Moreton Bay Marine Park Meeting concering 800 berth Marina 10am Sunday

[Bobpen]

If you care about the dredging of intertidal mudflats and seagrass beds in a Marine Park to build a marina
please come to a meeting in the G.J.Walter Park 10 am Sunday at Cleveland.
The G.J.Walter park users want to make a statement about saving something for future generations.
Some of them are dog walkers which is why the meeting has a silly name.
This issue is a simple one for anyone who fishes.
Don't expect someone else to fight for the Marine Park on your behalf.
EPA and Fisheries have no power to stop "essential infrastructure" projects.
Get out and do something.
Take your children. It is their fishing future.

See you all there.

[gruntahunta]

What do dog walkers have to protest about?....

[Bobpen]

What do dog walkers have to protest about?....

Loss of the beach.

The current public beach front will be replaced by a rock wall of a private marina.
Also a new road is proposed through the park through the dog off-leash area.
The road also cuts the cricket pitch in half. That will be awkward.

[honda900]

EPA and Fisheries have already made enough mistakes think yourself lucky they are not involved.. BTW how may people do you see standing down there and catching fish? do you not think a marina might have some benefits like provide structure for fish habitats? at the moment quite frankly its, just gravel/mud flat.

Do you not see the economic benefits it might bring?

What will the dog walkers do for the economy?

do you not think a properly maintained harbour may not be better than the current situation with boat wash destroying the environment?

Regards
Honda.

[Bobpen]

EPA and Fisheries have already made enough mistakes think yourself lucky they are not involved.. BTW how may people do you see standing down there and catching fish? do you not think a marina might have some benefits like provide structure for fish habitats? at the moment quite frankly its, just gravel/mud flat.

Do you not see the economic benefits it might bring?

What will the dog walkers do for the economy?

do you not think a properly maintained harbour may not be better than the current situation with boat wash destroying the environment?

Regards
Honda.


Despite the turbidity the area also has patches seagrass actually. Juvenile fish and other organisms may require different habitat they don't just colonise reef. Some even use the mud substrate. The deep water required for moorings does not allow enough light for seagrass to survive in turbid waters. In turbid water the seagrass only gets enough light at low water. There is dense seagrass just south of Fison Channel before the bank.
Any damage to the environment from the ferry boat wash in the existing channel has stabilized after over 30 years.
The 800 moorings have nothing to do with the ferry operations. They are further north and it is planned to cut a new channel north of Cassim to keep the small boats away from the commercial operations. Obviously you have no idea what is going on.
Economic benefits from renting or selling marina berths dredged in a public marine park: probably. I could also make money if someone gave me a few acres of National Park too but I think there are laws about that.

So lets stuff the fishing and get on to an online real-estate site. (NOT HERE) Get rid of the fishing boat, get a cabin cruiser and anchor at Peel for the week-end .

You can tell your children and grand-children about the good old days when there were fish in the bay. Oh the yarns you can tell.

[honda900]

Despite the turbidity the area also has patches seagrass actually. Juvenile fish and other organisms may require different habitat they don't just colonise reef. Some even use the mud substrate. The deep water required for moorings does not allow enough light for seagrass to survive in turbid waters. In turbid water the seagrass only gets enough light at low water. There is dense seagrass just south of Fison Channel before the bank.
Any damage to the environment from the ferry boat wash in the existing channel has stabilized after over 30 years.
The 800 moorings have nothing to do with the ferry operations. They are further north and it is planned to cut a new channel north of Cassim to keep the small boats away from the commercial operations. Obviously you have no idea what is going on.
Economic benefits from renting or selling marina berths dredged in a public marine park: probably. I could also make money if someone gave me a few acres of National Park too but I think there are laws about that.

So lets stuff the fishing and get on to an online real-estate site. (NOT HERE) Get rid of the fishing boat, get a cabin cruiser and anchor at Peel for the week-end .

You can tell your children and grand-children about the good old days when there were fish in the bay. Oh the yarns you can tell.


Which agency or green group do you belong to?

So you're telling me that there are no fish in the harbours as the fish have all been killed of due to environmental changes.. Perhaps you need to look at a map to see how far those types of areas extend in Moreton bay.

How many people in boats have you seen at that spot anchored in 1 foot of water catching fish?
How many people have you seen fishing from the bank on that rocky ground in front of that park? None.. is the real answer to both questions.

No fish in Manly boat harbour?? Rock walls not protecting the surrounding environment?
Rock walls haven't provided additional spots for land based anglers?
Raby Bay, no fish their either due to habitat destruction?
and the new structure wouldn't encourage other growth or habitat that would be beneficial to the marine ecosystem?

Have you heard about the artificial reefs in moreton bay? have you visited the Tiwi pearl ? or some of the reef balls to see if they encouraged the marine ecosystems?

More likely you have a personal interest with local residents along the foreshore.

Regards
Honda.

[TimiBoy]

I live in Cleveland and I cannot wait for the development. Bobpen is probably one of the ageing hippy wankers I gave what for last Sunday at the markets, hanging around with their pathetic little stand and their NIMBY attitudes. Get stuffed mate. The people of Cleveland want Cleveland to be something other than a place you go through to get somewhere else.

Where were you when we were trying to do something about the second runway and the creeks with their masses of mangroves? Dirty Greenie

[TimiBoy]

Yep, all the Greens need to kill all development is apologists

[Steeler]

Wholly mackerel, does this chap have an anger management problem or what? :furious2:

Hope he doesn't own his own business with that attitude. :stunned:

Yep but you get used to it. Timi is one of these glass houses types.

Some of us will remember when he got on here not so long ago banging on about mental health issues and people slagging and how thay can be triggers and then he himself comes up with these little tirades.

[Marlin_Mike]

Hang On, Hang On.....slow down. Let me go get my chair, and some popcorn and drinks.......................... bitch fight bitch fight...........bring it on.

These arguments are always heated and passionate. There are 3 sides to these debates................ greenies opinion, developers opinion, and somewhere in between lies the truth.

Point is, why cant you all be grown up about it, put forward your opinion, and respect the other parties opinion without slinging all the $hyte at each other. In the end, what happens will happen through a majority opinion/decision. hopefully...............................

[tunaticer]

What would you like to see there in 50 years time??
What use of there area will there be there in 50 years time if some form of development does not take place?
Personally I think those shore fronts down there are far from natural as they stand currently. There has been lots of things that have depleted the "natural" environment there in the past two centuries and that state of decay will continue unless it is developed to create a better environment.

As far as the Airport reclaimation issue, I am for it going ahead. There is a large swathe of mangroves and swamp gound that has been levelled and filled, but the benefits are there for us all to use with better convenience.

I think that planting mangrove forests will be the next phase of future developments especially in shallow areas likethe foreshores of Sandgate to the mouth of the Brisie River. There is very little stopping that sort of forestation apart from some small breakwalls set off the shore to start the buildup of sediments along there. In 50 or so years it could develop into an everglades type environment with great canals and creeks and flood areas.

[rayken1938]

The sand/ mudflats are a vital part of the ecosystem and because they do not look pretty is no justification for their removal.
Do you really wish to see Cleveland and the rest of the Redlands turning into another Gold Coast and all its problems,.
Anyhow its too late as submissions have closed and greed will have its way.
Cheers
Ray

[Mike Delisser]

I'm not sure the waterfront down there needs 15 story apartment blocks though.

Redland Times Feb 4th 2014
"AN 800-boat marina, a public beach, a waterfront promenade with restaurants, cafes, shops and offices and buildings up to 15 storeys high are part of the vision for the Toondah Harbour area of Cleveland released for public discussion on Friday by the state government."

[Bobpen]

[QUOTE=honda900;1537597]Which agency or green group do you belong to?

So you're telling me that there are no fish in the harbours as the fish have all been killed of due to environmental changes.. Perhaps you need to look at a map to see how far those types of areas extend in Moreton bay.

How many people in boats have you seen at that spot anchored in 1 foot of water catching fish?
How many people have you seen fishing from the bank on that rocky ground in front of that park? None.. is the real answer to both questions.

No fish in Manly boat harbour?? Rock walls not protecting the surrounding environment?
Rock walls haven't provided additional spots for land based anglers?
Raby Bay, no fish their either due to habitat destruction?
and the new structure wouldn't encourage other growth or habitat that would be beneficial to the marine ecosystem?

Have you heard about the artificial reefs in moreton bay? have you visited the Tiwi pearl ? or some of the reef balls to see if they encouraged the marine ecosystems?

More likely you have a personal interest with local residents along the foreshore.

Regards
Honda.[/QUOT


You are not really worth replying too. Try reading about intertidal habitat.
FYI: Intertidal is between high and low water. What has this to do with the Tiwi Pearl and artificial reefs.
If or when you find out anything at all get back to me.
The closest I would get to being a "Greenie" is feeding pilchards to fish at Mud Island.
Try this :-)
http://www.vliz.be/wiki/Seagrass_meadows
Thanks

[Bobpen]

I live in Cleveland and I cannot wait for the development. Bobpen is probably one of the ageing hippy wankers I gave what for last Sunday at the markets, hanging around with their pathetic little stand and their NIMBY attitudes. Get stuffed mate. The people of Cleveland want Cleveland to be something other than a place you go through to get somewhere else.

Where were you when we were trying to do something about the second runway and the creeks with their masses of mangroves? Dirty Greenie bastard, I hope you fall off a boat and no one finds you.

You must really want one of those "essential 800 infra-structure marina berths" at Toondah.
Why not just get a berth at Manly? It is handy for Mud Island, Harries etc

By the way I carry a personal EPIRB :-)

If I found you in the water I would at least pick you up.

Garbage kills turtles. :-)

[rayken1938]

"{Dirty Greenie bastard, I hope you fall off a boat and no one finds you."
Precisely the type of person that we do not need in the Redlands.
Cheers
Ray

[gruntahunta]

I can feel a couple of life bans coming on.

[Bobpen]

"{Dirty Greenie bastard, I hope you fall off a boat and no one finds you."
Precisely the type of person that we do not need in the Redlands.
Cheers
Ray


Are marinas in intertidal areas good for recreational fishing? You seem to have missed the point.

FYI: I don't own a dog and I don't use the "Off leash" area.

[JulianDeMarchi]

Are marinas in intertidal areas good for recreational fishing? You seem to have missed the point.

Ray wasn't referring to you bud.

[rayken1938]

I was referring to the person who made the post not to you Bobpen.
I have been a resident /worked in the redlands for over 55 years and am very concerned over the demise of the natural marine habitat in the area.
Cheers
Ray

[honda900]

[QUOTE=honda900;1537597]Which agency or green group do you belong to?

So you're telling me that there are no fish in the harbours as the fish have all been killed of due to environmental changes.. Perhaps you need to look at a map to see how far those types of areas extend in Moreton bay.

How many people in boats have you seen at that spot anchored in 1 foot of water catching fish?
How many people have you seen fishing from the bank on that rocky ground in front of that park? None.. is the real answer to both questions.

No fish in Manly boat harbour?? Rock walls not protecting the surrounding environment?
Rock walls haven't provided additional spots for land based anglers?
Raby Bay, no fish their either due to habitat destruction?
and the new structure wouldn't encourage other growth or habitat that would be beneficial to the marine ecosystem?

Have you heard about the artificial reefs in moreton bay? have you visited the Tiwi pearl ? or some of the reef balls to see if they encouraged the marine ecosystems?

More likely you have a personal interest with local residents along the foreshore.

Regards
Honda.[/QUOT


You are not really worth replying too. Try reading about intertidal habitat.
FYI: Intertidal is between high and low water. What has this to do with the Tiwi Pearl and artificial reefs.
If or when you find out anything at all get back to me.
The closest I would get to being a "Greenie" is feeding pilchards to fish at Mud Island.
Try this :-)
http://www.vliz.be/wiki/Seagrass_meadows
Thanks

Guess you cant answer a question either..

Looking after you own interests above the betterment of the area..

As for the intertidal garbage.. its just that propaganda for people who think that their point of view is the only one..

sea shephard comes to mind.


Regards
Honda..

[Bobpen]

[QUOTE=Bobpen;1538314]

Guess you cant answer a question either..

Looking after you own interests above the betterment of the area..

As for the intertidal garbage.. its just that propaganda for people who think that their point of view is the only one..

sea shephard comes to mind.


Regards
Honda..
Sorry I didn't think that was a serious question: No I don't work for anyone or any agency .
By the way who do you work for? Probably none of my business is it? I would guess Used Car Sales man.
Plus I don't belong to a political party or a union.
I live off my wits.

Actually I don't approve of Sea Shepard tactics as I have worked on trawlers and it is the fishing crew on the whalers that they are harassing. People who are paid to do a job.

By the way:
Do you know anything at all about food chains? Do you know how some big fish start as little fish that eat even smaller things in the intertidal. Have you heard of prawns, you know you can use them as BAIT because fish eat them. They start somewhere too. Actually juvenile Tiger prawns are only found in seagrasses. Gee there are Crabs there too! The list seems endless and all interconnected . Like a web. Hey we could call it a "Food web"

When people disagree with you you are probably wrong.. :-)

I don't live on the water front and I have no idea if a dodgy mud filled marina will effect my property value about 2 km away.
I expect the sewer out fall at Eprapah a few kilometres south should bring in the big money investors though. Nutrient enriched mud.

CSIRO laid intake pipes 1.5 km offshore (yellow buoy) to get clean seawater. Just sayin------------

[Jeremy]

Just FYI Bobpen.....

I have been following this thread since you first posted. Your first post in this thread comes across to me as highly self righteous. You seem to think that if we don't come along and support this particular event, we don't care about the environment or the future of fishing.

Many of us on here, myself included, have been fighting for fishers rights for years. Many of us have participated in (some even organised) rallies against the green zones - there were three such rallies I can remember, either on water or cars. Some have joined political parties to raise the stakes of fishing issues in the political arena. Many of use have signed petitions, written to MPs, written letters to newspapers and magazines. The list goes on.

You obviously think that your particular cause is worth, and good on you. But I suggest in future you need to tone back to get people onside, because you got me offside immediately with your first post. In an online forum such as ausfish, what you write and how you write it counts for a lot.

[Bobpen]

Just FYI Bobpen.....

I have been following this thread since you first posted. Your first post in this thread comes across to me as highly self righteous. You seem to think that if we don't come along and support this particular event, we don't care about the environment or the future of fishing.

Many of us on here, myself included, have been fighting for fishers rights for years. Many of us have participated in (some even organised) rallies against the green zones - there were three such rallies I can remember, either on water or cars. Some have joined political parties to raise the stakes of fishing issues in the political arena. Many of use have signed petitions, written to MPs, written letters to newspapers and magazines. The list goes on.

You obviously think that your particular cause is worth, and good on you. But I suggest in future you need to tone back to get people onside, because you got me offside immediately with your first post. In an online forum such as ausfish, what you write and how you write it counts for a lot.


I an sorry that you don't like the tone of my post.

My point was: If you simply right off this as a protest by whinging hippy NIMBY dog walkers the focus will not be on the damage to the Moreton bay Marine Park which is actually a much more important issue. I was hoping to re-focus attention on the new 800 berth marina in a Marine Park. The 15 storey buildings are not an environmental disaster.

The whinging hippy NIMBY dog walkers don't post on this web site for themselves.

If you were not aware of this proposal to dredge an 800 berth marina in a marine park before I posted this then I have already achieved my goal.

As an aside: All of the spoil from the previous maintenance dredging at Toondah a few years ago was dumped in the bay as it was the cheapest option.

Toondah Dredging February 2008 20,000 cubic metres of spoil to be dumped at Mud Island

[honda900]

[QUOTE=Bobpen;1538896 mud filled marina will effect my property value about 2 km away.[/QUOTE]

^^ Wasn't too hard to see your whole argument is self centered..

Car Salesman.. LOL...


Regards
Honda.

[Bobpen]

^^ Wasn't too hard to see your whole argument is self centered..

Car Salesman.. LOL...


Regards
Honda.\\

Sorry that you miss-read it: I don't live on the water front and I have no idea if a dodgy mud filled marina will effect my property value about 2 km away. Does that make it clearer? I would really like my property value to go down as I am not moving and I will pay less rates. :-)

Now be serious for a while: This wonderful development will probably double my property value and I can stroll down and have a Latte each morning with my MMA personal trainer.
Shame about the fish: Collateral damage.

Is your Honda 90 one of those Postie bikes? Why not just get on it---------------
Sorry I misread that so you have 900 cc Japanese Harley. Please don't tell your club about me. :'(

[honda900]

Being Serious for a while, why do you assume that this development would lessen the value of your property, Maybe you should consider the relatively high possibility that the development may actually increase the value of your property significantly.

As for the rest.. Page one Post one, you lied.

regards
Honda.

[Bobpen]

Being Serious for a while, why do you assume that this development would lessen the value of your property, Maybe you should consider the relatively high possibility that the development may actually increase the value of your property significantly.

As for the rest.. Page one Post one, you lied.

regards
Honda.

Lied about what? I can't see your point. Sorry.

Plus I really and truly honestly don't have any intention of moving so I really don't want my property value to go up.

The whole idea this is about ferry terminals is a huge lie.
Where do you arrive if you use a car ferry to Stradbroke? Not Southbank. (It is Dunwich)
What are the car ferry terminals like to and from Moreton. (Last month when I took the Landcruiser over the landing was onto the beach but they probably have built something since)
Car ferry to Fraser ditto.
Cable ferry to North-shore Noosa.

Ferry terminal----What ferry terminal

Perhaps they are thinking of Cruise liners?
The PDA was a little light on detail and the consultants may have never been to Toondah.
That would explain a lot.

[Louis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WH_MBwQhGgA

[Bobpen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WH_MBwQhGgA



I agree. Greens are a waste of space

But do you have anything to say of any value?
Something say: Vaguely related to protecting Moreton Bay from property developers?

Have you noticed that since the Raby Bay canals were developed we catch more Grinners? Makes you think--------------------------

I despise all stupid political parties equally.

Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Fishing_and_Lifestyle_Party)
Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Party_(Australia))
Help End Marijuana Prohibition (HEMP) Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEMP_Party)
Katter's Australian Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katter%27s_Australian_Party)
No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Carbon_Tax_Climate_Sceptics)
One Nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Nation_(Australia))
Outdoor Recreation Party (Stop the Greens) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outdoor_Recreation_Party)
Shooters and Fishers Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooters_and_Fishers_Party)
Smokers' Rights Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Smokers%27_Rights_Party&action=edit&redlink=1)
Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Motoring_Enthusiast_Party)
Australian Sports Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Sports_Party)


Australian Sex Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Sex_Party)
Pirate Party Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_Australia)
Australian Labor Party (ALP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party)





Liberal National Party of Queensland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_National_Party_of_Queensland)

[gr hilly]

There has been lots of changes to the Beach front in the last 45 yrs that i remember infact the whole of the bay side is better now than ever and a lot more fish and crabs are about now if you think im wrong its must be in the last 45 yrs i have found their hiding place so you keep looking and let the new developments alone Cleveland is a nicer place now than it was 45yrs ago its the poeple that have changed.

cheers,Hilly

[Horse]

I don't like to see any further degradation of our marine environment but I can see a lot of positives with a decent marina in that area. Manly is congested and Horizon shores too far out of the way. I have no problem with high rise on the waterfront in that area. It would be a nice place for a boardwalk with cafes and restaurants.

[TimiBoy]

The guy's a jerk. No point arguing with a Fanatic. Thankfully I don't need a Marina berth, I have one at my back door.

There is a highish rise around the corner on Masthead Dr proposed too. I will be able to see it from my pontoon. I have made it clear that I am in favour of that, too.

Funny, the "Notards" didn't want Raby Bay either, back in the 90's. Bad for Fish, bad for the Environment. Apparently. Clueless fools, you should see the Bream and the Coral at my place. Big, fat, obscenely healthy. An amazing place full of Bream, Jacks, mullet and many other species. If you don't want development, bugger off to Byron. Very few barbers there, should suit you.

[manta man]

We don't Real Estate do we?

[Peter4]

No idea how Timiboy doesn't get banned with his 'anger management' issues and personal attacks...:-?

I don't like the tone of Bobpen's posts either but I'm not about to call hims names because I don't agree with the way he posts...

[Bobpen]

The guy's a jerk. No point arguing with a Fanatic. Thankfully I don't need a Marina berth, I have one at my back door.

There is a highish rise around the corner on Masthead Dr proposed too. I will be able to see it from my pontoon. I have made it clear that I am in favour of that, too.

Funny, the "Notards" didn't want Raby Bay either, back in the 90's. Bad for Fish, bad for the Environment. Apparently. Clueless fools, you should see the Bream and the Coral at my place. Big, fat, obscenely healthy. An amazing place full of Bream, Jacks, mullet and many other species. If you don't want development, bugger off to Byron. Very few barbers there, should suit you.

We have probably met at Raby Bay Harbour then.
Good day neighbour.

I often walk down for a beer. No room to park a car. Little bit of an oversight there.

Don't you find the blocks in Raby Bay are a bit small?

I prefer to have a bit of a yard.

I see the developers are back to fix up your neighbour's rock-walls.
That's a lot of machinery in Sommersea Drive.
Must be costing a mint.
Hope the Council didn't get scammed on that too----------------
They are not very bright. (The Council that is: Not the developers who are long gone.)

[Bobpen]

Hi Guys:
It has been fun but I won't be checking the News Forum anytime soon. (My daughter said my posts may hurt someone's feelings)

Plus: Like they say "No news is good news" or "If you don't know about it, it can't hurt you".

Timid-Boy and Honda-90 can keep you updated on Real-Estate Prices.

The Chat Board Rules should be changed The site should ban the use of inflammatory words like "park" , "environment" and "green" as these seem to incense some readers and they may choke on their dentures.

Chat Board Rules You agree, through your use of this Chat Board, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, bullying, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law.

[mod5]

No idea how Timiboy doesn't get banned with his 'anger management' issues and personal attacks...:-?

I don't like the tone of Bobpen's posts either but I'm not about to call hims names because I don't agree with the way he posts...

It has been said by all of us Moderators at some time. We cannot expect to read all posts on the forum as much as we try. If you see posts that breach the rules of the forum then please report them and it will be dealt with.

People will be warned and ultimately repeat offenders will be removed from the forum.

Thanks