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Seahorse
20-07-2014, 09:50 AM
I bought 420 quin renegade with 50 hp yammy 4 stroke.

with just me on board, get out not to bad. With 1 bloke down back and 1 up front, still digs in a little.

with 3 people it just takes a lot longer to get on plane.

I was going to fig a foil.

Whats ur opinions and best to buy?

cheets
greg

Spaniard_King
20-07-2014, 11:48 AM
Drop in pitch required IMO

Shouldn't need a foil with a 50 on a 4.2. it should fly out of the hole

astro66
20-07-2014, 12:00 PM
dam....50 should push that thing nice....mine is 4.5m with a 40hp merc and a heavy boat with floor/bait tank/two 100amp/h batteries/bow mount/console ....it still pops on the plane no worries with three adults...

Seahorse
20-07-2014, 12:30 PM
Hey Garry, whats your recommendation?

astro66
20-07-2014, 01:37 PM
maybe needs to trim in a bit more to pop it up a bit easyer?

Spaniard_King
20-07-2014, 03:34 PM
Hey Garry, whats your recommendation?

What pitch are you running now ?? 12 or 13?

You need to try a prop with 1 or 2 pitch less

Seahorse
20-07-2014, 04:57 PM
Astro, I always have it trimmed in when i take off.

i will check it out Garry

cheers

tunaticer
20-07-2014, 05:18 PM
Take it up to Solas Props and get a trial with several different pitches and select the best one.

Seahorse
20-07-2014, 05:47 PM
Will they let u try them out?

i have heard of them before.

cheers

littlejim
20-07-2014, 06:07 PM
My boat is F/G about 14ft with an old 70 Evinrude.
Fitted plastic foils that bolt on to the cavitation plate (forget brand).
Made a lot of difference. gets on to plane in about a third of the distance it did before.

Seahorse
20-07-2014, 08:16 PM
I rang bris yamaha this arvo and the guy there said that there was a broshure there on a new foil. He told me to ring back tomorrow.

tunaticer
20-07-2014, 09:49 PM
Be careful about the foil decision.
Turned my 4.1m tinny into a wallowing pig, removed it and stepped on pitch down and problem solvered.

BAR UP
21-07-2014, 05:39 AM
I don't trust Brisbane Yamaha. The best advice is to talk to Nakita from Solas props they will let you trial props till your happy.

Dignity
21-07-2014, 09:30 AM
Greg, just a thought but I have a quin WB Dory with only a 30 HP on it but the transom is cut so low the cav plate was a good 75 mm below the keel, I had to raise the transom and it made all the difference in the world. Not sure that the renegade has the same problem but that would be my first check, how far under the keel is the cavitation plate, then if this is ok look at the other items that others are recommending. Solas will work out several solutions and you can try them out and select the best of them, they even gave me a good trade on the old prop.

I don't know if you have any gauges with your motor but when you do the test runs (including your current prop) make sure you take plenty of measurements of speed & revs, Solas will give you a sheet to make things easier.

Sam

aussiebasser
21-07-2014, 09:34 AM
Is the pin in the lowest possible hole, allowing the motor to tilt all the way down? If it is, you may wish to try Solas, they will ask you to pay for a prop but give you a couple to try on the day. It is difficult without a tacho and gps to decide which is best. If you go with a foil, the best available for your rig is the SE Sport 300.

hally
21-07-2014, 12:24 PM
Mate don't go any other foil but a permatrim the best by far. Had a permatrim on my last boat jump straight out the hole way better then anything else on the market, a little pricey but worth it

Smithy
23-07-2014, 04:28 AM
Only way to go are the LZ or Lazilas upward sloping ones from BIAS. Cheapest around at about $49. Don't like them you have only spent $49 and got 4 holes in your cav plate. I have put them on a heap of boats now as well as mates boats and transformed quite a few.

Towie0
23-07-2014, 10:27 AM
Solas are very good i have had them do a few stainless for me.

I just dropped from a 13 inch to an 11 inch prop on my 4.5 plate & its heavy tooo... Man what a huge difference it pops up like a Ski boat now.

Seahorse
23-07-2014, 05:54 PM
Thanks Towie.
i will call them tomorrow

dazyz1
24-07-2014, 05:38 PM
What sort of top speed are you getting out of your rig? I've got a Quinny 440 side console with a big casting deck, kill tank, two batteries, live tank etc and a 40hp Etec on the back. Gets on the plane pretty quick with two people, a bit slower with three but I wouldn't say it's sluggish. I'd definitely say your prop or engine height isn't right with a 50

Fisher4life
24-07-2014, 06:56 PM
What sort of top speed are you getting out of your rig? I've got a Quinny 440 side console with a big casting deck, kill tank, two batteries, live tank etc and a 40hp Etec on the back. Gets on the plane pretty quick with two people, a bit slower with three but I wouldn't say it's sluggish. I'd definitely say your prop or engine height isn't right with a 50

What top speed are you getting with the etec, I'm thinking it would be working hard to push all that along?

dazyz1
24-07-2014, 08:24 PM
45 - 50kph wot, the weight doesn't seem to bother it at all.

StevenM
25-07-2014, 01:53 PM
Foils are just a band-aide over a problem and not fixing it. It will solve your issue re getting out of the hole but will develop other issues at the same time.

Ensure the set up of the engine is correct and get the boat propped correctly and it will solve your problem

Si
25-07-2014, 02:16 PM
jenny craig

Smithy
26-07-2014, 06:26 AM
The lines that they are band aid solutions or if outboard manufacturers wanted you to have a foil they would be sold with one are all crap. They work, get over it, put one on and enjoy the benefits of lower planing speed, less bow lift on take off, etc., etc.

StevenM
26-07-2014, 06:51 AM
Until you cross a bar or have a following sea

then enjoy your sideways ride to rollsville

was over it with a previous boat my friend

scottar
26-07-2014, 07:26 AM
Some boats may have issues with foils but personally I have never found one. In my experience, pressed tinnies do benefit from a foil in a couple of ways - bow lift on take off is dramatically reduced and planning speed is reduced to allow travel at a lower speed in rough water. I have run many and varied brands over the years on a variety of boats with a mixture of results. On my current tinny I have a Solas Laser foil but the other hull has trim tabs as the foils were generating sufficient drag to hamper fuel economy and WOT rpm.

metro_fisher
26-07-2014, 10:25 AM
I have a permatrim. I am happy with it. Does everything they say. I got it for a stern heavy boat. Gives you much more control with trim and absolutely improves the performance choppy condition (get the bow down more with trimmed all the way in).

I didn't consider a plastic foil as my research indicated mixed reviews and they overall don't seem as sturdy. Permatrim has only had positive feedback and this is reflected in higher price and the fact they have been around for ages.

You should make sure engine height is right and change props if its a new boat and dealer allows you to do so (cost can be issue with changing props after this stage).

For me, the biggest difference with Permatrim is that boat stays on the plane when at that transitional speed (10-12knots for me). In the past, in sloppy weather, it would be difficult to maintain this kind of speed without the boat falling off the plane in certain wave conditions. I didn't have issues with initial planing. But overall I cant see a Permatrim having any negative impact.

Smithy
26-07-2014, 03:50 PM
Maybe the older Stingrays, Doel Fins, etc., etc. but any mentioned here like the Permatrims, SE Sports and especially the LZs don't have any handling vices. The LZs especially always try and return you to upright due to the upward sloping nature. As it lays over on that side, more foil comes in contact with the water and increases the lift on that side.

bluefin59
26-07-2014, 03:58 PM
Foils are a great and cheap answer to some boat handling issues as mentioned above but you always seem to get the odd bloke who trashes them and then comes up with the following sea and the flipping story ,show me proof of danger it's always the same blokes and others that have read a small snippet of info somewhere and extrapolate it into something way more dangerous than the facts.. Matt