Outrageous Markup on Yamaha Parts

[lutjanus]

How's this for price gouging . Small part for a Yamaha outboard from Yamaha Australia dealer--$15.86.
Same part from dealer in US -$1.69 plus postage to Australia of less than one dollar.
Shame on you Yamaha Australia.

[Red Emperor]

And they reckon the Aussie dealers aren't making money! Some people are also of the opinion the the quality of gear in the US is crap, which is absolute rubbish. Good on you mate, I get most of my gear for home & business from the US these days, otherwise I wouldn't survive.

[wayno60]

Back in my day in the hire industry we used to have marquees that stood via aluminium frames.

The extrusion for these was made in Aust, using our bauxite by Comalco Aust.

Then someone came to light that it can be made in NZ..

So our bauxite was sent to NZ, extruded into the shape we needed, shiped back to Aust and landed back in the factory in sydney cheaper that comalco could do it for in our own backyard.. go figure!!!

[hainsofast]

How's this for price gouging . Small part for a Yamaha outboard from Yamaha Australia dealer--$15.86.
Same part from dealer in US -$1.69 plus postage to Australia of less than one dollar.
Shame on you Yamaha Australia.
hey can you get me that dealer details, I need a new trim sensor, they want 350 bucks odd for one.

[Crunchy]

Yeh post it up lutjanus!

[fisho64]

Use Boats.net, Iboats, BrownsPoint Suzuki etc.
Sadly its true, and easy to get stuff from there.
On top of that all of them have terrific parts catalogues for every make, model year etc.
Ordered my parts 6/6/14 and arrived 5 days ago from Boats.net

Example, genuine oil filter here on Ebay, $27 free post-US $4.68.
Min post about $35, do the maths on what you are after.

[Stuart]

Its not just Yamaha, its every industry. I priced up brand new rotors and calipers, here, $1200, America $350 landed. Brake away system, here, $1600, America $750 landed.
Australia still has its head firmly imbedded in its A hole, if they dont come into line with the rest of the world, well its lights out.

[LittleSkipper]

Yes! The markups from our retailers are outrageous. Hooray! for online shopping.


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[lee8sec]

While i agree the prices are crazy, its not always the retailer & more often its the wholesaler / distributor.


Yes! The markups from our retailers are outrageous. Hooray! for online shopping.


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[Noelm]

That is exactly right, the dealer is making money, but nothing like the difference in the US price, buy overseas if you must, but don't knock the local guy for trying to make a living, just like you and I when we go to work.

[chocolatemoose]

sigh. i might be on the outside here. but as a dealer/retailer.......i could only wish it was true. its not uncommon to make single figures on thousand dollar items.... but. you wont believe me so... never mind :P

[Spaniard_King]

Makes you wonder why so many people buy an outboard without checking what service costs are involved!

CM my sympathies.. the electronics game is so cut throat.

[scottar]

Just remember these threads fella's when you lose your own jobs because whatever you sell or do can be sourced cheaper overseas. You will get no sympathy from me. CM - this is one of the reasons I bailed on the marine game. I got sick of people trying to tell me I was ripping them off.

[fisho64]

so, you guys who are in the game or telling people not to buy overseas-open up and say who IS making the big coin out of this?
Dont pussyfoot around with shadowy figures or "its not me" (I dont disbelieve what your saying CM) but who is it then?
How is it possible to pay retail in the US, posted individually to my doorstep for 1/3 to half retail here, in 8-10 days?

[chocolatemoose]

fisho. i would love to give you that answer. had i have the answer, there would be a fair whack of action to help bring the issue to an end.. fact is.. there are prob dozens of reasons "and yeah greed prob comes up as one" why we pay more.
now of i was brunswick.. and i wanted to sell my mercury motors in australia. which might sell.. say 5% of engines P/A for all of mercury. and yet still needed entire support structures, tech training centres, distrubition centres etc. "factored in with the high cost to do buisness in australia" they are going to have to look at ways to make it pay off. Australia tax they are calling it......and at least in ours "And similar" you are getting a physical thing. its a bit more shady with digital media etc... paying more for data than the rest of the world.

i love this hobby of ours. "as i was saying at the boat show earlier last week.. we are all mental. picking one of the more expensive hobbies on the plannet. we should of taken up darts" so im commited to helping as long as i can. i would imagine there are many like me out there... so whilst im not saying do this or dont do that.... please understand that we are not shifty backroom characters laughing when you walk out the door with a product

most of the time we are thinking... ok so.. another 10 like him today and we can pay ourselves a salary for today.


this is a forum. so there's plenty of love :D


moose

[myusernam]

on the subject, boats.net aren't shipping OEM merc or OMC parts to AUS due to distribution arrangements.
Any websites where you can genuine OMC parts?

[bigpat]

Set up a 'Bongo' account. That way you have a ground shipping address in the USA. Bongo then on send the package to you in AUS.....

[LittleSkipper]

Set up a 'Bongo' account. That way you have a ground shipping address in the USA. Bongo then on send the package to you in AUS.....

Ahhhh!! Very clever.


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[peterbo3]

You want insight................. OK, here is some.::)::) My wife's company is the sole importer for a range of US made heat shrink terminals. The US manufacturer is also a 3M distributor as all the heat shrink tube on the terminals is made by 3M.
Eva can supply 3M heat shrink tube cheaper than 3M wholesales the stuff. We FLY all our stock in from the US & keep probably a KM of tube on hand. 3M & Raychem bring their tube in by sea. 3M also have a big warehouse down south & probably have quite a few staff so their overheads would be high. But we carry a popular range of 3M tube that 3M Australia do not carry.:o:o
As Lucky Phill would say...............GO FIGURE.;D

[stevemid]

It's a tough one. You see jobs going overseas from both here and the US. The US is such a big market but it's still hard to believe that they could sell gear for 1/2 what it can be sold for from here. Then again there's a difference between ordering a one off from the US and have it delivered here (thanks to the boom in on-line shopping and the fall in transport costs) and trying to run a retail store and stock products from the vast array available that someone here might want to buy. You see Bias closing stores and cutting back on stock.

At the end of the day we (and our peers in the US) are getting poorer every year and 500 million Chinese are much better off. But then we've got a long way to fall and they work very hard to get into the middle class earning $5K per year.

In the immortal words of Bob Dylan, "Something is happening but you don't know what it is. Do you Mr. Jones?"

[RayLamp]

I solely blame real estate agents for all of this. Their greed drives up home prices, a house which people need. We've got to get high paying jobs to pay the mortgages / rent, so our workforce is paid highly. Employees become too much of a financial liability, so companies either can't afford to continue (moving manufacturing etc overseas), or they charge higher prices to survive.

So next time you are off to buy some parts for your boat locally, when driving past the real estate agent with their BMW parked out the front of their store front, stick your finger up at them!!!

You don't see the Chinese paying off massive mortgages now, do you :)

[JulianDeMarchi]

I think it's cheaper in the US as they pay their staff fck all. They have one of the lowest minmum wages around. Careful what you wish for or you may end up on a US pay check.

[lutjanus]

Just something else. I can ship a one cubic metre pallet package from China [by sea] cheaper than I can send a small parcel by courier from my home across to the other side of the city . Figure that also

[Gimme5]

Yeah but don't forget their cost of living is a lot lower too. It's not about absolute dollars and cents, it's about purchasing power. You want high wages? Somebody's got to pay for it, money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. That's why prices start going up because businesses need to recover the high cost of labour, rent, services, etc. it's all a vicious circle. I feel a lot has to do with laziness and greed. Americans in general work really hard for less because there's a lot more competition and they don't have the same social welfare services to fall back on.

To another poster, living beyond their means is not a part of Chinese culture. That's why they try to pay off mortgages whenever they can, work and save hard to provide for their family and hopefully leave something for they children in the end. Sounds philosophical but not without merit.


I think it's cheaper in the US as they pay their staff fck all. They have one of the lowest minmum wages around. Careful what you wish for or you may end up on a US pay check.

[stevemid]

I solely blame real estate agents for all of this. Their greed drives up home prices, a house which people need. We've got to get high paying jobs to pay the mortgages / rent, so our workforce is paid highly. Employees become too much of a financial liability, so companies either can't afford to continue (moving manufacturing etc overseas), or they charge higher prices to survive.
You don't see the Chinese paying off massive mortgages now, do you :)

Realestate agents are pressured by on-line sales just like retail (although they do get almost double the US (7% vs 4%) I'd say high house prices in Aus are due to the chronic under supply of houses for a population that is growing naturally and by immigration. IMO, under supply of houses is due to the fact that State Government owns all the land and releases it ever so slowly. This perpetuates a situation where demand is greater than supply and acts to keep prices high. This is in their interest since it also keeps up the stamp duty revenue :(

[Stuart]

Its called economies of scale. Australia has a population of 22 million, America has 370 million. On average, America has some of the lower rents while Australia has some of the highest. America has some of the lowest wages while Australia has one of the highest. In having said that, some of the wholesalers I deal with in my game charge a higher wholesale price than I can buy it at full retail in the USA including delivery. A couple have agreed to higher discount so they at least make some money from me, the other 98% wont, so my money has to go offshore so I can at least remain competitive. I have found most Australian businesses reactive rather than proactive which I think is driving so many to the wall. The other point I would make, is that Australia has way to many fingers in the pie taking there cut before the customer pays the final price. In Australian you have the national agent, then you have the State agent, then you have the retailer, then the customer. In the USA, you have the national agent, then the retailer. Dont even get me started on the Unions, labour rates and all the other add on employers must pay to there employees.

[Noelm]

All these theories and so on are fine, but how in any way shape or form, can an Aussie boat/tackle/auto/whatever compete with an internet price, when he doesn't buy the product for what you can yourself off shore? Lets put a silly slant on something for a second, just suppose you buy your motor from an unknown internet supplier here in Aus, he delivers it in a box by courier, (that you pay for) and from that point on, your on your own, no warranty, no phone call backup, because he has done a deal with an offshore agent and shipped the motors here himself, but he is a lot cheaper than the dealer down the road, who has the motor in stock, can fit it for you, will answer any questions, fix it for you if it breaks, would you still buy from the internet sales guy?? That's where the whole thing falls down, the local guy is not trying to rip you off, he is just trying to earn a living, and he sure as shit cant do that by selling stuff at a loos. How about another silly analogy, lets say unskilled, low paid foreign labour was allowed to flood our country, they start to undercut the local painter/electrician/plumber, because they don't have insurance, workers comp, pay GST and so on, would you get the cheaper guys to paint your house, fix your boat? don't think so, we still want the high paid safe option for our own jobs, but will happily undercut some local company when it suits us! I know we are getting fleeced, but it is NOT the small business owner doing it!!

[Shawn 66]

Its called economies of scale. Australia has a population of 22 million, America has 370 million. On average, America has some of the lower rents while Australia has some of the highest. America has some of the lowest wages while Australia has one of the highest. In having said that, some of the wholesalers I deal with in my game charge a higher wholesale price than I can buy it at full retail in the USA including delivery. A couple have agreed to higher discount so they at least make some money from me, the other 98% wont, so my money has to go offshore so I can at least remain competitive. I have found most Australian businesses reactive rather than proactive which I think is driving so many to the wall. The other point I would make, is that Australia has way to many fingers in the pie taking there cut before the customer pays the final price. In Australian you have the national agent, then you have the State agent, then you have the retailer, then the customer. In the USA, you have the national agent, then the retailer. Dont even get me started on the Unions, labour rates and all the other add on employers must pay to there employees.
Righto ,
So what is your solution ? Do the employees accept a poverty line wage , whilst still trying to survive in one of the most elevated cost of living environments in the world ?
Not being personal , just curious.
Shawn

[Stuart]

Noelm,

I already understand all the examples you have stated, but try to understand that Im stating the facts as they currently stand, sticking your head in the sand wont fix anything. Whats the solution, well I would be asking, what are the solution's to the multitude of issues with in the retail sector in Australia? If your happy to pay 50% or more then by all means go for it.

One example I will give though. To redo do all the windows and doors seals on my F250 would cost over $1000 in Australia. The exact same kit landed from the States cost me $290, so according to the above statements, I should be a true patriot and coff up the extra $710 so I can help keep someone in a job for 1 week? Makes no sense and I simply cant see the logic in any of that. No, its certanly not the retailers fault, the blame lands at the feet of the Australian Agents.

[Stuart]

[/B][/I]
Righto ,
So what is your solution ? Do the employees accept a poverty line wage , whilst still trying to survive in one of the most elevated cost of living environments in the world ?
Not being personal , just curious.
Shawn

Thats the point Shawn. I face the same cost of living pressure myself, so your suggesting I should pay more when I have the option to save a substantial amount???? Your essentially asking me to pay much more for a product when Im under the exact same system as the employee your speaking of above. If you feel so strongly, then by all means, support your local. I spend a great deal on products in this country, so If I can save some extra here and there, that where my money is going, I have no doubt you do the same, maybe you to have purchased overseas but not honest enough to admit it.

[JulianDeMarchi]

Noelm,
One example I will give though. To redo do all the windows and doors seals on my F250 would cost over $1000 in Australia. The exact same kit landed from the States cost me $290, so according to the above statements, I should be a true patriot and coff up the extra $710 so I can help keep someone in a job for 1 week? Makes no sense and I simply cant see the logic in any of that. No, its certanly not the retailers fault, the blame lands at the feet of the Australian Agents.

Cut the red tape. Cut the import duties. Cut the taxes. The problem lies with our government.

[Shawn 66]

Thats the point Shawn. I face the same cost of living pressure myself, so your suggesting I should pay more when I have the option to save a substantial amount???? Your essentially asking me to pay much more for a product when Im under the exact same system as the employee your speaking of above. If you feel so strongly, then by all means, support your local. I spend a great deal on products in this country, so If I can save some extra here and there, that where my money is going, I have no doubt you do the same, maybe you to have purchased overseas but not honest enough to admit it.

You may be getting slightly confused Stuart.
I have no interest whatsoever in whether you buy products overseas or not ,that is your choice . My post was solely in relation to your comment on Australians wages.
It may also pay you to not assume. I have never purchased overseas. The main reason being , I like to see , feel , and touch any product I buy.
As I said , I am supremely indifferent to you buying in this country or not.
Shawn

[Lovey80]

I think it's cheaper in the US as they pay their staff fck all. They have one of the lowest minmum wages around. Careful what you wish for or you may end up on a US pay check.

A US pay check would be fine if it went with a US cost of living.

[Lovey80]

Yeah but don't forget their cost of living is a lot lower too. It's not about absolute dollars and cents, it's about purchasing power. You want high wages? Somebody's got to pay for it, money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. That's why prices start going up because businesses need to recover the high cost of labour, rent, services, etc. it's all a vicious circle. I feel a lot has to do with laziness and greed. Americans in general work really hard for less because there's a lot more competition and they don't have the same social welfare services to fall back on.

To another poster, living beyond their means is not a part of Chinese culture. That's why they try to pay off mortgages whenever they can, work and save hard to provide for their family and hopefully leave something for they children in the end. Sounds philosophical but not without merit.

I think you're half right here. And certainly wrong on money not coming out of thin air. That's exactly where it comes from! Just that the average joe on the street can't do it without being put in gaol.

It all starts with the RBA and their mandate to constantly increase the cost of everything. Think of the 2-3% target inflation rate. They pull the levers on credit expansion to try to ensure this happens. Credit is how 97% of our currency is spawned into existence. When ever someone takes out a house loan, the bank takes control over the deed and creates the money into someone's account. No one else's account has the money withdrawn from it.

It' why as more and more time goes one the smaller and smaller size of a bank run will bring the whole deck of cards tumbling down. Get ready for Cyprus style bail ins.

all that money created into the system causes the price rises, which causes the pressure in wage rises which makes us so uncompetitive with Asia.

[ovakil]

A US pay check would be fine if it went with a US cost of living.

I could deal with that.
I had spoken to some tradies from there & they're on similar money to me.
I would like to have there cost of living.

[fisho64]

now of i was brunswick.. and i wanted to sell my mercury motors in australia. which might sell.. say 5% of engines P/A for all of mercury. and yet still needed entire support structures, tech training centres, distrubition centres etc. "factored in with the high cost to do buisness in australia"

. please understand that we are not shifty backroom characters laughing when you walk out the door with a product

most of the time we are thinking... ok so.. another 10 like him today and we can pay ourselves a salary for today.


moose

So who are the shifty backroom characters mentioned in your analogy?
Is Brunswick marking it up 100%?
Others such as Suzuki who do not distribute their own here, who is making the money from it? Haines? they dont have their own network I believe, it goes to local yards who also say they have to buy at a high price with little markup.
So is it Suzuki US (who allow parts to be sent from US to here at 1/4 of the price anyhow) or is it Haines who mark up the outboards and parts by 50-400%?

Everybody says "we make almost nothing from these". Most are likely telling the truth-but someone must be telling porky pies

[Gimme5]

Banks can't "create" money just for the hack of it and put it into someone's account. Every dollar that they lend out is a "real" dollar which must be covered by their own capital, deposits from Mom/Pop or borrowings from the interbank market. In other words the money has to come from somewhere. How else is the seller of the house (in your example) going to get paid?


I think you're half right here. And certainly wrong on money not coming out of thin air. That's exactly where it comes from! Just that the average joe on the street can't do it without being put in gaol.

It all starts with the RBA and their mandate to constantly increase the cost of everything. Think of the 2-3% target inflation rate. They pull the levers on credit expansion to try to ensure this happens. Credit is how 97% of our currency is spawned into existence. When ever someone takes out a house loan, the bank takes control over the deed and creates the money into someone's account. No one else's account has the money withdrawn from it.

It' why as more and more time goes one the smaller and smaller size of a bank run will bring the whole deck of cards tumbling down. Get ready for Cyprus style bail ins.

all that money created into the system causes the price rises, which causes the pressure in wage rises which makes us so uncompetitive with Asia.

[Lovey80]

Gimme5 when the majority of the population fully understands this is not the case things will change. What you are saying is not correct.

They get paid when the bank lodges the mortgage and the currency spawns into existence. The RBA and the royal mint account for about 3% of currency expansion every year. Some years (big lending years) Australia's money supply can expand up to 20% yet only 3% of that is actual cash. They are numbers on either side of a ledger (or nowadays in a computer). Our whole currency system is based on 97% debt 3% cash. A depositor never has his available deposits restricted when a bank loans money out. Both sets of 'money' are in existence at the same time.

The problem is there is multiples of debt compared to the amount of cash/credit available at any one time through the magic of interest. It's why central banks shit themselves any time monetary contraction occurs because any length of time where paying down of debt or liquidation occurs, they can't stay solvent and the system implodes. Hence TARP bailouts from the Fed etc.

Edit: I've used the term 'money' very loosely as currency is widely called money.

[scottar]

There are other costs that are incurred as well. Not sure if anyone has noticed the little C-Tick symbol on the packaging of your electronic gear or not. That is required by government regulation for a retail establishment to legally sell products that have the potential of causing electronic interference. Each model is required to undergo testing at a certified labratory - this testing costs a bomb. The manufacturer then recoups this cost when setting wholesale prices for distributers in Australia. The manufacturing companies don't have uniform prices across the globe for their products. Prices are negotiated on quantites. We simply do not have the buying power in Australia to be competitive against a country like the US. Business models are different as well. Companies like Furuno have company owned distribution and warranty facilities in places like the US because the physical volume of product makes it financially viable. A lot of the retailers that internet buyers would buy from are using "drop shipping". The business is quite literally nothing more than a guy with a computer taking a minimal percentage to process the payment and pass the order on.

A lot of distributers in Australia are not as such company owned because the minimal volume of sales makes it non viable. Depending on the product they are sometimes responsible for the warranty work for said product as well - the manufacturer provides parts only so this is factored in. When dicussing these reasons with various people over the years, a typical response was "well, you need to negotiate better with company XYZ to get a better price. Guess what - the Australian market place is so insignificant on a global scale they don't give a toss. I attended a JRC factory training program in Japan many years ago when working for the JRC national distributor. The numbers read as follows. "Of our total company revenue turnover, 5 % is our Marine section. Of that 5%, (Which by the way included their "High Seas" or Shipping section of which they were the largest in the world) Australian sales make up less than 2%". Less than one tenth of one percent of total company revenue - You can understand why they were none too stressed when we jumped up and down about costings. The only people the Australian market matters to is Australians.

Obviously the numbers and ratios are possibly different for other products but when you have US retailers moving more stock per annum than a national distributor coupled with all the reasons previously discussed re the costs of doing business in our country what hope do we have of being competitive. We are all part of the problem because we love our way of life. We can have the cheaper prices - we need to boost our population by umpteen million to do it. Just wait till I'm gone though hey, I don't like crowds.

[Gimme5]

Lovey80, banks are just a company/business they do not have the authority to "create" or "spawn" currency into existence as you've put it. Only the RBA can do that. Otherwise the world would be in chaos, it just does not work that way. Having $3 and being allowed by the regulators to provide credit up to $10 for example does not equate creating $7 out of thin air by the stroke of a pen. They cannot lend money that they do not have and that $7 which they do not have has to be borrowed or acquired from another party albeit through book entry (as opposed to physically exchanging dollar notes) but that does not mean that they have magically created $7. I'll just leave it as that, boats and fishing are far more interesting to talk about don't you think?

[stevemid]

Banks can't "create" money just for the heck of it and put it into someone's account. Every dollar that they lend out is a "real" dollar which must be covered by their own capital, deposits from Mom/Pop or borrowings from the interbank market. In other words the money has to come from somewhere. How else is the seller of the house (in your example) going to get paid?

That's not exactly true, Gimme5, They have about 5% coverage of their loans. $5 for every $100 loaned out.

[stevemid]

Duplicate post.

[stevemid]

It is not a simple problem, obviously, or else there would be a simple solution. Two factors in this that haven't been aired are history and the rise of globalisation - e.g. internet buying.

Historically, country governments had lots of control over their economies. Australia was a protected environment. Government controlled prices on everything; prices on imports were controlled via duties. The price of labour was also controlled via government wage setting. There wasn't much international trade what was going on elsewhere didn't matter much. However with the rise of globalisation, Australians have been getting more and more exposed to the outside world.

With internet buying, we are finding out that goods made by someone making $50 per week, cost a hell of a lot less than goods made by someone on $500 per week. So we buy them and improve our standard of living. On the flip side of the coin, historically government was able to protect our labour markets. Whatever he produced, however hard he worked or bludged, labour was guaranteed a set wage. This was all fine and good until manufacturers saw what they could get if they move their factories OS to take advantage of the $50 worker. This now meant that the Australian worker was going to have to compete with the Chinese worker - or the Indian or Bangladeshi workers.

So all of the above is playing out - and balancing out over time. Governments set macro economic policies and individuals make micro economic decisions about where to buy. Historically we've had it very good. Historically, the third world has done it very tough. Do we deserve to have it 1000 times better than someone else in the world? How some countries got VERY rich in the first place while others suffered (and continue to suffer) is a wholly different story with some not too pretty sub plots. Suffice it to say that there is dislocation and adjustments that have to be made as globally things even out, but at least it is happening over time.

[chocolatemoose]

i remember reading the figures for garmin, that one store in the US buys more stock PA than garmin australasia. "and considering that often we are cheaper than the US here on garmin. i think we have earnt a pat on the back and a can of coke :D "

[hilta1]

Hey choc m you need to clear you pm inbox so you can accept my very important question. cheers Mark

[chocolatemoose]

all cleared :) sorry about that. didnt get a reminder email.

[stevej]

so, you guys who are in the game or telling people not to buy overseas-open up and say who IS making the big coin out of this?
Dont pussyfoot around with shadowy figures or "its not me" (I dont disbelieve what your saying CM) but who is it then?
How is it possible to pay retail in the US, posted individually to my doorstep for 1/3 to half retail here, in 8-10 days?

the manufacturers dont sell to all countrys equally, they sell at a price the market will put up with
some dealers in the usa are big enough to buy direct, some buy through a wholesale
a single basspro store can sell more humminbird gear then we bring in for the whole country, thats buying power

manufacturer sells to aussie wholesale $10.00
aussie wholesale sells to retailer/dealer $15.00
retailer sells to you for $22.50 + GST so $24.75

many dealers dont mark by 50% which ill be the downfall of their buisnesses

also maybe duty to consider
add the significant freight costs we have moving stuff round our large spread out population
the costs involved in inventory of spare parts
haven forbid your company is successful and you have to pay payroll tax cause you look after your workers or have a large workforce
then consider a forklift driver in the factory here gets $25 a hour versus $10 a hour in the states

more problems going on here then any of you will consider and no one wants to give up the lifestyle we have here
its the cost of living the dream in this country

[fisho64]

the manufacturers dont sell to all countrys equally, they sell at a price the market will put up with
maybe duty to consider
add the significant freight costs we have moving stuff round our large spread out population
the costs involved in inventory of spare parts
haven forbid your company is successful and you have to pay payroll tax cause you look after your workers or have a large workforce
then consider a forklift driver in the factory here gets $25 a hour versus $10 a hour in the states

more problems going on here then any of you will consider and no one wants to give up the lifestyle we have here
its the cost of living the dream in this country

You have some valid points there but others not
-companies supplying countries at marked up prices, if so why would they allow individual export to bypass that?

-significant freight costs, if I can move a single item to my doorstep for a given price then a container load to a warehouse has a per item miniscule cost.

There is no duty (FTA) from US and hopefully the FTA with Japan will provide for some benefit to be passed on.

It just doesnt add up logically to me.
Take for example Suzuki (Haines here). They sell a given part (say an oil filter for my DF115) for about $25-$35 here.
They RETAIL in the US for $5 (boats.net).
Boats.net will box 20 of them and charge $45 to post it here in 7 days.
That is $7.50 per piece buying retail.

Volume? In Australia which has only one importer (Haines) I would expect the volume to be somewhat similar to one of the mid to large retailers in the US

[scottar]

You have some valid points there but others not
-companies supplying countries at marked up prices, if so why would they allow individual export to bypass that?


-significant freight costs, if I can move a single item to my doorstep for a given price then a container load to a warehouse has a per item miniscule cost.

There is no duty (FTA) from US and hopefully the FTA with Japan will provide for some benefit to be passed on.

It just doesnt add up logically to me.
Take for example Suzuki (Haines here). They sell a given part (say an oil filter for my DF115) for about $25-$35 here.
They RETAIL in the US for $5 (boats.net).
Boats.net will box 20 of them and charge $45 to post it here in 7 days.
That is $7.50 per piece buying retail.

Volume? In Australia which has only one importer (Haines) I would expect the volume to be somewhat similar to one of the mid to large retailers in the US


-I can tell you from personal first hand experience it does happen. Why would they allow it - how are they going to stop it. The only avenue they have is to either lift the buy price to the US or wave a big stick at the retailer who may just move more numbers than the Australian wholesaler. Either option could jeopardise a market much larger than our own. Sure, they could drop the price to Australia but why would they want to do that. We buy naff all and don't trouble the major players market places. To them we are the noisey little upstart who is way less important than we think we are. When we asked how we could get the same buy prices the answer was "Simple - commit to same purchase quantity. 10 000 Units." We used to order a few hundred at a time and had to pay upfront.

-On Boats.net's own website - "size matters".

A Snapshot of Recreational Boating in America

Dr.Glenn E. Haas, Professor Emeritus, Colorado State University

March 15, 2010






Participation Figures




82 million adult Americans participated in recreational boating





U.S. Forest Service, 2009




12.7 million boats registered in the United States





U.S. Coast Guard, 2009




2020 projections of the number of adult recreationists:
60.4 million motorboaters 23.3 million canoers
21.1 million PWC users 20.9 million rafters
19.1 million waterskiers 13.5 million kayakers
11.4 million sailing 9.7 million rowers





U.S. Coast Guard, 2009




25.8 million fishing participants were boating





Recreational Boating and Fishing Foundation 2009







Economic Figures




$30.8 billion in recreational boating sales and services





National Marine Manufacturers Association, 2009 report




$21+ billion in recreational boating trip expenditures





Recreational Marine Research Center, 2009




$44+ billion total impact value added




Recreational Marine Research Center, 2009




18,940 boating businesses

154,300 people employed




National Marine Manufacturers Association, 2009 report







Boating Safety




4,730 boating accidents
736 deaths & 3,358 injuries
$36 million dollars of damage from recreational boating accidents.





U.S. Coast Guard, 2010

Recreational Boating Statistics

(2009 statistics)




86% of deaths occurred on boats where the operator had not received any boating safety instruction/course.





U.S. Coast Guard, 2010

Recreational Boating Statistics

(2009 statistics)




76% of anglers boat fishing did not complete a boating safety course.





U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 2006




The National Recreation Boating Safety Program performance goal:
2010 - 675 deaths 2011 - 659 deaths




Strategic Plan of the

National Recreational Boating Safety Program 2007-2011




Note: All data in this chart are the mostrecently available.

By contrast, Australia has as best I have been able to find about 850 thousand registered boats with a participation level of about 5 million. See the difference? Boating is on a scale in the US that we can't even begin to comprehend in Australia. Add to this the international sales via the websites - the US boating companies like boats.net rule the roost. Anyone tries to ruffle their feathers, they threaten the manufacturers. Money talks.

[fisho64]

That is pretty much what Id expect, at least in terms of the number of registered boats.
Most of the rest is not comparable-how many "participated" in boating is like measuring a rubber band depending on who set the criteria.
Total boats, somewhat less than 10%.
With one importer for say Suzuki for the whole country, thats not significantly different to one of the major US retailers on its own.

If as you allude, "they dont care", then why should anyone else?
I get the "buy local" stuff, but from Haines I have been able to get almost no technical help anyhow and there is no local Suzi bloke.

[stevemid]

.............
With one importer for say Suzuki for the whole country, thats not significantly different to one of the major US retailers on its own.

If as you allude, "they dont care", then why should anyone else?
I get the "buy local" stuff, but from Haines I have been able to get almost no technical help anyhow and there is no local Suzi bloke.
Regarding Suzuki, and this is a bit off topic, but when a manufacturer (such as honda or yamaha) sets up "direct" operations in a country, he makes a major investment to adequately support the reputation of his brand in all respects. This is much larger an investment than say Haines would make.

You are seeing the result of that.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[scottar]

That is pretty much what Id expect, at least in terms of the number of registered boats.
Most of the rest is not comparable-how many "participated" in boating is like measuring a rubber band depending on who set the criteria.
Total boats, somewhat less than 10%.
With one importer for say Suzuki for the whole country, thats not significantly different to one of the major US retailers on its own.

If as you allude, "they dont care", then why should anyone else?
I get the "buy local" stuff, but from Haines I have been able to get almost no technical help anyhow and there is no local Suzi bloke.

I can tell you that every person involved in the Australian Marine Industry, who depends on it to put a roof over their heads and keep their kids fed cares a great deal. I get the financial pressure side of it - I lived it while working in the marine game, but if we all adopt the buy it overseas because it's cheaper mentallity, what happens then and I don't just mean with marine. As Australian industries are placed under these sort of pressures and fail (and they are ) the effects are going to snowball and gather momentum. At some point government will have to step in and I really don't expect that lot to get it right, whoever is in power at the time.

The American market place extends beyond America due to their cost benefits so your estimate of 10% I suspect would be incorrect. There are quite a few guys on this site alone purchasing overseas. Any country around the world I expect would be the same. Take those numbers out of the local economies and add them to together and I suspect they would not be insignificant.

As for your dealings with Haines, I wasn't there so can't comment. One can only assume they would prefer you to communicate through a dealer, local or otherwise. After all, thats why they are there. As a wholesaler you set up dealer networks because you can't handle the volume of business on a personal level due to sheer numbers or distance. I am sure they would love to be able to do it all and cut a margin out of their product but it will never happen. Having made the decision to go the dealer network route, you have to support them by channeling all business through them.

[bluefin59]

The problem with SOME of the dealers in the marine industry is they act like they don't need your business , I had a situation recently where a particular dealer had copped a flogging over a motor on this site and rightly so. I phoned this dealer for a quote on a boat worth more than 50k and gave him my details , checked twice and a week later still no quote . I phoned them got them to put me through to the owner and all he could do is come up with was we are busy we will get to you , well a week later still nothing what a loser . No wonder people take their money overseas as something the yanks are good at is CUSTOMER service . My boat is Aussie built and assembled but I was close to buying offshore as the money would buy a lot more boat ... Matt

[Stuart]

Spot on Matt. Customer service in this country leaves a lot to be desired. You would think if things are so tough why they never return emails, or phone calls. Well, I dont bother doing the chasing anymore, however I do make the point of letting the manager of that slack business know that I just spent $ with company X. I spent a small fortune on Furuno electronics, but it did take 3 companies in QLD to before I got one that actually wanted my business. Again, most didnt get back to, one did after 2 months. I just cant figure it out nor do I care.

[Fed]

I could spot one of 'those' customers in the first 30 seconds then treated them like crap until they gave up and went somewhere else.
Some on here will know what I mean.
In case any slipped through the cracks I used to do a cull every 6 Months or so.