger powercat ??

And curious about your mates awesome cat . Is it a grainger design ?

My mates cat is a based on Tennant designed hulls. The moulds when up in smoke in a factory fire in Sandgate a few years back. Shame, because its one of the best powerboats I have ever been on.

koastal
29-06-2015, 07:07 AM
My mates cat is a based on Tennant designed hulls. The moulds when up in smoke in a factory fire in Sandgate a few years back. Shame, because its one of the best powerboats I have ever been on.


We had a cat deigned / built by Peter Brady - He was a student of Malcolm Tennants work.
Very efficient design, but inclined to plunge due to the fine entry at low to medium speeds.
I have given up on the Grainger powercat.

Back on topic- Chong has the answer below

Got a 4.2m seajay, pods mod on rear, 60 4 stroke yamie, came back in yesterday with a 10 -15 knt southerly against tide, was some chop bit over foot, 26 knts all the way, trim in, hold on and wait for calm water before having another beer ;) ... its a tinnie :)
Cheers
Chong

hainsofast
29-06-2015, 08:27 PM
just go glass