Siezed trim / tilt rod pin, how to remove?

[creat]

I have a seized trim tilt rod on my 30hp outboard, does anyone have any ideas on what would be the best way to remove it.

My plan was to cut it with the angle grinder and drill out the plugs but I tested drilling it and hardly made a mark so its either really hard steel or I have really blunt drill bits?

Also any recommendations on a good/cheap place in Brisbane to get a new pin (Johnson)

photo attached

[Steeler]

Can i suggest if you have not already tried giving it a squirt with some good quality penetrent ( INOX ) over a period of several days and then see if it will budge at all with some multi grips.

Maybe even some heat before the last resort of hacking away.

[Noelm]

pretty common "feature" of those, no secret method to get it out, but be careful, you can break the alloy casting, when you do get it out, replace with some stainless rod.

[Fed]

Probably the subject for another thread but I've found the best magic stuff to be good old fashioned 'Penetrene'.
(I've tried them all)

[Gon Fishun]

Looking at the pic, the right hand side of the support appears to be broken and the piece missing.

[Fed]

I can't see it Gon Fishun, looks ok to me.

I should have added penetrating oils work much better if you can build a little dam so the problem sits in a bath of it.
If it was my problem I'd cut a section out of a couple of short bits of conduit (being an old sparky) & silastick them on, one end to the alloy and the other end to the shaft then fill with penetrene and wait a few days.

[Noelm]

Yeah, I don't see what you mean by one side being broken either, I have had some success by clamping vice grips onto the shaft to turn it a tiny bit instead of trying to move it sideways.

[cormorant]

Strip of emery cloth or belt off a belt sander and go to town cleaning it up as you need it smaller and clean to get it back out without galling or snapping the alloy. Soak it, twist it and tap it. Rust will be harder than underlying metal and blunt a drill but a cobalt drill with cutting oil ( any oil) will drill it easily if it gets to that stage.

That is not as bad a sa lot you see so take some time and it will come out. have seem blokes warm the alloy and freeze the steel with pressure pack freeze kit and surprised me how well it worked in breaking that initial bond and getting movement.

Stainless rod and a couple of stainless r-pins to replace it or evinrude newer ones were stainless and wreckers would have em.

[PeterKroll]

I can see the problem that Gon Fishun refers to, but it's a perspective thing, where the right side seems to be sloping in. If you bring the picture up to full size, you can see that there is no problem with the casting.

[Gon Fishun]

I can see the problem that Gon Fishun refers to, but it's a perspective thing, where the right side seems to be sloping in. If you bring the picture up to full size, you can see that there is no problem with the casting.

Well done PK. Your right. I was looking at it in a whole different perspective. Time to get the other cataract done I think.
Cheers.

[Noelm]

hey, that's pretty good once you "see" it, but now I can't make it right again!

[creat]

Thanks for all the advice guys, some good ideas to try. hopefully I can get it out without to much fuss.

[cormorant]

Look if you end up drilling it you need to center punch it and use a pilot drill first. You will never get it 100% dead center which is a good thing as a smaller than the pin size drill will cut out one side of the pin earlier , (not big enough to cut alloy) and it will release.

[stue2]

Yep. Start small and step up one drill size at a time. You will get a lot of the pin out without it cutting into the alloy.
Soon as the drill reaches the alloy stop drilling and try a punch on the remainder.
Have drilled a few steel studs out of alloy hubs and this is most reliable if the vice grip and air hammer dont work
Air hammer provides a bit of vibration and not much more.
Cheers

[tunaticer]

First of all, before you make a mess with penetrating sprays etc, get a pair of pliers with chunky grippers and lightly grip the rusty part of the shaft and let them slip firmly around the shaft to remove the built up rust scale.....no point trying to drag that crap through the alloy casing and breaking it.
Second, grab that plastic handle on the rusted shaft with the pliers and break it off, it will stop you getting a decent twist on the shaft.
Now you have the shaft cleaned and the head off the shaft you can use that penetrating spray, give it a good dose and leave it for several hours.
Get a blow torch and heat that rusted shaft a little away from the alloy casing, the heat will travel through the shaft and through the alloy casting. When the joint starts to smoke twist the shaft with a pair of tightened vice grips, once the salt and rust bond has broken the shaft will move fairly well and come out.
Go and buy a new shaft, they arent that exy even from a johnno / evinrude dealer or buy it online from Boat Bandit.

[creat]

9872898729
Update:

Still no luck

I've cut the pin to work it one side at a time, I've squared of the pin to get a better grip, I've tried heating it(maybe not enough as the alloy gets very hot and I don't want to damage it), I've used penetrating oil.
The rod just strips the teeth on my vicegrips(genuine) so I cant get the best grip.
I've tried tapping it out with a hammer
I'm thinking concede defeat and grind it flush and hope I wont have to use that trim position ever again.

[Noelm]

Nah, keep at it, you will get it out.

[Jarrah Jack]

Drill in to just undersize of the hole. The rod will be weakened enough at the hole to get it out.

[creat]

I have a feeling Ill crack the alloy if I keep trying so I've ended up just cutting it and grinding it flush. hopefully I wont ever need that trim spot.

I did try drilling it with a Sutton bit, a masonry bit, a brand new bit, a grinding stone bit. rhs second photo you can see the little pin hole is as far as I got,

ordered this carbide tipped bit of ebay,
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290926977701?var=590133410752&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[tunaticer]

Heat the shaft away from the alloy an inch or so it will nearly glow and the heat will travel down the shaft and through the locked joint.....once it starts burning that pepetrene out oif the joint give it a twist....it will defintely come free.

[Dignity]

tunaticer, too late judging from the post previous to yours, I guess the one thing that wasn't mentioned, was a lot of patience required as it would possibly take several attempts to move it, from the pics it didn't seem that bad that after possibly 2 attempts with heat then a can of spray freeze that it wouldn't work.

[mutineer]

Now that you got em flush put cut length of pipe between and try taping in ...if you hadn't tried already

[cormorant]

I'll be blunt.

You need to get it out as otherwise given time the old pin will swell with corrosion and shatter the alloy.

Cast alloy with the web of holes is not something you want to " go to town " on with a hammer although with experience you get a feel ( after breaking a few) of just how much mustard you can use and solid pin punch to get all the weight on the pin. We have short length of railway line that we use as a " dolly" / anvil on the back side of the bracket so we can put a bit more welly into it and not shatter the alloy.

You need a Cobalt drill and I don't mean cobalt coated I mean a proper cobalt steel drill. They are used for drilling stainless. can of wd40 is good enough as a cutting oil / coolant. They aren't that expensive . You need a smaller one (2 of em) - 1/8 th to use as a pilot and one 2/3rd approx the size of the pin . Slow speed drilling with lots of weight and cutting fluid as you don't want to work harden the 304 stainless pin in front of the tip of the drill bit

Couple of ways to drill it.

Center punch the center and center punch 1'8th of a inch in from the edge of the pin. Drill the center with the pilot hole - keep it square and level. Now drill several couple close to the edge of the pin so it leaves only a wafer of pin to the alloy. Drill out the center down your pilot hole. Usually the pin now it has had it's pressure on the edge relieves will release from the heat and torque.

2nd way is to center punch a little off center, pilot drill and then follow with 2/3 size if pin drill. Again the pressure and bond to the alloy will be releases and thinner metal will have less bite so you can twist , punch

Some are tough and some are easy 2 minute jobs. The smaller motors I have found harder as I have been a bit eager with the hammer and the alloy castings are weaker - learnt my lesson to heat , twist or drill.
Not sure what area you are in but someone may be close by who is more confident on the tools and has em handy.

[tunaticer]

I would be making up a form of bearing puller gizmo now you have trimmed it flush and power it through with a decent threaded bolt.

[Fed]

I'll be blunt.

After seeing & hearing what you've done so far get your mother in law to remove it for you and if she has any trouble get an outboard guy.

[creat]

Checking out some cobalt bits now, in the meantime just had a go with the centre punch and it blunted my punch

[tunaticer]

The big secret with drilling stainless steel is lots of pressure, about 500rpm and some cutting compound/fluid. A battery drill will not have the power or the rpm to be very effective. Do not back off with the pressure, if you do you will face harden the stainless and the bit will burn off its cutting edge.
Personally I would opt for the drilling as the last option......but then again I do have a decent workshop where i make lots of tools for a specific job when needed.

[LittleSkipper]

Will heating the rod loosen the rust just enough for you to hammer punch it out without drilling?


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[tunaticer]

Any form oF hitting this will result in breaking the alloy.

[creat]

Picked up a Sutton cobalt 1/8" bit and wow she went like a hot knife through butter, also grabbed a cheap tradetools cobalt set which don't seem to work at all.
Looks like I'm going to have to get the Sutton cobalt set $170 ouch

[cormorant]

Picked up a Sutton cobalt 1/8" bit and wow she went like a hot knife through butter, also grabbed a cheap tradetools cobalt set which don't seem to work at all.
Looks like I'm going to have to get the Sutton cobalt set $170 ouch


A aussie co ( I think they still are) that make good honest bits. nah just work around the outside edge of the pin with the 1/8 th bit. You will be surprised once you weaken the pin and get one edge away it will probably just release. Yeah I have had em literally welded in but a lot of time you expect the worst and it is pretty simple and quick but sometimes it will look like a pin cushion . Do the otherside inbetween to keep the heat out of it and keep the wd40 up to it. If teh wd40 is smoking you need more of it to keep it cool spraying as you drill.

You may find that a larger quality standard drill bit with a lot of pressure will now work OK as you have a pilot hole. Just be aware of getting it hot and work hardening the stainless - ie if it doesn't just the drill isn't good enough. Careful with your wrist on low speed and into stainless as it can bite solid.

If you can get a edge drilled the freeze sprays work a treat to release stuff and I have also used screw extractors to get some torque on em but that is a bit risky with alloy around it as they put outward pressure on it.

EDIT
PS The drill kits work out much cheaper and last forever if treated right and you can just replace the bits you gradually wreck. It is just a extra hard steel with cobalt in it but it keeps its cutting edge. They usually have a different angle on them as well.