Motor Height Setup

[dadstinny]

Okay, got a new boat which is a 3.7 metre fibreglass boat.

I have a 15hp suzuki, the new lightweight model and the motor has only had its first tank through it as of a few days ago.

Problem i am having is from a stand still you open the accelerator and she takes of slowly and feels like she is revving but not much is happening in terms of it moving.

If I back of a little on the gas and then re accelerate in some cases it takes off and planes ok some cases it just revs out until I come to a complete stop and let it rest before trying again.

Once she is up on the plan she is fine but its just getting to that point that is beginning to become frustrating.

I am of the belief something is not quite right in terms of the a) the height of the motor b) the overall depth of the boat in the water.

The motor seems to be sitting where suzuki recommends according to the manual of the motor.

The boat has a splash well, rear esky and live well and with two people sitting in the back with only a very small amount of fuel in the tank and the esky and live well completely empty the splash well drain holes are about 1mm above the water line and in some cases take on a bit of water when at a stand still.

I am wondering, what is the norm in terms of how far out of the water for a smaller boat should the splash well drain holes be?

I am thinking the bum of the boat is to low in the water but i could be wrong.

I have tried adjusting the motor position with the motor further away from the transom and closer to the transom and it seem to be a little better with the motor closer to the transom rather than further away but far from perfect yet.

Manufacturer thus far is really helping alot but just want a bit insight from others as I am not to up on these things.

[Axl]

Its cavitating the prop is not gripping the water, it sounds like your motor might be to high. Some pics may help but id say its to high or the prop may need to be cupped and or replaced.

I lifted my motor two holes last year and it does the same albeit not as bad as what you have explained, i have been lazy but I will be getting my prop cupped when I get around to it.

[gruntahunta]

Let the games begin...c'mon Fed...ur the man for this one..and I mean that sincerely.

[dadstinny]

Here is a couple of pics in and out of the water.

9946899467

[Horse]

It sounds like ventilation but with that setup its hard to imagine. It could be the prop hub rubber slipping.

[robfish 1]

Hi dadstinny...after 30 years of boats and many, many props, it really does sound to me like your prop's letting go. I'd definitely get it checked out, as the indication of it revving out without acceleration, and speeding up after a slow down - sounds too much like prop slip (rubber bush), for it not to be that. Overall, it sounds like you're also carrying way too much weight in the stern too - with the splash well holes only a mm above waterline, I'd be moving some of the weight forwards. In your 1st pic, she does seem to riding a little too low, too.

[Apollo]

Have you hit anything hard and bent/damaged the prop?

[dadstinny]

Hi dadstinny...after 30 years of boats and many, many props, it really does sound to me like your prop's letting go. I'd definitely get it checked out, as the indication of it revving out without acceleration, and speeding up after a slow down - sounds too much like prop slip (rubber bush), for it not to be that. Overall, it sounds like you're also carrying way too much weight in the stern too - with the splash well holes only a mm above waterline, I'd be moving some of the weight forwards. In your 1st pic, she does seem to riding a little too low, too.

Thanks and this is what worries me the only weight on the back in these photos is me and my son.

If I was to start adding food + ice + live well then it may not end well.

So aside from loosing weight not sure what else to do.


Have you hit anything hard and bent/damaged the prop?

No not not hit anything.

Admitibaly lost some paint of the prop due to a few cunning sandy bottoms but the boat + motor is brand new and only a week old and it has done this since its first run a week ago.

[Apollo]

Does it do the same thing if you feed on the throttle slowly?

[dadstinny]

Does it do the same thing if you feed on the throttle slowly?

Interesting question....

It seems if I feed the throttle slowly it is more forgiving yes.

But sometimes you will get it up and nearly ready to plane and it will do the same thing.

[Apollo]

I am wondering if the prop is too small and so breaking free when you boot it? Can you borrow a slightly bigger prop to try? From the photo, the motor looks too low rather than too high.

[Spaniard_King]

Take it back to the dealer and get them to water test and sort it out, you may have a gearbox issue or prop hub issue.

[dadstinny]

I am wondering if the prop is too small and so breaking free when you boot it? Can you borrow a slightly bigger prop to try? From the photo, the motor looks too low rather than too high.

Interesting I am travelling at the moment the manufacturer wants these photos and for me to go back there for them to run it.

But its a 6 hour return trip, its not looking like I have a choice really if I want it fixed properly.

I am taking her out in the morning for a fish and a bit more of a test but i don't think much more will change IMO.

My biggest concern aside from the motor behaviour is also the depth of the boat I am just not sure about how close the splash well drains should be and if its common practice to have them so low.

[Gon Fishun]

Take it back to the dealer and get them to water test and sort it out, you may have a gearbox issue or prop hub issue.

And spread some weight to the front. It will tow better.

[dadstinny]

Take it back to the dealer and get them to water test and sort it out, you may have a gearbox issue or prop hub issue.


Thanks mate looking like the only option not looking forward to the drive lol.....

[Darren Mc]

I reckon do as Garry say's , take it back to the dealer.
Somethings not right there. Being brand new, it's not your problem.
The dealer needs to sort it out.

[Gon Fishun]

Okay, got a new boat which is a 3.7 metre fibreglass boat.

I have a 15hp suzuki, the new lightweight model and the motor has only had its first tank through it as of a few days ago.

Problem i am having is from a stand still you open the accelerator and she takes of slowly and feels like she is revving but not much is happening in terms of it moving.

If I back of a little on the gas and then re accelerate in some cases it takes off and planes ok some cases it just revs out until I come to a complete stop and let it rest before trying again.

Once she is up on the plan she is fine but its just getting to that point that is beginning to become frustrating.

I am of the belief something is not quite right in terms of the a) the height of the motor b) the overall depth of the boat in the water.

The motor seems to be sitting where suzuki recommends according to the manual of the motor.

The boat has a splash well, rear esky and live well and with two people sitting in the back with only a very small amount of fuel in the tank and the esky and live well completely empty the splash well drain holes are about 1mm above the water line and in some cases take on a bit of water when at a stand still.

I am wondering, what is the norm in terms of how far out of the water for a smaller boat should the splash well drain holes be?

I am thinking the bum of the boat is to low in the water but i could be wrong.

I have tried adjusting the motor position with the motor further away from the transom and closer to the transom and it seem to be a little better with the motor closer to the transom rather than further away but far from perfect yet.

Manufacturer thus far is really helping alot but just want a bit insight from others as I am not to up on these things.

Have you tried going back to square 1. Empty boat, 1 person, you, and the fuel tank. Set your tilt where suggested and go from there.

[robfish 1]

My money's still on a faulty prop bush - but I'm also more than a little concerned over the low transom height. I'd be worried about travelling in a following sea - with that lack of freeboard and what appears to be a lack of inherent flotation, you could end up in a dangerous situation. Make sure that all internal weight is evenly distributed around the boat. When the boat's at rest and not underway, does it sit very high in the bow?
If so, you'll need to balance out the load carefully, as a smaller hull is not as forgiving as a larger one with more HP on the back.

[robfish 1]

1. Honestly what are the expectations of a 3.7m FG with a 15 on the back, following sea, of course a 3.7 is going to have a low transom, low freeboard and be subject to weight distribution doh

Satnav...we obviously have a boater here who's unaware of the need for the weight distribution, as per his original posting - (my apologies if I'm wrong, dadstinny). He's asked for our help, and we are all only suggesting things which we as experienced boaters, take for granted, but he may not know. I still believe that the revving out is a faulty prop bush, but as for the low transom freeboard and splashwell drains so low, well that needs to be addressed before he becomes a statistic! We all had to start somewhere, so sarcasm won't help in this situation.

[Fish_Two]

Get a long fuel line hose and move the tank to the front,

have you tried adjusting the trim?

Responses like above, wonder why people don't post??

[robfish 1]

Satnav...a following sea is a figure of speech! Nautically, it means any weather that is following your direction of travel - not just bluewater! A big impoundment can have a following sea - I've experienced 2metre waves on Lake Eildon when the weather turns foul - and it can do so within a half hour in the mountains. I regularly fish PPB - and it can turn ugly within minutes - and in far less time than I can up anchor and travel the 5-6 kms back to base, I can be battling 1.5-2m waves and 50 knot winds. It happens. I've had my share of small boats over the years, and I'm concerned for dadstinny's clear lack of knowledge on these issues - and as stated earlier - don't want him and his son to become statistics!
You may well be fortunate enough to own a larger hull - many of us don't and have to make do with what we can afford - and if that's a 3.7m f/glass, well good luck to them. I'm currently setting up a 3.0m punt I just picked up cheap - as I could not afford anything larger or fancier, and I'm going to pick the launch days carefully - but I still bet there'll be days when I cop a following sea - either inshore or in an impoundment!

[fishychrissy]

2. But lets not over do the capabilities of a 3.7FG with a 15 on the back and low freeboard, following sea blah blah blah, this is a boat that really should never be out in any sort of following sea, period, it's not what it's meant for.

Had a yarn with dadstinny a little while ago in a post, and we discussed fishing and boating in the Passage, partially smooth waters, but on occasion can get a little choppy, and depending on wind patterns and tides can produce a following sea in a few of the more open areas like Toorbul to White Patch.

Prop definitely looks like a Passage victim, you should see my skeg, prefer the raw metal look anyway lol, water gets away from ya in a few places!

cheers

[robfish 1]

Thanks moderator...no need for those sarcastic posts when all we are trying to do is help someone out.

[robfish 1]

Dadstinny - if I were you, I'd have a good look at that prop to see if it isn't an old one resprayed. The next dealer that sticks on a 2nd hand prop on a new motor won't be the first. I'm not saying that your dealer is shonky, but it's worth checking out. Sandbar strikes should not damage the prop bush - not unless you've hit some rocks as well, but there does not appear to be any chips in the prop.

[Darren Mc]

Sorry to dadstinny for all the kafuffel. Please don't be put off posting.
We're all interested to hear how you get on.

[Gon Fishun]

99475

What's your thoughts on this.
It doesn't look right to me.
Motor looks as if it is tilted in to the max, it is to low by 50-80mm and the bend in the anti ventilation plate ?????
I will add I have had nothing to do with this type of motor. These are only observations.

[Fed]

Mark the prop hub before you go out today that will tell you if it's slipping.

[odes20]

As raised by other posts there is something up with the prop or such to be able to have it at full revs and completely stopped as noted in your first post. Got to be a slipping prop, surely. On the broader issue, I have owned a tinny with a 15 for a few years I would comment that I would never be sitting two persons at the back seat especially trying to get up on the plane. Im sure this boat as a fiberglass would be heavier as well than most tinnies. If you do your own maths on the combined weight of you and your son it may not be agreeable for this size boat, to have both sitting at the back. Maybe you want the lad sitting beside you to look after him but I don't know if he is four or fourteen. Don't take offence any one, Im just trying to point out that in a boat this size you want optimum weight distribution to get the best on water operations, sea worthiness, and safety.

[dadstinny]

Have you tried going back to square 1. Empty boat, 1 person, you, and the fuel tank. Set your tilt where suggested and go from there.

Yes, this is where we are at right now.

Two up, just me an the wife it seems to be ok and does it occassionally.

4 Up, so the wife and kids is when it is more noticeable.

We have one adult and child at the back and one adult and child at the front with each person on opposite side to counter balance weight.


My money's still on a faulty prop bush - but I'm also more than a little concerned over the low transom height. I'd be worried about travelling in a following sea - with that lack of freeboard and what appears to be a lack of inherent flotation, you could end up in a dangerous situation. Make sure that all internal weight is evenly distributed around the boat. When the boat's at rest and not underway, does it sit very high in the bow?
If so, you'll need to balance out the load carefully, as a smaller hull is not as forgiving as a larger one with more HP on the back.

Thanks, at the moment its not even got anything in it other than fuel and passengers so I am a little stuck in terms of how I counter balance weight lol :)!


Satnav...we obviously have a boater here who's unaware of the need for the weight distribution, as per his original posting - (my apologies if I'm wrong, dadstinny). He's asked for our help, and we are all only suggesting things which we as experienced boaters, take for granted, but he may not know. I still believe that the revving out is a faulty prop bush, but as for the low transom freeboard and splashwell drains so low, well that needs to be addressed before he becomes a statistic! We all had to start somewhere, so sarcasm won't help in this situation.

Hmm missed all this but thanks for your kinds words.

You are correct, for a bit of clarity I have had a few boats now but they have just been nothing of any major investment so just been an oppurtunity to get out amongst.

This boat however has been a substantial investment > 10k and has all the bells and whistles I have never had.

And I am doing just as you said, trying to get an understanding from others with the same items and how they should work so I don't get rick rolled by the manufacturer.

I really don't think they will do this but really just keen to here other thoughts and ideas so I can get a feel for the conversation ahead with the manufacturer from those who have had similiar issues.


Thanks again for the support and kind words.


Get a long fuel line hose and move the tank to the front,

have you tried adjusting the trim?

Responses like above, wonder why people don't post??

Yes I have tried differing trim positions based on advice from the dealer / manufacturer and at the moment its where it does it the least.


Satnav...a following sea is a figure of speech! Nautically, it means any weather that is following your direction of travel - not just bluewater! A big impoundment can have a following sea - I've experienced 2metre waves on Lake Eildon when the weather turns foul - and it can do so within a half hour in the mountains. I regularly fish PPB - and it can turn ugly within minutes - and in far less time than I can up anchor and travel the 5-6 kms back to base, I can be battling 1.5-2m waves and 50 knot winds. It happens. I've had my share of small boats over the years, and I'm concerned for dadstinny's clear lack of knowledge on these issues - and as stated earlier - don't want him and his son to become statistics!
You may well be fortunate enough to own a larger hull - many of us don't and have to make do with what we can afford - and if that's a 3.7m f/glass, well good luck to them. I'm currently setting up a 3.0m punt I just picked up cheap - as I could not afford anything larger or fancier, and I'm going to pick the launch days carefully - but I still bet there'll be days when I cop a following sea - either inshore or in an impoundment!

Thanks for the kind words...

I am not sure what went on but it sounds interesting.

As I mentioned I have never had a splash well on a smaller boat so hence my asking wether its the norm to have them so low.

I suspect the response I will get is due it to being a short shaft transom it is what is but I really just wanted to know others experiences so when I do talk to the manufacturer I can have half an idea.




Had a yarn with dadstinny a little while ago in a post, and we discussed fishing and boating in the Passage, partially smooth waters, but on occasion can get a little choppy, and depending on wind patterns and tides can produce a following sea in a few of the more open areas like Toorbul to White Patch.

Prop definitely looks like a Passage victim, you should see my skeg, prefer the raw metal look anyway lol, water gets away from ya in a few places!

cheers

Lol, I see what you did here :)!

I actually made it around the passage unscathed but scratch the prop up at Tin Can Bay :)!


Thanks moderator...no need for those sarcastic posts when all we are trying to do is help someone out.

Missed it all was I sleeping :)!


Dadstinny - if I were you, I'd have a good look at that prop to see if it isn't an old one resprayed. The next dealer that sticks on a 2nd hand prop on a new motor won't be the first. I'm not saying that your dealer is shonky, but it's worth checking out. Sandbar strikes should not damage the prop bush - not unless you've hit some rocks as well, but there does not appear to be any chips in the prop.

Thanks ill double check it...


Sorry to dadstinny for all the kafuffel. Please don't be put off posting.
We're all interested to hear how you get on.

Thanks not put off at all its helping me building up a few ideas for when I speak with the manufacturer and to understand the scale at which I should be concerned.



99475

What's your thoughts on this.
It doesn't look right to me.
Motor looks as if it is tilted in to the max, it is to low by 50-80mm and the bend in the anti ventilation plate ?????
I will add I have had nothing to do with this type of motor. These are only observations.

Cheers as I mentioned above I had it tilted out a bit more but this seems to be the best spot for it.



Mark the prop hub before you go out today that will tell you if it's slipping.

Cheers fed Ill google this and see if I can do it next time I go out but i just got back in from an early morning run and hand't seen your comment unfortunately :(!


As raised by other posts there is something up with the prop or such to be able to have it at full revs and completely stopped as noted in your first post. Got to be a slipping prop, surely. On the broader issue, I have owned a tinny with a 15 for a few years I would comment that I would never be sitting two persons at the back seat especially trying to get up on the plane. Im sure this boat as a fiberglass would be heavier as well than most tinnies. If you do your own maths on the combined weight of you and your son it may not be agreeable for this size boat, to have both sitting at the back. Maybe you want the lad sitting beside you to look after him but I don't know if he is four or fourteen. Don't take offence any one, Im just trying to point out that in a boat this size you want optimum weight distribution to get the best on water operations, sea worthiness, and safety.

Thanks, just to be clear I am usually 4 up, two adults two kids one of each at each end and alternate sides depending on the weight.

The prop is the dealers first thought + they where thinking the motor was to low but they hadn't seen photos etc of it running.

The boat is desinged as something that can be transportable, don't want to give to much away as I would like to keep the manufacturer out of it for now.

In terms of the kids they are teenagers so not substantial in weight, comparative but not little ones either.

[robfish 1]

odes20 - totally agree. I've had more than my share of smaller hulls, both ally and glass, and you are absolutely right in that weight distribution is critical in these smaller boats. Too much stern weight will prevent planing in the best of boats. I've even had to had my yammie 70 prop cupped to get out of the hole in a 4.8m halfcab, if carrying passengers in the rear.
Even dadstinny's 3.7m glass boat should be able to carry at least 3 adults safely if the load is evenly balanced. But if that prop is slipping as we expect, then more weight = more slippage.

[robfish 1]

Dadstinny - when you consult with the manufacturer, also check how much weight your hull's designed to carry - or at least the manufacturers plate on the hull. With 4 up, you may well be maxing out its capacity. Add up the weight of all 4 people, and factor in a full fuel tank, esky, LBT, fishing gear, anchor and bibs n' bobs - you may be surprised. The inherent stability of a glass hull over a tinny also means more weight - so the carrying capacity is reduced. And I'm still betting on a faulty prop bush!

[dadstinny]

Stand by for some videos from this mornings run :)!

[dadstinny]

Here are some videos from this morning.

Couple of things -

1) Max weight capacity of boat is 450kg's according to builders plate and we where carrying -

a) Passengers = 200kg's
b) Fuel = 10kgs
c) Fishing gear = 10kg's
d) Anchor + Safety gear = 10kg's

Finally the boat itself weighs in at 83kg..

2) All passengers where adequately placed front and back side to side

In this video you can see she is struggling a bit to get up on the plane -

http://youtu.be/lLR7gdqDpvE

In this video at about 16 seconds onwards you can her she is revving out but its only about half to 3/4 throttle and we have not even hit the plane yet -

http://youtu.be/yDd-fA2HTJg

[Gon Fishun]

Here is a couple of pics in and out of the water.

9946899467

The motor is tilted to far forward. It is 50-80mm to low. When tilted back it would be lower.

Are you getting full throttle?????

Is the motor big enough for the job?.

[robfish 1]

Hmmm - couple of things.
1. In the 1st video, she seems to be freely revving and getting you up on plane, and pushing you along at a fair clip without any dramas. Was the problem not occurring today? I take it the slowing down was done by the tiller control, yes? I'd say that the 15 is more than adequate for your hull - my 10ft tinnie planes with a 6hp!
2. In the 2nd video, the leg appears to be very close to vertical, and parallel with the transom wall - if it were a perfect world, (and there was no prop slip), I'd prefer to see the motor taken out a notch or two to assist in planing. The closer your leg is tucked into the transom, the harder to get up on plane, and promotes porpoising -(where the nose tends to bury into a wave, rather than lift up and over).

[robfish 1]

Just had another look at the 2nd video - if that increase in revs was NOT due to throttle control, and was doing it by itself, then its definitely a faulty prop bushing - and the rev increase is due to the prop spinning freely on the shaft, without pushing the boat. Its a bit like a car - it will rev higher and quicker in neutral, as there's no load on the drive train. Get it checked asap - as if it goes completely, you could be in for a long row home!

[dadstinny]

Just had another look at the 2nd video - if that increase in revs was NOT due to throttle control, and was doing it by itself, then its definitely a faulty prop bushing - and the rev increase is due to the prop spinning freely on the shaft, without pushing the boat. Its a bit like a car - it will rev higher and quicker in neutral, as there's no load on the drive train. Get it checked asap - as if it goes completely, you could be in for a long row home!

Okay couple of things just spoke with the manufacturer...

First the splash well holes, manufacturer believes these are fine as is I need a bit more weight in the front.

I am putting an 80 amp hour battery and min kota in so he feels this should balance it out but for the interim keep the additional child up the front and just me on the back.

By his caluclations on the back we have -

1) Passengers 100kg's
2) Motor 33kg's
3) Fuel 15kg's
4) Ice / Bait etc - 10kgs

Total = 158kg's

On the front we have -

1) Two passengers 100kg's
2) Anchor + 3kg's
3) Fishing + Safety Gear = 10kg's

Total = 113kg's

So we are in the acceptable rang for its weight capacity but we need some more weight up the front.

Now for the motor, they are at a bit of a loss you can send emails, pictures and videos but they really need to experience it first hand as they know the product and how it should behave so I am going to have to do the return trip.

They are the manufacturer of the boat, the motor dealer / mechanic is going to be available as well so we can all tie it up for a water test.

I mentioned to the manufacturer of the boat about your thoughts on the prop slipping and they said it sounds plausible and have passed it onto the mechanic for consumption.

Just waiting on the manufacturer to get back to me on timing but they know I am in a rush as holidays are over in two weeks so travelling way to far away.

Have to say thanks to everyone here so far its really helped me understand a little more about this style of boat and given me a better ability to talk to the manufacturer of the boat about it.

Will keep you posted after the water test but I also have to say the manufacturer has been extremely helpful and wants to ensure we are 100% happy with the product so I am glad they are willing to sort it out and not place it in the to hard basket!

#### Update, heading there tomorrow for a water test :)! ####

[robfish 1]

Great! Keep us posted.

[Blackened]

Hmmm - couple of things.
1. In the 1st video, she seems to be freely revving and getting you up on plane, and pushing you along at a fair clip without any dramas. Was the problem not occurring today? I take it the slowing down was done by the tiller control, yes? I'd say that the 15 is more than adequate for your hull - my 10ft tinnie planes with a 6hp!
2. In the 2nd video, the leg appears to be very close to vertical, and parallel with the transom wall - if it were a perfect world, (and there was no prop slip), I'd prefer to see the motor taken out a notch or two to assist in planing. The closer your leg is tucked into the transom, the harder to get up on plane, and promotes porpoising -(where the nose tends to bury into a wave, rather than lift up and over).

G'day

You sure this is correct I don't think so....

Dave

[Camhawk88]

It will promote porpoising if the boat is so inclined but will also push the nose down to assist the boat to get onto the plane, not hinder it. If you want to plane faster you trim the motor in, not out.

I agree but the prop is slipping whether that is the hub or the gear box I dont know but would think the hub.

[odes20]

With this current info you provided Im thinking youre prob a bit under powered in general for that amount of people/weight with a 15 hp and even your boat size is a bit iffy. Unless of course you are only fishing sheltered waters. I'm not saying this is causing the prop or slippage issues, but IMO you would have been better off with a 4 metre coupled with a 25 or 30hp if you want to go fishing / boating as a family of 4 on a regular basis.

[dadstinny]

With this current info you provided Im thinking youre prob a bit under powered in general for that amount of people/weight with a 15 hp and even your boat size is a bit iffy. Unless of course you are only fishing sheltered waters. I'm not saying this is causing the prop or slippage issues, but IMO you would have been better off with a 4 metre coupled with a 25 or 30hp if you want to go fishing / boating as a family of 4 on a regular basis.

Cheers!
Would love a 4 metre but it wont fit on my roof very easy lol :) when the caravan is being towed behind the car :)!

One of the reasons we went with this boat is it offers alot more than a standard tinnie but the boat is a super light weight made of composite glass construction and not your standard run of the mill glass boat hint hint.

Total weight of the boat is 83kgs, which includes everything in it live well, esky, lights, switches, hatches, molded battery floor, front and rear casting decks etc etc .

I used to have a tinnie roughly same size with another suzuki on it all be it the older model motor not the new light model they have just released and it screamed 4 up same passengers and amount of gear that tinnie weighed in at 75 kg's with nothing in it just two bench seats.

Hence my belief we should be right with a 15hp but if need be ill go up in size.

[Darren Mc]

That's cool man. What you got is what suited your needs. With that in mind you just have to know your limitations with it and stick to them.
Let's just try and make your boat the best it can be and iron out these teething problems.
I'm sure you know it's not going to be a rocket with the 15 on it, but it sounds like you just want it to get on the plane normally, and cruise at a steady pace and you'll be happy. Am i right or off the mark?

[dadstinny]

That's cool man. What you got is what suited your needs. With that in mind you just have to know your limitations with it and stick to them.
Let's just try and make your boat the best it can be and iron out these teething problems.
I'm sure you know it's not going to be a rocket with the 15 on it, but it sounds like you just want it to get on the plane normally, and cruise at a steady pace and you'll be happy. Am i right or off the mark?


Spot on mate, having never had a splash well in a small boat like this it was an absolute prize as my last tinnie which was a roof topper would get breached all the time from big cruisers wakes and jet skis so much so I had the bilge pump running overtime 99% of the time which drove everyone batty and we nearly had a few sinking moments.

So I am prepared to accept my fat backside is dropping it in the rear and I need to get my battery and min kotta in the front to even it out as quickly as possible :)!

But as you say, I just want to be able to get it on the plane and run it normally and not work the motor to an inch of its life.

Even my wife can tell when its doing what you can partially see in the videos and can tell its not right as she is used to the old suzuki we had that was literally hand on the throttle bang up on the plane and away.

I understand every boat is going to be different but this boat really should outperform the tinnie in a thousand different ways if the motor is running right.

Will be good to get the guy who built the boat itself out on a water test tomorrow as I am sure he will be able to identify the issue quickly enough and I am hoping for a quick fix so I can focus on fishing as I haven't really caught anything yet even though I have been out in the boat for the last week lol :)!

Family is getting concerned that we could have been dining on lobster and bugs instead of buying a boat and self sustaining...

Thanks again to everyone for the advice thus far its really help alot :)!

[Darren Mc]

Is the boat you have made in caboolture? If so, i know a charter boat operator who has one and he is very happy with his. Very tough boats, light as and they look great to.

[dadstinny]

Is the boat you have made in caboolture? If so, i know a charter boat operator who has one and he is very happy with his. Very tough boats, light as and they look great to.

Bingo :)!

Know the operator you speak of and that boat is a beauty and one of the deciding factors we got ours :)!

[Darren Mc]

Yeah he's a really nice bloke and a great fisherman too.
He's only had positive things to say about his little boat.

[robfish 1]

G'day

You sure this is correct I don't think so....

Dave

Hey Dave...all things in moderation. If he lifts it too far, all she'll do is bury her bum and lift the bow. I feel that if dadstinny's motor was trimmed in too far, it would induce porpoising, or at least keep the bow down - thus creating too much hull drag for him to get out of the hole - particularly id he moves some of the weight forward. Notched back one or two holes should enable him to get the best of both worlds - as he doesn't have PTT to assist when he's up and away. Personally, I've always operated my small boats this way, as I get out of the hole quicker on good water- but can suffer if I'm running into a chop as she can get a bit bumpy - and wet! On my bigger f/glass hull, (5m, 70 yammie), I've noticed that she planes far quicker if the motor leg is a little away from vertical - that is, leaning out from the transom.
So its going to be a bit of trial and error - trimmed out too far and she'll never get out of the hole, and trimmed in too far, she'll launch off every little wave on the plane.

[odes20]

Hey I don't think your new boat is anything but a ripper. In considering this prob as well you need to note that it's not the boats rated capacity that's an issue. It's the motor power and it's setup that can or can't lift the weights nominated out of the water.

So in that prop pitch and size is an issue, as well as setup. Incidentally was the old motor the same power? And it may have had a prop more suited to lift and not top end speed.? For example a you can get props with say 10 -13 degrees of pitch which varies greatly the motors capacity to lift load.

A 15 will need to be at the top of its game to operate that amount of load constantly. And I repeat I'm not criticising what and who should go in your boat, just noting what our 15 yammy could do on a 3.75

waiting to to see what you report from your test with the dealer
Cheers!

[dadstinny]

Okay back from dealer + manufacturer and mechanic after doing water test etc etc all up a 500km round trip been going since 7am lol and just got back to my campsite.

First things first, the motor is the new suzuki 15hp light weight portable and this motor has a rev limiter which is apparently unusual.

This is why when it does what it has been doing and it revs out I have to come to a stop in order for it to correct itself as the rev limiter is kicking in.

This is also confusing the issue as the rev limiter is adding another thing to the mix.

Okay, now the issue with it actually revving out and not planing correctly is that the motor is sitting to high on the transom and its catching
air causing it to rev out as if the prop is not actually spinning.

Then once it revs out the rev limiter kicks in and all hell breaks loose until you idle down and the motor decides its ok to kick of again.

They checked the prop bush etc and its fine and there is no slippage.

The prop on the current motor is exactly the same as the old model so the prop should be perfectly fine.

So, manufacturer is modifying the boat to drop the motor as per the mechanics suggestion, doing another water test and will bring the boat back to me in a day or two themselves which is a 500km' return trip.

[Darren Mc]

Sounds like they are really doing their best to fix it up for you.
Great to see their going to deliver it back to you.
Hope their modification is up to scratch and looks like new again.

[dadstinny]

Sounds like they are really doing their best to fix it up for you.
Great to see their going to deliver it back to you.
Hope their modification is up to scratch and looks like new again.

They certainly where apologetic and unhappy we had to drive back, he even offered me to borrow his personal esky so I could keep my drinks cold :) on the way home as I had them in the esky in the boat lol :)!

They are going to do it properly, hence they wanted to keep it a day or so as they will need to reglass, paint etc to suit and will ensure they water test before bringing it back.

But they aren't mucking around, water test + mechanic was done by 10.30 and the boat was in the shop getting its chop at 11.30.

Thanks everyone for the help thus far can't wait to get it back and glad i understand more about the boat now than before.

[Blackened]

G'day

Good to see it all underway, that's brilliant service and exactly how it should be. Certainly something for many other companies to aspire to.

Dave

[Apollo]

Hope it all goes ok for you. Seems like their customer service is first class.

[Horse]

Once you get it all sorted can you put up a report on the boat. It sounds interesting

[Apollo]

Hope it all goes ok for you. Seems like their customer service is first class.

[astro66]

so you are heading out over the bar...you catch a bit of air or whitewash the rev limiter cuts in...you have to idle down to get it to rev again ????

[robfish 1]

Okay back from dealer + manufacturer and mechanic after doing water test etc etc all up a 500km round trip been going since 7am lol and just got back to my campsite.

First things first, the motor is the new suzuki 15hp light weight portable and this motor has a rev limiter which is apparently unusual.

This is why when it does what it has been doing and it revs out I have to come to a stop in order for it to correct itself as the rev limiter is kicking in.

This is also confusing the issue as the rev limiter is adding another thing to the mix.

Okay, now the issue with it actually revving out and not planing correctly is that the motor is sitting to high on the transom and its catching
air causing it to rev out as if the prop is not actually spinning.

Then once it revs out the rev limiter kicks in and all hell breaks loose until you idle down and the motor decides its ok to kick of again.

They checked the prop bush etc and its fine and there is no slippage.

The prop on the current motor is exactly the same as the old model so the prop should be perfectly fine.

So, manufacturer is modifying the boat to drop the motor as per the mechanics suggestion, doing another water test and will bring the boat back to me in a day or two themselves which is a 500km' return trip.

Well - that outcome certainly stumped a number of us, didn't it? That rev limiter, whilst sound in theory, could prove to be a bit of a bugger in a lumpy seaway, though - automatically kicking in and slowing you down over every wave as you caught some air. Surprisingly, your hull must plane a lot higher in the water than some others, as we'd all suggested that the cav plate was either correctly positioned, or a tad too low! Especially in your first pics.
Ah well - we all live and learn. Good to see the manufacturer standing so firmly behind his goods, though. Don't forget to share the brand later - he deserves the publicity.

[astro66]

I just don't see how in those pics that the motor is to high you can see in the second vid that the water is running 60 or 70 mm over the cav plate so unless the hull throws off some weird aeration ???....and to go chopping the transom like what the ****.......

I think you will find the new 15hp suzukis don't have a rev limiter...they don't until 40hp models....

just saying ....

[dadstinny]

Just got of the phone with the manufacturer boat is repaired and water test has been completed as of 8pm tonight.

Boat will be delivered to my door by 8.30am tomorrow morning as the owner of the company is leaving the factory at 6.30 am to bring it the 250km's to me personally.

Couldn't be happier with the result :)!

In terms of why it was sitting to high and how the pics are a bit deceiving in terms of how it actually was sitting.

One of the contributing factors was the keel guard was sitting lower than the cav plate which is not easy to see completely in the pictures.

[odes20]

??? Stumped me. I can't see that motor running high in the pics, and neither do I hear it cavitating in the vids. Happy to be wrong tho. Most cavitating is sudden rushes of high revs as air gets sucked in , not smooth consistent sound.
I'm sure your dealer will sort it though

[dadstinny]

Well - that outcome certainly stumped a number of us, didn't it? That rev limiter, whilst sound in theory, could prove to be a bit of a bugger in a lumpy seaway, though - automatically kicking in and slowing you down over every wave as you caught some air. Surprisingly, your hull must plane a lot higher in the water than some others, as we'd all suggested that the cav plate was either correctly positioned, or a tad too low! Especially in your first pics. Ah well - we all live and learn. Good to see the manufacturer standing so firmly behind his goods, though. Don't forget to share the brand later - he deserves the publicity.

Hey there, most people where pretty close though :)!

I think the issue also with the cav plate sitting to low in the photos as it was trimmed to far in.

The manufacturer had requested this be done just for testing and the video was taken at this time.It has know has been trimmed up a whole or two so should be sitting normally.

From what I can work out the measurement and decision to modify the transom was made by verifying the motors position in relation to the keel guard at the mechanics set trim position and its alignment to the bottom of the keel guard and hull.As I have said before thought I am not very up on boats so have to trust the manufacturer and have faith they have fixed it.

But in all honesty all my fingers and toes are crossed but I don't think they would bring back 250km's each way without making sure it was not doing the same thing it was this morning.


I just don't see how in those pics that the motor is to high you can see in the second vid that the water is running 60 or 70 mm over the cav plate so unless the hull throws off some weird aeration ???....and to go chopping the transom like what the ****.......I think you will find the new 15hp suzukis don't have a rev limiter...they don't until 40hp models....just saying ....

As I mentioned above from what I understand the pics are a bit deceiving and don't show the keel guard which is part of the issue of the height.

From the moment I relayed the issue by phone there first thought was the motor was to high hence the title of this thread so they obviously know there stuff and have had a few days to consider how to drop it but the are building these things day in day out so know there stuff.

In terms of dropping it they only dropped it a little amount but it was enough to resolve the issue to accommodate the keel guard and boat set up.

Its not just a hack job as again they are the manufacturer of the boat so its been re glassed, re painted, re everything back to factory so I am not in the slightest bit concerned.

[Darren Mc]

Wow that was quick. So the boat get's up and planes normally now?
Do you know if they had a few people on board when they did the last water test?
Could be an idea to see if you can disconnect the rev limiter somehow. Just a thought.
Hopefully you'll be a happy man tomorrow.

[dadstinny]

Wow that was quick. So the boat get's up and planes normally now?
Do you know if they had a few people on board when they did the last water test?
Could be an idea to see if you can disconnect the rev limiter somehow. Just a thought.
Hopefully you'll be a happy man tomorrow.

Yep all back to normal now apparently.

They don't muck around as I mentioned before they had a few guys on it at 11.30am NSW time but they are on QLD time so it was really only 10.30am and the water test was done around 7pm.

And yep Ill be testing it out tomorrow at 8.30am when he arrives to my campsite!

[dadstinny]

Also forgot to mention its not the whole transom they modified its only the motor mount section.

This bit is obviously only the middle section of the transom itself.

[Fed]

So far the whole saga just isn't adding up for me, I hope I'm wrong.

[Horse]

I wonder why your specific vessel had to be modified but all the rest of them are fine. Seems a bit strange to me. I would seriously look into getting that rev limiter removed as it seems to be a limiting factor on how you can use your vessel

[dadstinny]

So far the whole saga just isn't adding up for me, I hope I'm wrong.


Wrong about what fed?

You are usually right lol.....

I am not a boat builder so can only trust in what they have said and done.

[Apollo]

When the owner is there, go for a spin with him in the boat (before he heads off back) to ensure that it is indeed fixed. All the best.

[dadstinny]

I wonder why your specific vessel had to be modified but all the rest of them are fine. Seems a bit strange to me. I would seriously look into getting that rev limiter removed as it seems to be a limiting factor on how you can use your vessel

Couple of things, again this is just the info I have at hand.

First, the motor I have is fairly new only released late 2013.

This is the second boat they have fitted this particular motor to and I am not aware of what the other owner added in terms of extras from standard to his boat.

Its not a standard tinnie, its a custom glass boat so you can add things that affect the depth of the boat like keel guards etc.

I did add alot of things to the boat non standard which I am not sure has brought the issue out.

If it was just a standard tinnie with zilch modifications I would be more concerned.

Some things we have added from standard in the rear are, an esky, a plumbed live well, a reinforced transom to accommodate ski hooks to pull the kids around and a keel guard.

From what I know they went a little higher than standard to accommodate the 4 stroke equivalent and to have it running at the top of its capability for this particular motor as its the standard they usually fit to them so that is why they immediately suspected it could be to high.

I don't understand the issue, but from what I get off its like this -

1) Jam on accelator (Expectation is you will plane)

2) She catches a bit of air and starts free revving

3) Boat obviously doens't plane

4) You need to back off the gas, come to a stop and re do it

Not sure if that makes sense but that is exactly what was happening.

Again I am just going of the info I have from the people resolving it.

Its an expensive, custom built boat so I have to have some faith in there capabilities and knowledge of how the boat was built etc.

It may well be something else hence why I turned to this place for advice and from the information received here I feel a little at ease about the whole thing.

If anyone has any difference of opinion please voice it as I would be happy to here it.

[dadstinny]

Just contacted suzuki direct and they advised no rev limiter in the DT15A like a 4 stroke.

The rev limiter in the 2 stroke just stops it from over revving but it doesn't go into a protection mode like a 4 stroke.

Got the host back and will be giving it a run shortly.

[robfish 1]

Just contacted suzuki direct and they advised no rev limiter in the DT15A like a 4 stroke.

The rev limiter in the 2 stroke just stops it from over revving but it doesn't go into a protection mode like a 4 stroke.

Got the host back and will be giving it a run shortly.

Hmmm...since there's no rev limiter, dadstinny, I'd be inclined to send your two on the water videos directly to Suzuki australia - to see if they can shed some light on the problem.
On the other hand, if she behaves next time you take it out, I wouldn't bother!
I can't see it in any of your pics, but how far down does the keel guard extend beyond the hull? I can't for the life of me see how raising the motor will improve water flow around the cav plate. Anyway - I hope I'm wrong and she performs up to expectations from now on.

[dadstinny]

Hmmm...since there's no rev limiter, dadstinny, I'd be inclined to send your two on the water videos directly to Suzuki australia - to see if they can shed some light on the problem.On the other hand, if she behaves next time you take it out, I wouldn't bother!I can't see it in any of your pics, but how far down does the keel guard extend beyond the hull? I can't for the life of me see how raising the motor will improve water flow around the cav plate. Anyway - I hope I'm wrong and she performs up to expectations from now on.

Cheers the boat is back in my hands and looks good but will do the water test tomorrow morning and let you all know.

Not sure on why they raised it they tried to explain it but it went right over my head the keel gaurd is about 10mm or so under the boat if not more and they reduce the height about 15mm.

[Fed]

I thought they lowered the motor?

[dadstinny]

I thought they lowered the motor?

Hey Fed, yes the lowered the motor in my case.

But the reason why it was sitting to high was two fold, one because of the keel guard and secondly because they had apparently raised there mold height to accommodate a different motor but it was such a slight change in height of there mold that it has improved perfomance of other motors but had a negative affect on this new model motor.

Again not sure on why in my case it has done this but just that it has.

Could be more a case of the keel guard height and not factoring this in, I just don't know but hope its fixed as stated.

[robfish 1]

OOPS! Bugger. I read too quickly and thought that they were raising your motor. It's now obvious that they've lowered it to accommodate the keel guard. Now it begins to make sense. The guard is deflecting clean water away from the prop and causing aeration. Makes a lot more sense now. Well, I'm off to clean my glasses so I don't make anymore stupid mistakes!

[dadstinny]

OOPS! Bugger. I read too quickly and thought that they were raising your motor. It's now obvious that they've lowered it to accommodate the keel guard. Now it begins to make sense. The guard is deflecting clean water away from the prop and causing aeration. Makes a lot more sense now. Well, I'm off to clean my glasses so I don't make anymore stupid mistakes!

Its more probably the way I explained rather than your glasses lol :)!

Fingers crossed for the water test tomorrow but manufacturer was on the phone tonight checking up on things so they are behind it all the way.

[Darren Mc]

How did it go?

[odes20]

Hope no new is good news

[dadstinny]

Sorry gents just got back in from a long day been out fishing :)!

And the verdict is, drum roll....................









FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big props to the manufacturer for such a quick turnaround literally 24 hours from the time I dropped it of the boat was repaired and returned to me by the owner of the shop 250km's away plus a few freebies thrown in for the stuff around.

Boat know does not cavitate as I believe it was, no free revving like a freak of nature and hops up on the plane nice and easy.

In fact the ride is know also alot better in all aspects as it seems everything is a bit more level.

Still need the battery up front which should seal the deal in terms of weight distribution :)!

Thanks everyone for your advice again its helped me gain valuable knowledge about the new boat!

And know for a bit more detail on the boat, she is a car topper that goes on the roof of my car as I tow a van a fair bit with the family.

She is made of a super light composite glass which is resin infused.

Total weight is about 80kg's or so so fits on the roof of the car nicely.

A comparative tinnie would weigh in excess of 100kg's and is in bits and pieces.

She has been completely customised from standard to accommodate our travelling life and fishing needs which is predominately lure fishing.

Taking her to Cape York next year and can't wait and glad I got the boat early for R & D to work out all the kinks before hitting the cape :)!

Here is a pic of it -

9951899519

[Darren Mc]

That's great to hear.
Do you know what speed your getting out of it?

[dadstinny]

That's great to hear.
Do you know what speed your getting out of it?

No not yet but its certainly not as fast as my older model suzuki but its a whole lot more boat.

But 4 up its fast enough to get us moving and to where we need to be quick enough.

Ill GPS it tomorrow as I am back out fishing 5am any speed I should be looking for at WOT for a 15?

[Darren Mc]

Oh i dunno, 20 knots or so???
I've got a little 3.8 tinny with an old 18hp blue band merc on it does 19 knots.
Your boat would be lighter than my tinny.

[dadstinny]

Oh i dunno, 20 knots or so???
I've got a little 3.8 tinny with an old 18hp blue band merc on it does 19 knots.
Your boat would be lighter than my tinny.

Cheers mate ill GPS it in the morning, ill be 2 up and minimal gear but will give a good indication regardless.

[Darren Mc]

Boat looks great by the way.
Can i ask what the basic package is worth?

[Luc]

Top marks to the boat builder for customer service.

[Horse]

Great work from the builder. The boat looks a great alternative to the normal tinny on the roof

[dadstinny]

OK gps run this morning in favourable conditions 33km's an hour which is 18 knots.

We where two up with gear.

[odes20]

Great outcome happy boating now try and get some fish!

[Jarrah Jack]

Nice tinnie. Might be worth getting some sort of keel guard if you're taking it up the cape.