Four stroke back to two stroke

[The optimist]

Anyone ever gone back to a two stroke after owning a four stroke?

[Fed]

Mercruiser back to 2 stroke does that help?

[Noelm]

It would be hard to do I reckon.

[aussiebasser]

I had both for a while, and damn that little 15HP Merc (American) stunk.

[LittleSkipper]

Seriously! Why revert from a 2 too a 4 then revert back from a 4 to a 2? Two strokes might be great on torque but they smoke (old carby model I'm referring to) there shit on fuel consumption, noisy at high rpm and can be very temperamental when starting.


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[Harmytage]

Well technically I fit into this category, I had a mercury two stroke on a tinnie that blew up , I then replaced this with a 40Hp four stroke Yamaha.
about a year after that I upgraded to a larger boat (second hand) that has a 150 Etec on the back so I have gone 2 stroke to four and back to to 2 stroke.
In my opinion I would have preferred that I had a 150 four stroke as opposed to a smart 2 stroke but beggars cant be choosers.
I still have the tinnie with the 40 hp on the back and its an awesome little motor the only problem is its so quiet I have tried to start an already running engine a few times.

[The optimist]

I have purchased a new boat and now deciding on the motor. I would prefer a four stroke but unfortunately on a budget and may have to opt for a two stroke. I am also of the opinion I may not recoup the thousands difference in fuel savings.

[stevej]

never had a issue starting any 2 stroke i owned and that would be over 20 engines from early 70s seahorses to new yamaha 30hp 3 cyclidners and everything in between
good servicing clean fuel and clean carbs and never a issue

ive just bought my first 4 stroke a 50hp yamaha tiller and loving the no oil in the mix an smooth idling etc
noise has never worried me enough to make it a concern



use what you can afford
there is no point upgrading to a four stroke if you have a older 2 stroke and dont do a lot of hours
50-100 hours a year the fuel savings do not off set the purchase price

[Harmytage]

One other point that can be forgotten is the cost of the oil associated with a 2 stroke, on my Etec its $85 for a gallon and I seem to need to fill the reservoir up on a fairly regular basis . Probably around every 300-400 L of fuel uses a gallon of oil depending on what speed I am doing.
its one thing to get 170 fuel and have a full tank of petrol its another to spend $170 and get 8L of oil!

[Noelm]

as the old argument goes, you can put in a bit at a time, or change it all at once with a filter, and have to get rid of the old oil to land fill, your choice....

[grumpysmurf]

Mercruiser back to 2 stroke does that help?


Same here! I downsized from a Twin Mercruiser 4.3 V6 to a 150hp Mercury 2-stroke. Annual service & repair cost went down from $9000 to $300 :o That is mostly due to the fact that the outboard is on a trailer out of the water.

[Willkerr]

I have a Yamaha 150HP HPDI 2 stroke and starts like a dream every time even after sitting for a month or two. Has heaps of tourque and runs pretty quiet. Previously had a honda 4 carby model and always had issues with the carbies.

[FisHard]

It depends a bit if you're talking about an injected 2 stroke? If not, Hmmm, I reckon it would be really hard to go back from a four stroke! Keep in mind that boats with 2 strokes are much more difficult to sell, so when that time comes you will recoup the extra cost of the four. Combine that with superior fuel consumption, range, no oil use and the fact that modern four strokes are lovely in all running, and for my money, it's a no brainer.

[Giffo65]

As Fishard said, I am on my second four stroke and love them, quiet, no smell, troll for ages and no worries, cheap on juice.In saying that ,just bought a tinnie with a 25 Yammy 2 banger for a song, reliable old donk.

[ReefRobber]

I could never go back. My new 225hp Yamaha V6 offshore uses very little more fuel than my 4 year old 2 stroke merc did.

[The optimist]

Thanks to all whom commented,all very helpful

[ReefRobber]

I should have said that my 2 stroke was a 75 on a much much smaller boat

[robothefisho]

Have owned both and still wouldn't hesitate buying a boat with a carby two stroke if buying second hand. Buying new in bigger boats youd be crazy as resale would suffer badly. All the talk about quite four strokes and no fumes I'm yet to find one which isn't just as bloody noisey and doesn't stink when the winds blowing fumes back in the boat or no wind and it gets sucked back in. Are they quite at idle sure, at cruise no. I still haven't found a fourstroke with anywhere near 2 stroke punch. They are also a bloody pain to prop correctly. Expensive to service. Don't tolerate old fuel. I still think there is a place for carb two smokers on recreational boats which are seldom used or looked after.

[Noelm]

Quite a few rather uninformed comment/Internet myths there rob....

[Dogtoooth]

I had MERC Bigfoot 60hp 2 stroke, bulletproof, great out of the hole, ok on fuel. Now I have a Suzuki DF90A bolted on, better on fuel, burning 10ltrs hour doing 35klm hour. Invest in a four stroke you'll be glad you did.

[myusernam]

i had a tiller 60 yammy on a v15 haines for a short time. i love the yammy but it was too heavy. I would need flotation pods or something on the stern. got a manual tohatsu 50 thats near on half the wieght and it's awesome. boat sits and rides so much better. I sold the yammy for $6k and bought the rough on the outside 50 for $695. It's nice under the cowl and goes like stink. I dont have to baby it or polish it, it doesnt get clogged up with mud, doesnt need a battery or oil or filter changes. absolutely minimal maintenance. fuel use on low hp not so much of an issue and i run around at close to WOT with both so fuel usage not so different .

[bonneville]

Have owned both and still wouldn't hesitate buying a boat with a carby two stroke if buying second hand. Buying new in bigger boats youd be crazy as resale would suffer badly. All the talk about quite four strokes and no fumes I'm yet to find one which isn't just as bloody noisey and doesn't stink when the winds blowing fumes back in the boat or no wind and it gets sucked back in. Are they quite at idle sure, at cruise no. I still haven't found a fourstroke with anywhere near 2 stroke punch. They are also a bloody pain to prop correctly. Expensive to service. Don't tolerate old fuel. I still think there is a place for carb two smokers on recreational boats which are seldom used or looked after.
I don't think there's to much of internet myths going on there noelm, just someones opinion
infact he has quite a few points there that are acknowledged as correct
I don't agree that there as noisey as a two stroke not at idle, haven't had to much of an issue with propping one ( yet )
i'll agree too from my experience that all my 2 strokers to date have had far more punch.
but the service cost factor and more succeptable to crook fuel over a 2 stroke " can" be correct, the rest is his personal opinion
might not be yours, but would be better to actually explain why their myths in a post, rather than coming off like a bit of a @@@
I agree with you robo, that 2 strokes have a place in older boats ! the milage some boaties do just don't warrant the expense.
The new 4 strokes being produced at the minute are cutting down the gap in "punch" as you described, but the cost factor in repowering or buying a boat with a 4 stroke can be an issue. An example of this is the new merc 115 4 stroke, out performing the 125 opti in just about every area tested. And one clear point that came out of that was that there was bugga all audible difference at wide open throttle between the two.
so you certainly weren't spruking internet myths there robo, that was a fact, from the recent testing with streaker boats.
just my 2 cents worth

bonneville

[FisHard]

So, did you do the test on the Opti and four stroke, or did you read it on the Internet? Just curious, because you seem pretty quick to jump on Noelms post, so I assume you've personally experienced all 2 and four stroke motors. Otherwise, you'd just be repeating what you've read...

[robothefisho]

Quite a few rather uninformed comment/Internet myths there rob....

Comments formed by real world experience. Not shared by many these days though. It's simple really, I prefer driving two strokes over four strokes. Still wouldn't buy a new two stroke though.

[Tangles]

Interesting question, also at what horsepower does a 4 stroke really start to make sense? the 40 or 50 class and above?

and the useage i suppose is relevant, ie does a 4 stroke make sense for a little tender or a basic estuary boat, it certainly does for the bigger models and sports boats for impoundments etc. Im a great fan of 4 strokes but am still considering a 2 stroke for an estuary boat against a 4 stroke and im finding it 50/50, its hard to justify the extra coin of the 4 stroke as its just going to be a pretty basic tinny for prawning/crabs.

[bonneville]

So, did you do the test on the Opti and four stroke, or did you read it on the Internet? Just curious, because you seem pretty quick to jump on Noelms post, so I assume you've personally experienced all 2 and four stroke motors. Otherwise, you'd just be repeating what you've read...
jumped on noelm post because he offered NOTHING as he bounced robo
never said I had experienced all 2 strokes or 4 strokes, that's your fabrication

had an opinion from over 48 years of boat ownership, with some 10-12 boats over that time, with both 2-4 stroke and stern drive

yes, we are a month out since swapping a friends boat from the opti to the new 4 stroke ! performance details available if you want them ?
google the streaker boat test with the opti and the 4 stroke, watch it yourself, the owner of streaker boats was driving one of the test boats.

don't know a lot about Honda's, had the Yamaha, johnstone, evinrude's mercury's Suzuki's, but cant find anywhere that I said I knew everything about every motor ! only the ones ive owned, or had anything to do with and that would only be my opinions.
worked as a young fella in my uncles out board repair shop, was a dealer for evinrude back in the mid 70's, know my way around an engine I suppose !
hope that settles your curiousity fishard ?
ooops, forgot to mention I did my marine engine apprentiship at my uncles shop, was in the trade for around 20 years.
might come off as a bit condescending fishard, appologies for that, but you and noelm have both replied to other peoples opinion by trying to belittle their actual experience and intelligence, you need to pull your heads in ! don't know if its the forums little "big boys " smack down or whatever, I enjoy reading usefull replies and peoples honest opinions, whether we thing there wrong or not, doesn't need to replied back in a derogatory manner.....

again its only my opinion
bonneville

[FisHard]

Good luck with your new motor, I hope it's as good as you've read about.

[Noelm]

Jesus,this has turned out nice, no wonder this place is getting less and less posts,no one can disagree on something without it going down the drain. In answer to Robthefisho/Bonneville
Have owned both Me too, and for a very long time, in fact I have owned all 3 common operating principals,that being carbed 2 strokes, DFI 2 strokes, and EFI 4 strokes,in various HP, so I think that quantifies ‘real world” and still wouldn't hesitate buying a boat with a carby two stroke if buying second hand. Small motor/boat, yes agree. Buying new in bigger boats youd be crazy as resale would suffer badly. Depending on the motor itself, 2 stroke label covers a big range. All the talk about quite four strokes and no fumes I'm yet to find one which isn't just as bloody noisey, totally disagree and doesn't stink when the winds blowing fumes back in the boat or no wind and itgets sucked back in. There is fumes, the motor burns petrol, it has fumes, but compared to an old 2 stroke? Totally disagree. Are they quite at idle sure, at cruise no. Yes I still haven't found a four stroke with anywhere near 2 stroke punch. Totally disagree, and real world experience,2 sets of 90HP 2 strokes on the same boat, repowered with 4 strokes, heaps more power and better cruise.(don’t believe all you read in OLD tests or internet myths) They are also a bloody pain to prop correctly. No idea where that comes from, completely untrue. Expensive to service. This comes upall the time, by the time oil consumed over time is factored in, the total costto own either operating principal comes out very close to being even. Don't tolerate old fuel. If you can find a motor that runs on bad fuel, or half water, then you’re going to be very rich, that is just nonsense. I still think there is a place for carb two smokers on recreational boats which are seldom used or looked after. Completely agree.

[Noelm]

jumped on noelm post because he offered NOTHING as he bounced robo
never said I had experienced all 2 strokes or 4 strokes, that's your fabrication

had an opinion from over 48 years of boat ownership, with some 10-12 boats over that time, with both 2-4 stroke and stern drive

yes, we are a month out since swapping a friends boat from the opti to the new 4 stroke ! performance details available if you want them ?
google the streaker boat test with the opti and the 4 stroke, watch it yourself, the owner of streaker boats was driving one of the test boats.

don't know a lot about Honda's, had the Yamaha, johnstone, evinrude's mercury's Suzuki's, but cant find anywhere that I said I knew everything about every motor ! only the ones ive owned, or had anything to do with and that would only be my opinions.
worked as a young fella in my uncles out board repair shop, was a dealer for evinrude back in the mid 70's, know my way around an engine I suppose !
hope that settles your curiousity fishard ?
ooops, forgot to mention I did my marine engine apprentiship at my uncles shop, was in the trade for around 20 years.
might come off as a bit condescending fishard, appologies for that, but you and noelm have both replied to other peoples opinion by trying to belittle their actual experience and intelligence, you need to pull your heads in ! don't know if its the forums little "big boys " smack down or whatever, I enjoy reading usefull replies and peoples honest opinions, whether we thing there wrong or not, doesn't need to replied back in a derogatory manner.....

again its only my opinion
bonneville

factory OMC trained myself, so I probably know my way around a 2 stroke as well, but that has very little to do with what has been stated, neither does how many years I have owned boats or how many I have owned, and that's only MY opinion, you see, we can both have an opinion, and it doesn't have to be the same opinion does it? Best go read your own reply to see what a derogatory reply can be, especially the bits "bit of a @@@" and "pull your heads in"

[LittleSkipper]

Well, this post certainly has become a you know, I know more than you I'm a factory trained yahoo. I think you guys need to take a few chill pills?

I'm currently having my 4.8 Poly re-powered with the new Mercury 80hp four stroke and the fact of the matter is a can't bloody wait to get it back. ( it's been a long week)
My boat was originally powered by a Mercury Carb oil injected 2 stroke and while it is fantastic on torque they are shit on fuel consumption, blow smoke like a friggen cigar, don't like cold starts and stall when you put the hammer down. Just to name a few.
So when I get my boat back repowered with a clean, more fuel efficient efi outboard and start when I want it to outboard I'll let you all know. Oh! And I'm not a factory trained my head is bigger than yours Yahoo. Just a real world experience consumer product civilian.


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[Noelm]

No need for any chill pills or anything else, we can all offer advice and opinions, and we can all have different opinions, that's what it's all about, debate is what brings things to light that other wise wouldn't be.

[LittleSkipper]

No need for any chill pills or anything else, we can all offer advice and opinions, and we can all have different opinions, that's what it's all about, debate is what brings things to light that other wise wouldn't be.

Fair enough! Yes! I Agree. I'll leave the chill pills in the medicine cabinet for the time being. But I'll be whipping them out the next time someone says there a factory trained OMC Yahoo. Blah! Blah! Blah! [emoji2]


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[juggernaut]

we can all offer advice and opinions, and we can all have different opinions, that's what it's all about, debate is what brings things to light that other wise wouldn't be.

Opinions are like a$$holes....everyone has one. The difference being some opinions have credibility whilst others less so.

And that's not a slur on you Noelm, but merely a comment, as I generally respect your opinions on various matters in these threads.

[Noelm]

Interesting question, also at what horsepower does a 4 stroke really start to make sense? the 40 or 50 class and above?

and the useage i suppose is relevant, ie does a 4 stroke make sense for a little tender or a basic estuary boat, it certainly does for the bigger models and sports boats for impoundments etc. Im a great fan of 4 strokes but am still considering a 2 stroke for an estuary boat against a 4 stroke and im finding it 50/50, its hard to justify the extra coin of the 4 stroke as its just going to be a pretty basic tinny for prawning/crabs.
To be 100% honest, I don't think it's a matter of making sense, or looking at better fuel economy or any of those things, truth is, you would probably never get your added cost back if you got a 4 stroke over an old carby 2 stroke, but the simple fact is, the 4 stroke is so much better to own and operate, simple turn key starts, no warm up throttles and pushing keys in or flipping up switches, no roaring its head off after starting just to keep the thing running, smooth idle for hours on end, little noise if flushing late at night, the list just goes on and on, modern 4 strokes are just so much better in terms of the "over all experience" (in my opinion)

[aussiebasser]

I'm happy with all facets of my Verado. Injection is good, but I'd prefer to be blown.

[juggernaut]

Old article on the relative comparisons. Obviously technology has changed since.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pauldawson/Iame24-4strokes.pdf

[Noelm]

yeah, that's a pretty old article now.

[bonneville]

noelm, great reply posts, I agree with pretty well all you are saying. just wished you'd replied like that in your first post, that's all.
it was and has been interesting on the actual test comparing opti to the new merc 115 about the fact there's not a lot of audible difference between the two at cruise and wide open, ive always experienced the 4 strokes as quieter all round.
my appologies to everyone if my post seemed like " ive done this" however fishards reply to me was indeed with the pounding chest indicating I had no experience and purely got my info from the internet !and his second one was the same tone. as I said, everyone has opinions, if a guy recons he can smell 4 strokes just as much as two strokes, well I honestly don't know how, but he's entitled to say that.
2 stroke oil certainly adds to the running cost of a 2 stroke, but I feel it was still less than the overall service costs of a 4 stroke, mine were always done by the dealer until warranty expired then I serviced them myself, huge cost saving..
noelm, interesting comments on power comparisons, im the opposite to date, haven't managed to own a 4 stroke with the power between the two being comparative, always found until recently, that 2 strokes just had that edge on hole shot, and low down punch, the only other first hand of similar "ish" comparison, was the re power about 3-4 years ago, from the old 140 suk 2 stroke to the new merc 150 4 stroke, on a mates boat I regularly fished out of Portland out wide, probably not a true comparison, but the merc 150 was like night and day in respect to performance when fitted,in every aspect, even taking into account the considerable weight difference. So that's certainly attributed to new developments with the newer 4 strokes. I have a love hate with my current 2 stroke, as is why now with another first hand ( not internet) experience of a swap as previously mentioned, I will soon be swapping out for the new merc 115. That decision changed from what I intended on doing, which was putting a 140 suzuki 4 stroke on her, but I met up with a guy locally with the same boat and managed to do some comparisons with his and mine, my 125 salt water, absolutely p@ssed all over 140, in both hole shot and top end by some 9 k's, just didn't want to loose that much performance on my hull, hence the keen interest on a mates swap out with the merc 115, on a similar, but admittingly different hull.
Its an interesting topic and one that when performance comparissons are available from first hand experience, should be put up for others to see, that's if it doesn't prick some peoples ego !!

For me, I'd settle for the 2 banger I have on at the minute if I was containing my fishing locally, but going out wide there's simply no comparison at all to having the economy of a 4 stroke on the back......


again, just my opinion on everything
bonneville

[LittleSkipper]

If a bloke can smell four stroke fumes just like a two stroke he must have his nostrils fair up the exhaust outlets. Wouldn't modern four stroke outboards give off that rotten egg smell like you get from a standard motor vehicle? The difference being the exhaust is through the prop underwater so you wouldn't smell too much would you?


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[Noelm]

yes, you do smell the exhaust, no you don't get the rotten egg smell, the motor burns petrol plain and simple, it has to have fumes or its stopped... BUT it is nothing like an old 2 stroke in any way shape or form, or like a modern DFI motor either, even though they are not smoky, they have a distinct burnt oil "smell"

[bonneville]

[QUOTE=LittleSkipper;1578573]If a bloke can smell four stroke fumes just like a two stroke he must have his nostrils fair up the exhaust outlets. Wouldn't modern four stroke outboards give off that rotten egg smell like you get from a standard motor vehicle? The difference being the exhaust is through the prop underwater so you wouldn't smell too much would you?

well, that's putting it bluntly ! LOL
ive only ever had a wiff from a 4 stroke while lake trolling, on a perfectly still hot day, and even then, had to think about it.
out on the ocean I would have thought you'd be hard pressed at the best of time !
ive never had a 2 stroke, for which I'd say it ever bothered me, or that had excessive smoke, but it definitely is there, and in certain situations
can be quite visible. probably the most problematic 2 stroke ive owned was in the early 90's an old triple merc 90hp, now if you got the priming procedure at the key, wrong on that motor, she sure used to bellow out a toxic slick of fumes, generally when the kids or mates were at the helm. I'd probably suggest with a 4 stroke, that their was issues with a motor if it was ever as noticeable as mentioned... but I wont go there ! lol

bonneville

[Dan5]

Well I have owned 5 fourstroke outboards and have done a lot of fishing/working with them over the years and 1 of those engines I personally put over 4700hrs on and I don't recall once ever smelling any fumes from any of them...........And that would be in roughly 10,000 hrs of using 4 stroke out boards.......Honda,Mercury,Suzuki,Yamaha.........B een for a run in 3 modern dfi 2strokes and could smell oil with both......HDPI 200 Yamaha,175 E-tec and 75 E-tec.......both were smelly but not smokey.
I had a 90 2 stroke Yamaha and let me tell you about starting that old bastard after a month or so sitting around........Should have called the boat Deep Purple.

Dan

[aussiebasser]

I used to love the smell of Belray in my motorbike, but not so much the Zoom 50 in the outboards.

[bonneville]

I used to love the smell of Belray in my motorbike, but not so much the Zoom 50 in the outboards.
That made me chuckle a bit, mainly because of your mention of motorbikes !
apologies in advance this is totally off topic.
currently rebuilding a 70's triumph engine, which looked like it was running on belray, before the strip down !
as per another recent thread, re ethanol content in petrol concern, Im currently dealing with the same issues with this piece of british iron, modern fuels and oils have totally wrecked this engine, which was simply not designed to run on either. The engine runs with a centrifical sludge tube thru the crank, which any modern detergent oil has a devastating effect on, and similar results as a boat engine with regard to higher ethanol count. Guess we must be a tad luckier in Victoria, ( so far ) not to many pumps at the bowser have ethanol additive ( or that we are told ), but just another sign of the times I suppose.........


bonneville

[ozynorts]

Guess we must be a tad luckier in Victoria, ( so far ) not to many pumps at the bowser have ethanol additive ( or that we are told ), but just another sign of the times I suppose.........


bonneville

We may have a problem in Qld soon as the 2 Katter MP's are demanding 10% ethanol in all petrol and those two appear destined to decide which side takes power....

[bonneville]

yep, that was the thread I was referencing ozy, yes !
geez, outside of outboard motors, that would be a few classic and veteran bikes I'd be using as show pieces if that ever happened down here.
I know its a big big issue with old brit bikes in the blighty as well, but im picking at the end of the day, we might, or at least engine manufacturers in the near future are going to have to make the appropriate changes if it carries on, haven't honestly put much grey matter to the problem as yet, as not so much of an issue down here, but then again, it only takes one state, then the rest follow like sheep if there's a dollar to be made.
hmmm, hope for u guys up there that the "katters" don't get there way.......

bonneville

[The optimist]

Well I have owned 5 fourstroke outboards and have done a lot of fishing/working with them over the years and 1 of those engines I personally put over 4700hrs on and I don't recall once ever smelling any fumes from any of them...........And that would be in roughly 10,000 hrs of using 4 stroke out boards.......Honda,Mercury,Suzuki,Yamaha.........B een for a run in 3 modern dfi 2strokes and could smell oil with both......HDPI 200 Yamaha,175 E-tec and 75 E-tec.......both were smelly but not smokey.
I had a 90 2 stroke Yamaha and let me tell you about starting that old bastard after a month or so sitting around........Should have called the boat Deep Purple.

Dan
What would your pick be out of all the four strokes you have owned Dan??

[Dan5]

What would your pick be out of all the four strokes you have owned Dan??

The out board I ran up 4700hrs with was a Suzuki 70hp 1999 model........one of the first of the series with EFI........I was a fishing guide at the time and a hell of a lot of those hours were idleing/trolling.

In that time I remeber replacing a regulator/rectifier.....two trim solenoids and did a gearbox toward the end of owning it but I had done 2-3 alloy props due to hitting rockbars etc....(nature of the game up here).

It never failed to get me home,in fact no fourstroke I've owned has ever failed to get me home..........I had a good run from that 70 Suzy and did a lot of time on the water with it......it was on a 4.85 pressed boat it was a good match up had plenty of bottom end grunt to get 3 guys and all their fuel and gear up and going and very good on fuel.

Dan

[goona]

I have purchased a new boat and now deciding on the motor. I would prefer a four stroke but unfortunately on a budget and may have to opt for a two stroke. I am also of the opinion I may not recoup the thousands difference in fuel savings.

I think you will find there is more than just recouping the fuel costs. It also is a lot quieter, you get better range, no smoke, no oils to mix, better for the environment, probably catch more fish LOL. I have changed from a 15hp Johno to a 20 Honda and I would never go back. They are like chalk and cheese. Granted the cost was more but the benefits are more than worth the extra cost

Goona

[Bustedoff]

The out board I ran up 4700hrs with was a Suzuki 70hp 1999 model

Dan

thats good to hear. I've got an ex commercial Yamaha F115 with 2800 hours on it. It still runs really well, I was thinking of swapping it out for a new engine next year, but maybe it will go for a long time yet. Same deal as your Suzuki, mostly trolling hours, but in a Mackeral boat out of Mooloolaba.