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daveo17
24-11-2013, 05:30 PM
over the last 3 months when ever i got a chance i have been fitting out my new boat.
its a poly boat from new Zealand its 3.5m long and 1700 wide weighs 120kg and takes a 30hp. hoping to get it on the water in the next couple of weeks. any ideas for the rest of the fit out would be appreciated. i have finished 90% of the electronics lights bilge ect just
need to work out some kind of a bait board and transducer bracket.

cheers dave

Apollo
24-11-2013, 06:51 PM
Looks good. My only suggestion would be to replace the handle on the casting deck to one that is flush with the deck. The one you have will take out a toe or worst.

billpatt
25-11-2013, 07:42 AM
Have you heard of Poly Boat Owners? They have some really good ideas on that site. You should check them out if you're not already a member.

daveo17
25-11-2013, 01:57 PM
yeah i tried to join even sent emails to admin no reply are you a member?

netmaker
25-11-2013, 03:27 PM
looks sweet dave. bowmount on the wish list?

Gazza
25-11-2013, 04:34 PM
needs a bimini , or it'll melt in the Qld sun....only nearly jok'n m8.....nice rig :thumbsup:

daveo17
25-11-2013, 05:27 PM
yeah its on the wish list dave but i just brought my first house so its all about savin pennys now maybe tax time next year lol

bushbeachboy
28-11-2013, 07:34 PM
G'day Dave. Nice boat mate. Don't worry about it melting in the sun - you're so far south you're almost not in Qld........
I'm a member at Polyboatowners. I'll give the site owner (Doug) a nudge. Unusual for him not to reply. The silly old phart is probably still wobbling his zimmer frame toward the computer.
Cheers mate.

chocolatemoose
28-11-2013, 07:37 PM
plastic boats.. pff only total nut cases would buy those!!



lol. plastic........still cant get over how silly that is!

Giffo65
28-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Davo
You will love your plastic boat,they are great,I have had a Polycraft 4.5 for 11 years and been all over the place in it.Don't worry about Chocolatecow,he would not know his arse from his elbow ! As Apollo said,lose that handle on the casting deck,I can see a toe boing missing there.Send Doug another email at Polyboatowners,tell him we sent you and he will feel sorry for you.

daveo17
29-11-2013, 05:23 AM
sweet will give them a email over the weekend thanks. still making up my mind about the handle might just finish up running a small peace of rope.

netmaker
29-11-2013, 07:26 AM
sweet will give them a email over the weekend thanks. still making up my mind about the handle might just finish up running a small peace of rope.

no. you will trip over it. go to a chandlery and get a recessed latch. cost you no more than $15.

chocolatemoose
29-11-2013, 10:56 AM
yep i take it all back. polys are the way to go! awesome boat there :)

daveo17
29-11-2013, 06:36 PM
almost for got the led pic

daveo17
20-12-2013, 06:53 AM
just a few more pics should be on the water this weekend

Jabiru658
20-12-2013, 08:10 AM
That's a neat fitout, haven't seen a smartliner in other than bare form before.

As for poly boats I had a Polycraft 4.55 C/C for a few years and it was the most durable boat I've ever owned (no need to worry about gelcoat) and you couldn't kill it if you tried.

Oh and you'll get used to the plastic boat jokes after a while :)

Apollo
20-12-2013, 08:12 AM
She is looking the bomb now mate. Or as a few lads I meet the other day would say, "fully sic"

daveo17
20-12-2013, 02:50 PM
as for as i know i am the first one to put a casting deck on one of these. just crossing my fingers hoping it sits in the water OK

daveo17
25-12-2013, 01:49 PM
had a few dramas on my first trip. when ever i get on the plane the bow drops down to low and makes it hard to steer . so i tried tilting the engine up a couple of holes and that made it very uncontrollable. so now i am thinking my casting deck is to heavy? any ideas, solutions or
theorys would be appreciated

Moonlighter
25-12-2013, 04:29 PM
Check the engine height on the transom, you would be amazed how big a difference it makes when the engine height is set correctly.

Most engines are set too deep in the water. The best way to check is to get the boat onto the plane and you should be able to see the anti-ventilation plate just skimming the surface of the water at a decent cruise speed. The AV plate is the wide plate immediately above the prop.

if its below the water, engine is too deep and should be lifted higher on the transom bolts so its just skimming the surface or getting splashed.

That would be one if the first things to check and get right. Too deep can cause the kind of symptoms you are experiencing.

When you are adjusting the engine trim pin, do it one hole at a time and then re-test. If you lift the engine, maybe drop the trim pin down one hole before you test.

netmaker
25-12-2013, 05:41 PM
hey dave, post up a pic of your transom with motor down.

daveo17
25-12-2013, 05:56 PM
thanks moonlighter didn't know that rule about height i guess that might why i am getting a lot of wash over the transom when i stop suddenly.

fishychrissy
25-12-2013, 08:30 PM
thanks moonlighter didn't know that rule about height i guess that might why i am getting a lot of wash over the transom when i stop suddenly.

Hi Dave,
Got the same problem with my tinny at the mo
Exactly the same symptoms since I changed the motor to a 30hp.
Same shite handling too. Took my Minn Kota off and removed the battery but still does it.
I get more wash over the transom now too.
Cheers

daveo17
25-12-2013, 08:42 PM
i am going to have to fabricate a bracket for mine when i go back to work. problem is that's in two weeks time. i feel your pain chrissy i will let you know if i come up with a easy solution

Moonlighter
25-12-2013, 10:08 PM
Correctly set motor height can turn a boat that handles like a dog into a good thing. And vice versa. Well worth getting right.

From the pic posted its hard to tell, but it looks like the motor bracket might be set as low as is possible and the engine also looks to be trimmed in a long way. Some more pictures showing itfrom side on and directly behind so so we can see the bottom of the hull and the motor leg in relation to it would help.

It is easy to lift small hp motors like that. Lift it one hole higher, retest carefully, and see if it improves. Check where that cav plate is when its on the plane at a decent speed. If it improves and the prop is still holding on in turns, lift it another hole and retest. If the prop loses grip in reasonable turns after that it may need to drop it back down 1 hole. If not, leave it there.

it is a bit if trial and error, so go carefully and change one thing at a time, and retest.

daveo17
26-12-2013, 08:31 AM
the transom plate has a lip on it and was the highest i could get the motor. can an outboard be held on with just bolts and no clamps? I will get a better picture today but iam sure you have hit the nail on the head cheers moonlighter

fishychrissy
26-12-2013, 10:46 AM
i am going to have to fabricate a bracket for mine when i go back to work. problem is that's in two weeks time. i feel your pain chrissy i will let you know if i come up with a easy solution

Cheers Daveo, would be really interested to know how you go
Hope you can solve the problem
Good luck
chris

daveo17
26-12-2013, 12:06 PM
here are some better pics

STUIE63
26-12-2013, 12:43 PM
It looks about 2 inches to low to me

Moonlighter
26-12-2013, 02:31 PM
It looks about 2 inches to low to me

I agree. The anti -vent plate looks to be well below the line of the keel. It is almost certainly too low by quite a distance.

If there are 4 bolts holding it on, that should do the job. Brisbane marine may care to comment on that too.

daveo17
26-12-2013, 03:16 PM
it would be 4 m8 ss bolts through two 8mm ally plates 60mm to 70mm apart transom thickness. looking at them i reckon i could gain another 100mm in height if i had to. but i agree with stu 50mm would do the trick

fishychrissy
26-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Hope that works Daveo, 6 more days then I'm home again and I can try and get the problem sorted. Can't remember offhand how much it sits below but I remember the mechanic trying to line something up with the keel? Maybe I could get some custom work done to the transom if all else fails? Dunno?
Cheers

Fed
27-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Has anyone had a real close look at the pictures of the back running surface?

Maybe I'm not seeing it right but it looks like it needs some transom support then leave it in the sun on a hot day.
There's enough hook there to plane & plough a Manly Ferry.
I wouldn't think it's 'by design' have there been any repairs done to the back of it?
Another candidate for a string line or straight edge.

How is your fishfinder at speed, is that chunk of alloy hanging below the hull, not that it would matter as the transducer looks to be well above the hull.

Even the top of the transom looks to be pulling out & the step area looks to be pushing in, sometimes pictures can be deceiving though.

daveo17
27-12-2013, 07:28 AM
fish finder is fine its sealed underneath. its a brand new boat so no transom repairs to my knowledge and i can assure you the transom is sold as a rock. can you explain to me what i would line up the straight edge with or what the purpose of doing this is?

Fed
27-12-2013, 07:38 AM
Start with the keel Dave, put a straight edge along the last couple of feet on the keel to see if it's concave (hooked).

As I said the pictures can sometimes lie but the transducer looks to be way too high and the alloy bracket looks like it's hanging below the hull a little, I couldn't imagine it getting a reading above 10 or 15 Knots?

daveo17
27-12-2013, 07:54 AM
it is deceiving in the pictures because the hull is a M shape and the water line is top of the back steps. but i will have a look with the straight edge just to check. i must admit the days i went out were very ruff for that size boat.

Fed
27-12-2013, 08:39 AM
See what looks lie a gap between the yellow line & the hull?
It doesn't take much.

Moonlighter
27-12-2013, 08:55 AM
I see what Fed means too re the transducer - that is a weird placement of the transducer, it appears to be well above the line of the hull, but perhaps the pictures are misleading? Normally, if you are looking from directly behind the transducer, you would expect its lower surface to be just 10-15mm below the line if the hull at the same point. This way, it will be running in a clear stream of water when the boat is zooming along on the plane. Hope that explains it clearly!

New boats can have a "hook" in the hull, and i imagine that poly boats could, if they came out of the mould too early and had weight added too soon to the transom, or not be placed on a proper trailer, end up with a hook in the hull as a result. That could also cause the symptoms you describe.

I do know of one guy up Hervey Bay way who sent his boat back to the factory due to similar issues and i heard that they put it back into the mould and reheated it, and let it set properly, it was then OK.

daveo17
27-12-2013, 05:17 PM
theres about 5mm of hook over 300mm right where you drew the line and that's it. yeah i get what your saying about the transducer. i only put it there because i am paranoid of crushing it but ive had it out for 2 trips and it seemed to work fine. just gotta get that bow up and i will be happy with it. just gotta keep in mind its not a normal shaped hull like a tinnie or fiber glass

Fed
27-12-2013, 05:27 PM
That 5mm hook will do it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the hook was caused by the trailer I remember reading somewhere poly boats have to be very well supported.

Might have to call the manufacturer for advice on this one, I was only joking about supporting the transom & leaving it out in the sun.

daveo17
27-12-2013, 06:32 PM
that's the weird part i have never had anything under that part of the boat. so if lifting the engine dose not fix it i am guessing i will have to cover the hooked section with a 3mm alloy plate bent at the angle of the hull.

odes20
28-12-2013, 07:04 AM
I wouldn't start trying to compensate or provide adjustment to the hull. Heaps of boats I worked on have a little hook like that. The most obvious thing is to lift the motor. I know a bad hook can do this but looking at the pic you can lift that motor some

daveo17
28-12-2013, 07:13 AM
i can get 50mm to 100mm out of it and that's the first thing i am trying. then if it works i will fabricate a bolt on bracket for the engine clamps when i go back to work.

Moonlighter
28-12-2013, 07:35 AM
Is the trailer it is sitting on the trailer recommended by the manufacturer? And set up how they recommend it should be?

It would definitely be recommended to talk to the boat manufacturer about the trailer.

Fed is right about Poly boats needing trailers that are correctly designed to suit them. Here is what Queensland's Polycraft boats say about trailers for their poly boats:

What trailer should I use?

Answer

All Polycraft boats must be trailered and stored on a Polycraft approved trailer. Currently there is only (1) trailer manufacturers that produce Polycraft approved trailers - Oceanic Trailers. The full length skids on these purpose built trailers, help to support and cradle the hull. Trailering and storage of a Polycraft boat on a regular ‘rollered’ trailer will see the hull warp and buckle due to the impact of the hull weight on the roller mounds.

So even if lifting the motor sorts it out for now, if the trailer is wrongly set up or unsuitable, the hook could continue to worsen, especially now you that have a bigger, heavier motor on the back.

You might have treated the symptoms, but the root cause may still be there. A discussion with the manufacturer, or one of their experienced dealers, about the suitability of the current trailer you have costs nothing and may provide a lasting solution.

daveo17
28-12-2013, 08:20 AM
in the videos and photos i have seen of these boats they have just been sitting in 2 carpet skids. but yeah might be worth an email get some extra info didn't really come with any manuals just turned up on my front lawn one day warped in plastic.

Fed
28-12-2013, 11:07 AM
Your skids stop well short of the transom, look at the 3rd picture in your post #28 and you can clearly see where the back of the hull is bending down.
It also looks to be over a fairly wide area, at least out to what appears to be strakes on the first part of the deadrise.

No wonder it's trying to turn into a submarine.

Think about this Dave (You too fishychrissy)

Imagine your AV plate was a Metre below the hull, your boat would probably do backflips. Raising the motor will only reduce bowlift.

Either way no amount of motor height tweaking will overcome the hook.

Forget the alloy plate idea, call the manufacturers and see if they can suggest a way to straighten it out.

fishychrissy
28-12-2013, 12:26 PM
I've got a 1 year old Oceanic trailer with 3 keel rollers, plus the 2 skids, it's set up like any other normal tinny trailer you see at the ramp I thought

daveo17
28-12-2013, 02:05 PM
like i said fed iam going to lift the engine because its easy to do to test the theory then if it fails your right and everyone else will be wrong havent got much to loose by trying this. i have also sent the appropriate emails to the boat maker cheers guys

daveo17
28-12-2013, 02:09 PM
smartwave tend to agree with fed:

Hello Dave

Thank you for your email.

There are normally 2 reasons for this

A) The setting of the angle of the motor
B) If the bottom of the hull near the transom has a hook-(depression ) in it.

By the look of the picture the skids don’t protrude past the end of the boat. With the weight of the motor this looks to have caused the hull to depress.

So what I suggest is that the skids are repositioned so they carry the load of the hull and protrude out the back by at least 60mm. Make sure the skids are long enough to support at least 75% of the hull length.
The skids must carry the hull weight NOT any rollers.

Don’t worry about the depression or hook underneath because when the trailer is set up correctly this hook will come out and the hull return to orginial shape as when it was moulded.
Polyethylene is able to move. This is what give the boat a soft ride.

Look forward to hearing how you get on

Regards,

David Hickmott l Owner/Manager l Advantage Plastics

daveo17
28-12-2013, 02:18 PM
might make some longer skids and sit it in the sun

Moonlighter
28-12-2013, 09:08 PM
And still get that motor height set correctly as well!

Motor too low = lose speed, worse fuel economy, poor handling boat.

daveo17
29-12-2013, 06:33 AM
iam fixing trailer today. then i will let it sit for a couple of days outside. then if the hook has gone i will test it and work out a motor height.
thankyou fed/moonlighter if i ever meet you blokes i owe you a beer.

odes20
29-12-2013, 07:05 AM
On both threads on here at present the whole issue is being danced around. Guys if your motors are low you will bury your bow. Lift the motors and lets see. The most obvious and proven solution is being out smarted by the forensic scientists. And the two boat owners are being driven around like Miss Daisy. To think you will move a tiny hook off a plastic boat by having the runners further back is saying its a piece of.... which is vunerable to the weather. What a load of. A bendable boat. That's great. Whaa??? Ive seen greater hooks in fiberglass boats than 5 mm and your wont fix that by sitting them out in the sun Ha! All no prob with correct motor positioning.

daveo17
29-12-2013, 12:40 PM
i am just going with what the manufacture told me to do first: no rollers touching and 75% on skids. i have also been looking around youtube for other smartwave owners and all of there cav plates sit 25mm to 50mm below the water line. i think its just
going to be trial and error from here on in. thank you everybody for your support and guidance I don't want my thread turning
into a ego driven shit fight so that will do cheers

Darren Mc
30-12-2013, 10:44 PM
I think you've definitely done the right thing there daveo17. Looks good now. I also think what Fed has said is on the money.

daveo17
07-01-2014, 06:24 AM
went for a test run with most of the hook removed same results. will use camera mount next time for better shots.


http://youtu.be/mW0ngwqh-og


http://youtu.be/yJ3y5w-gCQ4

odes20
07-01-2014, 06:38 AM
so Daveo could you actually see the cav plate when planning? I couldn't see from your vids, just wondering if it was coming up out of the water?

daveo17
07-01-2014, 06:51 AM
nope cav plate well below when running. when its sitting and iam down the back at rest water comes up to second plate

daveo17
07-01-2014, 06:54 AM
20"/500mm transom 21.7 inch leg = pain in the ass

Fed
08-01-2014, 08:45 AM
I'd be removing all of the hook before trying anything else Daveo.

Actually the videos don't look too bad so I guess you had to be there to get a real feel for how it was handling.

daveo17
09-01-2014, 10:04 AM
cruses ok at 25 its just when i get up around 40 it get scary but like i said trial and error so many variables to consider. also got on to the poly boat owners web site had a chat with a few other smartwave owners apparently the hook is a pretty common thing and i have been assured it will come out in time

JohnWF
14-01-2014, 11:44 AM
Hi Daveo17.

I have a smartwave 3500 and have the same problems. It also has a hook at the rear of the keel, was there from new. Like you I can cruise comfortable at 35kph with predictable handling, but when up to 40kph it feels like it is trying to bury the nose into the water. Current motor is a 25hp Mercury sea pro (out to 30hp) but am changing to the new Suzuki 20hp four stroke. Will try some of the suggestions in this thread in a couple of weeks and report back.

daveo17
16-01-2014, 08:48 PM
interesting to hear the hook was there from new maybe mine was aswell. anyway i have decided to build a pod for mine to lift the engine and move it back

GBC
17-01-2014, 04:58 AM
Even the one in the promo vid does it - you'll note they don't get over 3/4 throttle very often, but when they do the bow dips. I'd say you might get a bit of improvement, but you are going to have to live with a hull that doesn't need/use/handle a lot of power.

vass
29-01-2014, 04:56 PM
Hey Dave, How is the boat going?
What did smartave say about he hook in he hull?
I'm the one with the fully decked out smartave 3500 on polyboatowners :)
I might be putting skids in roller holders like u see on polycraft trailers.
My hook is only in he middle V and guess the above mentioned procedure will straighten it up as the skids atm are furthest out they can be before the hull angle dips again.

daveo17
29-01-2014, 06:36 PM
hi vass good to see your on ausfish. I am currently in the process of building a pod to mimic your engines position. it will be 120mm back 60 mm up. as for the trailer mine has been in the correct setup for a month now and it has not changed the boat at all. i am starting to think its a design flaw in the hull but iam hoping the engine position will fix my problem. your boat never had any planing issues did it ?

vass
29-01-2014, 07:43 PM
Hehe iv'e been a member for a while but never posted (2007 lol)

I only had a little delay getting on the plane when on the 3rd hole on the outboard trim.
2nd and 1st holes are good.
Did smartwave guys say there should not be any hook at all?
I would consider a tach if I were you as u could see whats going on with your prop pitch etc, ur prop may b totally wrong for ur weight setup.
My tach wont work atm so until merc fix my problem I too cannot get the prop right but id'e say ur weight is similar to mine.
My deck is built out of celuka and aluminum frame so its very light but I have 100ah deep cycle in front (28 kg) and 14kg crank battery in back side.
Console is pretty light too and there is a 70L livewell in front. Power trim tilt unit is 10kg and motor about 54kg.
Funny thing is my boat goes a tad faster with 2 than 1 and im guessing that is due to pitch. She hit 48km/h last trip with full tank an a mate.

daveo17
29-01-2014, 07:57 PM
he said it was a common problem. like i said in earlier posts its going to be a lot of trial and error I may even have to lighten my casting deck if changing the engine position dose not work.
but i am sure the pod will help with the transom wash issue anyway.

vass
29-01-2014, 09:21 PM
I'll let you know what happens with my performance once I get rid of the hook, id'e say top end will increase a little but it will be interesting to see what a solas prop with the right pitch does after that when I hook a tacho that reads correctly. My fuel usage seems a tad heavy too but id'e say it's the hook in my hull at transom.
I'm not after the best wot speed, my goal here is good economy and best cruise speed

daveo17
30-01-2014, 03:51 PM
i wouldn't worry about the hook to much yours is very minimal. but the best way i found to get rid of it is by using a heat gun on it with a bottle jack pushing down from above with some nice soft packers between the jack and the plastic

daveo17
05-02-2014, 04:11 PM
just thought i would post up some pics of my lifting bracket. lifted the motor 70mm and back 70mm have yet to test it bacause of this bloody wind.

100241100240100239100238

odes20
05-02-2014, 08:21 PM
Interesting. we will be keen to see the outcomes

daveo17
08-02-2014, 08:35 PM
had a test run today control was better.had best results with second pin third pin caused cavitation.bow sill tended to drop at speeds over 25kmph so iam thinking it has to much weight in the front. so iam going to do some serious weight reduction on the casting deck and get a foil to help with handling.

vass
17-02-2014, 10:51 PM
Hi dave, just letting you know what's up with mine.

With my front deck I have 30kg battery and a 54lb waternake which would be about 10kg. I also have a livewell (8kg) up front plus the console (10kg) and the decking maybe another 15-20kg.
I got a new tacho (tohatsu tach) installed, well my 30hp merc is really a tohatsu and it has apparently been tested and is suppose to be fine but I only manage 4000 rpm @ 46km/h last time (2 ppl) on the fresh. Now I know what my problem is and why hole shot is a little sluggish. I should be getting 5250-5850rpm so I'm going to get the correct prop and see what happens. Guessing i'll be gaining a lot more top end and hole shot.
My balance is nice with 2 ppl, boat doesn't lean to sides at all.
I also wouldn't eliminate the possibility that your prop size/pitch is incorrect. Normally when u get a outboard for a boat u have to get the right prop/pitch for the boat and weight balance you have. On my merc it just comes with one but that wouldn't work well with everything and I also hear my aluminium one doesn't like to run high on the water level.

Does yours lean left or right with 1 and 2 ppl onboard? I'm just thinking this could cause unstabilty?
Also have u played with ur trim tab above the prop?
one more question, have u tried the boat with 2 ppl up back etc and tried putting more weight in the back?

daveo17
18-02-2014, 04:53 PM
hi vass good to hear from ya. i have fitted a ozplate hydrofoil it has improved my handling but still going bow down at 30kmph plus. haven't tried it with 2 people yet. i have not touched that tab since i brought the engine. next step for me is to test it with the casting deck out and if it still has problems I will try a new prop.

also can i get a picture of your cavitation plate height ?

vass
18-02-2014, 08:50 PM
Hi Dave
Will put a pic up tomorrow for you. It is 30mm above the transom

daveo17
19-02-2014, 05:07 AM
good mine is about the same. Ive never had so many complications with a small boat lol