PDA

View Full Version : Refused fuel at bowser.



bigjimg
18-04-2014, 09:01 PM
I enjoyed a glorious day at Tangalooma today with the family and some tag along friends of the kids.
It was tarnished at the end of the day at the local service station where I have been refuelling my boats and cars for the last 17 years.
I had the pump nozzle in the fuel filler but the pump would not activate.
I thought that's odd, so I wandered in to the attendant to see what the problem was.
He asked what are you filling and I told him the boat fuel tank with 95 premium.

He then went on to say no I am not going to let you fill that. I asked why not I've been filling this boat here for 5 years.
He just said no I am not letting you fill it see the manager next week.
I told him to root his boot and left more than annoyed.

I am not interested in an explanation so my business will be taken else where.

I can just imagine the B#@llsh%$t logic behind it. Jim

NTMID8
18-04-2014, 09:08 PM
How strange, never heard of being refused fuel

gazza2006au
18-04-2014, 09:14 PM
hey jim if u have been getting fuel from this place for 5 years i wouldnt goto another servo its hard to come by good fuel these days just speaker to the manager and hopefully this attendant gets his ring chewed out

u should have said to the attendant there goes $300 worth of fuel champ

astro66
18-04-2014, 10:52 PM
my local bp they make you put your tank on the ground ...bit hard with a under floor tank though...

rayken1938
19-04-2014, 03:48 AM
The attendant was correct risk of explosion. All portable containers must be on ground.
Cheers
Ray

Noelm
19-04-2014, 05:44 AM
Do we know he was filling a portable container? The attendant did not ask him to put a portable container on the ground, he was just told no! Well, that's the way I read it.

bennykenny
19-04-2014, 06:43 AM
unlikely that a Haines 580F has a portable fuel tank. though I did read somewhere a month or so ago that the might stop serving boats at petrol stations, I can remember the details of this though.
hope you go back to the manager just to find out the reason, would be good to know why they refused you service.

Nslfishing
19-04-2014, 06:44 AM
Where is this servo Jim. Is it possible to walk from the beach with a jerrycan. Sorry to hijack but if I could top up on the way to hutchies that would be sweet.

Cheers nic

outwide1
19-04-2014, 07:18 AM
The attendant was correct risk of explosion. All portable containers must be on ground.
Cheers
Ray
So does that mean we have to drop our tanks in our cars on the ground each time?

Noelm
19-04-2014, 09:09 AM
It is a safety requirement that all portable tanks be placed on the ground prior to filling, a safeguard against a static discharge, but inbuilt tanks it is not possible (of course) cars have an earth system in the filler, and the pump nozzle is also earthed to eliminate possible static build up.

Chimo
19-04-2014, 09:29 AM
Hi Bigjimg

If you have ever refueled a light aircraft you will be familiar with the earth wire that is run out from the fuel bowser and clipped onto the tab adjacent to the tank inlet on the aircraft wing.
Perhaps next time you call in to the garage you could run your own earth wire out to the inlet to the boat tank with the other end earthed to the water tap stake or similar by the pump. Kidding don't do it or they will want everyone to do it! Some servos do have an earth strap so you don't even have to take your own.

By the way how many boats have caught fire or blown up while on their trailers and being refuelled at servos? Not talking about inboards where the bilge blower has not been used after refuelling at marinas.

Talk about a nanny world we are living in.

Cheers
Chimo

SatNav
19-04-2014, 10:39 AM
1. The one critical unknown that has not been provided/confirmed here is was this a portable/removable type fuel tank or other?

fisho64
19-04-2014, 11:22 AM
1. The one critical unknown that has not been provided/confirmed here is was this a portable/removable type fuel tank or other?
2. Yes

kiwimex
19-04-2014, 11:27 AM
I was filling up Jerry jugs on there back of my ute yesterday, the attendant came out to see what I was doing and he was quite happy that there was a rubber mat separation between my jugs and the ute tray...! He did mention that if I did not have the rubber mat the jugs would have to be fuelled on the ground.

Si
19-04-2014, 11:41 AM
I think old mate might be a bit confused.

Chimo
19-04-2014, 11:47 AM
Kiwimex there is still a risk of fire filling on mats etc up off the ground into portable containers in the back of a truck / ute.

DHHS (NIOSH) Publication Number 98-111

Fire Hazard from Filling Portable Gas Cans in Pickup Trucks and Cars

Description of Hazard

In recent incidents reported to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), fires spontaneously ignited when workers or others attempted to fill portable gasoline containers (gas cans) in the backs of pickup trucks equipped with plastic bed liners or in cars with carpeted surfaces. Serious skin burns and other injuries resulted. Similar incidents in the last few years have resulted in warning bulletins from several private and government organizations.
These fires result from the buildup of static electricity. The insulating effect of the bed liner or carpet prevents the static charge generated by gasoline flowing into the container or other sources from grounding. The discharge of this buildup to the grounded gasoline dispenser nozzle may cause a spark and ignite the gasoline. Both ungrounded metal (most hazardous) and plastic gas containers have been involved in these incidents.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-111/images/hid2fg1.gif
Fire Hazard: Filling gas can in pickup truck with plastic bed liner.
Safe Practice: Always place gas can on ground before refueling. Touch can with gas dispenser nozzle before removing can lid. Keep gas dispenser nozzle in contact with can inlet when filling.
Recommendations For Prevention

Construction workers and others in small businesses who often work with gasoline-powered equipment commonly use portable gasoline containers. Homeowners use gasoline cans for their lawn mowers and other equipment.


Avoid the hazardous practice of leaving the portable gasoline containers in pickup trucks or cars when refueling!
Before filling, always remove the containers from the vehicle and place them on the ground at a safe distance from the vehicle (provides path to dissipate static charge to ground).
Touch the container with the gas dispenser nozzle before removing the container lid (provides another path to dissipate static charge to ground).
Keep the nozzle in contact with the container inlet when filling (to dissipate static charge buildup from flow of gasoline).

Additional measures for prevention include the following:


Manufacturers or retailers: Place a hazard label on all plastic liners being sold warning workers not to fill portable gas containers in the bed liner of the truck but always to place the containers on the ground before filling.
Gas stations: Display a warning notice near gas pumps to place all portable gas containers on the ground before filling.
States: Provide a warning notification to owners and users when new vehicles are licensed or when license plates are renewed.
Manufacturers: Build bed liners that can be grounded to the metal truck bed, thereby dissipating potential electrostatic charge.

Acknowledgments

The principal contributors to this publication are: Jerome P. Flesch, Elaine Mann, G. Kent Hatfield, Heinz Ahlers, Richard Carlson, and Rosmarie T. Hagedorn, NIOSH; Richard Yallits, City of Winnipeg, Canada Fire Department; William Rowe, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission

kiwimex
19-04-2014, 12:49 PM
Yeah me too...!

fishing111
19-04-2014, 12:53 PM
What about all these guy's who carry extra fuel at times in plastic jerry conatiners/totes, can they build up a static charge in the boat if on carpet and moving around in ordinary sea conditions full of fuel? What's the best practice apart from securing the jerry's as good as you can?

Stuart
19-04-2014, 01:53 PM
Im no electrician, but your car and trailer sit on rubber tires, so how is that grounded? Whats the difference between filling in the back of the ute, boat or boot when nothing is grounded anyway? I cant imagine how many boats have been filled up and I have never heard of one that went boom. Safety BS gone overboard. I would think breathing in the fumes to be more dangerous long term.

Noelm
19-04-2014, 02:38 PM
We are talking static charge, you need to fully understand how it works. The danger is real, does it happen often?? No certainly not, has it ever happened?? Yep, sure has, and the servo owner is bound to ensure you place all containers on the ground to fill them, but this is still not identified if the poster was indeed filling a portable tank, so whether there is a danger or not is not in question here.... Yet!

bigjimg
19-04-2014, 11:42 PM
Guy's I can confirm that the boat has a 150ltr plastic fuel tank under the floor. This is connected to the stainless deck filler via rubber fuel hose.
The stainless deck fuel cap and surround are connected to an earth strap in the boat.
The station in question is the Woollies Caltex on the cnr Beaudesert and Hamilton Rds.
They also don't let you get in shop items before 0700 even though they open at 0600.Something about council regulations.

And yes sometimes I have refuelled the boat after an offshore trip for 90-100 ltrs and refuelled the car for 120 or so litres for the better part of $290.
I might go down there on Tuesday to chat with this manager, I should have calmed down by then, maybe.

If this is the way things are heading an alternative should be in place.
I'll give the Caltex at Burbank a call tomorrow and see what they have to say as I go past that one when coming back from Manly.

I am still shaking my head on this one, it is just ridiculous. Jim.

paullee
20-04-2014, 07:04 AM
Hi Jim that is absoloutely ridiculous. Sounds like the moron behind the counter was on some sort of uneducated power trip. I would get an answer fronm his boss and then not go back anyway.As for those doubting the whole jerry can/ static/ grounding thing...it happenend in Sydney a few years back. Jerry can caught fire due to lady holding it with one hand and filling it with the other. Her car and a few bowsers went up as well. Plenty of examples on you-tube i would imagine,,,,,

stevej
20-04-2014, 07:27 AM
skip them and just ring woolies head office and ask for clarification, its a chain store the manager answers to someone

Urgent Product SafetyEmergency Contact24 Hr Support Telephone 1 800 638 434

stevej
20-04-2014, 07:27 AM
or their fuel specific number

To speak to a representative at our
national Customer Support Centre
Telephone 1 300 655 055
Monday to Friday 8am to 8pm
Saturday 9am to 5pm
Sunday 9am to 5pm
To visit the Woolworths Petrol
Woolworths Petrol Contact Us

docaster
20-04-2014, 10:19 AM
Everything is going to plastic fuel tanks now, so i think the danger is in not letting the nozzle touch the filler spout, thus not earthing out as such. I always make sure the nozzle is making contact with the filler neck. With portable tanks people are more likely to hover the nozzle sort of mid air because the tank is lighter.

Chimo
20-04-2014, 10:29 AM
High speed filling with quick flow bowser pumps can also create static electricity so the nozzle making contact with filler neck is critical in that circumstance too.

docaster
20-04-2014, 10:29 AM
Always touch the nozzle to the cap or spout before you open the tank, as the nozzle is earthed through the hose. This is of course is when your in the boat and not standing on the ground. Or get old mate to hold onto the boat while your in the boat lol.

docaster
20-04-2014, 10:33 AM
High speed filling with quick flow bowser pumps can also create static electricity so the nozzle making contact with filler neck is critical in that circumstance too.

Yea i remember a while back they slowed down the fuel delivery rates, for this reason i guess. oops showing my age. We complained on how long it now takes to fill up.

aussiebasser
20-04-2014, 10:55 AM
XA Falcon was the first Aussie car with a plastic fuel tank. After a couple went boom there was a recall to fit an earth strap to the filler neck wasn't there?

lee8sec
20-04-2014, 04:53 PM
XA Falcon was the first Aussie car with a plastic fuel tank. After a couple went boom there was a recall to fit an earth strap to the filler neck wasn't there?
XD Falcon, first with the plastic tank.. And yes your correct, they had a recall to fit earth straps to the metal top section of the neck for this reason.

aussiebasser
21-04-2014, 11:47 AM
Sorry, yep, was the XD, fuel filler under the number plate

chris69
21-04-2014, 12:47 PM
unlikely that a Haines 580F has a portable fuel tank. though I did read somewhere a month or so ago that the might stop serving boats at petrol stations, I can remember the details of this though.
hope you go back to the manager just to find out the reason, would be good to know why they refused you service.


I asked the lady attendant at a servo about stopping boats filling and she had not heard of anything but she said she would look into it as they do a lot of boat business.

SatNav
21-04-2014, 01:09 PM
1. May not be totally applicable in this particular case? but of worthy note that on commercial vessels ANY fuel in "approved" portable containers must be securely fastened to the vessel and must be located that in the event of a spillage NO fuel can drain into spaces below the deck/floor.

2. Any fuel carried on deck even in purpose built non portable and portable containers is classed as dangerous goods requiring additional safety measures to be compiled with.

3. So the question would be? Is fuel used by recreational users somehow different to fuel used by commercial operators?

Giffo65
21-04-2014, 02:11 PM
I have been a career firie for 25 years, never been to a boat fire in a servo that was refueling ! Even ones with tote tanks !.Not saying that it has never happened anywhere though.

ozscott
21-04-2014, 04:02 PM
Its just isolated. A thread like this was around on here some years ago. If you cant refuel at servos people could not use their boats. Cheers

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

bigjimg
22-04-2014, 11:30 AM
Guy's and Girls I have contacted the number Stevej supplied and was transferred to the station manager. We had a civilised chat and it has been confirmed that the attendant in question was way out of line.
They have NO policy to refuse a boat owner of filling an in built fuel tank. This staff member is in HOT WATER.
I will continue to refuel at this station, glad I made the call. Jim

Moonlighter
22-04-2014, 11:37 AM
Good work Jim. Seems like a case of staff member either ill-informed or misunderstood something, and as a result, stuffed up badly.