Fuel bladders

[bannana]

Next year i'm looking at changing where I fish and working south of 1770 around Frazer and need to carry more fuel. Does anyone know a cost effective supplier for marine fuel bladders around the 100-200 lt size. I see that turtle pack are very expensive and you probably get what you pay for but who else is there and has anyone experience in using bladders and can offer some tips please.

thanks

keith

[fishing111]

http://liquidcontainment.com.au/cartpage/viewproduct/12/Fuel-Bladders-Pillow-Style

These guy's do them.

[bannana]

http://liquidcontainment.com.au/cartpage/viewproduct/12/Fuel-Bladders-Pillow-Style

These guy's do them.


Cheers mate have you used them or know anyone who has?

[fishing111]

Just did a search and Deelirious a member here has, maybe send him a pm.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?172620-Fuel-Bladders/page2

[Mattya]

I've used their smaller 10lt bladder for my dirt bike. No issues with it.

[Aussie123]

I should be able to find you something at the right price Keith.
I will try and dig out some options and prices for you.
Lance

[simonpp82]

I'm in the same boat and am after a 200L bladder. I rang turtle pac and was a little gob smacked at a quote of about $1600. I then rang liquid containment and was quoted about $350 for the same thing! Turtle Pac do look top notch, but really 4.5 times the price? I can't see the justification.. I'm interested to hear also from people that have used liquid containment I haven't done anything about it yet

[Spaniard_King]

Keith I have one 200 L you can buy them off the shelf for $440 a mate has the 400L and it's a craker as well

[FisHard]

I'm in the same boat and am after a 200L bladder. I rang turtle pac and was a little gob smacked at a quote of about $1600. I then rang liquid containment and was quoted about $350 for the same thing! Turtle Pac do look top notch, but really 4.5 times the price? I can't see the justification.. I'm interested to hear also from people that have used liquid containment I haven't done anything about it yet

$350 for 200l is very attractive. Not much more than buying regular Jerry cans!

[bannana]

I should be able to find you something at the right price Keith.
I will try and dig out some options and prices for you.
Lance


thanks Lance much appreciated i'm keen to get something sorted before xmas and get the boat ready for the new trips.

[bannana]

Keith I have one 200 L you can buy them off the shelf for $440 a mate has the 400L and it's a craker as well

Garry,

Is yours a Liquidcontainment one? How do you pump the fuel into the tank or do you attach directly to the fuel lines?


Thanks

keith

[lbger]

would be interested to hear as well how they work.. i was contemplating putting another tank in my boat but this would be way easier i hope..

[Back In Black]

Heres another thought Keith.

You already carry 1000 litres. Maybe, just maybe, if you stopped doing 48 knots everywhere, you'd carry enough!!

Tony

[Aussie123]

We had a 60 liter bag strapped to the front deck of the Fisher at the 1770 M&G.
Pete had it setup with a hose and tap which was also tied to the bag or deck.
To refuel it was just a matter of running the hose along the gunwhale and dropping it into the fuel filler and opening the tap,very simple and mess free.

[Aussie123]

Can you guys give me the measurements to the bladder sizes you need and i can get some details for you.
Cost wise,bladders under 1.3m wide will be the cheapest option as any wider than that the bladder material needs to be joined and capped so that adds extra cost.
Also pillow bladders are far cheaper than a square ones due to manufacture costs.
Square shapes require 2 people to make them so that adds extra cost

[cormorant]

Have used them for thousands of miles with diesel offshore on displacement cruise and semi-planing but a lot of common sense needs to be used with petrol on a smaller faster boat that pulls so many G's of back of waves etc. Never comfortable having 1000l diesel on deck but always happier with it in drums than in bags but drums OK for deliveries not for everyday trips. Jerry cans ok in a segmented Plywood box frame tied down is what we have used ) man -handlable and easy to fill/ remove but we all know the downsides.

With bladders think about how you will secure it and what happens if you have a leak. Using on a boat without a sealed self draining deck or a bunded area you can pump is a bit of a worry. putting them in a fishbox below deck etc that drains to the bilge is a real worry as you won't know about a leak and fuel / air under the deck isn't a good mix. We have had one bladder leak ( hole) and it was a bunded one ( double skin) and I'm glad it was diesel and only 200l and another failed hose connection leak. I know it is more expensive but consider a couple of smaller ones so you don't lose all your fuel reserves with one failure and can move them.

You may have trouble at some servos as filling them in boat ( ya can't lift em) and standing up to your knees in fuel fume on a back deck ain't real good.
Some are designed to be static and others designed for active loads on open deck so make sure you get ones suitable for purpose with enough tie down points for the worst conditions at speed etc also with ability to strap them as the fuel is used to stop the free surface affect and surge which can affect stability. I have no idea if there is a applicable aussie standard but if they aren't rated fetc you may have a insurance issue should something go wrong so check with the manufacturer they are specified for your use.

Really depends on how much fuel you need, how fast that reserve will be used or if you need the deck space back . Have seen the portable stainless cruise tanks put on deck as a simple solution , stood on ends out of the way afterwards and simply stored in shed the rest of the time and no deterioration. Have also seen custom removable deck tanks welded up acting as seats or neatly in sidepockets or near the cabin bulkhead so out of the way. Obvious one is removable welded tank in the fishbox with the drain plugged and fishbox, esky on deck. A eggcup of fuel on deck can taint a whole fishbox under the floor full of fish.

So many premade shape and volumes available these days http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fuel-Tank-61LTR-MARINE-BOAT-FUEL-TANK-DIESEL-OR-PETROL-Low-Profile-200mm-NEW-/251268904114?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Never though to strap to front deck but it is at least well ventillated, self draining ,easy to do gravity feed and as long as it didn't change the dynamics of the boat handling too much. Would cop a flogging compared to back deck but if designed right it is a idea.

[cormorant]

Aussie , Lance
I know how tough the new materials are - is it worth having the outer bund, protective bag?. I've seen small ones hung on one eyelet and dropped to show how tough they but is there any way of knowing when they are deteriorating?

What is the lifetime of the new materials and what do you need to do to store them between trips to get them to last as long as possible?.

In bigger bags is there baffles or foam to stop slosh or just tighten a strap as it empties or half full?

I'm old fashioned and like solid things but the new computerised seam welding methods and materials are gradually turning me especially for water and diesel but I am a scaredy cat with petrol. I know the costs years ago was due to lodging and complying with overseas standards and small volumes being manufactured as they were a specialty ( surf lifesaving , military) thing and good to see the prices come down so much.

[Aussie123]

Hi Cormorant.
The lifespan of the fuel bladders is 7-10 years in permanent sunlight so on a boat they should last many more years due only being in the sunlight on occasional weekend/days.
Storage is just folding them up,nothing specific is needed for them.
These do not come with baffles as they are generally used in one go to dump the entire contents of the fuel into your boats tank.
Baffles can be made in them otherwise 5cm x 5cm fuel cell foam blocks can be inserted into the bladder but this removes a fair volume of fuel from the bladder so that needs to be considered when calculating bladder volumes.
These come with an eyelet in each corner and fitted with D Rings for fixing down and a strap can be run over them as well.
A ratchet strap can also work as a baffle if the bladder is partly emptied throughout the fishing trip.
I have no idea about an Australian standard for bladder tanks but one would presume any companies making fuel cells in Australia would make them to any standards and safety requirements needed.
The bladders can be made with outlet fittings to suit engine fuel lines in 1/4 inch for a single engine, 1/2 inch for twin engines or 25mm fitting to use a drain hose straight into the fuel filler if the bladder is mounted high enough for a gravity feed.
Depending on bladder size/weight and where it is kept in the boat some people may need a fuel transfer pump if no gravity feed is available or not hooked directly up to their engines.
Also remember the materials used in water and diesel bladders is not suitable for petrol.
Petrol bladders are considerably dearer due to the materials needed for petrol.

[bannana]

Can you guys give me the measurements to the bladder sizes you need and i can get some details for you.
Cost wise,bladders under 1.3m wide will be the cheapest option as any wider than that the bladder material needs to be joined and capped so that adds extra cost.
Also pillow bladders are far cheaper than a square ones due to manufacture costs.
Square shapes require 2 people to make them so that adds extra cost

600 wide and as long as needed to get 100ltrs

I would like 4 x 100ltr tanks so rectangular would be better (i'm happy with a little extra cost so they take up less deck area)

Thank you

[bannana]

Heres another thought Keith.

You already carry 1000 litres. Maybe, just maybe, if you stopped doing 48 knots everywhere, you'd carry enough!!

Tony

Tony.... what can i say other than everyone who knows me knows that I drive to the conditions and 48 knotts would be a s t r e c h at best. I'm more a 22 knot guy especially in other peoples boats.

By the way mate... Max (my avatar) is laughing at Munch!!

HaHa

[samson]

Banana I have a 400 litre liquid containment I syphon off the bow it's a hassle but better than having on the deck getting in the road,usually I don't fill it but the extra is their when I want it . I will say this much if I was to replace this one I would be putting extra thickness on the bottom to stop wear which seems to happen in the rough stuff and if your shooting for a certain amount of literage as you said you wanted 100 lt times 4 get them to make them 110 or 120lt as if they don't sit totally flush you won't get your desired literage,apart from that even when syphoning their a damn sight better than jerries though I have thought about hooking it up to the motors on the long hauls where I can knock it over on the run out.

[cormorant]

especially with a abrasive deck get the manufacturer to supply a underliner . It also acts as a UV and damage protector for when rolled up and not in use. fancy ATL ones I have used years ago came with it I think and straps as part of the kit. I wonder if 2 guys sitting on the bladder eating lunch is a approved siphon method??? when we had forgotten the pump. It worked.

[ric]

Why not use 44 gal drums and just sink them when you have the tank space to unload?

[bannana]

Banana I have a 400 litre liquid containment I syphon off the bow it's a hassle but better than having on the deck getting in the road,usually I don't fill it but the extra is their when I want it . I will say this much if I was to replace this one I would be putting extra thickness on the bottom to stop wear which seems to happen in the rough stuff and if your shooting for a certain amount of literage as you said you wanted 100 lt times 4 get them to make them 110 or 120lt as if they don't sit totally flush you won't get your desired literage,apart from that even when syphoning their a damn sight better than jerries though I have thought about hooking it up to the motors on the long hauls where I can knock it over on the run out.

Thanks mate thats the info i'm after and makes good sense.

Cheers

[kaypee]

Keith I'm thinkin the exact same thing as you and so is my good mate with his boat.. Plus we both were thinkin 2 x 100l rectangle bladders.. So please keep us posted here on what you find.. If the sizes required are similar we might pick up a deal?? 8 x the same size??? Just a thought...

[bannana]

Keith I'm thinkin the exact same thing as you and so is my good mate with his boat.. Plus we both were thinkin 2 x 100l rectangle bladders.. So please keep us posted here on what you find.. If the sizes required are similar we might pick up a deal?? 8 x the same size??? Just a thought...


No worries mate I'll wait and see how lance goes and we can sort from there.

Cheers

[overdraft]

I've got two on my boat had them for two years now no problems at all.
They take about 140litres each.
Danny

[Aussie123]

I should have some details tomorrow Keith.
I am just waiting for the quotes to come back.

[Deelirious]

Cormorant seems to be right on the money re fit for prupose and safety considerations.

I currently have 3 fuel bladders from Liquid Containment and two water bladders. All 3 fuel bladders are of different designs and have either been designed and made to fit into an underfloor compartment or to sit on the deck they range in size from 75l to about 150l and none of them have baffles and have not required them. I have a spare fuel hose plumbed into my fuel filter with a 3way tap and just use quick connect fittings on the bladders and the engine just pumps them straight from the bladder - no worries, no siphoning and no spillage.

I've had an earlier bladder leak under the floor and yep i foolishly had the bung out of the compartment into the bilge and it makes a big mess that is very dangerous and difficult to clean up but since replacing this bladder and then purchasing additional bladders I've used them for hundreds of hours without mishap. As cormorant says though its definitely worth having a plan about what you are going to do if you end up with 100l of premium unleaded fuel in your bilge.......

Cormorants issues with fumes when refuelling are real and if you don't want to get sick before you put onto the water make sure you sort out your ventillation before running off to the servo to fill your new bladder especially if its up in the cab.

Bladders have their place especially in a multi purpose boat not only used for long trips or on long trips where you want to recover that extra space once the fuel is used. A solid tank would be safer in almost all situations especially with unleaded but solid tanks don't always make the best use of awkward spaces.

Paul at liquid Containment has been making custom fuel bladders of all shapes and sizes for a long time and hes a helpful guy and I'd certainly recommend giving him a call and having a chat to him. You should be able to get his contact details off his web site.

[Aussie123]

The custom made bladder price for Keith's dimensions are $425 each.
They are 600mm wide and 100 liters.
The materials for petrol bladders is much dearer and adds about $130 extra to the costs.
I sent you a pm Keith.