For all those weight conscious people

[Moejoes]

Hi all,
Thought I'd put this up.
Just purchased one of these drawbar scales to get a better idea what weight I have on my towball.
Supposed to weigh up to 400kg's.
Weighed mine today and only had 200kg's on the ball but will confirm accuracy when I take it back over a weigh bridge.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301564977386?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Should come in handy when loading up, especially with the long haul runs to ensure not over or under loaded on the ball.

[ranmar850]

So you "only have 200Kg" on the ball? How heavy is your boat? Over 2 tonnes? You might want to read this article, which contains some actual research and not just opinion. http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability I think we really tend to overload our towbars in this country, it's more about weight distribution on the trailer being towed, rather than the towball weight, which is the accepted wisdom, and really needs looking at. My last boat was a good 1800kg loaded (1500kg with no gear, iceboxes and only 100 litres of fuel on board) on a load sharing rocker roller tandem. Towball weight was just over 100kg, towed all day at 100km/hr very well indeed.

[Back In Black]

Nah,his boat is a big fat heavy bastard!!

[outta line]

Tony ... lucky you put the word boat in that sentence ..... i could of read that another way....lol

[fisho64]

mine at 3 tonnes and 185kg on the towball tows well-no swaying at all

[Moejoes]

So you "only have 200Kg" on the ball? How heavy is your boat? Over 2 tonnes? You might want to read this article, which contains some actual research and not just opinion. http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability I think we really tend to overload our towbars in this country, it's more about weight distribution on the trailer being towed, rather than the towball weight, which is the accepted wisdom, and really needs looking at. My last boat was a good 1800kg loaded (1500kg with no gear, iceboxes and only 100 litres of fuel on board) on a load sharing rocker roller tandem. Towball weight was just over 100kg, towed all day at 100km/hr very well indeed.

Boat is 3.8 tonnes, so should have approx. 380 kgs on the ball ( 10% ).
Too light on the ball will cause the trailer to sway.

[Back In Black]

Tony ... lucky you put the word boat in that sentence ..... i could of read that another way....lol


Mick, I chose my words very carefully!!

[Moejoes]

Mick, I chose my words very carefully!!

I'm sure you did :P

[bannana]

Both trailer and driver well over weight but as far as the 10% rule goes I tend to believe it depends on the set up and balance of the trailer. Just because your boat weighs 3.8t doesn't necessarily mean 380kg on th tow bad is the ideal set up. Balance is the key in my opinion.

[Moejoes]

Both trailer and driver well over weight but as far as the 10% rule goes I tend to believe it depends on the set up and balance of the trailer. Just because your boat weighs 3.8t doesn't necessarily mean 380kg on th tow bad is the ideal set up. Balance is the key in my opinion.

Agree Keith, I believe that it is only a general rule.
Depends on dynamics of the tow vehicle & boat as well, how it handles wind, boat shape & size, roller rocker setup vs torsion bar suspension setup.
Every trailer will behave differently.
Last time I put mine on the weigh bridge I had 280kgs on the ball & it always towed great.
I think my ideal setup is around 300kgs mark, hence these scales to see what differences the weight makes.
Otherwise I have no idea what weight is on the ball.
Having it too light is also not a good thing.

[Darren Mc]

Does the maximum specified tow ball weight on the tow bar count for anything?

[scottar]

Does the maximum specified tow ball weight on the tow bar count for anything?

It will if you overload it and have an accident or get pulled up. The other thing these scales are good for is to actually see if your tow vehicle is within it's legal gvm. The old mans Nissan Patrol has a few accessories fitted - steel bar, second battery, draw system with a few tools, cargo barrier, fridge and a few other light weight bits and pieces. Full of fuel and with 2 people on board he has to set the weight of the towbar downforce by strategically loading the van to keep the rig legal.

[Moejoes]

It will if you overload it and have an accident or get pulled up. The other thing these scales are good for is to actually see if your tow vehicle is within it's legal gvm. The old mans Nissan Patrol has a few accessories fitted - steel bar, second battery, draw system with a few tools, cargo barrier, fridge and a few other light weight bits and pieces. Full of fuel and with 2 people on board he has to set the weight of the towbar downforce by strategically loading the van to keep the rig legal.

Isn't that then applying a negative weight to the ball to lift the arse of the ute up Scottar ;)

Darren I think that just because the towbar states 350kgs max. that is not necessarily correct.
You also need to ensure the tow vehicle is rated to tow 3500kgs.
You could have a vehicle fitted with a 3500kg rated tow bar but the towing capacity of the vehicle is only say 2500kg's.
In this case you could only apply 250kgs max. to the tow ball of that vehicle to ensure you are legal.

[Back In Black]

I'm sure you did :P

You know me Rob, always the diplomat!! LOL

But the Range Rover may never be the same after today!!!!!!!

[scottar]

Isn't that then applying a negative weight to the ball to lift the arse of the ute up Scottar ;)



LOL, Not quite but I have towed a box trailer that may or may not have been slightly overloaded that did apply those sort of forces to the back of the 200 series. It was a less than enjoyable exercise. It towed straight without issue but when it started raining and brake application was required travelling downhill towards a roundabout, it got REALLY exciting. ABS was going off - sounded and felt like the arse was falling out of the car. Not something that I am in any hurry to do again.

[Moejoes]

You know me Rob, always the diplomat!! LOL

But the Range Rover may never be the same after today!!!!!!!

LOL that was funny this arvo.
I get out the back and Rangi sags even further............
In normal cars when you take weight out they rise ;D

[ranmar850]

Boat is 3.8 tonnes, so should have approx. 380 kgs on the ball ( 10% ).
Too light on the ball will cause the trailer to sway
Did you actually read the link I supplied? The old rule of 10% or the vehicle will sway misconception is what this whole thread is about.

[Back In Black]

LOL that was funny this arvo.
I get out the back and Rangi sags even further............
In normal cars when you take weight out they rise ;D

It wasn't sagging, it was just relaxing!!

[Moejoes]

Did you actually read the link I supplied? The old rule of 10% or the vehicle will sway misconception is what this whole thread is about.

Sorry Ranmar, I'll have a read.

[Moejoes]

Sorry Ranmar, I'll have a read.

Interesting read.
Especially about Europe. In saying that, their roads are far better than Australian roads, they also mainly run the independent torsion bar suspension systems which definitely gives more stability with towing & also would allow for a lighter tow ball weight.
I believe with roller rocker suspension systems they tend to cause the trailer to steer side to side slightly as one side of the trailer spring leaf compresses over uneven rough surfaces causing sway & this is where more load on the towbar would help to a certain degree.
As the link said it's a list of multiple factors that need to be taken into account Eg. road conditions, wind, dynamics of item being towed.
Cheers

[gofishin]

mine at 3 tonnes and 185kg on the towball tows well-no swaying at all My figures are near identical, maybe up to 7% for 3t boat when loaded for a big trip, but mostly about 6% (180kg), probably even less for local trips.

I have swept torsion axles, very low boat (low CoG). It is by far the best 3-3.5t towed rig I have ever driven while towing, or been in the car with etc. Emergency braking, emergency avoidance etc it is extremely predictable and very safe. However, it doesn't help with any undie changing requirements after said incidents! :)

It has a lot to do with the trailer design and as Keith mentioned, it's all about the balance of the rig (both longitudinal and vertical) - and how you load it. It obviously also helps a lot as the tow tractor weight gets heavier in proportion to the BMT.


Does the maximum specified tow ball weight on the tow bar count for anything? Yep, as Scotty mentioned, very important if you want to keep your house in the event of an 'accident'.

You will find that most EU 4WD's are not rated for 10% ball mass, some a lot less. Maybe Jeep too from memory but not 100% sure on that.

Some Jap 4WD's are/were not rated for 10% either, and/or some are downgraded as the towed load gets near the max - Navara D40 and Pajero for one.

I did a lot of research when I bought & set mine up (as I had towball load restrictions to deal with), and found a few good technical papers on the net (from EU and Jap manufacturers) which were very interesting, and proved that 10% was not needed, and in many cases caused the 'total rig' to be a lot more unstable (dangerous) than with less %.

My theory on the 10% is that it was/is very easy to calculate, hence it stuck ...! :)
Cheers
Brendon


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