Are Tohatsu leaving TLDI for 4 strokes?

[davo]

My wife came home with the latest magazine and there is an advertisement for the new Tohatsu 4 strokes up to 225 HP. Not much detail but they look like dark grey Hondas to me.

[LittleSkipper]

Tohatsu are finally bringing out the big guns? Found this advert on the Tohatsu website under there news category, they look very futuristic.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/01/yba5u7ys.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/01/atu9a5um.jpg

Tohatsu Corporation has released the attached press document with regard a range of larger 4-stroke Outboards to be available early in the New Year - 2014.

In short what this means is loyal Tohatsu Owners will no longer have to make a brand change just because they move into larger craft requiring high end horsepower units.

The new line up will include 4-Stroke models in 60hp - 250hp and will be presented in the Tohatsu Aqua Marine Blue Colour and attractive decals.

Lakeside Marine Pty Ltd the National Distributor is looking forward to adding these additional models to thier existing range of Outboards and will release further details in early course.

Full details of the New Four Stroke range from 40hp - 250hp
available from your local Tohatsu Dealer in December!

I couldn't see them dropping direct injection 2 strokes for 4 strokes but perhaps have both in the market...who knows?

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[Steeler]

Gary Spaniard King posted a little while back about the the supplying of Honda's to Tohi.

[Spaniard_King]

::)Yeh, I cant wait to see their pricing

[LittleSkipper]

Yes! The pricing will be very interesting indeed. So are these new Tohatsu 4 strokes effectively a Honda?


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[Spaniard_King]

Yes! The pricing will be very interesting indeed. So are these new Tohatsu 4 strokes effectively a Honda?


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Yep, they sure are. Just more service work I take off the Tohy dealers if they ever sell one:)

[LittleSkipper]

Always good for business I guess. Why is it that manufacturers are more and more using other manufacturers outboard technology and rebadging them as there own? Do they not think that the average consumer these days will not know what these manufacturers are up to? You would almost think there trying to hoodwink consumers?


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[myusernam]

that 50 above is the ugliest outboard since the seagull! that one musn't be a honda? the 60 in the next photo looks the same as honda

[Noelm]

I guess in a way, a Tohatsu will always be a Tohatsu, so unless you go into a Tohatsu dealer shopping for a new motor, will he be able to "sell you" on the fact that it is a Honda in disguise, and even then, will the average person believe him? I am lead to believe there will be no price reduction for the Tohatsu model, so at least the long time Honda dealer will not have to "compete" on an un-even playing field, to me, a Honda shopper is looking for a Honda, not a rebadged copy? that's my thoughts on the whole thing!

[Dave_H]

Always good for business I guess. Why is it that manufacturers are more and more using other manufacturers outboard technology and rebadging them as there own? Do they not think that the average consumer these days will not know what these manufacturers are up to? You would almost think there trying to hoodwink consumers?


No-one is trying to hoodwink anyone. If you look at the small range of Merc 2 stroke outboards, which have been produced by Tohatsu (Nissan) for quite some time now).

If you look at the ownership of Nissan (Tohatsu), major shareholders of Brunswick Corp (owners of Mercury Marine), and also shareholders of Honda they are tied-in with one another, and have been for some time.

It is the way it is in manufacturing. It has even been done in Australia before by vehicle manufacturers: Holden VN Commodore/Toyota Lexcen, Ford Laser/Mazda 323, Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ etc etc, and in outboards with various Suzuki/OMC/Yam get togethers at previous points in history...

Nothing to hoodwink anyone paying attention.

[LittleSkipper]

No-one is trying to hoodwink anyone. If you look at the small range of Merc 2 stroke outboards, which have been produced by Tohatsu (Nissan) for quite some time now).

If you look at the ownership of Nissan (Tohatsu), major shareholders of Brunswick Corp (owners of Mercury Marine), and also shareholders of Honda they are tied-in with one another, and have been for some time.

It is the way it is in manufacturing. It has even been done in Australia before by vehicle manufacturers: Holden VN Commodore/Toyota Lexcen, Ford Laser/Mazda 323, Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ etc etc, and in outboards with various Suzuki/OMC/Yam get togethers at previous points in history...

Nothing to hoodwink anyone paying attention.

Do you feel better now Dave that you have got that off your chest? I certainly do!


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[FisHard]

So here's the $64 million question:
How much cheaper does a (let's say) 150 HP four stroke Tohatsu have to be, before you buy it over the Honda??

[Spaniard_King]

The Advice we have received as Honda Dealers is they won't be cheaper than a Honda......Santa has promised free delivery on TOHONDAS too :P

[LittleSkipper]

The only time you see the word "Cheap" is in a dictionary. It's quite clear now that if you compare the Honda model numbers with what Tohatsu have released they are definately Honda outboards, they've just placed the letter 'T' in front of Hondas model number BF. ie: BFT You could call them 'HonHatsu' or 'HoHatsu.


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[FisHard]

I like Thondu

[Spaniard_King]

I like Thondu

I will stick with Honda :)

[BigE]

garry
what's the inside word on warrenty will the honda dealer network perform the tohatsu warrenty work? my general opinion is that the tohatsu brand does not have a very good rep for customer service and claims and if I were shopping, the backup service would be front and centre of my decision making and ifthere wasn't a big saving in the deal i think i would like to have the honda on the back from an owning and reselling prospective.


BigE

[Spaniard_King]

Tohatsu Warranty on all there engines will be through Lakeside as per normal... that would include warranty parts as well

I have herd Tohy warranty is not the best

[Homer_Jay]

I have herd Tohy warranty is not the best

What warranty is now days??? On anything!

[Spaniard_King]

HJ go read JB's thread on his 200HP and tell me you would have been better off without warranty!

[gavwk]

some warranty

[cormorant]

HJ go read JB's thread on his 200HP and tell me you would have been better off without warranty!


In real terms probably sitting with a brand new motor on the back of his rig as it would have been a straight claim of goods not of merchantable quality instead of a manufacturer doing what they have done. The warranty and the fact the claim was made in the first place via it has made the issue less clear as once it is a warranty job it just goes into the manufacturers process.

Really hope they do the right thing for JB and ensure if there was another failure that they replace it and also fix him up for the stress and loss of use of his boat. No one could be happy with the way it has proceeded and above all there is no excuse for poor communication. I can't see any of the blame in that situation going to JB so it is manufacturer , dealer network and mechanic who need to pull their fingers out. Unless the manufacturer is 100% sure of the reason of failure I am surprised with a new generation motor they didn't replace it and fly the powerhead home.

Be very interesting if it is worth importing tohondu from asia into Australia as each country has a different pricing structure.

[Spaniard_King]

Corm,

I don't see why the manufacturer has to replace the entire engine, if this was the standard it would thin out the outboard market considerably!!

I can tell you the customer feels no different about an engine failure 2 or 3 years down the track but no one talks about replacing the entire engine then.

The concern here is the time frame. If a new block was fitted a week after the failure would this thread exist?

[TopBhoy]

In real terms probably sitting with a brand new motor on the back of his rig as it would have been a straight claim of goods not of merchantable quality instead of a manufacturer doing what they have done. The warranty and the fact the claim was made in the first place via it has made the issue less clear as once it is a warranty job it just goes into the manufacturers process.

Really hope they do the right thing for JB and ensure if there was another failure that they replace it and also fix him up for the stress and loss of use of his boat. No one could be happy with the way it has proceeded and above all there is no excuse for poor communication. I can't see any of the blame in that situation going to JB so it is manufacturer , dealer network and mechanic who need to pull their fingers out. Unless the manufacturer is 100% sure of the reason of failure I am surprised with a new generation motor they didn't replace it and fly the powerhead home.

Be very interesting if it is worth importing tohondu from asia into Australia as each country has a different pricing structure.
I agree, the manufacturer warranty clouded the issue. The failure of a brand new engine surely has nothing to do with the manufacturer and all to do with the retailer. The problem JB ultimately had at the outset was that he bought the engine elsewhere and not the yamaha service centre where he went for the work to be done. JB now seems to be getting some closure so no use dwelling on it any longer.

[cormorant]

Go to the other extreme and if the motor failed in the tank test on fitting and they flew a new short block up and fitted next day. Did you get what you paid for? You paid for it and it was fitted? What if it failed on the dealer water test. We are talking a motor that the client told em was knocking at 20 hours and he is not mechanically minded and for whatever reason they couldn't hear it.

Personally I would want one out of the factory not a bitsa. Have been on both sides of the counter Gary so understand it. So much can be smoothed over with proper communication and time frame . The loss of value is a lot less on a 3 year old motor than one that has just left the shop so emotion is much higher as you haven't had several years of use from it. You never know what the future holds and if JB has to sell that rig it will bring less $ having different numbers and a failure in my opinion.

Bottom line is the fault existed in that engine when it came out of the crate. Most motors these days that make 100 -200 hours live a long life as you know.
Like certain motors where the oil filters weren't being filled and the motors cycled before starting on initial and later oil fills so a thrust and other bearing was a early failure. Never no exactly what the cause is till it is 100 % diagnosed and human error ones in the field are one of the hardest to discover.

In this case a new motor fitted would have saved a lot of reputation damage and not set a precedent as so few fail at such low hours . Yeah I know - where do you draw the line? 50 or 51 hours.52 perhaps? .

As a little bird said to me the other day. Why was there no short blocks left in stock ?

Why do car insurance companies do new for old on cars under 3 years. Well it is because they can buy a new car at a cheaper price wholesale than the retail pay out value of the car. With that reference and having a idea of what a motor actually costs the manufacturer off the production line I would be surprised if it wasn't more economical to replace motor for JB and have a bloke with no regrets than the reputational damage with forums and the internet these days. .