WARNING Yamaha Corrosion

[Mad Fish]

My 150A four stroke is completely stuffed. I purchased the motor in 2004 since then i have used it every 2 weeks and flushed it according to the manufacturers instructions minimum of 15 minutes with the garden hose. I have had outboard motors for 40 years and always looked after them like my life depended on them going out 70k sometimes it did. All other motors i have used the muffs but when i spoke to Yamaha when i purchased the motor they said definitely do not start the motor with muffs on. Just use the garden hose.
My motor has done around 900 hrs. I think it is not a lot to have reasonably expected the motor to have lasted more than 10 years with good maintenance.
My power head now has holes blown through the block next to the thermostat and is completely corroded inside.
NOT HAPPY MR YAMAHA..
My Motor looked like brand new and never had a problem up to now just be careful if you own a Yamaha Four stroke and are following the manufacturers recommendations. :-[

[Noelm]

I can see some popcorn needed here, any chance of a couple of photos?

[bonneville]

geeez mad fish, that would make ya rip ya nighty ! pretty low expected hours for a 4 stroke !
im not up to date with the garden hose flushing system, but are you saying if you'd of used muff's it would have made a difference ?

bonneville

[oldie]

Did they tell you that not running the motor when flushing only cleans out the lower leg area of the motor?????? where is running on muffs flushes the whole cooling system?????????????? I feel for you mate, but every motor needs to be ran on the muffs hose running started for at least 5 minutes until thermostats open and Fresh water cleans the whole system from lower leg to thermos and back!!!!!!

[oldie]

only popcorn needed is while you eat watching your motor running with ear muffs flushing the whole system once your popcorn box is empty shut the motor down and disconnect the muffs

[docaster]

Did they tell you that not running the motor when flushing only cleans out the lower leg area of the motor?????? where is running on muffs flushes the whole cooling system?????????????? I feel for you mate, but every motor needs to be ran on the muffs hose running started for at least 5 minutes until thermostats open and Fresh water cleans the whole system from lower leg to thermos and back!!!!!!

I had the impression the the hose adapter would flush the block and planned on using that when on the water overnight when i replaced freshwater pump. How wrong was i. Not much point doing that now hey oldie.
Glad i always use muffs then.
These forums are so helpful. Never a dumb question.

[ozscott]

If I come home late at night its the fresh water hose point. ...very next day its a start up and.run up to temp with muffs..15min total flush on muffs. So no popcorn needed just muffs

Sorry to hear about your flush v corrosion woes. Would be a bit of a shock if you thought you.were doing the right thing.

Cheers

[Spin]

They say you can use the hose connection and put the muffs on as well
The muffs without the hose connection
or block the hose connection part on the muffs?

[TheRealAndy]

Did they tell you that not running the motor when flushing only cleans out the lower leg area of the motor?????? where is running on muffs flushes the whole cooling system?????????????? I feel for you mate, but every motor needs to be ran on the muffs hose running started for at least 5 minutes until thermostats open and Fresh water cleans the whole system from lower leg to thermos and back!!!!!!

Not sure about the bigger motors, but my f50 had the flushing adaptor at the head, so there is no way it only flushed the leg. It basically flushed the motor in the reverse direction to what water is pumped when running.

[Fed]

They say use a hose with the muffs on
the muffs without the hose connection the blocked ones ?
Can I have what ever you're drinking?

[Scott79]

I am confused.
Mad Fish, are you saying that you have been flushing by using the hose adaptor only without running the motor?
What should the correct process have been:
# Running the motor with muffs and/or
# Running the motor with just the hose connection
# Running the motor with muffs and then using the flushing port without re-starting the motor?

Not having a go, I am in the process of buying the same motor, and trying to determine best practice and I haven't owned a motor with the flushing port previously.

Cheers,
Scott.

[Fed]

I agree Scott it is confusing, would be terrible if the damage was caused by a simple misunderstanding.

[metro_fisher]

I have a Suzuki. It has a flush port too. I am under the impression that the port flushes the head only and not the leg (contrary to another poster). It is to be used by people who own boats that don't leave the water. No point flushing leg if it is partly submerged and you cant use muffs in this scenario anyway. The muffs are the preferred option as it is a comprehensive flush.

In light of this, I am surprised that the head is rusted out using the flush port method.

[fishing111]

Pretty sure what he's saying is that he's used the garden hose connection all the time instead of the muffs on the advise he received from Yamaha, and he's refering to not starting the motor on the hose attatchment. Might be wrong but thats how i take it.

[Fed]

Funny how we all read things differently.

As there's no mention of the flushing port at all in the post I take it as Mad Fish has been flushing with the muffs without running the motor.

Put us out of our misery Mad Fish.

[docaster]

Reading back through it is confusing.
My understanding is if you use the hose connection at the block do not run the motor(i thought this would flush the block but burn the water pump / impeller out).
I might be wrong which part it flushes though, but do NOT run motor.

Best practice was to run on muffs or in tank while running motor for 15 mins.

[fisho64]

Funny how we all read things differently.

As there's no mention of the flushing port at all in the post I take it as Mad Fish has been flushing with the muffs without running the motor.

Put us out of our misery Mad Fish.

thats exactly how I read it as well.
In which case unfortunately he may not have picked up the operation manual in 10 years/900hrs of use and read any of it.
It seems he may have misunderstood what they told him (dont run using the flushing port) and instead put muffs on and not run it either.

[bonneville]

would any of the deterioration have been picked up at service intervals ???? or noticed ???
you'd think that with it being so damaged, performance would have been effected in some way, surely ????

bonnevile

[docaster]

Mad fish how many times were the anodes in the block replaced?
Had the dealer been servicing or yourself?
What is your water like hard or soft?

[battleon]

This from the Yamaha boaters log. I think a lot here would probably disagree with some of this!

What: A built-in flushing device is a hose fitting, usually located near the lower rear cowling. Do not run the engine during this procedure.
Where: An outboard can be flushed with the boat on a lift or in the water; it works best if you can trim the engine up so the gearcase is out of the water.
How:


Connect a garden hose to the outboard’s flushing device fitting
Turn on the faucet; let freshwater run through the outboard for 10-15 minutes
Turn off the faucet; disconnect
Put the cap back on engine’s flush fitting (per owner’s manual)

Which Method to Use
There is no single best method for flushing an outboard motor. There are only best methods to suit the circumstances. For example, the flush attachment method is the easiest and quickest for a boat that is moored, while the flush bag method is particularly useful on motors with multiple inlets per side. In addition, the flush muff method and bag method are the only methods to use when fogging the engine for winter storage.
Testing has shown that even the flush attachment method allows water to pass into the cylinder head passages, in spite of the fact that the thermostat does not fully open. This means that there is no disadvantage to using the flush attachment.
While conventional wisdom might indicate there is some benefit to flushing with the engine running—such as with flush muffs or a flush bag—there is no clear data to indicate this is true.
What’s important in all cases is to regularly check to see that water inlet screens on the lower unit are clear and clean. Flushing your outboard with freshwater on a regular basis can go a long way toward extending the outboard’s life span – especially for those who boat in saltwater. Freshwater flushing is easy and cheap, so keep the garden hose handy. Y

[LittleSkipper]

This should be the preferred method to flushing an outboard, it's more thorough than muffs and simulates as if the leg is in open water.


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[docaster]

This should be the preferred method to flushing an outboard, it's more thorough than muffs and simulates as if the leg is in open water.


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/26/amuherad.jpg


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Hi Little skipper. Do you add anything to the water, like saltaway or soluble oil?

[LittleSkipper]

Hi Little skipper. Do you add anything to the water, like saltaway or soluble oil?

No Preservatives, No Artificial Colours, No Additives...just plain old H2O with the hose slightly wedged behind the cave plate so I can top up the drum as and when required.

I do ENGAGE reverse (not full throttle) while flushing as this prevents most of the water from being thrown out of the drum, ENGAGE forward (not full throttle) and you'll understand what happens next?

When I scored the drum it had no drain bung and I was simply using the age old method of using the garden hose to drain the drum and one day my brother-in-law didn't like this method? (No patience I might add) and decided to fit a drain bung in the bottom for us.

The drum works a treat and because my outboard is a two stroke I don't piss off the neighbours?

Will be upgrading to a four stroke by the end of the year but I will still be flushing my outboard using this method with the drum.

The muffs are a good quick short idea to flush as I have a pair that services both sides of the water intakes (not just one side like the cheapies) but I'm sure somewhere along the lines it is also sucking air and not just water when using muffs.

[Jsmfun]

I brought a Yamaha 115 saltwater series in 2010 brought from a dealer in a very large thread on here. They told me to only use the hose connection did not even supply muffs with boat thought this was strange but only had smalls outboards before I took on board what they told me. Now I only just brought a new boat with a Suzuki and when picking the boat up going through the procedures he gave me a pair of muffs I ask if I could just use the hose point and he said only use the muffs they made that very clear maybe he got told the same thing

[stang69]

The best way to flush a motor would have to be in a drum or flushing bag. But I was recently told by an award winning Yamaha mechanic not to use flushing muffs, only use the flushing port on the power head. This is also recommended in the Yamaha manual. But I just cant see how it could be as good a flush as through the cooling intake with the motor running, as long as you have a good set of muffs that seal up and you have enough water pressure. For starters you will have warm water going through your motor loosening up salt deposits when you have your motor running on the muffs. I see points for both methods, but personally would opt for flushing in a drum.

[docaster]

The Yamaha manual does say the best way is using the hose connection under cowl. And works better with motor tilted up.Hmmm, get you through the warranty maybe?Crazy stuff.Any body have a verado. What is recommended for them.

[russ71]

I have the same motor 2004 F150 yamy, and was told only use the flush port if you don't have ear muffs and you wait until you get home etc, my yamy mechanic told me this, I also always flush with salt away. The best way to flush your motor imo, is to use a tank, if possible, its a nice to have.

Russ

[fishychrissy]

Yamaha dealer told me exactly the same thing as they did MadFish when I picked up my F60 a couple of months back.
I even got him to repeat it as he said just use the top hose flush fitting whilst the motor is off, and there is no need to flush it with the muffs on whilst running like my old 2 stroke.
It has me perplexed, because I sure as Hell haven't used the muffs since I've had it. 10-15 mins with the hose that's what they reckon, so I've followed that to the tee.
Cheers,
Chris

[cqfreshie]

When I bought my Quinnie with an Evinrude 50, my dealer told me to only use the hose fitting also. Now I'm no expert at all, but I'm starting to wonder if we're being lead up the old garden path.

[Towie0]

I can add to the mix and confusion i have an F60 & was also told just use the hose fiting & do not start the motor.

I have been in doubt & only clocked up 50 hs on it but have a old garbage bin in the carport to flush it while running.
Old rubbish bin cut in half does the job very well.

[Any_Weather]

G'day guys, I know this is of no benefit to MadFish now but I have just sold my boat which also had a 2004 model F150 Yamaha with 850 hours on it and inside the water jackets was like new. The anodes were removed and either cleaned or replaced every year. I only ever ran the motor on the muffs for flushing and occasionally ran the hose in the flush fitting as a precaution, but rarely. Very disappointing to hear what some guys are being told. I agree with all the people saying a drum flush is best if you have the luxury otherwise muffs is second best. The Yamahas seem to take a while to fill with water on the muffs but which can get a little unnerving.
cheers
lee

[TheRealAndy]

Looks like every method for cleaning your outboard is flawed, so the simple solution is to use all!!! Flush with hose adaptor, use muffs and use a bucked of water.

Commercial fisho bloke I know who runs a lot of boats reckon they are all the same. Failure rate is independent of brand. He reckons the same for bilge pumps too!!

[Bonus]

My DF175 suzuki has 2 flushing ports, one on the side of the leg and one at the front of the engine below the cowl. If you connect a hose to these they flush the motor but not completely as I see it. Then there is the water pump and line up to the block that does not get cleaned if you only use the hose connected to the port or ports. I have used a muff for ages and had to prime the system through the leg port to start with. Recently I use a big drum and now don't have to prime the system as there are 2 holes forward of the normal pick up area that need to be covered with water for the engine to prime correctly. As well as using the muffs or drum I always open the flushing ports momentarily while running the engine to let out salt water that can sit in there. The front flushing port has a long pipe running to the block and if you don't open it the salt sits in there and then salts up the block afterwards. Bloody stupid set up if you ask me.

[Noelm]

Can someone tell me how a drum is better/different to using flushers?

[scottar]

Can someone tell me how a drum is better/different to using flushers?

Not sure of the reason - possibly back pressure, but my old 40 two stroke on the muffs had nearly no water exiting with the exhaust outlet at the top of the leg. If I ran it in drum there was a heap of water that exited at the same point - same amount as when actually using the boat. Also keeps the neighbours happy

[LittleSkipper]

Can someone tell me how a drum is better/different to using flushers?

What do you mean by flushers Noelm? Muffs? If so I'll bet your bottom dollar they suck air as well as water?


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[honda900]

Can someone tell me how a drum is better/different to using flushers?

Just my thoughts on Muffs v Bag;

Muffs fall off from time to time
sometimes they don't fit around the leg properly and get a bad seal
The water pressure can move the muffs if you don't check after turning on the tap

Regards
Honda.

[MEGA'bite]

For all of you guys using an additive to break down the salt deposits ie salt away, stop wasting your money , good old house hold white vinegar will do the same job if not better.

I do the odd engine rebuild and soak heads side plates etc in vinegar . they come up looking brand new with all the salt and corrosion gone. I to have a 150f yam and use my "saltaway" adapter filled with white vinegar . Just my 2 cents

[metro_fisher]

I think there is some confusion, including myself, on what the original poster actually did.

Now that I read the post again, I believe they didn't use the flush port but instead attached the muffs but didn't turn the engine on. This explains why the head is rusted. It would be shocking if Yamaha suggested this. It could be an unfortunate misunderstanding.

Flush port and muffs with engine on are both acceptable methods. According to my manual and general knowledge, muffs are preferred as it is a comprehensive clean whilst the flush port is for moored boats.

[Towie0]

My F60 alarm goes off using muffs & only gets a trickle of water out the jet. The muffs are hopeless on mine it over heats & the alarm goes off every time i tried it.

Thats why i started using a bin to run it in fresh water.

[metro_fisher]

My F60 alarm goes off using muffs & only gets a trickle of water out the jet. The muffs are hopeless on mine it over heats & the alarm goes off every time i tried it.

Thats why i started using a bin to run it in fresh water.

I haven't had any experienced with Yamaha motors so hard to comment. I do know that I had similar issue with a Mercury 2 stroke and it ended up being the muffs not the motor that was the issue (poor seal).

[ozscott]

I just downloaded the user manual for the 2004 150 4 stroke. Like with the manual for my 115 v4 2 stroke it advises engine off fresh water flush port (only mention of muff use is when fogging for storage). It looks like the OP followed the Yammy approved and suggested procedure and if that's the case it didn't last as long as it should have and probably highlights the benefits of warn water and full flow from open thermostats that muffs and a running engine provide.

Cheers


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[Scott79]

Where are you Mad Fish, put everyone out of our misery, tell us how you were flushing !!!

[Moonlighter]

And as someone else has asked, what was the servicing regime, particularly the engine anodes in the block?

[Noelm]

OK, if you have GOOD flushers (muffs) and not the less than $10 cheap rubbish, and you have decent water pressure, using flushers is exactly the same as using a drum, excluding some smaller HP that require special fittings, a drum is good if you own an old 2 stroke that will annoy the crap out of half the neighborhood when running out of the water.

[robsue]

with my 70 4 stroke I now use a 340 litre cut down recycle bin, it wouldn't fit in a normal bin, as the ear muffs did not give a good fit around leg of outboard

[Charlie]

I have the f40 Yammy, you definitely get water draining from the intakes when using the top flushing port so I suppose it it cleans the whole motor, of course a F120 could be constructed totally differently. The standard muffs are OK but dual inlet muffs were a totally waste of money and just won't work with my motor .

[tunaticer]

Im gonna build a dam in the back yard and reverse the trailer into it and fire it up from now on.......

[Mad Fish]

Hi Guys glad to see this has stirred up a Hornet's nest.
Below is the instruction straight from the manual supplied to me at purchase. And let me be clear- the Yamaha representative told me never start the motor when flushing with the garden hose AND NEVER USE THE MUFFS AND START THE ENGINE EITHER AS HE TOLD ME THAT THEY DIDNT GET ENOUGH WATER INTO THE MOTOR!! So i followed the instructions straight from the manual. I have had the motor serviced regularly normally every 12 months.

FLUSHING THE POWER UNIT
Perform this procedure right after operation for the most thorough flushing.
1.After shutting off the engine,unscrew the garden hose connector from the fitting on the bottom cowling.
2.Screw the garden hose connector onto a garden hose which is connected to a fresh water supply.
3.WITH THE ENGINE OFF, turn on the water tap and let the water flush through the cooling passages for about 15 minutes. Turnoff the water and disconnect the garden hose.
4. When flushing is complete, reinstall the garden hose connector on the fitting on the bottom of the cowling. Tighten the connection securely.

"The direct instruction straight from the Yamaha representative was to "definitely NOT START THE ENGINE WHEN USING THE GARDEN HOSE"

Mad Fish

[Triple]

Where are you Mad Fish, put everyone out of our misery, tell us how you were flushing !!!
Cough cough... Still waiting...

[ranga7]

Cough cough... Still waiting...
he just did can't u read, he followed the instructions from yamaha

[shaungonemad]

Cough cough... Still waiting...

Dont know where he has gone oh hang on he was above you.

[Mad Fish]

What would you like to know?

[Bonus]

The servicing regime for an engine with anodes in the block is as follows:-
Remove anodes from block and clean the anodes up if the anode is still in reasonable condition. If the anode has big pieces missing then you undo the small bolt holding the anode in place and replace the anode. the anodes cost about $10 each.
I always put a tiny bit of grease on the threads of all bolts and also a tiny bit on the O ring surface of the anode housing. I do not put any grease on the anode as it will stop it from working.
I also clean up any salty gel from around the hole in the block with something that can pull the crap out and try not to drop it back into the block. My engine is a DF175 Suzuki

[Triple]

Righto righto settle down. . Must of been in page 3 and thought that was the last post.

Anyone else had or heard of corrosion issues with this model?

We're the anodes actually done during servicing as required? Listed in any receipts?

[Jeremy]

Hi Guys glad to see this has stirred up a Hornet's nest.
Below is the instruction straight from the manual supplied to me at purchase. And let me be clear- the Yamaha representative told me never start the motor when flushing with the garden hose AND NEVER USE THE MUFFS AND START THE ENGINE EITHER AS HE TOLD ME THAT THEY DIDNT GET ENOUGH WATER INTO THE MOTOR!! So i followed the instructions straight from the manual. I have had the motor serviced regularly normally every 12 months.

FLUSHING THE POWER UNIT
Perform this procedure right after operation for the most thorough flushing.
1.After shutting off the engine,unscrew the garden hose connector from the fitting on the bottom cowling.
2.Screw the garden hose connector onto a garden hose which is connected to a fresh water supply.
3.WITH THE ENGINE OFF, turn on the water tap and let the water flush through the cooling passages for about 15 minutes. Turnoff the water and disconnect the garden hose.
4. When flushing is complete, reinstall the garden hose connector on the fitting on the bottom of the cowling. Tighten the connection securely.

"The direct instruction straight from the Yamaha representative was to "definitely NOT START THE ENGINE WHEN USING THE GARDEN HOSE"

Mad Fish

Which dealership (?) was this? Maybe they are trying to boost sales...

[Bonus]

I do my own servicing every 12 months and the anodes are part of each service. My engine is 7 years old does about 50 hours per year.
I too would like to know some servicing details of madfishes engine.
Madfish, did Brisbane Yamaha do your servicing?

[stevej]

id say your mechanic hasnt been replacing/cleaning the bits that are suppose to dissolve before your block does

id start there

[oldie]

Ouch this thread is really starting to hurt, i guess its hitting home more as its a yamaha but god help those who own a suzuki and have done the same kind of thing just using the hose plug in engine

[metro_fisher]

Using the hose plug in is standard practice for moored boats with outboards. This is the first I have heard of it failing to work. Must be some exceptional circumstances.

[Noelm]

We need some pictures.......

[Montysfishing]

Something to consider, does the engine have anodes in the block and head? If so, have they been replaced?
Also possible electrical leakage, check earth cables. I installed a large anode to keel directly connected to batt/block

[LittleSkipper]

Hi Guys glad to see this has stirred up a Hornet's nest.
Below is the instruction straight from the manual supplied to me at purchase. And let me be clear- the Yamaha representative told me never start the motor when flushing with the garden hose AND NEVER USE THE MUFFS AND START THE ENGINE EITHER AS HE TOLD ME THAT THEY DIDNT GET ENOUGH WATER INTO THE MOTOR!! So i followed the instructions straight from the manual. I have had the motor serviced regularly normally every 12 months.

FLUSHING THE POWER UNIT
Perform this procedure right after operation for the most thorough flushing.
1.After shutting off the engine,unscrew the garden hose connector from the fitting on the bottom cowling.
2.Screw the garden hose connector onto a garden hose which is connected to a fresh water supply.
3.WITH THE ENGINE OFF, turn on the water tap and let the water flush through the cooling passages for about 15 minutes. Turnoff the water and disconnect the garden hose.
4. When flushing is complete, reinstall the garden hose connector on the fitting on the bottom of the cowling. Tighten the connection securely.

"The direct instruction straight from the Yamaha representative was to "definitely NOT START THE ENGINE WHEN USING THE GARDEN HOSE"

Mad Fish

It appears Yamaha outboards don't get enough water into them to warrant using muffs, hence probably why they have stipulated in the manual to not start the motor and utilise that wonderful new attachment they now stick on all new outboards.

What they should be putting in those manuals is going back to the drawing board and stipulating to flush your outboard in a drum, full stop.

You need to dissolve the salt in the passages and the only way to do that is to get heat into the engine by starting it and simulating the leg of your outboard in a large body of water.


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[ShaneC]

Mad Fish, how did you find out?? Was there a reason to pull it apart and have a look or was it found during a service?

[aussiebasser]

You don't use bore water do you?

[ozscott]

It appears Yamaha outboards don't get enough water into them to warrant using muffs, hence probably why they have stipulated in the manual to not start the motor and utilise that wonderful new attachment they now stick on all new outboards.

What they should be putting in those manuals is going back to the drawing board and stipulating to flush your outboard in a drum, full stop.

You need to dissolve the salt in the passages and the only way to do that is to get heat into the engine by starting it and simulating the leg of your outboard in a large body of water.


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What do you mean? Muffs easily allow enough water to run in my Yammy with a fresh water port and excellent telltale pressure.

Cheers

[LittleSkipper]

What do you mean? Muffs easily allow enough water to run in my Yammy with a fresh water port and excellent telltale pressure.

Cheers

Well, it appears some and I use the word some Yamaha owners are obviously having issues?


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[JulianDeMarchi]

Well, it appears some and I use the word some Yamaha owners are obviously having issues?


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Mine was the same LittleSkipper. I got the water impellor replaced by our mate Garry and now it pumps an OK stream rom the tell-tale. Not like my Merc, but at least it's there. Sometimes she needs a slight rev to start the trickle. Once I've used the muffs, I then use the freshwater port to compelte the job.

--julian

[bonneville]

You don't use bore water do you?

great question, I was going to ask the same thing !
second point, as he has said he looked after his motor impeccably, as he goes off shore, so im sure he did ! as we all try too
but at what point would the degradation become visible/noticeable, during regular service intervals ?
Im presuming that the degradation occurred over time, so if the motor was serviced by a dealer or qualified mechanic,
would it be correct in assuming that this should have been picked up in some way ???
i'll note here, that even though im mechanically minded and could probably do a service myself, I don't, I take mine to a qualified mechanic.
as others have already asked, certainly would like to see some pic's of the issue

bonneville

[Noelm]

I can see some popcorn needed here, any chance of a couple of photos?
I think 5 pages qualifies for being a "popcorn" thread......

[LittleSkipper]

I think 5 pages qualifies for being a "popcorn" thread......

I'm feeling hungry already.


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[Lucky 1]

I have a 2001 Yammy 2 stroke 150HP. I can't get muffs to work properly and it is nerve wraking waiting for the tell tale to work (it doesnt) whilst the engine is running. I have tried several types of muffs (including expensive ones) with no prevail. I use the hose attachment and let it run for about 15 minutes, this is also the advice my reputable Yamaha mechanic has told me. I would prefer to use a drum (as I do with my tinnie) however I havent found a drum large enough to hold the entire leg. I was thinking of making something with marine ply and fibreglass!

[Si]

I have a 2001 Yammy 2 stroke 150HP. I can't get muffs to work properly and it is nerve wraking waiting for the tell tale to work (it doesnt) whilst the engine is running. I have tried several types of muffs (including expensive ones) with no prevail. I use the hose attachment and let it run for about 15 minutes, this is also the advice my reputable Yamaha mechanic has told me. I would prefer to use a drum (as I do with my tinnie) however I havent found a drum large enough to hold the entire leg. I was thinking of making something with marine ply and fibreglass!

I'm the same. my 50hp Yammy 2 banger had issues with muffs. Never got a tell tale and risked melting the impellor and water pump. My mercury was a bit at least got a small tell tale. I did actually do damage to the water pump melting some components.

I dont muck around now and risk doing damage to an expensive assest. I use a converted old blue chemical drum with a PVC ball valve with male hose attachment on the bottom. Much quieter. no fuss and no water going everywhere. I then dump the water were i want it via a hose and a simple turn of the valve. too easy. The only negative is that the drum needs to occupy space somewhere in your yard or shed

[fisho8]

Guys I have a 2013 Yammi f150 and just acquired a yammi f50. The f50 runs fine on the muffs as it gets good water pressure coming out the tell tail. However the 150 does not work at all on the muff and does not take long to overheat. The f150 has large water chambers in the lower leg and you have to have awesome water pressure for the water to make it all the way up into the power head. I have been told the only way to make sure the engine is flushed properly is to use the good old fashioned drum which I went out and got as I did not feel comfortable using the flushing nozzle on the motor that is the way my old man flushed his boat motors and I am doing the same as I feel it is the best practice.

[LittleSkipper]

Guys I have a 2013 Yammi f150 and just acquired a yammi f50. The f50 runs fine on the muffs as it gets good water pressure coming out the tell tail. However the 150 does not work at all on the muff and does not take long to overheat. The f150 has large water chambers in the lower leg and you have to have awesome water pressure for the water to make it all the way up into the power head. I have been told the only way to make sure the engine is flushed properly is to use the good old fashioned drum which I went out and got as I did not feel comfortable using the flushing nozzle on the motor that is the way my old man flushed his boat motors and I am doing the same as I feel it is the best practice.

The drum wins hands down!


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[sporty1]

Hi Guys
my 2013 f70 Yammie flushes fine with the muffs, never had a problem. But if I had the time and drum large enough I would still use the good old drum method as well. Maybe if some enterprising member with a nack for design could develop a collapsable vinly drum we all could buy one each.

[aussiebasser]

Hi Guys
my 2013 f70 Yammie flushes fine with the muffs, never had a problem. But if I had the time and drum large enough I would still use the good old drum method as well. Maybe if some enterprising member with a nack for design could develop a collapsable vinly drum we all could buy one each.

Not wanting to sound like an SA, but how do you know you don't have a problem with internal corrosion? Your motor is only a year old.

[IcyDuck]

Not wanting to sound like an SA, but how do you know you don't have a problem with internal corrosion? Your motor is only a year old.

I think he means he is able to flush on muffs without any noticeable problem with overheating. I have a 2013 f100 and am able to flush fine with muffs also. Seems to have decent water pressure and a good telltale. I've let it run for up to 15 minutes and no overheating is evident ...

Phil

[stang69]

muffs come in all shapes and sizes and colours. Some have a carpet texture to them, some are more like polished floor boards, and thats the muff I like the best.
But I digress. For flushing outboards the oval shaped ones seem to seal the best. Some of the new Yamahas cant be flushed on muffs, like the 4.2 litre motors which have an intake on the bottom of the skeg. The other problem with 4 strokes is with all those intricate water jackets they never drain and always have water in them. Etecs dont have that problem, they drain completely when tilted down. Only problem is they dont last long enough to get corrosion. Badabing bada boom.

[Towie0]

I agree my twin 90 Etecs were a PITA.

I leave the drum empty of water under the motor its out of the way so storage is simple.

[docaster]

I think a feed bin might be the way to go, got this pic off a us forum104509

[stevej]

putting a bend in the wire of the muffs can make them seal tighter

just bash the u bend with a hammer to crimp them up

[goat boy]

putting a bend in the wire of the muffs can make them seal tighter

just bash the u bend with a hammer to crimp them up

Yeh I reckon if the water pressure isn't enough/over heating it's just a poor seal from the muffs. On my old Yam 40 2st I used a few sets of muffs, I always had poor pressure/trickling tell tale and sometime over-heating. I ended up using a quick-release clamp on the wire of the muffs, this gave an excellent seal, less dribbling out the sides and tell tale spitting out like it did when in the water, and no more over-heating.

[TheRealAndy]

BTW folks, its a common myth that hot water will dissolve salt better than cold. There is stuff all difference. Hot water does make salt more soluble, but its so insignificant its not worth worrying about. Volume of water is more effective, as the water you are using to flush the outboard with will become less saturated with salt.

[myusernam]

Just hold the muffd on tight untill it primes. I hold mine to seal untill it primes and is pumping fully otherwise it hardly primes.
And it's generallly accepted that the jap motors, whilst being good engines, are behind the US engines when it comes to corrosion resistance. The us companies have been doing it a lot longer, make their own alloys etc. There's even a mercury ad about copper content of their alloys compared to others.

[Sprinter1]

Good points. Ive got a F60 and just assumed there was something wrong with me. Whenever I used the muffs I couldnt get enough pressure going and would get the alarm buzzing pretty quick. And it was too big to fit into the garbage bin I used to use on the old motor. Plus its a bugger to carry away with you. So I fell back on using the connection on the head. Never comfortable with that. Once I get home Ill have a good go at it and see if I can get a better fit.

[Bonus]

If anyone wants a drum for a larger engine 115 and above then ATS nets at Brewer Street, Clontarf have a big black plastic container. I was in a hurry and just purchased one. It cost about $120 but oh well I could not find anything else in a hurry. I have another smaller container for washing my Yamaha 50 2 stroke which I also purchased from ATS nets. The smaller one is only about $30. These are all food grade plastic so good quality. When washing any engine in a drum you still have to open the hose flushing bungs to release some salt water that cannot get out otherwise. Especially the bung under the cowl at the front of the engine (in Suzukis). Salt water will stay in the pipe that joins onto this bung and then contaminate the block later when you cease flushing in the drum. Hope this helps

[Noelm]

Don't know about taking the hose connection out or loosening when using a drum to flush.....

[honda900]

http://www.burgees.com/flushingbag/default.htm

BCF used to stock these or a slightly different brand, had mine for 8 years, still pretty much like new.

regards
Honda.

[sleddog]

Is this the one you mean

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Mayo-Outdoors-Flusher-Bag-Collapsible-353-Litre.aspx?pid=127135#Cross

[LittleSkipper]

Is this the one you mean

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Mayo-Outdoors-Flusher-Bag-Collapsible-353-Litre.aspx?pid=127135#Cross

Flusher bags while a great idea! they do not last as long as a polyethylene plastic drum because they can tear very easily from the metal parts of the leg of your outboard.

[Bonus]

Noelm, that is correct - you don't know lol Give Jon Eadie a call at Eadie Marine, Cleveland and confirm it with him. The one at the front of the engine under the cowl. After flushing with muffs or a drum, undo the bug and taste the salt water that comes out of there. Bloody stupid design if you ask me. This on a DF 175 Suzuki or 150 . 115 and 140 are probably the same.

[bar raider]

Guys, there's a few here with problems with the f60 running on muffs and I did too at first.

There is a small hole just above and rearward of the water intake that let's air into the system ( my conclusion), this combined with a low pressure hose won't prime and flow out the peehole, but also won't flush in a drum if you are overthe intake BUT below this useless little hole.


So Here's me with my new f60 with the first outing under my belt, put on the muffs ( worked fine for years on the merc75) turn on tap water came out, jump in boat to clean out and alarm goes off me thinking stupid yamaha and have to bring out the 45 litre bin which has the water level about 2 inches above the water inlet but just over the little hole, so this time I watched it for a little while it was peeing fine , jump in boat and alarm goes off no water flow again but water still over intake now I'm pissed that it has over heated twice with about 3 hours on the clock.

That's when I spotted the hole , started her up and put my finger over the hole and flow started again, tried the same with the muffs and same thing with this hole blocked it would pee fine??? Finger off,no pee WTF?

So now I stick a ear plug in it and flush fine with muffs.


WHAT is this hole for????

Cheers

[gofishin]

...WHAT is this hole for???? Obviously to hold any spare ear plug you have while you are flushing... !

Sorry bar raider, but someone was going to say it :)

Interesting point. Need some pics at least, but as a guess some sort of air bleed.

I flush my F250 with all 3 methods at different times, but mostly with the flush port at the ramp. No problems with any of them, but am very careful with the tub as even with full hose overflow the water in the tub can get pretty warm quite quickly. Motors aren't designed with 50-60 deg inlet water temp in mind!

Available mains pressure may be the biggest problem with muffs. Newer housing developments have piss-poor pressure and for some years now houses have also had pressure restriction devices on external taps. That's one benefit of living in an older suburb, ~7bar or so, maybe a bit less now since they dropped it a little.

Cheers
Brendon


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[bar raider]

Here's One off the net and I use the other plug as a bung in the hole in my drum. LoL

Interestingly going by this fellas ebay pictures there is a small hole on the other side as well. With 2 of them no wonder it can't suck any water up.


104516

[Noelm]

Noelm, that is correct - you don't know lol Give Jon Eadie a call at Eadie Marine, Cleveland and confirm it with him. The one at the front of the engine under the cowl. After flushing with muffs or a drum, undo the bug and taste the salt water that comes out of there. Bloody stupid design if you ask me. This on a DF 175 Suzuki or 150 . 115 and 140 are probably the same.
So, now you say to remove the plug AFTER flushing? Don't think I will ring anyone to confirm their own thoughts.

[Sprinter1]

Is this the one you mean

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Mayo-Outdoors-Flusher-Bag-Collapsible-353-Litre.aspx?pid=127135#Cross

I tried to buy one of these last year thinking it would be easy to take on holidays. We have a couple of big BCFs in Canberra. Neither had them in stock, didnt know when they would get them and wouldnt order them.

[Nick H]

My mechanic told me they recommend this as many manufactures where having water pump failures as the intake where sucking air and making the pump run hot, probably due to bad fitting muffs. Using a drum is the best method in my opinion.