PDA

View Full Version : Advice needed on doors for boat shed.



Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 01:30 PM
I currently have a roller door on my shed but have to drop bimini/clears/rocket launcher to get boat in or out. Also my wife can't get a full caravan and has a pop top. Can't make opening higher due to thickness of roller door when open. There is plenty of height once in the shed to have the bimini/clears/rocket launcher and pop top fully set up.
What I would like to do is take roller down and put some barn/swinging doors to access the extra height currently occupied by the roller door roll. I can't find anything on the net and I am not very dyi.
Any engineers/fabricators on here or anyone done something similar please feel free to offer your advice!109555109556109557
Can i have swinging door? Or sliding like an aircraft hangar? On acreage so space not an issue?

Dignity
14-06-2015, 02:10 PM
Would panel doors give you the height you need.

Nick H
14-06-2015, 02:41 PM
Hi still dreaming,

The portal frame on the shed will span just like the others. The infill below this can be removed but the brace near the apex, will have to stay. You can get barn doors made up out of light gauge steel that hinge off the side of the portal frame. I would put an extra post in that's out of 3mm steel to carry the load and this will also be used as a portal brace 'PT Brace' to brace up the front of the shed and to hinge the doors off. They are basically just a set of barn doors, the shed manufactures should be able to supply and install the doors. We have fitted these on a few occasions on block storage sheds.
cheers Nick

Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 02:59 PM
Would panel doors give you the height you need.
Potentially but lose the ability to have the bimini/clears/rocket launcher or pop top van up when panel lift is open. Run the risk of damaging anything that is up if panel lift is opened.

Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 03:17 PM
Hi still dreaming,

The portal frame on the shed will span just like the others. The infill below this can be removed but the brace near the apex, will have to stay. You can get barn doors made up out of light gauge steel that hinge off the side of the portal frame. I would put an extra post in that's out of 3mm steel to carry the load and this will also be used as a portal brace 'PT Brace' to brace up the front of the shed and to hinge the doors off. They are basically just a set of barn doors, the shed manufactures should be able to supply and install the doors. We have fitted these on a few occasions on block storage sheds.
cheers Nick
Could I leave the frame the roller track runs down as a "PT Brace" and hinge the doors off there? I am happy with the width just want more height. When you say brace near the apex do you mean the sleeve with 8 bolts in it that joins the two beams?
Thanks for your help, hopefully it will make it easier when I talk to the shed builder.

Feral
14-06-2015, 03:22 PM
2 or 3 (better, as you get a wider opening) Sliding doors on tracks might also do the job, but none of them will be as weatherproof as the roller.

Out-Station
14-06-2015, 03:25 PM
Sliding doors would be the go i recon. Means you won't be able to have both bays open at the same time (doors will sild across into the other bay to open) but will be the goods I think. Should be able to buy a kit (maybe from same brand as your shed) and get a shed builder to fit it if you don't want to do it yourself.

astro66
14-06-2015, 04:13 PM
how much extra height do you need ??? your losing 300mm with the roller ....you could gain maybe 200mm extra with a panel lift door ....300mm with two swing doors ...if you want fancy lay a 150mm wide slab out the front off to the left or right and do a one piece roller door that slides off to the left or right you could even put a sliding gate motor on it and press a button to open :P

Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 04:53 PM
how much extra height do you need ??? your losing 300mm with the roller ....you could gain maybe 200mm extra with a panel lift door ....300mm with two swing doors ...if you want fancy lay a 150mm wide slab out the front off to the left or right and do a one piece roller door that slides off to the left or right you could even put a sliding gate motor on it and press a button to open :P
Explored the panel lift option. The draw back is it limits the height inside the shed for the length of the door ie at the moment once in the shed I have 3m at the wall and just on 5 metres in the centre. If i put a panel lift then my height in the shed would be limited to the door height say 3m for the length of the height of the door again say 3m. So the first 3m of the shed would be limited to 3m when door is open. Does that make sense? I would prefer to maintain the heights within the shed and increase the opening however that may be acheived

scottar
14-06-2015, 06:19 PM
I have done it on two sheds now. First one the shed builder supplied, the second one I fabricated myself. Cost about a grand to do myself but didn't bother shopping around for prices on componentry. Your issue with a double opening will be the weight of the doors. The first shed I had was 4 metres wide with a 3 metre wall and a 4 metre apex. The whole end of the shed was a pair of barn doors anchored on RHS posts and the weight of those created issues with hinges - the weight opened the hinges at the top and the door would not hang straight. They ended up locating the hinges on the front of the post behind the flashing so that the top and middle hinge could be moved out slightly so the door hung straight when closed.

My current shed is a total span which uses (I assume from the pics) a similar "C" section portal frame to yours. This prohibited putting the hinges on the front of the post so I used 4 sets of heavy duty gate hinges per door cut off and welded to a 5mm gal flat bar the full height of the post to make a heavy duty hinge assembly - was a PITA to set up as once assembled the hinge was stiff as a board and required quite a bit of time with the emery paper on the posts to free the movement up. These seem to be functioning great but they are only holding a door 1.3m wide. I also put extra braces on the posts top and bottom to minimise any movement due to weight.

I suspect with a double door opening the weight of your doors, especially without a solid RHS to anchor to, will require the door to supported at the base somehow. I have seen this done with a jockey wheel on a massive door at my Brother in Laws but he has a fairly flat pad out the front of his shed for the wheel to run on.

Chimo
14-06-2015, 06:45 PM
Hi SD

Leave the door alone, just excavate to lower the door jamb.

You appear to be rising up to enter the shed and from the pics it looks like cutting a ramp that drops the jamb the 300mm or whatever you need would get the gear (boat and van) low enough to get past the doorway.

No doubt something could be fabricated to close the gap between the bottom of the existing door and the lower jamb height but then again maybe the door can drop a fair bit more too. Perhaps you may even have the choice of a small gap at the top?

Cheers
Chimo

Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 06:51 PM
Hi SD

Leave the door alone, just excavate to lower the door jamb.

You appear to be rising up to enter the shed and from the pics it looks like cutting a ramp that drops the jamb the 300mm or whatever you need would get the gear (boat and van) low enough to get past the doorway.

No doubt something could be fabricated to close the gap between the bottom of the existing door and the lower jamb height but then again maybe the door can drop a fair bit more too. Perhaps you may even have the choice of a small gap at the top?

Cheers
Chimo

I like your thinking Chimo! Reckon that would be cheaper too.

Moejoes
14-06-2015, 06:56 PM
I just removed the roof, added 1200m to all the uprights & put the roof back on.
All engineered of course.

gofishin
14-06-2015, 07:01 PM
...with a double door opening the weight of your doors... will require the door to supported at the base somehow. I have seen this done with a jockey wheel on a massive door at my Brother in Laws but he has a fairly flat pad out the front of his shed for the wheel to run on. That's the go, H/D castor or trolley wheel to support a lot of the weight of each door. Wheels don't need to be at the edge (where the doors meet when closed). 1/2 or 3/4 along will be ok and will mean less 'dead flat' concrete out the front. Looks like only blue metal outside the shed so a slab out front will be no biggie.

Or....

Get some light weight ally doors made up, frames and skin. Will be pretty light and can do away with wheels/slab out front, but will still need some decent hinge mullions on the shed. If you need a price from someone we have a guy in our club that does good ally work and is mobile. He may be interested.

Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Still_Dreamin
14-06-2015, 07:06 PM
Anyone ever heard of roller or panel doors being installed vertically? I have 800mm each side of the opening that could house the roll/panels when open

Moejoes
14-06-2015, 07:12 PM
Anyone ever heard of roller or panel doors being installed vertically? I have 800mm each side of the opening that could house the roll/panels when open

It probably is possible.
Would be similar to a Bi-fold door set up with hanging track & bottom floor guide track.
Wouldn't be cheap tho.
Look Centor at Eaglefarm up.

scottar
14-06-2015, 07:28 PM
Other option may be a post in the middle and 4 smaller doors if you have sufficient width

Nick H
14-06-2015, 07:43 PM
Yes the brace with the eight bolts needs to stay. You will need to put a SHS in place of the current frame for strength, this should tie into the portal frame at the top and horizontal ties to the portal frame as well. Scottar is correct in saying you may get sag in the hinges. This will only occur if the brace in the gate is not put in the correct way which should be from the bottom hinge up to the top corner and also if the hinge points are not adiqute 25mm solid pin hinges or shipping container hinges would work. Make sure you have two located in the top 1500mm of the door where the most strain will be. 1.6mm wall thickeness is all you will need for the gates themselves to keep the weight down.
cheers Nick

scottar
14-06-2015, 08:04 PM
As Nick has added, the doors need bracing in the frame that effectively forms triangles to stop the door frame sagging under it's own weight. My frames have them from the top and bottom on the post side to the middle on the other side. I made my frames out of 40mm SHS with a 2mm wall but that was more to do with my welding skills and only having a stick welder - anything lighter than 2mm and I make a great colander LOL.

Good_as_Gold
22-06-2015, 05:21 PM
G-day
What size shed do you have is it 2.7 walls or 3m .Im just about to put one up 7.5 x 11 3m walls
i would like to go higher but $$$

Still_Dreamin
22-06-2015, 08:11 PM
7m x 10m x 3m
Thinking about this
www.midaliasteel.com/products/sliding-door-framing-system/

tunaticer
22-06-2015, 08:22 PM
You have 6 or 8 columns there.....why not raise the whole shed 60cm and if you are lucky the existing door will not need an extension piece.
End of the day it might be about the same money as two big barn doors and rework the front of the shed.
Will also give you room for another level of shelves too.

scottar
22-06-2015, 10:06 PM
You have 6 or 8 columns there.....why not raise the whole shed 60cm and if you are lucky the existing door will not need an extension piece.
End of the day it might be about the same money as two big barn doors and rework the front of the shed.
Will also give you room for another level of shelves too.

Just depends on your council. On a residential block in the Redland's I was only allowed a 2.7 metre wall unless I got signatures from any neighbour that could see the shed apparently or so I was told. It got way too hard, especially with the rentals as the agents are not allowed to release details of owners so you have to forward plans through them.

scottar
22-06-2015, 10:10 PM
7m x 10m x 3m
Thinking about this
www.midaliasteel.com/products/sliding-door-framing-system/ (http://www.midaliasteel.com/products/sliding-door-framing-system/)

And having doors across the front of the shed that slide or trying to build barn doors out of it?

Still_Dreamin
23-06-2015, 10:18 AM
Sliding I think. Still mulling it over. Barn door would be preferable as no tracks to worry about. Haven't had a chance to ring the shed manufacturer to see if they have a solution.

Gon Fishun
23-06-2015, 10:34 AM
Barn doors that follow the roof line would be my guess. If you go the sliding doors, you need a top sliding track. How are you going to attach it and to what? Or fit a top head guide U channel and bottom rollers on the doors, but once again it would extend out past the width of the shed.

scottar
24-06-2015, 01:28 AM
Anything that is light gauge and screws together won't have the physical strength to support the door at the hinge. I could just lift my frames to fit them on my own but it was an absolute mission and they are only 1.3 metres wide. It will be able to be done, just a case of how heavy the posts and attachments points need to be. Gon Fishen is on the money that sliders will require a pretty hideous looking top track frame and the width either side of the shed - not really practical.

AndrewB
24-06-2015, 02:06 PM
Had sliders on a far bigger shed at our local rural fire brigade and no problem to open and close doors just took a couple of seconds more than conventional doors.

I assume space restrictions preclude you from moving the roller door higher inside the shed ?

tunaticer
24-06-2015, 07:44 PM
You could fit the roller door externally higher and flash over it to maintain a weather seal.....will give you height to the apex if you wanted......

http://www.nustyleshutters.com.au/roller-shutters-gallery.html

Down towards the bottom shows a shed with external roller door

Still_Dreamin
25-06-2015, 08:13 AM
Had sliders on a far bigger shed at our local rural fire brigade and no problem to open and close doors just took a couple of seconds more than conventional doors.

I assume space restrictions preclude you from moving the roller door higher inside the shed ?

Yep already had it lifted another 100mm when we did the extension last year. No more room to lift it any higher.

Still_Dreamin
25-06-2015, 08:17 AM
You could fit the roller door externally higher and flash over it to maintain a weather seal.....will give you height to the apex if you wanted......

http://www.nustyleshutters.com.au/roller-shutters-gallery.html

Down towards the bottom shows a shed with external roller door

That's interesting. The size of the roll for a similar height opening looks a lot less bulky. Still takes up some of the valuable height I am after though. Contacted the shed builder via text yesterday and he wasn't enthusiastic. Next time I am near his shop I will drop in and have a chat and see if he has any thoughts

Still_Dreamin
21-10-2016, 01:15 PM
So I finally got the missus permission to alter the door. Seems her new caravan didn't fit otherwise 😁
Went with barn door style and looks awesome. Finishing touches being done today and it will be all done. Here is a progress pic. Anyone want to buy a used 5m wide by 3m high roller door?114616

Still_Dreamin
21-10-2016, 01:18 PM
Night shot without roller
114617

Won't have to drop the bimini to the boat in and out anymore!!!

Still_Dreamin
21-10-2016, 01:33 PM
Post deleted. Double up

scottar
21-10-2016, 01:49 PM
. Anyone want to buy a used 5m wide by 3m high roller door?

Good Luck. I couldn't even give mine away.......so I put an extension on the back of the shed and used it there. Looks good. Bet the doors are heavy at that size. Make sure you have a good restraining system for when they are opened - lot of windage.