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View Full Version : Minn Kota ULTERRA (Who wants one?)



LittleSkipper
08-04-2015, 03:11 PM
https://youtu.be/LdNLuLfl8OI

astro66
08-04-2015, 05:34 PM
need a saltwater version ....still a little expensive just for auto deploy ...

kc
20-03-2017, 10:28 AM
Thought it might be the right time to revisit this post and see what the "lived experience" has been for any owners. I will start with mine. I purchased a 112 lb Ulterra in August of 2016. I was reluctant as I figured it was just more things to go wrong but I replaced my 80lb with 60 inch shaft with a 72 inch shaft (as I needed the extra length due to cavitation when pitching into any size sea) and the only unit with 72 inch was the 112 ulterra. When it works like the ad it is just gold. Everyone who see it work, loves the thing, a real head turner and a great fish catcher as well. That is, when it works. First unit had a remote failure 2nd time out, remote was replaced same day by dealer who took the new remote out of a complete new units box. I did order a back-up remote in August just to be safe. I am stall waiting and have even sent a request to some US stockists to try to import direct; with no joy. The motor itself crapped its pants on the 3rd use and thankfully the problem was intermittent and I managed to get it stowed. Unit was replaced same day with a new unit, more because of a good dealer, not a good company. Replace motor had a complete failure on Saturday after it deployed. So, in the "down" position it stayed and here I am 120ks off shore. I did, against the advice of the company, install a metal quick release bracket but due to the harshness of the salt water environment the locking pin mechanism also failed and so I am 120k's offshore and looking at a 12 to 15 hour trip home. We did manage to virtually pull the motor to bits to haul it in the boat and luckily had sufficient tools on board but what a F#@@^ drama. So it is to the dealer today, in pieces, to see the outcome. If I could have purchased a normal Min Kotta 112 with 72 shaft I would have at the time. Will see what come of the latest problems and will upgrade the quick release bracket arrangement and idiot proof the thing as best I can, even if I have to spend some more money. The spot lock facility on a big minn kota is, by my significant offshore experience, the most significant fish catching development since the sounder and GPS. pretty much triples the catch rate of a boat without one. The Ulterra however are a complicated bit of engineering and just more things to go wrong in a harsh environment and when you are long way from port it is becoming a constant nagging worry.

mace01
20-03-2017, 10:43 AM
Sorry to hear of that nightmare. Maybe one of the polypropylene universal QR mounts would work better. Until I got my new boat, I'd had mine for years and could still get the motor off whenever I needed to. Mat.

kc
20-03-2017, 12:14 PM
I have the plastic mount on my creek boat with a 55 and yes, no issue. Also had the same mount on the 80 lb unit on the reef boat but was advised in no uncertain terms that this was not strong enough for the 112 lb ulterra. There is a metal bracket available which is what I ended up using but the shape of the base plate of the ulterra means it is difficult to get at the locking pin arrangement. Ended up with a large S/Steel grub screw as the "pin" fixing the unit to the quick release bracket as there is not even enough room for a wing nut arrangement and I think the screw, S/Steel to aluminium has corroded into place and the screw head was seized to a point of failure. even with vice grips on a good quality driver, some lubricant and some banging on the end of the driver. Lucky my crew was a mechanic/ fitter and knew his stuff, otherwise I would probably still be on the way in!! If the same motor go back on we will modify the mounting bracket and perhaps even grind away some of the plastic side plate to give better access to the quick release mounts.

Skusto
20-03-2017, 12:43 PM
Nothing worse then new gear failing prematurely KC, Hopefully they iron out the kinks soon as the idea is great for a lot of half cabin boats!

We put the 80lb I Pilot on the Barcrusher about 5 years ago and is a pain going through hatch to lift and deploy was looking at these for when the current one gets old and tired but wouldn't touch it at the moment if its not reliable!

Good to see some honest feedback.

tropicrows
20-03-2017, 02:55 PM
Interesting story and i hope you get it all sorted. I have an 80 lb
salt warer unit but i find the spot lock takes too long to sort itself out and im not where i want to be.

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rayken1938
20-03-2017, 03:14 PM
The instruction book gives details on how to stow the motor if it fails to stow automatically. I had mine fail to stow and was able to stowit manually. Took it back to BLA and they found a stick caught up the head unit.( My own fault tree bashing in the hinze) fixed same day no charge so I was happy with that.
Cheers
Ray

kc
20-03-2017, 04:07 PM
Actually had the "manual stow procedure" naminated in my overhead glove box but didn't work. Problem appeared to be the motor actually jammed down. Like a failure on the belt mechanism which lifts motor up and down, not the tilt mechanism. Problem made worse as motor titled further and weight became so much it snapped titling motor from it mounting due to the weight. All up would (IMO) be much better if it had a simple quick release override like the normal models, but, this is clearly a complicated piece of machinery and operating in an environment which is tough. All up I am still a fan and will repair and modify with an eye to the future. They have made fishing so much more productive, particularly over deep water bombies and reef edges, but, have to say I was always worried and would have gone for the standard model if they made a 72 inch shaft.

don-one
20-03-2017, 05:04 PM
Hi KC, I am in the process of going down the electric motor path so thanks for posting this information.

Just wondering what the measurement is from your electric motor mount to the water line? Mine is on the border line of requiring the 72' shaft but could possibly get away with the 60'.

Sounds like you have been down this path already mate so appreciate any info.

Based on what you've supplied I think i will go with the manual deploy into.

Thanks again.



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hungry6
20-03-2017, 08:46 PM
Maybe I will wait until they get all the teething issues sorted out.

kc
20-03-2017, 09:28 PM
Hi Don, My post is really not to bag the Minn kota as it is a "flash" bit of kit and when it works it is an amazing "toy". Maybe I have had bad luck but first unit failed after 3 trips and second one has maybe done 30, plus a remote failure, so pretty ordinary for a $4500 bit of gear. Service from dealer has been first rate, service from company (as in buying a spare remote) has been dreadful. I will see how warrantee ends up before I rush to full judgement on the company. I also think they should have made a simple manual override for stowing the unit, but maybe that was too hard to engineer. As to shaft lengths, my boat is about 105 cm from bow to waterline which means, allowing for approx. 6cms....and maybe given shaft length is in inches I should talk inches. Mounting from underside of control head to point at which control head clears the transom is about 4 inches. Top of transom to waterline is 44 inches which buries unit in the water 12 inches at full length. With a largish boat, sitting bow into a sea and wave height which cause the bow to pitch more than about 6 inches cause the 60 inch shaft to cavitate. I get very occasional cavitation even with the 72 inch shaft. The 60 inch was hopeless in anything but calm seas (on my boat). A mate has just installed a 112/ 60 inch on a 6.5 Cruisecraft at it seems pretty OK but he has not had much use for it yet. Another mate has a 60 inch motorguide on a 23 Seafox and seems happy. My boat is very high at the bow and has a very deep vee so is prone to burying its nose into a sea and then pitching very high as a consequence, so, horses for courses. If I could get away with a 60 inch shaft, I would have a 122 Riptide as being a centre console, walking up to front to deploy is not an issue. I can see however the attraction of the ulterra for 1/2 cabs (and lazy old bugger like me who like to show off). Again the post is not to turn anyone off an ulterra but I think the more things that can go wrong on the water, will and more thought should be designed into "murphy's law" situations. Stuck way out at sea with a motor stuck in the down position is a major worry and Min Kotta strongly advise NOT to mount these on a quick release bracket. Easiest option would be to manufacture a suitable quick release bracket if the manual stow option is too hard.

don-one
20-03-2017, 09:34 PM
Thanks mate, great info


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mace01
21-03-2017, 06:43 AM
And just to throw a cat among the pigeons. On my old Cruise Craft 530, i mounted the MG 60" Xi5 to the step platform on the rear of the boat. It was way easier to install and manage than a bow mount. For the anchor lock it worked beautifully. The only (minor) problem was when in heading-lock mode, you needed to remember to "steer" in the opposite direction that a bow-mount. I'm now in a Sig 543SF and have a bow mount, but the old MG on the transom worked a treat as well. I think the yanks make some great stuff, but really do so much lake fishing that they don't understand the rigours of the saltwater "oceanic" environment. Most of the saltwater they seem to fish in is bays too... Mat.

rayken1938
21-03-2017, 06:59 AM
IF using a metal quick release you would have to mount it back to front to remove a stuck down motor and it would probable need 2 persons to remove it.
I am just able to lift my 80 pound motor by myself and would not be able to remove it at sea, I am a bit old in the tooth so not as strong as some of you young guns.
If it was not for the ulterra doubt if would still be fishing.
Strange that some of the rivals have not developed one.
Cheers
Ray

Camhawk88
22-03-2017, 09:39 AM
KC, I'm looking into one of these but will probably opt for the Terrova, partly price, partly to avoid the shit you have endured. I'm in a center consul so access is not an issue for me.
Just wondering in your experience how they go in a bit of current. Im looking to use it out wide Red fishing and 2-3 knots of current is not unusual. What sort of run time do you get out of your batteries in hard running current? I'd look to have 3x 120aH batteries.

kc
22-03-2017, 03:33 PM
I typically fish in less current (but at times pretty stiff breeze) and have never gone even close to running low on battery power (3 by 120 AH) with about 10 hours pretty solid use. Really only use it as an electric anchor, not for moving and casting but I don't think you would have any issue. Mine is a pretty big lump of a boat. Big issue is that you can get sufficient depth off your mounting height to bury the prop. Cavitation on larger boats with only a 60 inch shaft is a problem. I notice 72 inch shafts are now available in the states on the standard model, but, as at this time, they are only on the Ulterras in Australia. My motor is now with an authorised repair agent awaiting outcome of warrantee claim. Will post results but, having become so spoilt, proably won't use the boat until it is fixed. Back to barra bashing for a while. Life's hard in the Whitsundays.

cork24
24-03-2017, 07:44 PM
I typically fish in less current (but at times pretty stiff breeze) and have never gone even close to running low on battery power (3 by 120 AH) with about 10 hours pretty solid use. Really only use it as an electric anchor, not for moving and casting but I don't think you would have any issue. Mine is a pretty big lump of a boat. Big issue is that you can get sufficient depth off your mounting height to bury the prop. Cavitation on larger boats with only a 60 inch shaft is a problem. I notice 72 inch shafts are now available in the states on the standard model, but, as at this time, they are only on the Ulterras in Australia. My motor is now with an authorised repair agent awaiting outcome of warrantee claim. Will post results but, having become so spoilt, proably won't use the boat until it is fixed. Back to barra bashing for a while. Life's hard in the Whitsundays.
Hi Kc
sorry to here about the major problem you had with your minn Kota, I hope bla will look after you and repair or replace your unit

I am looking at putting a trolling motor onto my 5.4 performance plate centre console boat and I am looking at the terrova minn Kota or motorguide xi5
what dose you mate think of the motorguide I ask this because it look like I will be have to replacing my sounder also and l like the lowrance Ti 9" .

Again i hope all works out good for you.

kc
26-03-2017, 05:32 AM
Motorguide appears to be fine and a good bit cheaper. It does not look and feel as "robust" and this appears to be a pretty general opinion. Spot lock on the motorguide is excellent and I believe the newer min kota models also have improved GSP capacity for better spot lock. The older models wander around quiet a bit in breeze. They work fine in a good steady current but not in areas of low current and breeze. Lots of reviews on sites like The Hull Truth from users of both. I would rate my satisfaction level with the 55 terranova on my little boat at about 6/10 (due to wander) and the ulterra 9/10 for performance and fishability when it works but 3/10 for reliability.

kc
08-06-2017, 05:07 PM
Bit of an update for those who followed this. I got the ulterra back and refitted after warrantee repairs.....BUT...it appears they replaced the mother board with a new one, but one programmed for a 60 inch shaft. So when I take the 72 all the way down it stops dead with a full 12 inches of shaft stuck up in the air. Kind of defeats the purpose of buying the 72 in the first place....sigh. Back she goes again. Kind of thought it would be something they would check before it left the workshop.

rayken1938
08-06-2017, 07:46 PM
I thought that you could adjust it yourself. I have mislaid my cd so cannot check so Give them a ring.
Cheers
Ray

kc
08-06-2017, 08:00 PM
Local dealer rang repairer and we worked through the re-set program over the phone but the mother board is "apparently" set for a 60 inch and it needs a (another) new 72 board.

Camhawk88
09-06-2017, 09:05 AM
No good mate. Might stick with the anchor and deckie set up for now. Cheaper but does make a whining noise when I move a lot.

kc
09-06-2017, 02:02 PM
Know what you mean. Missus is getting a bit too long in the tooth these days so will stick with the leccy.

blacklab
09-06-2017, 03:50 PM
Hope you get it sorted kc.
I read this thread with great interest !
boats getting a rebuild now so will be off the water for probably 12 months. I thought the anchor winch was a fantastic new addition and with
70 % of my fishing solo, a game changer !!!
But these minn kota machines, wow, I can sure see the benefits.
I had always thought they were for lakes and calm bays and no good for a fibreglass 5.5 mtr boat, so this has really got my interest up.
I noted you said your catch rate jumped markedly ? I quite often chase whiting, which has made me put a dampner/ stocking over the anchor chain to
quieten the anchor operation down, but one of these beasts, that would be a game changer.
Tell me, it sounds as though there only bow fitted ? ( as mentioned, seen them advertised but never taken any notice)
C

mace01
09-06-2017, 06:43 PM
Tell me, it sounds as though there only bow fitted ? ( as mentioned, seen them advertised but never taken any notice)
C

You can very successfully mount a bow mount MG (or MK I guess) on the stern of the boat. Mine worked a charm on my Cruise Craft until I sold the boat. Just need to find the mounting method, but on the CC it was easy. Mat.

blacklab
09-06-2017, 07:45 PM
Thanks mace, mines an older model cruise craft. Already starting to do some searching on these.
cheers
C

mace01
10-06-2017, 08:06 AM
Mine fit perfectly on the rear-step area. not sure what model you've got though. Mat

kc
10-06-2017, 01:32 PM
More and more getting fitted up this way and a mate just fitted a 112 with 60 inch shaft on the 6 meter cruise craft 1/2 cab. They are revolutionising reef fishing. Really good for deep water shoals and quickly moving from bombie to bombie in the shallows. Don't think they will ever replace an anchor for things like whiting or bream fishing and I still use an anchor a lot in my creek boat if I am bait fishing. Happy to go out on a limb and say 200% more fish (at least) using one of these compared to anchoring if you are fishing reef edges, bombies or shoals. Have never seen one stern fitted. This would worry me a little pointing stern on to any waves plus not be as efficient in terms of the drag effect of the "blunt end" facing into sea or current.

kc
10-06-2017, 01:41 PM
Here is mates boat . Cruisecraft with bow mounted 112 lb Terrova. Has cut and hinged bow rail to allow deploy/stow motor.

Dantren
11-06-2017, 08:25 AM
Kc, hope you get yours back soon.
I certainly agree they put heaps more fish in the boat.
What model Cruise Craft is that? 625 Outsider?

myusernam
11-06-2017, 10:06 AM
I dint know why anyone is surprised eith problems of longevity. Minn kotas were hard enough to keep going on barra boats in calm water. Put them at the bow of a reef boat and run then two hours each way into chop and stuffs bound to happen. Theyre just noy that well made, and the constant pounding and salt spray at the biw of a boat is probably the toughest environment anywhere

kc
11-06-2017, 08:28 PM
Fair call. The big ones do come with a tie down strap arrangement which stops the "head wobble" to a large degree but proof will be in the pudding. So far I am inclined to say the Terranova in pretty bullet proof. The Ulterra is an amazing unit to use, when it works!! At the same time, these things are worth the trouble trying to get them right. Either bring out the bullet proof Terranova big enough to handle big boats or get the Ulterra right because, IMO, they are the single biggest advancement in fish catching technology since the GPS itself.

gofishin
11-06-2017, 10:19 PM
... What model Cruise Craft is that? 625 Outsider?Looks like it Dantren, otherwise possibly a 575. Def not an Outsider 685.

A mate has just put one on a 685 Exp, has only tried it in the Marina harbour though, not offshore.
Cheers



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kc
12-06-2017, 08:21 AM
Yep 625 Outsider

Hillbillyfish
13-06-2017, 11:01 PM
Here is mates boat . Cruisecraft with bow mounted 112 lb Terrova. Has cut and hinged bow rail to allow deploy/stow motor.
Hey Kc, mate ive got a cruise craft 575 outsider and have been waiting on some info/pics of an electric and how they been set up. Can u please let me know if the 112lb terrova your mate has is a 60 inch shaft and if u could ask him how it performs in roughish water, would be absolutely appreciated.

Cheers

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kc
15-06-2017, 09:10 AM
My mates boat is a 625 cruisecraft outsider. 60 inch 112lb Terranova on a bow mount extension purpose build for this boat. I can get you some close up pics if you want. I have fished beside him in modest conditions and it works perfectly. My bow is quite a bit higher out of the water and I have a much deeper vee so the boats bow sinks into any oncoming waves very easily and then pitches higher as a result making the 60 inch shaft prone to bad cavitation. From what I have personally seen and advise I have had the 60 inch shaft is plenty for a cruisecraft. Also happy to report the dealer replaced the (new) mother board yesterday which was set for a 60, with another new one set for a 72 and it is all systems go. Weather this Saturday looks like a nice little window so the reddies should be nervous. Might throw up some pics next week if we "smash 'em".

kc
15-06-2017, 10:58 AM
Hillbilly email me direct kc@Whitsunday.net.au and I will send you a heap of pics. Too many to post here.

Kev

Hillbillyfish
15-06-2017, 06:43 PM
Will do kc thanks very much

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ranmar850
19-06-2017, 11:45 PM
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/852269-i-will-never-buy-another-minn-kota-ipilot.html

Hillbillyfish
20-06-2017, 01:06 AM
My mate has a motor guide on his haines hunter. He says it is so reliable and the spot lock function is magnificent on it. So im really considering one of them.

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nidrac
20-06-2017, 08:08 AM
Going through the same process now, the local motorguide dealer here has a dozen or so in for repairs/replacement as well. Have a few mates with the older versions and they swear by them though, think its a bit of a gamble either way you go. For me i think i'll be going the Ulterra for the autodeply as its going on the nose of a half cabin.

mace01
20-06-2017, 08:45 AM
I've said this before somewhere, but the first decision to make with either MG or MK is what sort of sounder system you have. The ability to anchor lock directly from the MFD is an absolute game changer when offshore. So, if you run Lowrance buy MG, if you run Humminbird buy MK, if you run Garmin by either coz it won't interface directly anyway...Mat.

nidrac
20-06-2017, 09:54 AM
Definitely would have some advantages on the larger boats fishing deep water, I've been running Garmin for a while so i have the luxury/disadvantage depending on which way you look at it to have the choice of either.

myusernam
20-06-2017, 09:46 PM
One massive advantage of motorguide, other than its not a minn kota 😃, is they are sold by mercury dealers and have the same repair and parts network. If you have a fault, any mercury dealer can diagnose and order individual parts. Minn kota you have to return to place of purchase, which then freights to BLA in brisbane, which then repairs and freights back. Try going through that process several times and tell me if you dont taste balls. MG, just take it still bolted to boat to local mercury dealer, pick up later. Plus they're heaps better anyway.
Nidrac Id be srnding the crew to the bow to deploy any day rather than gettin a minnkota. If they complain make them pull the anchor a few times from 50m in quick succession, or offer them a swim. Insubordination needs to be dealt with harshly.

kc
23-11-2018, 09:51 AM
Just a little revist to this old post, now 2 years on. The Ulterra ultimately had 6 major failures while under warantee. A disaster and a unit clearly desinged for calm fresh water lakes, not the harsh blue water chop of an open ocean. Just too much to go wrong which was always my worry. That said, and absolute credit where it is due, I took the motor back to the dealer after the last failure and said enough. I don't want it fixed and as I know the 72 inch 110 with manual deploy is now available in Australia, I want an upgrade (downgrade) to the old style bullet proof model. I was prepared to pay a fair and reasonable amount to swap over but due to lobbying by my dealer and the history of at sea failures, Min Kotta have done a straight swap at no cost. Restored my faith in the company and Australian branch. Actually prepared to cop it on the chin that the Ulterra is a bit too precious for our conditions. The new manual deploy unit has just arrived in Brisbane and will be installed next week. I have loved the experience of "electric anchoring" and it has at least doubled if not tripled my catch rates so really never want to go back to anchoring in deep water. Well done Min Kotta Australia and I look forward to spending more time on the water and less time with the boat in the shed waiting for (another) repair job.

hungry6
23-11-2018, 08:22 PM
Thanks for the update KC, I got a 80/72 manual deploy one after reading about your dramas previously. I was hoping I wasnt wrong by going with a normal one, now I dont feel too bad about the trip to the front to drop it in.

TREVELLY
23-11-2018, 09:44 PM
Yep it's on my bucket list :-)
Manual model

NAGG
24-11-2018, 07:28 AM
I came to within a bees dick of buying one but it was a case of bad luck & ….. a little self justification that I ended up with a manual 80lb .
The bad luck was (after ringing BLA) that due to how far the motor needed to extend during deployment - it would hit the bow rail ( I would either need to cut the bow rail or modify the mounting ( which would then impede access to the deck hatch) ……. so while feeling sorry for my self I came to the conclusion that auto stow & deploy + height adjust were 3 more things that could go wrong - and knowing that Minn Kota's are notorious for having issues I felt better :)……

Chris

Andy56
24-11-2018, 09:13 AM
Just googled electric trolling motors and was very surprised . China seems to make a very large range from $50US. To $350US. They all look similar too. Mmmmmmmm
i wonder where these premium brands are actually made. Not castng any aspersions but i wonder.

TREVELLY
24-11-2018, 10:28 AM
Just googled electric trolling motors and was very surprised . China seems to make a very large range from $50US. To $350US. They all look similar too. Mmmmmmmm
i wonder where these premium brands are actually made. Not castng any aspersions but i wonder.

You don't have to wonder where they are copied

An 1895 article in Scientific American entitled "A Portable Electric Propeller for Boats" stated: "Briefly described, it consists of a movable tube which is hinged at the stern of the boat, much as an oar is used in sculling. The tube contains a flexible shaft formed of three coils of phosphor bronz. This tube extends down and out into the water, where it carries a propeller, and at the inboard end an electric Motor is attached, which is itself driven by batteries." It was invented and sold by the Electric Boat company.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_motor#cite_note-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_motor#cite_note-2)
The electric trolling motor was invented by O.G.Schmidt in 1934[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_motor#cite_note-Trolling101-3) in Fargo, North Dakota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo,_North_Dakota), when he took a starter motor from a Ford Model A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_A_(1927%E2%80%9331)), added a flexible shaft, and a propeller. Because his manufacturing company was near the Minnesota/North Dakota border, he decided to call the new company Minn Kota. The company still is a major manufacturer of trolling motors.

NAGG
24-11-2018, 12:26 PM
Just googled electric trolling motors and was very surprised . China seems to make a very large range from $50US. To $350US. They all look similar too. Mmmmmmmm
i wonder where these premium brands are actually made. Not castng any aspersions but i wonder.

Both Minn Kota & Motorguide are manufactured in the US & Torqeedo are German made

Chris

Andy56
24-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Both Minn Kota & Motorguide are manufactured in the US & Torqeedo are German made

Chris
and chinese iphone rivals are pretty good too. I am reaching the stage that made in america doesnt guarantee the best in lots of areas. Doesnt mean chinese are inferior quality either. Is it time to question this sort of product too? Have there been any tests or reviews on the alternatives?

TREVELLY
24-11-2018, 08:52 PM
I have to admit - $3.5k for an electric motor with GPS is a lot of money - IT isn't that expensive and electric motor with some seals - I think the price is a reflection that there isn't good competition

NAGG
25-11-2018, 05:13 AM
and chinese iphone rivals are pretty good too. I am reaching the stage that made in america doesnt guarantee the best in lots of areas. Doesnt mean chinese are inferior quality either. Is it time to question this sort of product too? Have there been any tests or reviews on the alternatives?

Im sure Great Wall and Haval cars are really good💩

NAGG
25-11-2018, 05:26 AM
I have to admit - $3.5k for an electric motor with GPS is a lot of money - IT isn't that expensive and electric motor with some seals - I think the price is a reflection that there isn't good competition

We are paying a massive premium here .... BLA are stinging us big time. I actually imported one out of the US and even with shipping and duties I saved over a grand. Yes I rolled the dice on warranty but I knew that repairs we relatively simple and the parts are reasonably inexpensive. .... the usual failures are in the head unit which are literally plug and play.

anyhow .... 1 year on and no dramas.

Chris

myusernam
25-11-2018, 06:06 AM
Bla are gougers. Same with cannon downriggers. The motorguide is a mercury outboard, with a full parts breakdown and support at any mercury dealer. Plus integration into navico products.

scottar
25-11-2018, 07:54 AM
Bla are gougers. Same with cannon downriggers. The motorguide is a mercury outboard, with a full parts breakdown and support at any mercury dealer. Plus integration into navico products.

At the end of the day the money ends up inthe same spot. Brunswick owns BLA. At the end of the day, the market sets the price. If people stop buying them because the competition has a better product, prices fall.

NAGG
25-11-2018, 12:02 PM
Bla are gougers. Same with cannon downriggers. The motorguide is a mercury outboard, with a full parts breakdown and support at any mercury dealer. Plus integration into navico products.

Imported a Cannon downrigger last year …… close to half the price - Yep another BLA gouge

Chris

Andy56
25-11-2018, 01:24 PM
Imported a Cannon downrigger last year …… close to half the price - Yep another BLA gouge

Chris
look there are always people who will pay more for perceived quality. I just thought out loud about the chinese units. I tried to search for reviews but google being from the US, its not easy getting info from anyone else who doesnt pay for advertising . Allibaba has literally hundreds of different vendors. But then, thats a different rabbit hole.

scottar
25-11-2018, 05:16 PM
Sure stuff is expensive here but think about the costs incurred in running a marine business - like BLA. Sponsorship for events, advertising, warranty coverage, freight, shows, normal business expenses for day to day, wages and the list goes on. Someone has to pay and in a country with such a large area yet such a small population, cold hard economics mean the costs are spread across significantly lower numbers of units - nothing new about that. Take a look at motor vehicle price differences - same same.

As for the Chinese stuff - I recently fitted an Ebay switch panel to a mates boat - worked great for a fortnight until the switches literally snapped in half. Yes, you can get good gear from China but there is also a lot of absolute shit that comes out of there at bargain basement prices with zero support. Also think about product development costs - not cheap - unless you simply copy your competitions products and concepts. Yet another reason Chinese stuff ends up cheaper. Would I personally drop a K or two to import a Chinese variant of a GPS capable electric outboard for saltwater use...…...yeah NAH. Don't think the lack of info is so much a google thing - just most people wanting some sort of back up in case there are issues so the sales of the "generic" Chinese stuff are very low. How do you think KC would have got on if he had imported direct or fitted an Ebay special from China (if there is even something with similar capabilities) and had the issues he has had. My guess - very expensive for return freight to the States or odd looking anchor if from China.

This is not a crack at people wanting to take a chance on direct import - I totally get it - money is money, but to then give Aussie companies a hard time over prices is a bit poor. For every one bought in direct, the rest get more expensive on a cost per unit basis.

NAGG
25-11-2018, 08:36 PM
Yes - stuff is expensive here & it is usually because some company sighns up as a sole distributor - The outlets have no choice but to go via the distributor ....... with the right products - it can be a licence to print money as was the case for BLA .
sorry with that much disparity .... I'd rather put that $K in my pocket.
It reminded me of Dunphy sports & his Shimano arrangement …… so lucrative was it that in the end Shimano got it back .

Chris

scottar
25-11-2018, 09:04 PM
Some one has to look after everything associated with the product - advertising, warehousing, warranty, carrying parts. No one is going to do it for free and there is no way a lot of Minn Kota dealers could afford it. If there was enough money in for MK to do it themselves they would. Take a look at the situation with BRP who have just gone the other way and appointed a distributor. As a manufacturer you simply wouldn't do it if sufficient profit existed in doing your own distribution. Our market simply isn't big enough for a lot of major corporates to do it. Furuno is another example - in the US they do it themselves, over here it's through an agent. Like I posted - I don't have an issue with people importing. But having spent 20 years in the marine game at both wholesale and retail levels, I do get a bit miffed when the inference is that the companies that offer the service of a distributor get bad mouthed for not doing it for nothing. You are always welcome to contact MK and tell them you can do a better job for half the money. They should jump at the chance to sell more units at the reduced price if you can present a suitable business model that won't implode if that's the case.

shortthenlong
25-11-2018, 09:50 PM
I think a lot of Australians underestimate the lack of size of our market (customers) and the cost of doing business here. I have worked in sales for my whole working life, self employed at that for the last 10 and the words of my first boss always stick. "The price is what the market can stand".
Matt

Lovey80
26-11-2018, 12:23 AM
Regulatory cost is huge in this country. Honk about that the next time you’re at the ballot box.

NAGG
26-11-2018, 06:57 AM
Some one has to look after everything associated with the product - advertising, warehousing, warranty, carrying parts. No one is going to do it for free and there is no way a lot of Minn Kota dealers could afford it. If there was enough money in for MK to do it themselves they would. Take a look at the situation with BRP who have just gone the other way and appointed a distributor. As a manufacturer you simply wouldn't do it if sufficient profit existed in doing your own distribution. Our market simply isn't big enough for a lot of major corporates to do it. Furuno is another example - in the US they do it themselves, over here it's through an agent. Like I posted - I don't have an issue with people importing. But having spent 20 years in the marine game at both wholesale and retail levels, I do get a bit miffed when the inference is that the companies that offer the service of a distributor get bad mouthed for not doing it for nothing. You are always welcome to contact MK and tell them you can do a better job for half the money. They should jump at the chance to sell more units at the reduced price if you can present a suitable business model that won't implode if that's the case.

A company like BLA does a lot more than sell Minn Kota's & Cannon Down riggers (eg BEP , Humminbird & Seastar) - all high profile brands…… The costs get spread over the whole business. All these costs you talk about are part & parcel of doing business & are deductions anyway ( I work for a significant manufacturing & importing business... so I get the picture) . Sponsoring everyone with some kind of profile doesn't make it a good reason to jack your prices up either.
The fact remains that it is a successful business & that is why a company like Brunswick acquired them .


Anyhow - As I said , there is a element of risk with not buying locally ( specially with Minn Kotas track record)

Chris

TREVELLY
26-11-2018, 07:11 AM
I took the risk importing Bennets trim tabs to save a fair bit - I would do it again on one of these electrics.
I would like to think if I bought it local then the price might go down but I see all too often - BOAT - Bring Out Another Thousand and it becomes cost prohibitive for me - so yes I take a risk or I go without.
As for trusting Chinese with submersible saltwater electric motors exposed to offshore pounding conditions hahahahaha :D - no thanks - maybe in years to come after others have taken that risk and they have fixed all the problems - maybe . . . .

kc
26-11-2018, 08:30 AM
Have to agree with Scott's sentiments. Yes I paid "plenty" for my Ulterra and despite all the issues they kept honouring the warantee and fixed it, and fixed it and fixed it. This time around I was done. I offered to pay a fair and reasonable amount to get it swapped and to my surprise they are giving me the new one for free. Good on BLA. They may have had a product which was ultimately unsuited for offshore use but there is no way I would ever have got that level of support from a Chinese import. You get what you pay for, and in this case, I got a level of service above and beyond expectations. Exceeding customer expectations is a key to operating a successful business so these guys deserve to be kicking a few goals.

myusernam
26-11-2018, 08:49 AM
good on BLA for doing what they legally have to? all specifically defined in australian consumer law.
There's no way i'd import a minn kota as they're so unreliable. Nothing much can go wrong with a manual outrigger

552Evo
26-11-2018, 03:28 PM
For anyone interested:
Not sure if this has been covered previously but I'll share anyway.
Motor Guide - the iX5, 72" shaft, 24volt, seems to suit my application due to it having the setup that's able to link in with Simrad/Lowrance and Mercury.
From what I can find out the Minn Kota doesn't do this link with those brands I mentioned above. Maybe it suits other brands - communications wise.
Due to my boat (centre console) I'm easily able to walk up front to manually deploy so I'll be steering towards that idea as well, it saves about $1000.
Less to go wrong as mentioned in earlier posts.
Anyway my wish list has been narrowed down, hope this helps someone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

rayken1938
27-11-2018, 06:05 AM
Minnkota and Motorguide both owned by Brunswick.
Minnkota links with Humminbird
Motorguide links with Lowrance and simrad.
BLA has their own dedicated service technicians
Motorguide serviced by some Mercury agents.
Cheers
Ray

NAGG
27-11-2018, 06:34 AM
Have to agree with Scott's sentiments. Yes I paid "plenty" for my Ulterra and despite all the issues they kept honouring the warantee and fixed it, and fixed it and fixed it. This time around I was done. I offered to pay a fair and reasonable amount to get it swapped and to my surprise they are giving me the new one for free. Good on BLA. They may have had a product which was ultimately unsuited for offshore use but there is no way I would ever have got that level of support from a Chinese import. You get what you pay for, and in this case, I got a level of service above and beyond expectations. Exceeding customer expectations is a key to operating a successful business so these guys deserve to be kicking a few goals.

I've owned (own) 4 Minn Kota's over the last 14 years …. 3 purchased locally - each of the 3 local purchases have been back to BLA more than once & yes while they are under warranty BLA have been very good ……. so I can't & wont argue the toss there.


On a side note …… & no one I know does it - you should get your leccy motor serviced every couple of years for seals & a general check over.

Chris

552Evo
28-11-2018, 01:23 PM
Who has experience with linking their trolling motor up to their MFD/Plotter/fish finder and their motor display ?

So if MK links with hummingbird and
MG links with Lowrance and Mercury, then what does this do ?

I’m interested to see what advantages you get in spending an extra $350 on an nmea cable.

If you’ve already got a MFD (hummingbird or Lowrance) then you already get a track history displayed.
What are the benefits of linking the system together ?



Saltwater fishing, boat mad but has a job that gets in the way.

Smithy
03-12-2018, 08:37 AM
^suppossed to hold better. You can scroll over marks on the plotter and hit some sort of goto and it will take you there, you can do some functions like move forward 10m or whatever and it will. This is hearsay off a mate who has a Motorguide to a small Lowrance unit. Yet to physically use one linked. Just about to take the iPilot function off my MK on my small boat and go back to a foot pedal. I don't reckon it holds good enough on GPS and I want to have both hands free for jack fishing etc. in structure. Remote control doesn't cut it in close quarters.

Nog
03-12-2018, 09:34 AM
I have my Bird linked to my MK.

When I get around to it, I'll map my local dam so I can set the MK to follow either a contour or a track I put in.

Love the spot-lock and jog function so far.

Andy56
03-12-2018, 02:46 PM
I just spent a few wasted hrs chasing up info on these bits of tech. If you want a pure vanilla motor, the alternatives to the big two are quite tempting on price. However, for these gadgets to be truly useful, you need the GPS option. And for this only the big two has it. AND only garmin or Lowrance are supported if you want to network. This means the only reason i dont have one is i cant afford it at the moment. If you think about the alternative, a drum winch, its not that expensive. In the interim, i will be buying a foam float for the anchor.

TREVELLY
03-12-2018, 05:14 PM
I just spent a few wasted hrs chasing up info on these bits of tech. If you want a pure vanilla motor, the alternatives to the big two are quite tempting on price. However, for these gadgets to be truly useful, you need the GPS option. And for this only the big two has it. AND only garmin or Lowrance are supported if you want to network. This means the only reason i dont have one is i cant afford it at the moment. If you think about the alternative, a drum winch, its not that expensive. In the interim, i will be buying a foam float for the anchor.

Yeah that worked for me too - infact I went for this before all this was invented - must be visionary "i will be buying a foam float for the anchor"

NAGG
03-12-2018, 05:59 PM
I just spent a few wasted hrs chasing up info on these bits of tech. If you want a pure vanilla motor, the alternatives to the big two are quite tempting on price. However, for these gadgets to be truly useful, you need the GPS option. And for this only the big two has it. AND only garmin or Lowrance are supported if you want to network. This means the only reason i dont have one is i cant afford it at the moment. If you think about the alternative, a drum winch, its not that expensive. In the interim, i will be buying a foam float for the anchor.

Interestingly - I had spot lock since 2011 & used it a bit in the bass & barra dams mainly - creeks for barra & jacks …… but it really didn't sink in till I used it offshore for snapper fishing - (I normally anchor & cube) …….. it really was like the penny dropping. I've only anchored when seas were too rough & the prop would blow out (54" shaft) - or I ran out of power . I upgraded to a 60" shaft & have not used an anchor in 10 months & only 2 or 3 times in 18 months. ……….

IMHO - For offshore fishing , A good sounder is #1 closely followed by a spot lock capable Leccy . clearly it has been recognised by boat builders where the leccy plate is now standard .


Chris

scottar
03-12-2018, 07:23 PM
Spot lock and more so autopilot can achieve things that an anchor is simply physically incapable of doing. Do I have them on my offshore boat - no due to them being expensive.
To
get the weight down like Chris has - ridiculously expensive and to actually install in an aesthetically appealing manner on an older design halfcab - extra ridiculously expensive so I haven't bothered. If my fishing was more structured around the use of artificials or I still had a centre console, I would have one in a heartbeat. They are an incredible fish catching tool but come at a cost for a bigger boat. I have one for my tinnie and wouldn't be without it - that's where I do most of my lure fishing.

Dignity
03-12-2018, 07:34 PM
Spot lock and more so autopilot can achieve things that an anchor is simply physically incapable of doing. Do I have them on my offshore boat - no due to them being expensive.
To
get the weight down like Chris has - ridiculously expensive and to actually install in an aesthetically appealing manner on an older design halfcab - extra ridiculously expensive so I haven't bothered. If my fishing was more structured around the use of artificials or I still had a centre console, I would have one in a heartbeat. They are an incredible fish catching tool but come at a cost for a bigger boat. I have one for my tinnie and wouldn't be without it - that's where I do most of my lure fishing.
Ditto......

TREVELLY
03-12-2018, 08:10 PM
It's definitely on my wish list - just will struggle to throw together $3k.

Have the batteries and have the boat but it would be a 80lb with a long leg

I only fish reef half the time but still wonder it's merits for deep-drop for instance

I did find it a nuisance travelling a long way to a wreck thinking worst case I will be in a line drifting it only to find a boat on top with electric then there is no chance - at least I can check these marks with radar now before wasting time and fuel

scottar
03-12-2018, 09:06 PM
One of the biggest things the electric can do that an anchor can't is the controlled drift. By utilising the basic autopilot you can basically set your drift up in any direction you wish. How many days have you fished offshore with a ripping NE to SW drift over a north south reef line - basically getting only one quick drop before having to start your engine and motor back up - if your anything like me - plenty. I use this a lot when casting lures for bream in structure oriented spots - use autopilot (basic not GPS) to set your heading very slightly across current and vary the motor speed to hold station and the boat literally "drifts" slowly sideways across the face of the structure. The same can be done when drifting offshore to take wind out of the equation and drifting the boat directly along the reef rather than across it - assuming a favourable current. If you wanted too, you could even drive the reef recording a track and follow that. Additionally, on the no run- no fun days, the motor can create a drift which may just entice something to take a bait...………….Not typing anymore or it will cost me money.

Dirtyfuzz
04-12-2018, 09:19 PM
I’d like to see the Yamaha helm master and Mercury skyhook joystick systems available across all the new outboards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

scottar
05-12-2018, 05:50 AM
I’d like to see the Yamaha helm master and Mercury skyhook joystick systems available across all the new outboards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This sort of stuff is interesting but I wonder the consequences of wear and tear on gears and shift mechanisms if used for hours on end.

NAGG
05-12-2018, 06:53 AM
Another situation that I found myself in & the spot lock function was brilliant was fishing into a wash at places like Port Stephens , South West Rocks , Coffs Hbr & Evans Head - back in the bad old days you would either sit there with motor going or anchor …… which can be pretty scary . Spot locking worked really well - I was surprised once fishing Little Island (Port Stephens) earlier this year ….. the seas were pumping but found with the combination of backwash & spotlock I was able to have a nice session on tailor / kings & snapper - there was no way I would have anchored .
Another situation is fishing a FAD & spotlocking ….. up current & drifting baits back for dollies / kings - Generally you can only drift these FADs because of depth & currents .

Chris

TREVELLY
05-12-2018, 06:54 AM
I think the real pluses for an electric keeping you over the fish is time in hit zone plus time not spent driving back to hit zone and the latter comes with wear and tear on the motor as well.

A battery and little electric is a darn sight cheaper than motor plus services.

And as has been said the increase in catch rate is estimated as 3 times for some anglers

fishing111
20-07-2019, 09:25 AM
Was giving one of these some serious thought however I'm wondering if these Minn Kota's are still having unacceptable failure rates in the Ulterra models?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlkF048zsR0

Crunchy
20-07-2019, 10:07 AM
I think the real pluses for an electric keeping you over the fish is time in hit zone plus time not spent driving back to hit zone and the latter comes with wear and tear on the motor as well.

A battery and little electric is a darn sight cheaper than motor plus services.

And as has been said the increase in catch rate is estimated as 3 times for some anglers

OK thanks TJ, so quick calculattion for me is 3 x 0 = 0, I might get one!