Chasing Fibreglass Experts - Pod/Hull Extension - Haines 213c Rebuild

[mustang5]

Hey guys,

I have the old Haines 213c In my possession after a few beers and deal talking paved way to a very insanely cheap deal for a 213c Haines.

The plan is to do the following:

- Cut out Splashwell
- Construct Pod Structure from Existing Transom. Pod Structure will be full hull width and same shape.
- Pod Structure will be bolted to transom, and then also glassed in on external edges.
- Build in full transom
- Install a nice heavy four stroke outboard to make use of the extra bouyancy.

Questions or tips from the experts are as follows:

POD:
- What sort of fibreglass layup should I target with the pod structure?? I am currently targeting 3-4 layers of 10 ounce??
- POD will be 2ft Long and will be holding an F225 or similar, which weighs 260-270kg
- What sort of thickness of glass??
- The plan is to form a mould by using corrugated plastic screwed to the existing hull and propped and supported. I will then form the pods external glass.
- From there I will then brace the internals and transom section with the necessary PLY structure and internal glassing. I am thinking 17mm front face glassed and encapsulated, then a transom of 38mm ply.

CONNECTION:
- Once the pod is complete, I plan to connect the pod to the existing transom using a number of Stainless Bolts and washers.
- I will then have rounded corners meeting the existing hull. I will bevel the glass on both the pod and existing hull and then glass together prior to re-gelcoating the entire boat.

The finished product should be a custom looking rear end on a Haines and not look like a pod. Heres to hoping.

Other tasks for the rebuild include:
- Build custom seat boxes with all the leftover glass & Gelcoat (EASY)
- Have new windscreen installed
- Have clears installed
- Construct Fibreglass Baitboard.

Will get some more pics soon. However if anyone could give me some technical advise that would be much appreciated.

Cheers


104944104945

[Noelm]

Not too sure why you would bolt the pod on, then glass it, why not leave it as removable? you can buy glass pods ready to bolt on, but not a full bottom shape of course, if I remember correctly they are/were advertised by both a Victorian and a NSW distributer in a boats for sale magazine.

[mustang5]

Thanks mate. I was just thinking aesthetically for glassing the outside. The reason behind also bolting is that I would not have to remove the existing transom and undertake a traditional hull extension.

I've looked at the off the shelf pods but thinking of hanging a 4 stroke outboard 2ft behind the existing transom makes me picture a boat pointing to the moon in the water haha.


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[Vitamin Sea]

Hi

Have a look at this thread http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?119886-Pod-or-not-to-pod!-BIG-QUESTION!&highlight=hull+extension, particularly at Garry's post.

The 213C in the photo belongs to is a mate of his and is running a 225 off the back of it, flawless (the extension) from what I understand, a fella at Jacobs well did the job.

May get some ideas?

Cheers

Bill

[CT]

What happened to the cat project?

[mustang5]

Pulled the pin mate when I saw she had a blind man do some hull repairs


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[Casey Ison]

mate if your going to the effort to put the full height transom in wouldn't you be better off pulling the old transom out and putting a full new one in? no doubt it will be pretty shagged? my old boy has a hains 213 c in great condition been garaged its whole life and the transom is soft in it and its a lot better condition then this one? just a thought anyway. then maybe you could do the whole stringer extension and have it all done in one?

great boat mate will follow your posts cant wait to see it, we are doing the same to his in the coming years.

[mustang5]

Thanks Casey. Cosmetically she's a bit down, however I've checked the transom and stringers and I'm as surprised as you are, dry as a bone


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[damien9956]

hiya I did one awhile back a bit different to what your planning but if you want have a look on youtube under boat pod , its the green one , mite give you ideas or tips ..

[Michael Sharp]

Hey mate I seen a fully refurbished 213c at Bayside Marine on Tues and it had a brand new 225 suzi on the arse with a full shape alloy pod, looked sweet. The guys at bayside could tell you every thing u need to know about the changes to the boat.

[upstart]

There's one on gum tree too.


Ben of Upstart

[gofishin]

Hey mate I seen a fully refurbished 213c at Bayside Marine on Tues and it had a brand new 225 suzi on the arse with a full shape alloy pod, looked sweet. The guys at bayside could tell you every thing u need to know about the changes to the boat.If it was a white top over a dark blue hull, that's a recently 're-launched' PBA boat, I think rebuilt by the same guy as Garry originally referred to in Vitamin's link above - as the pods look very similar.
Cheers
Brendon

[heoheo]

If it was a white top over a dark blue hull, that's a recently 're-launched' PBA boat, I think rebuilt by the same guy as Garry originally referred to in Vitamin's link above - as the pods look very similar.
Cheers
Brendon

would that be Bayside suzuki? and Brendon its Purple not dark blue, you should know that ;D
Adam Milner is the boat builder you need to contact. He is snowed under with work, but i cannot fault his enthusiasim or workmanship. He is definatley worth the wait.. 0404050310104996104997104998

[gofishin]

....and Brendon its Purple not dark blue..., you should know that ;D... Damn, I'm colourblind too...:'(

Nah, that's not purple, did you see my last boat H? ;D

[mustang5]

Hey guys,

Big weekend ahead.

My shopping list this week :)
105095


Plan this weekend to have the boat stripped, sanded, splashwell removed & the mould of the hull built.

For the mould, I will be continuing the shape of the Hull & sides using corrugated plastic, covered in tinfoil and then glassed for the mould. Plan to have the skin for the pod/extension complete this weekend, fingers crossed.

In the meantime, I really need to find someone who can do me a nice windscreen/clears combo to match in with the custom hardtop. ATM prices coming back are just too expensive. Will keep shopping around.I also have plans to create a seat box mould using ply, and also a large bait board & overhead compartments using clay moulding... Fun fun fun!!

For the colour Scheme, Black on the sides, white below the waterline and white cabin and top.

Technical Questions:

- I need to calculate the potential issues caused by the extra buoyancy of the hull extension. Before I go re-learning calculus, is there a general rule of thumb?? I will be adding 2ft to the hull and full width and full height to the sides. This will in turn give me 4ft extra useable (Standable) space with the removed splashwell.

- CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT SORT OF FIBREGLASS LAYUP I SHOULD BE AIMING FOR, FOR THE POD??

I plan to have the skin laid up, then will be building a 50-70mm transom using structural ply (3x17mm) and 17mm stringers flowing on from the existing transom. My main concern is the thickness in which the fibreglass should be?? Or how many g/m2 is acceptable? Or how many layers of Xg/m2 cloth?

- What sort of Cloth should I target?? 198g cloth or 300+g??

- When I flowcoat the existing boat, can anyone tell me if flowcoat will bond to mild steel (Hardtop)?

Thanks Guys.

[mustang5]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/aga9uneb.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/a7e2e6eb.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/a4ejery6.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/ahyqe8e6.jpg

Supplies picked up.

Splashwell removed. Amazing how much room that frees up.

Transom in pretty good condition for it's age. Good peace of mind moving forward.

Time to start building a mould for the extension.


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[sharkcat 23]

Mustang,
Another vote for Adam Milnes, the gent is very good at what he does and a really nice bloke to deal and talk with, I had to wait 6 months to get my cat in there so that must tell you something. I'm sure he wouldn't mind answering any questions you might have if you get stuck.
Good luck with the project mate.
Doug

[mustang5]

Big weekend planned. Have the mould setup and now just sorting out the best way to do the outer skin of the mould.

Tried a few test spots for the flow coat. 1 was with the brush and sand method, and the second was with the roller. Both not very good, so I will be testing the new spray gun I purchased this weekend.

Looking forward to providing more updates :)

If theres any fibreglass gurus that could answer my questions above, would be much appreciated.

[Chimo]

Have you seen these comments ? Not sure if they are a help but for what its worth ............ http://www.fishnet.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=112773&f=8

Cheers
Chimo

[Rip it up]

Hey mustang where are located?


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Hey mustang where are located?


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

Located at Redbank Plains in Brissy these days mate. No longer in Gladstone.

[hainsofast]

Bedwank stains mate, get it right LOL

[mustang5]

Bedwank stains mate, get it right LOL

Haha its not far off lmao!!!

Needed somewhere cheap to rent whilst the house is getting built! Trust me, its CHEAP!! haha

[Rip it up]

No worries mustang. I remembered you were nearby I thought it would easier to see it the type it.


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[Rip it up]

The lay up schedule would depend on the flat surface area of the largest unsupported panel.
Basically between the old and new transom and the new stringers.

My opinion is that the choice of cloth is a big factor. Your 198 & 300 gsm is really light. Sure it can be layered up but 3x as slow.

I would be looking for some woven rovings or heavy double bias at 900gsm + for the bulking up of the panels.

Corners can get the tapered 300gsm layup, staggered from large overlaps down to small tape runs. A radius of qcells or cabosil halfway through wouldn't hurt.




Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Thanks mate. Got 30m of 600g roven woving. ATM I'm looking at going the following:

1. Gelcoat layer in mould
2. Chopped strand mat
3. 198g cloth
4. Roven woving
5. 198g cloth
6. Roven woving

Now, is it best to apply after fully cured or when each layer is tacky?

Additionally, I will simply be following on from the existing stringers connected to two 18mm sheets of ply at existing transom, and to 3x18mm ply at new transom.


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[Rip it up]

Will the new stringers be passing through the old transom and get lap joined 300/400mm inside? Heavily glued/screwed/glassed over the join. Epoxy glue is a good idea.

For the layup using polyester heat is the killer. So heavy layups become a problem for the thermal heat generated to the bottom layers. They can cause major air voids/ delam issues if they are laid down to thick. So I aim for 3/4layers max and a Slow brew. Lay up in the cool times of the day. Out of direct sunlight.

I would be aiming to produce a laminate 6mm thick. And I think you will need a few more layers to create that. Chop strand I between cloth and woven should come out pretty close.
Try to match the original hull thickness. Look at any skin fittings for the original lay up thickness. Bilge pumps, through hull pickups etc.


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Will the new stringers be passing through the old transom and get lap joined 300/400mm inside? Heavily glued/screwed/glassed over the join. Epoxy glue is a good idea.

For the layup using polyester heat is the killer. So heavy layups become a problem for the thermal heat generated to the bottom layers. They can cause major air voids/ delam issues if they are laid down to thick. So I aim for 3/4layers max and a Slow brew. Lay up in the cool times of the day. Out of direct sunlight.

I would be aiming to produce a laminate 6mm thick. And I think you will need a few more layers to create that. Chop strand I between cloth and woven should come out pretty close.
Try to match the original hull thickness. Look at any skin fittings for the original lay up thickness. Bilge pumps, through hull pickups etc.


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

Was hoping not to go through existing transom, mainly bolt up to the existing like a traditional pod. The only difference is this traditional pod will also be glassed matched in to the sides and bottom of the hull. Another thing I liked was that the entire pod area would be its own encapsulated waterproof section. Would it be necessary to join the stringers?

[Rip it up]

Hmm bolt up pod,,,,,
Well the 2x 18mm you speak of, I'm guessing will be piece bolted to the existing transom?

It is bound to flex somewhere. And unless you tapered back the old transom/hull edge 1ft and relay a heavy overlapping joint to the old hull, you will get hairline cracks at minimum on that bolt up section.

Think of bolts moving in the drilled holes. Etc.

Not that I'm saying it's impossible. But to remove all flex might be hard to achieve.

Bolt on pods would be sealed will sika and allow to move a little on each bolt, but they have no areas "glassed" to the hull which would show cracks.





Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Hmm bolt up pod,,,,,
Well the 2x 18mm you speak of, I'm guessing will be piece bolted to the existing transom?

It is bound to flex somewhere. And unless you tapered back the old transom/hull edge 1ft and relay a heavy overlapping joint to the old hull, you will get hairline cracks at minimum on that bolt up section.

Think of bolts moving in the drilled holes. Etc.

Not that I'm saying it's impossible. But to remove all flex might be hard to achieve.

Bolt on pods would be sealed will sika and allow to move a little on each bolt, but they have no areas "glassed" to the hull which would show cracks.





Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

Thanks mate, I see your point. Looks like I have a bit of thinking to do.

[Pazz01]

Hey Mate

Keen to hear the progress of your rebuild. Considering putting a hull extension pod on our 635L in the future. Keen to get some thoughts/ideas on performance etc.

Cheers
Pazz

[mustang5]

Hey Pazz,

Been stuck between ideas mate. And the biggest indecision is going full hull extension VS just a pod with a diveboard...

A lot more detail in the full extension which = a lot more work.. Just trying to figure out if the extra effort is worth the benefit??

Option 1 - Basically a half pod following the Hull with a duckboard each side.

Option 2 - Basically a full width pod following all chines, and includes the Euro Style transom returns on the sides for added strength and potential battery storage...

[mustang5]

Bit of Progress this weekend.

Layed chopped strand on top of an outer layer of sandable talc filled resin.

Going to sand some air pockets out and get set for the matting and woven cloth this week.

Should have a complete pod by this weekend and the boat ready to flowcoat.

[Pazz01]

Hi Mustang

We are thinking along the lines of option two, pretty much for the extra room and potential storage. A lot more work I know, but we have had our boat for 15 years +, so we are thinking it's a good opportunity to do everything and team it up with a new 225hp.

Love the progress. Are you doing everything yourself with the boat? or getting someone to do that for you?

Pazz

[mustang5]

Hi Mustang

We are thinking along the lines of option two, pretty much for the extra room and potential storage. A lot more work I know, but we have had our boat for 15 years +, so we are thinking it's a good opportunity to do everything and team it up with a new 225hp.

Love the progress. Are you doing everything yourself with the boat? or getting someone to do that for you?

Pazz

Hey mate, I have also decided on option 2. The additional room and dive board on the transom sold me over.

I am doing it all myself, so its all a bit of a learning curve however I think its coming along ok. So far ive only really spent 2 solid days on it and 80% of that time was getting the mould/template set correctly in order to prevent issues later. Really have to make sure to quadruple check that everything is coming straight off the existing hull bottom.

I am going to use 2 x 25mm ply glued together with matting in between for the transom, and then use 25mm for the stringers. Its going to be one solid extension thats for sure.

I anticipate the weight to be roughly 120-130kg for the extension. Not bad for an extra 2 1/12 ft of overall length, and a hell of a lot of extra fishing room.

[surveyor]

Hi
Great project .How is the pod joined to the boat.it is not clear from the photos i assume you will glass over the joint to the hull and run the stringers through the transom?

[odes20]

Just found this thread. Not sure if you had much input re going to the full hull extension, but in my opinion you made the right choice a thousand times over. All the research Ive done indicates this is by far the best option to get maximum benefit from your project. This will give you in real terms a longer hull, with full flotation benefits, and a whole new pivot point bringing you the ride of a longer boat.
Now, let me say, the pics shown earlier, while looking fantastic, are of a pod, not a full hull extension, and my experience is you wont get maximum benefit in the ride, unless you go full extension. Most of your comments are about gaining extra room in the deck space dept., but the major matters are about how the hull will perform.

I have a 20ft Yalta Odessa 2000, and my mate has a Yalta 189 which is, as far as my measuring, simply a shorter boat out of the same basic mould. He had a Alu pod made for it 700mm long on which he placed a 150 Etec,. He gained the floor space etc, but the pod is short of a full hull ext. by 400 mm both sides. I ranted at him to go full width, as in my view it would in real terms bring it up to the specs of my hull, thereby giving him a longer hull with new characteristics.
Well he chose not to, and while he has more deck etc having chopped out the well etc, his boat rides nothing like mine. It is bum down on the plane and pitches /almost dolphins, going into a sea. So basically he has all this weight out there with not enough buoyancy, and its a pig. Hes happy but I think its a mess. Now he could go back to his fabricator and get it added to both sides, as his pod man is a class act, but hes not interested. I have a vid of him and I racing on Tinaroo , and his boat has its bum draggin even at WOT. Mine is riding nice and flat, and if im going to extend I want to keep this dynamic.

I have been thinking for 2 years about extending mine and often stare at it. I think youre right on the money, and am so rapt to see you go full extension. Just make sure you keep the info comin in as to how to attach it properly. Im thinking Stringer extension would add optimum strength, antiflex etc. The advice given about using epoxy is right on as well. I have rebuilt my transom, incl raising the height, with epoxy and wacked a 175 Zuk 4 stroke on the back. It is incredibly strong!
Hey Paz! We should catch up! Maybe we can motivate each other to go ahead. I have rebuild the stringers and floors and transoms in 4 boats, and am confident to do it, and know what I want, just need a push!

[mustang5]

UPDATE:

Did another 4 layers last night until 2am burning the midnight oil. Shes pretty solid this morning, however I aim to throw another 4 layers and I should have a 10mm outer skin thickness.

Plan then is to cut the ply to shape and start glassing in the structure. That shouldnt take too long dependent on if I can get away with simply bolting to existing transom rather than running stringers through the existing transom which would require a lot of cutting.

I will then shut the top of the pod with a deck and splashwell, then glass in the euro style sides and prep it up for a total flowcoat.

In keeping with the classical theme of the older style haines, I have purchased a mint condition Johnson Ocean Runner 200hp to throw on. Whether this is a temporary thing or not well time will tell, but for the price I purchased it for it certainly helps with Xmas looming etc..



Hi
Great project .How is the pod joined to the boat.it is not clear from the photos i assume you will glass over the joint to the hull and run the stringers through the transom?

Im still in two minds with this one. I was hoping to simply bolt to the existing transom, running a 25mm piece of ply across existing transom, joining these to the stringers which then join the new transom. One factor towards this decision is I will only get about a 700mm lap to the existing stringers as I would then encounter a cross stringer.

[mustang5]

Just found this thread. Not sure if you had much input re going to the full hull extension, but in my opinion you made the right choice a thousand times over. All the research Ive done indicates this is by far the best option to get maximum benefit from your project. This will give you in real terms a longer hull, with full flotation benefits, and a whole new pivot point bringing you the ride of a longer boat.
Now, let me say, the pics shown earlier, while looking fantastic, are of a pod, not a full hull extension, and my experience is you wont get maximum benefit in the ride, unless you go full extension. Most of your comments are about gaining extra room in the deck space dept., but the major matters are about how the hull will perform.

I have a 20ft Yalta Odessa 2000, and my mate has a Yalta 189 which is, as far as my measuring, simply a shorter boat out of the same basic mould. He had a Alu pod made for it 700mm long on which he placed a 150 Etec,. He gained the floor space etc, but the pod is short of a full hull ext. by 400 mm both sides. I ranted at him to go full width, as in my view it would in real terms bring it up to the specs of my hull, thereby giving him a longer hull with new characteristics.
Well he chose not to, and while he has more deck etc having chopped out the well etc, his boat rides nothing like mine. It is bum down on the plane and pitches /almost dolphins, going into a sea. So basically he has all this weight out there with not enough buoyancy, and its a pig. Hes happy but I think its a mess. Now he could go back to his fabricator and get it added to both sides, as his pod man is a class act, but hes not interested. I have a vid of him and I racing on Tinaroo , and his boat has its bum draggin even at WOT. Mine is riding nice and flat, and if im going to extend I want to keep this dynamic.

I have been thinking for 2 years about extending mine and often stare at it. I think youre right on the money, and am so rapt to see you go full extension. Just make sure you keep the info comin in as to how to attach it properly. Im thinking Stringer extension would add optimum strength, antiflex etc. The advice given about using epoxy is right on as well. I have rebuilt my transom, incl raising the height, with epoxy and wacked a 175 Zuk 4 stroke on the back. It is incredibly strong!
Hey Paz! We should catch up! Maybe we can motivate each other to go ahead. I have rebuild the stringers and floors and transoms in 4 boats, and am confident to do it, and know what I want, just need a push!


Thanks mate.

Yeah well when I weighed it up I thought there is really not much difference in moulding the entire hull rather than just a section. I know the finishing and flowcoating will be a different story but I think it will be worth it.

Looking at it now from the side it certainly makes her look like a bit more of a Monster of a boat. Hull length is now 24ft.

[surveyor]

Hi
I reread and missed where you said you would bolt it .im not sure how the two parts will meet ie the pod to the hull

I think it is usual if extending the hull full width to grind back the hull and make it all one piece run the stringers etc

700 mm of stringer would be heaps. can obviously be bolted as you appear to be doing but will be difficult over such a large surface and you will have a join all the way around .not sure of your plan but gel coat over the seam will crack with no glass under it

there are some good hull extensions step by step on classic mako http://www.classicmako.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3
if I still have it wrong continue ;D as is
good luck

[mustang5]

Hi
I reread and missed where you said you would bolt it .im not sure how the two parts will meet ie the pod to the hull

I think it is usual if extending the hull full width to grind back the hull and make it all one piece run the stringers etc

700 mm of stringer would be heaps. can obviously be bolted as you appear to be doing but will be difficult over such a large surface and you will have a join all the way around .not sure of your plan but gel coat over the seam will crack with no glass under it

there are some good hull extensions step by step on classic mako http://www.classicmako.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3
if I still have it wrong continue ;D as is
good luck

Great sight that one. Read a few extensions on Iboats. I suppose its hard to compare as mine is not exactly a cut and shut, its more a semi permanent to permanent pod lol.

I guess its a question as whether a seamless pod/hull join is worth the extra effort of cutting through the existing transom rather than simply bolting??

The other factor I need to think about is the bungs/water flow. So Im guessing there are some more pros to going through the existing transom and adjoining stringers.

There are two main stringers that run each side of the Fuel tank, they are about 250mm high. What would be my minimum overlap for these, in order to extend an extra 2 1/2 feet of hull?? Bearing in mind that these two stringers will be bearing the load of approximately 250kg hanging off the back. Also, im guessing the process is simply cut the existing glass from stringers, clean, prep, acetone and layer up over the two stringers until adequate strength gained?

There is a keel stringer which is only about 50mm height by 10mm width so im guessing that this is more for structural integrity of the keel and also for the compression force applied from the bending caused by the outboard on the transom when under way? Surely a stringer connecting to existing transom would suffice here?

[mustang5]

106340

Test sprayed some flowcoat the other day. Really came out surprisingly. Can't wait to coat the whole boat and freshen her up

[mustang5]

106344106345106346

Getting some good strength out of the glass now with still a night of layup to go. Holds the big fellas weight.

Next on the list is getting the stringers on, forming the splashwell and glassing the top. Then to form up the transom returns and remove the mould ready for fairing.

Coming along nicely.

[mustang5]

106368

Got the transom ply in, and stripped the rear of the mould.

Stringers tomorrow then should be able to throw the deck on the top and form up a splashwell.

[mustang5]

106387

Mould stripped. Not much fairing required prior to overall paint job.

Cut stringers however ran out of glass and nobody open on a Sunday so spent the afternoon watching the cricket.

Had to do a dump run by the time I had the mould stripped. It's amazing how it all accumulates when stripping the mould.

The pod is only glassed to the boat atm but holds my weight on the transom. So once all the stringers are connected I don't think there is going to be an issue with strength.

Anyhow I'll get some glass this week and glass in the stringers. Looking forward to the next stage in forming up the top and sides of the extension.

[mustang5]

106470
106471106472

Glassing in the stringers. In between I am fabricating the deck whilst waiting for resin to set. She's very solid now

Had a bit of a disaster with the storms during the week but all faired up ok.

106473

[Rip it up]

Mustang. Your stringer photo looks like the glass is very dry in places. Care to explain what's your process?


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Yep, photo was taken whilst laying up prior to pay down and roll

[Rip it up]

Fair enough. A mid session deglove, drink and photo opportunity.


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[mustang5]

Slow batch mate, time to sneak a ciggie and beer in between the bending over and sniffing the beautiful fumes of hot resin.

If anything keeps the wife away, it's the smell of resin haha

[Pazz01]

Mate it's looking sweet. Not sure if anyone in my family has the skill set to do that. May have to pay an expert I think. But keep the photos coming, looks the goods.

Pazz

[mustang5]

Thanks mate. Ran out of resin so waiting for supplies to continue the journey.

There's really not much to it. Just have to be patient and not get too upset at redoing things here and there after you learn mistakes lol.

Get into a nice process with fibreglassing, do layups during the week after work, and leave the loud stuff till the weekend.


106506

[mustang5]

Me and my two brothers with a total weight of 250kg sat and jumped on the back of the transom and all we did was lift the front of boat up. So I'm confident that she will hold the 200hp johno comfortably and there's still plenty of strength to be gained from the deck glass and also the side returns. So I'm happy with progress, although I'm in for some sanding that's for sure haha.

Can anyone recommend the best type of fibreglass filler to use?? I tried mix talc with resin but could never get the texture I needed. I'm chasing a car bog filler texture in order to fill under the hull etc.

[tropicrows]

Might be a bit late now but this is the book you need. All the information is in it.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/24/6f0f622bb3ddcd071e7dbb94bacdbfa0.jpg

[mustang5]

Haha thanks mate. Looks like a riveting read. I'm the more trial and error type, over build it over layer it.

[tropicrows]

It also includes what to use for fillers and how to make them. I would stay well away from car bog

[mustang5]

Yeah I know car bogs a major no no, but I'm chasing that texture/viscosity and haven't been able to emulate it using talc or microbubble fillers. Maybe not mixing properly or somethibg

[tropicrows]

You need Fumed Silica –#Sometimes referred to as ‘Thixo’ or by its trade name – CABOSIL.# Fumed Silica is a thixotropic material.# While most fillers increase the viscosity of resin, and if taken to a point of ‘No Flow’, will become a very solid mass, Cabosil can be added to get a consistency of Vaseline – quite stiff, but still able to flow.

[mustang5]

That sounds the business. Thanks heaps mate I'll look it up.

[burleygu]

you will get the consistency with a talk bog mix using a paint stirrer on a drill thee auger type so much resin then keep adding talc until you are happy with consistency you can do this in a left over resin drum and add hardener to your batches when needed. you can also buy talc from fiberglass suppliers in 20kg bags

[mustang5]

Thanks burley. Had another attempt with talc today which went pretty good.

[mustang5]

106530

106531

But of progress. Only so much daylight.

Side returns are very fiddly, will be in the contest for a modern art award when done

[mustang5]

106587

106588

Slow and steady.

[giddyup58]

If you are still trying to figure out the best bog to use, get onto AA Fiberglass Supplies at Hemmant, and get a 5 litre pack of epoxy, pumps to suit and 5 litres of micro-balloons.
The micro balloons are added to catalysed resin and mixed to the consistency of car bog.
If you don't mix too much, you will get good pot life. Even though it's epoxy and goes off slowly, too much in a lump will self accelerate and you'll end up with an expensive smoking blob.
The epoxy/balloons bog is industry standard, clings to vertical surfaces, and if applied in the am, can be sanded in the pm, but probably best left over night.
Best bit - it sands beautifully! Use 40 grit for general shaping, then use Wattyl hi-build 2pac undercoat.
All the above is providing that you intend to 2 pac paint the boat.
If you are going to re-gelcoat, ignore everything I have said, as the polyester will not stick to the epoxy.

[mustang5]

Yeah mate using Flowcoat/Gelcoat so cant use epoxy. Im liking working with the Polyester Resin.

Have the 100L bait tank formed up, 2 sinks to each side of it, bait board and also the seat boxes cut out and ready to glass. Then I will glass the back, and then do the fairing this week.

Hopefully get the flowcoating done this weekend.

[mustang5]

Glassed the sinks and bait tanks last night.... Might have gone a little big in size with the bait tank, but hey, what can ya do.. (185L)

Will flowcoat these tonight and glue them to the upper deck, and then start glassing the entire rear of the boat.

Pics to come :)

[mustang5]

106673

Well the rain is killing me, but what else can YA do.

Bait board, and some compartment tank moulds taking place

[mustang5]

106714

Bait tank and sink Moulds in place now piecing it all together for another glass session

[Chimo]

Hi M5

The big bait tank will be fine just make sure you plumb it so you can just use 1/3 or 1/2 full as well as 90% and still circulate water thru it. Big tanks sure do slosh around so maybe baffles / dividers to halve or third it may be worthy of consideration too.

While your at it have you considered insulating the outside so you can have a big cold esky on the non fishing outings?

Are you hanging trim tabs off the pod to fine tune the ride.?

Cheers
Chimo

[mustang5]

Hi M5

The big bait tank will be fine just make sure you plumb it so you can just use 1/3 or 1/2 full as well as 90% and still circulate water thru it. Big tanks sure do slosh around so maybe baffles / dividers to halve or third it may be worthy of consideration too.

While your at it have you considered insulating the outside so you can have a big cold esky on the non fishing outings?

Are you hanging trim tabs off the pod to fine tune the ride.?

Cheers
Chimo

Hi mate,

I have twin insulated eskies in the seat boxes so not going to worry about the bait tank.

Good point on the sloshing around, will put some thought onto it.

Going to see how she rides first, and if theres some trim issues I will be looking into them.

Looking at the boat though and running some rough calculations, she should be pretty stable. Plus, adding 200kg of hull weight to the boat is certainly going to help

[mustang5]

Another thing if failed to think about was a transom door.... I realised after dummy placing the rear deck section that access was pretty difficult.

Wondering if I should replace one of the sinks with a transom door setup???

My only worry is it is not a self draining deck... And any water over the back is straight to the bilge..

Any thoughts?

[Chimo]

Don't make it a full height door / access point, go half height and rig a folding door with transom height flat.

[odes20]

I notice you are basically building all your shapes out of timber. A serious and thorough glass over will be required to keep all this waterproof. You mentioned 200 kgs, is that the whole amont of weight added in the rebuild? seems a lot? I have been contemplating this kind of hull extension my self but making up moulds for all the sections. maybe it would save some weight as well?

[Chimo]

"moulds for all the sections. maybe it would save some weight as well?"

Sure would.

[mustang5]

Yeah using light timber ecoply for the deck areas. You could go moulded glass everywhere but there's not much difference in weight between ecoply and a couple of layers of glass compared to just shear glass albeit much thicker.

Not overly worried about the extra weight as going full width I've been chasing more weight given the additional floatation of such a large pod. Weight includes all glass, stringers, deck area and tanks, bait board etc...

Although I have not factored in the baitwell I cut out which was roughly 30kg so a total figure will be closer to 170kg.. I think that's about par given the hull/pod glass is roughly 10mm thick

[mustang5]

By baitwell I mean splashwell...

[mustang5]

106863

Fatherhood is tough.

[mustang5]

First few coats of Flowcoat. Came out pretty well and has cured pretty well too.

Off the gun finish is really quite manageable with sanding. Can get a nice smooth consistent finish, however havent tried the polish etc. as I want to throw quite a few more coats on prior to that process.

In between sanding I am now starting the deck fitout, starting with some nice carpet.

Mounted the outboard on the weekend and fired her up. They are a thirsty motor but nice and simple and fired straight up.

What better motor to match a classic Haines hull than with a Johno.

Slowly but surely getting there. Hope to be on the water for a trial in the coming weeks :)

[Pazz01]

Looks awesome mate. Looks like a 650F or something similar. A real credit to you. Would you assume it's nearly the same lengths as say a formula or something similar?

Really keen to hear how it rides with the pod extension.

Pazz

[mustang5]

Looks awesome mate. Looks like a 650F or something similar. A real credit to you. Would you assume it's nearly the same lengths as say a formula or something similar?

Really keen to hear how it rides with the pod extension.

Pazz

Not sure on the length of a formula. This one measures 24ft almost to the inch.

Did the structural test of the transom. I am 110kg and with the outboard tilted up I can jump up and down on the leg and she doesnt budge... Built it like a tank So it was what I expected.

Will be interesting to see how she rides.

[odes20]

First few coats of Flowcoat. Came out pretty well and has cured pretty well too.

Off the gun finish is really quite manageable with sanding. Can get a nice smooth consistent finish, however havent tried the polish etc. as I want to throw quite a few more coats on prior to that process.

In regard to the flowcoat, are you spraying it ? and if so what with ?
Im interested to hear what thickness you would be applying and then sanding and polishing?

[mustang5]

First few coats of Flowcoat. Came out pretty well and has cured pretty well too.

Off the gun finish is really quite manageable with sanding. Can get a nice smooth consistent finish, however havent tried the polish etc. as I want to throw quite a few more coats on prior to that process.

In regard to the flowcoat, are you spraying it ? and if so what with ?
Im interested to hear what thickness you would be applying and then sanding and polishing?


Got a cheap Spray Putty Gun from Bunnings which basically piles it on thick. I have then sanded that back smooth and then applied first layer of styrene thinned flowcoat using a 2mm nozzle pressure gun on a test patch and came out really good.

Plan to do the whole boat over using the gazillion litres I have left.

Thickness wise well I cant say, but I would say that each layer with the putty gun is around 1mm and I did 3 layers once tacky.

[Rip it up]

Good progress mustang. Looks like you were busy over xmas.

Did you consider doing a weighbridge check before and after for the extra weight added?


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[Rip it up]

And what arrangements did you do for the water drainage from inside the hull and the floor?


Damo's dodgy boat building factory.

[McKnight]

I see your bait board is a little to big (fleabay).

Good work on the hull extension though. can't wait to see the final product.

[giddyup58]

So, what's the go with this refurb?
Is it done? Does it go any better with the hull extension?
Is the fuel economy any better??
Was it worth the pain?