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View Full Version : Trailer Setup - Difficulty To Launch



VictorOscar
20-01-2014, 07:56 PM
Hi,

I have a 5m Sea Jay CC and I am finding lately that it is quite difficult to launch. I need two people to lift the bow up and down over and over to get the boat to start moving backwards and even when the boat is half off the trailer I am finding that it still requires to be pushed, it doesn't seem to want to slide off. This is a real pain in the a$$ as it is preventing me from going out myself and it should be much easier than this, everyone else at the ramp does not appear to have this level of difficulty.

I have previously adjusted the skids to ensure that they aren't holding too much weight and I have sprayed them with silicone spray. I am actually able to move the skids sideways inside their bracket so I know that they aren't holding too much weight. However, this didn't fix the problem. Recently, I have been reversing the trailer back as far as I can without getting my car wet to submerge the stern of the boat and this works great if the ramp is steep (Cabbage Tree, West End, Manly Boat Harbour next to the Coast Guard) but on ramps where it isn't as steep (Manly Boat Harbour next to RQYS), even if I reverse the trailer in as far as possible, the boat doesn't get submerged and I need two people again to rock the bow. Therefore, submerging the trailer is not a long term solution because it is not successful every time.

Anyhow, I got underneath the trailer tonight and found that:

the very front roller doesn't touch the hole, it is a few mm off, however I don't think this is mean't to be weight bearing. It looks as if it is there to stop the bow bouncing up and down when towing,
the next roller down I was able to turn by hand,
the next two rollers I was unable to turn and,
the last one isn't touching the hull at all.

Here is a link to a photo of the trailer: http://www.mayfairmarine.com.au/_lib/RE1613MO.jpg

This got my thinking that the keel rollers will need to be adjusted and moved slightly lower however, I am unsure of what effect this will have with the skids. If I lower the rollers to reduce the weight on them, will this not increase the weight on the skids and basically cause the same difficultly in launching the boat?

Has anyone else experienced this problem and is able to help?

I was interested to hear some feedback on the following:

Changing the single keel rollers to a double keel roller bracket. More rollers = more distribution of weight = less weight on each roller?
Is there any sort of lubrication for the roller spindles so the roller is able to spin more freely under load?
Having the boat sit more bow up on the trailer (see photo below)?:
Possibly moving all rollers and skids down to lower the boat on the trailer. There is presently around 6cm of space between the top of the mudguard and the chimes of the boat. Is this too much or does it sound about right (see photo below)?


Thank you in advance :)

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Darren Mc
20-01-2014, 08:33 PM
I think the skids are there mainly to give support to stop the boat from rocking sideways. I reckon adjust the skids so they are just touching the hull.
You will definately need to get those keel rollers rolling freely. Marine grease will do it. But if you want to fix them for good, buy some 316 stainless steel rod in the correct diameter and make your own roller rods. Use stainless steel split pin's as well.

I wouldn't lower the boat on the trailer, the boat in the picture looks fine.

gruntahunta
20-01-2014, 08:41 PM
I am thinking all the weight is on those 2 middle rollers......raise them all up....whole boat looks too level to me.....get it sitting evenly on all rollers with front ones higher than stern ones....then adjust the skids to that level to balance....that's how my 4.75 is and it rolls off by itself...I can literally wind it off if I want.

Si
20-01-2014, 08:49 PM
hey mate. no expert on trailer set ups. replace or repair the dodgy roller. I have the same trailer. your boat is slightly bigger than mine. I will try to attach some photos of mine for comparative purposes although i'm having trouble attaching. mine slides off with no dramas at all. I even have to slow it down. hope you work it out. nice boat too:P

Darren Mc
20-01-2014, 08:51 PM
Has your back set of rollers dropped at all?
If they have maybe raise them back up to support the hull and give it something to roll on so it's not sliding on the back corner of the skids?
Just a thought???

MrNanks
20-01-2014, 09:19 PM
Has your back set of rollers dropped at all?
If they have maybe raise them back up to support the hull and give it something to roll on so it's not sliding on the back corner of the skids?
Just a thought???Thanks Darren, I now realise that is most likely why my boat doesn't get in the water that well.
Simple fix I reckon. Cheers

VictorOscar
20-01-2014, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the responses.

Good idea for the stainless steel spindles Darren MC, I will have to source some. For when I change to double keel rollers, I like the idea of having as many rollers as possible.

If you could post some photos Si that would be great. Hopefully I can get mine to be as easy to launch as yours.

I will have a look at adjusting the height of the current keel rollers this weekend, I will let you know how I go.

GBC
21-01-2014, 05:37 AM
The short 'chocks' look to be 90 degrees to the direction of travel? Shouldn't they align with the keel?

MTAQ/BTAQ
21-01-2014, 08:44 AM
Put some furniture polish on the skids just in case the bow catches as it comes off

Apollo
21-01-2014, 08:44 AM
The short 'chocks' look to be 90 degrees to the direction of travel? Shouldn't they align with the keel?

Think they are there to mainly guide the boat onto the keel rollers when retrieving/launching. I think both the guides and the back keel roller are too low and perhaps the couple in the middle are too high. The forward roller should just be carrying weight when boat is pulled forward to allow it to tension the bow down when travelling. When the boat is off the trailer, check that all keel rollers run freely. The side skids should just be kissing the hull.

Sami12
21-01-2014, 01:07 PM
Here is a great article I found earlier today http://www.boatrollers.com.au/index.html?ext290.html&1
Also I think those small skids near the rear are sideways as mentioned

TSC
21-01-2014, 02:05 PM
I had a 535 Magnum which appears to have a similar keel line as the haven. The keel itself is profiled up at the back resulting in the lack of contact on the rear rollers (when the rollers are set up level). I didn't like the idea of the keel not being supported directly under the motor so raised this up and swapped the rear rollers over to the aluminium body roller (yalio) to prevent the keel cutting into the poly roller as it run up the profiled keel when launching.

As mentioned above it looks like it would drag a little of the side skids which should only just touch the hull to balance it on the trailer. I would suggest a bit too much weight is taken by the outer side skids in its current setup.

While the boat doesn't look to bad on the trailer I would consider lowering the boat a little at the back to assist with slope on the flatter ramps you use.

Si
21-01-2014, 02:14 PM
The small skids are orientated correctly. That is perpindiculer to the beam of the boat. Strange as it may seem, that is how they are deisgned and as Apollo said they assist in aliging the boat when retrieving. They would also carry some of the load of the boat in a small way. See picture of a similiar trailer.

Tim - I have also finally managed to attach those pictures of my boat on same trailer. Not the best pictures in terms of height or detail but that's all i had.

cheers .

Moonlighter
21-01-2014, 02:22 PM
I agree with the other posts.

Yes, the ally yalio rollers at the back are a great idea, plus yes, definitely double all the keel rollers if you can and add stainless steel spindles. More rollers to spread the load is much better.

The principle with ally boats is for the keel to carry to vast majority of the weight, and the skids just to keep it level and stop it rocking.

Drop the boat off at the ramp, and now set the trailer up with a string line so thatthe centre rollers slope at least 100mm from the front of the trailer to the rear. Drop the side skids down a bit, and then carefully put the boat back on. Anti-sieze or liberal coating of lanolin grease on all the bolts while you are there.

Then, with the trailer on level ground, lift the side skids up so that they just touch the boat enough to keep it level and stop it rocking side to side.

it will roll off and on like a new one if you set it up like that. Done lots of trailers like that and rarely have problems after getting it right.

VictorOscar
26-01-2014, 12:10 AM
Thanks for all the responses, I have an update:

I took the boat off the trailer and replaced the single keel rollers with doubles, sprayed the skids with silicone spray and adjusted the side skids back up. Now all the rollers can now be turned by hand.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to test it at the ramp again, a heap of skis turned up and being the nice person I am, didn't want to get in their way. Not to worry because I am planning on testing it at the flattest ramp I know (Manly) on Monday. I figure if I can launch it there I can launch it anywhere!

Although when I got home I also though I would see if I could push my boat off on level ground so I backed off the winch cable about 10 cm and, with a bit of force, could push my boat backwards and forwards. I figure this is promising?

However I do have another question. After I had made all the adjustments I tightened the winch cable and the strap over the stern, grabbed one side of the boat and lifted it up and down so make sure nothing was loose etc. When I did this, I noticed that my boat would lift slightly (<10mm roughly) off the front of the skids. I have never noticed this before and am unsure as to whether this is trailer flexing or if the skids need to go up a bit tighter. I used a car jack to put them back up nice and snug but I am still able to move them sideways inside their bracket so they aren't carrying any/much weight.

Does anyone have this happen with their trailer?

gofishin
26-01-2014, 07:56 AM
TB,you want a bit of movement!

As per above, the skids should just kiss the hull. But, they are not in the ideal place! Move them outwards, so that they are outside the ‘pressing’/planning strake. This will help launch, and, will also assist with the retrieve.

As it is, as the boat slides backwards off the trailer the pressing will most likely be imparting additional load on the skid. By moving it outside of this pressing, the skid will always have a flatter section of the hull to work with. Also, on retrieve this revised location will greatly assist in keeping the boat centred, as the ridge of the pressing acts as a guide. With the boat/keel centred overthe KR’s, align the skids outside of the pressing so that there is slightly more gap (between skid and pressing ridge) at the rear of the skid than at the front. If the boat starts to come on/up a little off centre, this helps to gently squeeze the boat back to the centre of the trailer as it comes up the trailer.

Yes, the keel guides (small transverse/sideways skids beside the KR’s) should be ‘sideways’,and they should not touch the hull, ever! But they need some minor adjustment. Currently they would allow your keel to get caught just outside the rollers/bogey bracket – as there is a lip. Move them inwards and possibly upwards so the chamfered tip rests on top of the roller bogey bracket. The hollow end allows them to ‘swallow’ the bogey pin, so you will have more adjustment. When set up correctly they both should present a vee so that, if the keel foot does contact them first, they force the keel (by gravity) to slide down and drop onto the KR’s – missing the edge of the KR’s and the bogey bracket. Also raise them so that you get max vee, but don’t let them touch the hull at the inside pressing.

I always like to have the rear most KR touching the keel, however, there are some limitations. In the picture I can just make out what looks to be a cutaway keel – where the “I beam” keel extrusion is cut back close to the transom. Is this the case? If so, and you raise the rear KR(to support some weight), this can act as a brake when the keel-cut contacts the back KR on launch (even with alloy rollers). If it has been done a bit roughly, smooth (sand/grind/file etc) the keel-cut so it is a nice smooth transition. This should allow you to get that rear KR up under the keel taking some weight.

After the above skid mods, test at the transom, not the bow. Squat down (so you can see the hull/skid contact), and try & rock the boat. With a little bit of force you should be able to rock the hull just up off the skid.
Cheers
Brendon

Chimo
26-01-2014, 08:31 AM
TB

Re yours
"I was interested to hear some feedback on the following:


Changing the single keel rollers to a double keel roller bracket. More rollers = more distribution of weight = less weight on each roller?
Is there any sort of lubrication for the roller spindles so the roller is able to spin more freely under load?
Having the boat sit more bow up on the trailer (see photo below)?:
Possibly moving all rollers and skids down to lower the boat on the trailer. There is presently around 6cm of space between the top of the mudguard and the chimes of the boat. Is this too much or does it sound about right (see photo below)?"

1 More rollers does equal better weigh distribution and gets the boat on and off easier.
2 Water proof grease or silicon or crc or whatever on the spindles works for a while but needs more regularly but worthwhile. Not on the skids as it attracts dirt and damages the hull as it rubs.
3 Bow up, bow down whatever on a boat ramp the boat should fall off if you don't hold it in place. Bow down is handy to get underfloor fuel tanks level for easier filling at the servo.
4 Lowering the boat would be beneficial to aid keeping the bearings dry.

I was told by the builder / owner of the co that I got my 5.6 m tinny from to set my trailer up so that all the rollers had equal boat weight on them when the trailer was on the ball and boat was set up ie tied down for travel.

IMHO all the skids should be swapped for doubles or quad wobble rollers and you need to set the boat up on the car with the tie downs in place and then get under the boat trailer and jack up or down each roller set to get equal weight on each.

The suggestion that rollers will damage a Al boat is correct but only if you try and support a boat on three or four with skids just to hold it steady. I had 29 rollers under my tinny and not a dent in the hull after 9 years and thousands of country kms.

If you don't want to fit rollers just lift every thing to get equal loading and just drown the trailer to launch and to retrieve and be done with it. Maybe when you get your next trailer you can consider the alternative.

Good luck with it.

Cheers
Chimo

gofishin
26-01-2014, 10:45 AM
Yes, also meant to say in my post to lower boat on trailer too. Several reasons, one being as Chimo says that it makes your boat closer to the ground and hence water. - so it helps not get your bearings wet, but also because it lowers the CoG and reduces windage.

It is surprising how much a 30 - 40 mm drop in height will do to the latter two mentioned.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VictorOscar
27-01-2014, 07:07 PM
gofishin:

Thanks for the ideas. Today before testing I moved those keel guides as per your post, I couldn't move the skids out any further though due to the wood yokes not being long enough and that trailer not really offering too much more room to move them. My keel is a cutaway design and is a bit rough where it joins but I am not confident enough of my ability to grind away at it to smooth it out so I thought it was best to be safe then sorry.

Chimno:

I changed the rollers to doubles to distribute the weight over more points and I lubricated the axels with WD-40. I haven't tried adjusting the bow higher, I do like the idea of having the boat level when being trailered to keep the fuel tanks level. I was tempted to change the skids for rollers if my test launch today didn't work but I have to say I was pretty stoked with the results.

Details of the launch:

Before I took the boat down I moved the keel guides and also the winch post. The trailer would seem to flex noticeably when I tightened the winch cable so I raised the height of it and this appears to have reduced the flex, it isn't too noticeable now.

I towed the boat to the flattest ramp I know (Manly) and being 25+ knots winds in Moreton Bay, there was no one else at the boat ramp.

I backed the trailer down to the axels, took the safety chain off and went to loosen the winch cable to remove it's hook from the boat but the boat kept just kept on sliding off the trailer! I ended up having to slowly unwind the winch until the boat was completely off the trailer before I could even had a chance to unhook it, before this point the boat wouldn't stop to give me the opportunity to get some slack in the cable to unhook it. Never had to push the boat once, it was I had rollers :P

There was also a difference in loading the boat back on the trailer too. There is a lot less drag and I could just use one hand to winch it the entire way.

All in all, I am stoked at how the trailer is now and once again I would like to say a big thank you to everyone that has contributed suggestions and ideas for my trailer troubles and if anyone has any other questions regarding my setup ask away.

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Dignity
28-01-2014, 07:04 AM
Mate glad you got it working for you, watched the thread with interest and you were getting good advice so let it alone, just remember to leave the security chain connected as you back down or leave the ramp as it might end up back in the water.

trueblue
28-01-2014, 07:45 AM
every year or so pull the roller pins out and give them a dose of marine grease then refit

Malcolm W
28-01-2014, 08:53 AM
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Good to see you got it sorted. If your having trouble with the boat taking off with the winch rope attached, try one of these quick release clips. Available from chandlery shops, they range from $20 up, depending on size. Remove the winch rope then pull the pin when your ready to launch. I use a rope hooked on it for a quick beach launch. Also did the same as you placing the skids over the keel rollers for the beach retrieve. The boat can come on at almost any angle and straighten up while winching.

VictorOscar
28-01-2014, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the reminder Dignity, I surely don't want to be one of those people you see on Facebook whose boat is on the ground halfway up the ramp

I will have to make a habbit of doing it every 6 months or so thanks trueblue.

I like that idea Malcolm, I'd a Whitwoths will be getting a visit on Saturday :)

bigjimg
28-01-2014, 06:15 PM
every year or so pull the roller pins out and give them a dose of marine grease then refit

Or do what I've just done and replace with 316 stainless. Butter spindles with a coating of RESQSTEEL and good as for a looooong time. Jim


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trueblue
29-01-2014, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=bigjimg;1533678]Or do what I've just done and replace with 316 stainless. Butter spindles with a coating of RESQSTEEL and good as for a looooong time. Jim
[QUOTE]

Thats a great idea to about the stainless (I did that too), but without the regular grease the same problems will still occur - it still seems to dry out

bigjimg
30-01-2014, 09:49 PM
RESQSTEEL
With this product in lieu of the grease it takes much longer to leach out or dry. The whole idea of the stainless spindle is to stop the rust inside the roller and becoming extremely difficult to extract the spindle.This rust causing the roller to become ineffective and not spin freely on the bracket.I had to knock the spindles out with a heavy club hammer and with only mild rust took some effort. I had my spindles machined at work so that they were a fraction smaller in diameter than off the shelf ones.
I know all this stuff is just stating the obvious, but when it comes time to pull the spindles out again I will drill a 1/8th hole into the keel roller and squirt protector spray lube into the spindle for lubrication, much easier then to maintain. Jim