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Almako
26-10-2013, 04:37 PM
G'day guys and girls,

I would like to hear from people who have had experience selling their boats to use the money for investment for a while, and either succeeded and brought a bigger and better one or simply ended up buying another boat because you couldn't live without one.

Cheers
Al

Marlin_Mike
26-10-2013, 05:22 PM
I bought another boat cause I couldnt go without one.

Lotsa scams out there when selling a boat, they start almost the minute your ad hits fleabay, gumtree or boats online. Just be careful if youre selling.

I sold my last one cause I didnt use it. Now with a slight lifestyle change, I am planning to use it alot.

Chimo
26-10-2013, 06:37 PM
Hi Al

IMHO it depends what you have in mind and more particularly the quality and volume of advice you have obtained.

Probably need about 10 yrs growth to make $s from real estate atm and thats on investment stuff not what you live in. IMHO you dont make $s on your home, you just trade up or down depending on where you are and what the market is doing at the time.

Don't stuff it up as the credit agency, VIDA is watching you if you do!

You will probably spend more to get back into boating than you get from selling your boat now. What do you think you can invest in and make money on from the proceeds of a boat sale?

Cheers
Chimo

jclay1773
26-10-2013, 07:01 PM
I sold my tinny for $4,000 in 2010 and bought shares with that money and some other money I had saved. That $4,000 is now worth $15,000 and is about to be sold along with some other shares to buy an offshore boat. I've missed th little tinny but once I get the new boat I'm sure it will be worth it.

cuzzamundi
26-10-2013, 07:33 PM
Any tips for someone getting into shares, JClay? That's a nice turn around for you.

Sorry, don't mean to kijack your thread, Almako.

Cuzza

Jsmfun
26-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Yes sold my yalta recently to make sure we had big enough deposit for our house was looking at buying a cc 595 now buying a HH 560 offshore still a upgrade but have withdrawals reel bad not owning a boat

Chimo
27-10-2013, 06:13 AM
How much tax did / should you pay on your capital gain jclay1773? ( could have saved over the 3yrs instead, target 3.5k pa or $67 pw? with less risk and still have a boat?)

FisHard
27-10-2013, 07:34 AM
I reckon that the capital outlay you have in a boat, is nothing compared to the maintainence and upgrades you enviably invest in them! And as Chimo says, you always need to consider the tax angle of any investment gains.
Good luck with your decision! Remember, boats are a disease!

cormorant
27-10-2013, 09:46 AM
G'day guys and girls,

I would like to hear from people who have had experience selling their boats to use the money for investment for a while, and either succeeded and brought a bigger and better one or simply ended up buying another boat because you couldn't live without one.

Cheers
Al


No idea of your age but investment in education and trade skills always pays off as it always gets more expensive and you get less motivated as you get older. Try and do then via your employer and get them tax deductible so they are more affordable. Investing in your own business is also a great way to build a asset but many partnerships end in tears so always take advice on business structure and be a bit honest with yourself about the chance of long term relationship. Never lock yourself into anything serious without documentation , advice by solicitor and accountant you trust to tell it to you straight. Most people screw up with the wrong structure to start with.

Boats area luxury , often a status symbol and shouldn't be a financial burden ( did I just type that!!) and regardless of buy price they have a ongoing maintenance , insurance cost even if sitting in the shed. That said the mateship, mental health , fish ,hobby value and forced time to have recreation is something you can't really put a price on but you don't have to own a boat to do that. Can go with mates and just put in cash for fuel and a few extras rather than having the worry of ownership etc

With a small cheap boat that you know is reliable and in good maintenance the ongoing and running costs are small and compared with trying to find the same quality again in a couple of years time it is probably less hassle to keep it and " winterise" it.

Shares and investments - just be aware there are a million scumbags out there selling the new get rich schemes be it realestate , shares , options, currency ( the latest marketing masterpiece) gambling systems all which in general have a small opportunity for success unless you have the common sense and ability to realise the risk you are taking, fees and do the bloody hard yards learning the market. there is no free lunches. Throw up your alternative investment idea as nothing like 100 people on here of which someone on here will have been involved in that business sector or investment type currently or in their career or have been taken to the cleaners

Have I broken all the above suggestions and advice - yep and got away with mostly it but seriously could have seen me in serious problems a couple of times. Some very tough lessons learnt.::);D

jclay1773
27-10-2013, 10:07 AM
I won't give advice on shares as what works for me might not for others. Captain gains is a part of investing but should not stop you investing. And there are ways to minimise it. Yes saving is a good strategy but shares in the long run will always outperform. For the record, that $4,000 was put on supercheap which you might know owns bcf, rays outdoors, rebel, a Mart sports and a few others. Without investments I would never get the boat I want.

ric
27-10-2013, 12:19 PM
I won't give advice on shares as what works for me might not for others. Captain gains is a part of investing but should not stop you investing. And there are ways to minimise it. Yes saving is a good strategy but shares in the long run will always outperform. For the record, that $4,000 was put on supercheap which you might know owns bcf, rays outdoors, rebel, a Mart sports and a few others. Without investments I would never get the boat I want.
I'd be hoping that wasn't your only investment.

Why not pull the 11k out and leave your asset base to build again. Or even better, reinvest the 15k and use the income derived from your reinvestment to make your toy purchases

jclay1773
27-10-2013, 12:54 PM
What do you mean about only investment?
Supercheap will go but will keep a little invested in it as it is still on the up.

bannana
27-10-2013, 06:48 PM
I sold my tinny for $4,000 in 2010 and bought shares with that money and some other money I had saved. That $4,000 is now worth $15,000 and is about to be sold along with some other shares to buy an offshore boat. I've missed th little tinny but once I get the new boat I'm sure it will be worth it.

$4,000 over 3 years after tax = $15,000 Thats not bad going.

Maybe you should do this for a living. Thats over 55% return per annum (net) and I don't know too many people if any that has achieved this in this market. I suggest you leave your money in there because if you can keep that % going for another 5 years you would have $138 584. If you could leave it in and achieve these sort of returns for another ten years you would have in the vicinity of $1,280,375 for a small investment of $4000 over 13 years.

23 years total investment period = $ 109,290,704 00. Thats 109 Million!!!!!!

Now you can get one hell of a boat for that.

Now I'm not for one second doubting you (you have obviously hit the jackpot), but thought I should point out that the average Joe Blow has little to no chance of achieving these sort of returns on a consistent basis and therefor a more realistic return of 12.5% would be a good out come and this would equate to only $1075 less tax over three years on a $4000 investment plus dividends.

I just thought for anyone who thinks they can sell there boat and double, triple or quadruple that amount in a short amount of time is surely taking a risk and should have realistic expectations or could potentially walk away disappointed and regretting there decision.

snapperbasher
27-10-2013, 07:45 PM
To be fair Keith he did say that money and some other money he had.... Without disclosing how much he actually invested.... Although he also said that $4000 is now worth $15000...

soulfish
27-10-2013, 07:54 PM
$4,000 over 3 years after tax = $15,000 Thats not bad going.

Maybe you should do this for a living. Thats over 55% return per annum (net) and I don't know too many people if any that has achieved this in this market. I suggest you leave your money in there because if you can keep that % going for another 5 years you would have $138 584. If you could leave it in and achieve these sort of returns for another ten years you would have in the vicinity of $1,280,375 for a small investment of $4000 over 13 years.

23 years total investment period = $ 109,290,704 00. Thats 109 Million!!!!!!

Now you can get one hell of a boat for that.

Now I'm not for one second doubting you (you have obviously hit the jackpot), but thought I should point out that the average Joe Blow has little to no chance of achieving these sort of returns on a consistent basis and therefor a more realistic return of 12.5% would be a good out come and this would equate to only $1075 less tax over three years on a $4000 investment plus dividends.

I just thought for anyone who thinks they can sell there boat and double, triple or quadruple that amount in a short amount of time is surely taking a risk and should have realistic expectations or could potentially walk away disappointed and regretting there decision.


geez mate your better at maths then spelling....did you make tom run to the bottle'o for more coronas after I left? Imagine where you would be financialy if you sold GIDDY UP & bought shares in super cheap...I know where you would be mentally though ha

deckie
27-10-2013, 08:09 PM
Silly idea.
A boat IS an investment. In yourself.
If u ever need a few bux, sell the kids first.

nathank
27-10-2013, 08:11 PM
http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/Charts.aspx?asxCode=SUL&compare=comp_index&indicies=0&pma1=0&pma2=0&volumeInd=9&vma=0&TimeFrame=M4

good gains.. but hey, sometimes you can get lucky.. I bought some small cap mining stuff NML when it first listed and made 150% on it really quick (20c to 50c sold) a mate hung onto them and they are worth 4c today... I got lucky.. Unless you have heaps of money and understand or grasp portfolio theory or.. know how to buy singles and use put and calls as insurance its bloody tough to outplay the markets.
Buy a house, use the growth to borrow at good interest rates (if you have the capacity)

But to use the markets as a way to buy a boat.. You would want to know precisely what your doing..

Still_Dreamin
27-10-2013, 08:20 PM
Presumably you sell your boat for less than you bought it so straight away you have made a loss. So any future profit needs to cover this loss as well. For example my boat cost me 42k 18mths ago realistically I would get mid 30k if sold it. So if I invested that 35k it needs to make 7k before I am even. If I keep the boat then that 7k is an unrealised loss which doesn't matter

scuttlebutt
28-10-2013, 08:43 AM
The only thing easier than turning 4k into 15k on stocks is turning 15k into 4k. I've had stocks for a while and remember in the GFC when it was nothing to check the stocks and find I'd lost 8k in a day. At one point I was down 60k and remember thinking, "Well I should have just bought a decent boat with that". I came out of it all in front, but that was more through luck than good management. You need a pretty high tolerance to risk if you're going to make any decent money on stocks. Mentally it can be very challenging, especially if you're losing. Can be very satisfying, but only if you're winning!

PS: Once I was back in front I bought a decent boat. I still play the markets, but it taught me to live for enjoyment. No point dying rich.

Chimo
28-10-2013, 11:06 AM
The money section of the Courier Mail has provided some interesting material that perhaps needs to be considered if one is seriously contemplating selling a boat to invest to make money to buy a bigger boat. Good luck with this plan if you proceed appropriately and hopefully you are not too old or infirm to use it when and if it all works out.97345 The story in this case is that you if you invest $100k from selling your boat to eventually buy a bigger better boat if you stay in the market for 20 yrs the results will be as per the graph. However if you work the market the results are as shown based on how many of the "best" market days you miss over the 20yrs. Miss the 25 best days over the time and the result is a $6,177 increase and thats over 20yrs.

IMHO keep the boat and save for extras or to buy whatever :-[

Cheers
Chimo

Chimo
28-10-2013, 11:13 AM
Full article

97347

bannana
28-10-2013, 11:47 AM
geez mate your better at maths then spelling....did you make tom run to the bottle'o for more coronas after I left? Imagine where you would be financialy if you sold GIDDY UP & bought shares in super cheap...I know where you would be mentally though ha


I know where I would be if I invested Giddy Up into Super Cheap at those returns.... In a coffin 20 yrs earlier because i would retire and be at your house on the piss everyday.

juggernaut
28-10-2013, 11:56 AM
I used to be a share trader but that requires watching the market several times daily which is not always possible when working as well. I've now ceased share trading for this reason setup a self managed super fund and bought blue chip and spec mining shares through that so I can let time do its thing. Obviously monitoring is required but not at the same level as a share trader.

In my time I've discovered:

1. there are no get rich quick schemes - unless you want to gamble with your money;
2. time in the market is less risky than timing the market;
3. high return = high risk;
4. blue chip shares are generally the least risky and are more liquid.
5. buy low, sell high i.e. GFC and any other catastrophic world events - takes some balls though - but the market generally bounces back.
6. buy in June when the All Ords is generally at a low point as everyone is selling off any shares to crystalise any unrealised losses to offset previously realised gains. Sell later in the year when the market is at a higher point (like now).
7. Diversify.
8. Set a return that you are happy with and sell then you reach that point.

Note: the above does not constitute investment advice.

Would I sell a boat to invest in the share market...No. As when you want to buy another boat the market conditions may not be favorable at that time of the proposed sale of the shares.

cormorant
28-10-2013, 12:30 PM
There is no golden investment be it property or shares it is all about research risk and quality. A lot of people get it wrong and never say they did and some just never understand they lost money. tax changes, gearing ,finance availability and market changes affect everything and the economy and employment is a key factor
There are many structural things that changed both financially and socially in the last 60 years that made houses as a investment a sure winner but as the recent generation has found with spruikers out there promoting / advising it is all not a magic carpet ride to riches. many thing that have happened will never happen again to cause the demand and growth but that is not to say new factors won't come into play such as superannuation investment and OS investment is now causing influence in some sectors. . None of that is to say there are still not a whole lot of areas growing and will make very good returns but just like shares - every one isn't a winner.


http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/one-in-eight-home-sales-are-at-a-loss-20131008-2v5jn.html#ixzz2h7NLKy91



One out of every eight homes sold is fetching less than it cost.
It's a sobering thought for investors still affected by the delusion that house prices never fall.
The figures, from the RP Data Pain and Gain report released on Tuesday, are based on gross profits and losses, which exclude transaction costs and taxes.
They show that 12 per cent of homes sold in the three months ending June were sold for less than their purchase price.
Advertisement
Together, they incurred a total loss of $531 million.
The remaining 88 per cent beat their previous sale price by a total of $12.1 billion.
The numbers also illustrate what real estate agents like to remind us are the three most important features of a home: location, location, location.
The areas where homes are most likely to be sold at a loss are what RP Data refers to as "lifestyle regions".
Regional Queensland stood out with 27.5 per cent of sales made at a loss.
"The weakness in Queensland is mostly reflective of the conditions across the lifestyle markets such as the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and far north where the correction in home values has been more significant," RP Data said.
On the Gold Coast, 36.3 per cent of sales were at a loss, but the proportion was still high at 34.6 per cent in far north Queensland and 29.9 per cent on the Sunshine Coast, with other regions in Queensland not far behind.
The red ink affected apartments more than free-standing houses.
In Wide Bay Burnett, the Sunshine Coast, Mackay and the Gold Coast, losses made up more than a third of apartment sales, while in northern and far north Queensland the proportion rose to around a half.
But it's not all so dire for property owners.
Loss-making sales made up only 5.0 per cent of transactions in Perth, 6.2 per cent in both Sydney and Canberra, and 8.1 per cent in Melbourne.
And the figures are a reminder that real estate investors might be better to focus on the long term rather than trying to turn a quick profit.
RP Data said the proportion of loss-making sales for homes bought before 2008 was only 7.2 per cent, compared with 22.2 per cent for homes bought from 2008 - the year the global crisis erupted - onward.
To further illustrate the point, RP Data said length of ownership ahead of loss-making sales averaged only five years.
In contrast, the time between purchase and resale for all profit-making sales averaged 9.6 years, 15.7 years for homes sold for at least twice their purchase price.
AAP

Chimo
28-10-2013, 01:01 PM
Corm

If you really want to be sure you will loose $s just buy off the plan!

Better off with a boat and a working wife (partner to be correct) IMHO

juggernaut
28-10-2013, 01:25 PM
Corm

If you really want to be sure you will loose $s just buy off the plan!



Or buy a house/apartment in QLD judging by the above article!

Chimo
28-10-2013, 02:03 PM
J/N IMHE Specifically depends when you bought and when you sold......................

Camhawk88
28-10-2013, 03:00 PM
PS: Once I was back in front I bought a decent boat. I still play the markets, but it taught me to live for enjoyment. No point dying rich.

Thats the crux of the argument for me. Id rather be 10k, 20k, 50k poorer in 5 years time than spending 5 years of staring out the wide blue yonder on glass outs and not being able to enjoy it.

That aint livin Barry.

jclay1773
28-10-2013, 06:45 PM
I think a few of you are getting mixed up with investing and quick rich schemes. Short selling shares or buying and quickly selling houses is a dangerous game. Someone earlier listed some very good points. My portfolio is a mix of high to low risk shares. I don't have many high but I have a few. In the long run shares will make a profit. Have a look at suncorp, anz, Telstra (just to name a few) over the past 4 yrs. Very nice gains.

So to answer the original question, yes you can if you are patience.

Almako
28-10-2013, 08:03 PM
Great to read all of your experiences and opinions guys.
A few things I've read ring home and mostly comments around selling now would mean a $25-$30k loss (if I got what I thought it was worth of course). Which is a huge loss and not really a loss whilst I still own it, I.E I don't have to go back out and spend more money unless upgrading.

The money if sold would go towards property to build a specie / business start up once I finish my carpentry apprenticeship (old man apprenticeship I'm 39) and builders licence. I have a while to deliberate.

robsue
29-10-2013, 08:57 AM
personally I got into shares in the gfc, the more they dropped in price the more I borrowed, I am only in 3 big banks and mqg
I have set myself up to retire 4 1/2 years early and I only work 15 hours a week plus travel now
I took out interest only loans and earn 2 1/2 times the interest now in dividends and franking, which is reinvested, before any increase in share prices
for those unaware after owning shares for more than 12 months, you only pay tax on 50% of gains when selling

having said all the above, if you get into shares now, be prepared for the long term, ie 5-7 year investment, as the large gains will now slow right down, BUT if you buy shares with borrowed money, and buy shares with good dividends like banks, you can pay interest repayment, claim it on tax and still be in front without share price moving

juggernaut
29-10-2013, 10:09 AM
A boat IS an investment.

My brother and I sold our commercial cray boat for a 35% profit in 3 years (bought $60,000 in 2002 sold $81,000 in 2005).
Lucky...who knows...but we sold it in the midst of the SARS virus epidemic which seriously affected the price of crays...and you would have thought the price of boats.

jmwarner
29-10-2013, 02:22 PM
There's a lot of risk investing epically in green chip companies but there is also a lot of gain if you can pick it. There's an interesting read about a company called maverick drilling and exploration and a perfect example of what can happen.

Summarizing; they were an exploration company that one decided they were going to keep a well they found and their stock price went from $0.40 to $1.53 and i was kicking myself almost a 300% increase!!! :furious2: Because i had missed it I stopped following them and a while later something happened and now they are down to $0.55 (I never actually read into why). So depending on when you bought you could have mad a little or a lot or lost a little or a lot.

You also have to look if it is worth putting your money in a blue chip and if you will make much off the dividends then sell the capital when you are ready. You wont get as big of return but is a lot safer.

The best advice I have been given is know when to cut your losses and accept it. Like my old man says " You've got gangrene in your finger. Do you chop the 1 finger off or or risk your entire arm?"


Some I have been watching lately

Wesfarmers (WES.AX) - Interesting comparison in the last 1yr and 6months
Resmed (RMD.AX) - last 2 years and the last week
CSL ltd.(CSL.AX) - last 2 years is amazing
Ansell (ANN.AX) - last 2 years again
Flight center (FLT.AX) - Who thought travel would be so big
Starbucks (SBUX) - last month
Zynga (ZNGA) - look at the last 2 years, The games they made used to be all over Facebook
Billabong (BBG.AX) - Uncle almost bought these when they were at $0.19 6 months later $0.60

Only problem with this is you have to have money to make money and being young is a big problem I face :wut: