Building a Sailfish S8 - Radar advice needed

[vinvaite]

I recently ordered a new Sailfish S8 Alloy Cat. To say i am stoked would be an understatement. It will be quite customised and tailored for Game and Kingy Fishing. Having said that i am relatively inexperienced and have only owned (half) a boat for about a year now. However in that time we've done about 500hrs; we've got into downrigging for kings off Sydney and JB with moderate success. Lately we have tried YFT fishing and have bagged a few 40~70kg fish off Sydney and JB, suffice to say we are seriously hooked..

My question relates to RADAR options. The new boat will cost the best part of $160k and i do not want to compromise potential results for the sake of a few grand considering the entire expense. Now i have discovered (albeit via limited experience) that finding bird action almost always correlates with extra hookups for obvious reasons. Research online suggests that detecting bird action via radar is going to be impacted by conditions (very hit and miss). But let's assume for a moment we have relativeily calm/flat conditions for the sake of the argument. Granted this may only be 10~20% of the time (if that).

What radar setup would you go with if you wanted to detect bird action beyond eyesight in such conditions considering the boat? Keep in mind the circumstances; a 7m~8m Alloy Cat, height of the radar (probably about 3m to 3.5m off water level)

Whadayareckon?

Interested in thoughts of those with experience using modern radar options, within the context of the above requirements. Another aspect is we sometimes leave port in the black of night, if radar can give me confidence about what's in front out of sight, that would help too. ie. it's not just about finding birds, so i will probably get some system regardless.

I've read a few articles online about USA guys using radar effectively to target tuna, so i was surprised when a few people have told me outright they think it's a waste of money. Obviously i do not want to waste money, but if such a tool can make even 1 in 10 days a success when they would otherwise not be then to my mind it's potentially worth it.

Thanks guys.

[Nicko_Cairns]

I don't have any experience with Radar but there' s a few good posts on this site about it so I recommend having a search and read. When I get a bigger offshore boat I'll be going something like the small Garmin radar but mainly for avoiding other boats at night, especially spot-stealers that sneak in with their lights off.

[vinvaite]

Thanks for that, yes had a good read, some great info. If anyone has experience with respect to the newer radar options specifically in relation to detecting working birds, i would love to hear about that too, cheers

[ScottB]

I have heard a lot of good things about the broadband (Simrad) radar and it's ability to pick up small objects, but I'm not sure specifically about it's ability to pick up birds.

One thing that I can tell you for sure is that for the more traditional digital radars from the likes of Raymarine etc, you won't get away with a dome. To get the kind of definition that you need, it will have to be an open array, and a powerful one. Then there is this issue that on rougher days, with all of the movement associated with a small boat, you will get a lot of sea clutter which will be very difficult to distinguish from something like working birds. You will also need height to get the distance you want, but this will also make the movement/sea clutter worse, a vicious cycle!

I have a dome on my boat, and use it for navigation purposes (Good for dodging the rain squalls as well!) and it is great for these purposes but it will never pick out a bird... From the navigational aspect I would highly recommend it. We were leaving port in the dark early one morning with a boat in front of us, they turned around so they were heading back at me, then turned off their nav lights (pitch black!!) it was nice to be able to glance down and see where they were. But keep in mind that it won't pick up objects like buoys in the water etc.

Regards

Scott

[rexaway123]

Back in black u should maybe have good point of view here?

[Back In Black]

Not sure if I should get involved.

Every time I do I seem to get bitten.

Tony

[vinvaite]

Tony perhaps just PM me if you have some advice. Totally understand if you would rather not.

[Back In Black]

Just taking the piss. I'm always ready for a scrap!!

I've got a Garmin of some sort?? Don't have a clue what to do with it, never really played with it that much, but it looks smoking hot on top of my boat!!

Tony

[vinvaite]

We ended up going with a complete Simrad setup with latest broadband radar. Some pics of the Sailfish progress attached...

[Back In Black]

We ended up going with a complete Simrad setup with latest broadband radar. Some pics of the Sailfish progress attached...

Very shiny!!

Tony

[Gon Fishun]

We ended up going with a complete Simrad setup with latest broadband radar. Some pics of the Sailfish progress attached...

WOW, a gangway to the helipad.



just envious.

[Spaniard_King]

Whats goin on the back of it??

[Knotpretty]

Don't forget to put the bungs in. KP

[vinvaite]

Whats goin on the back of it??



Cats look a little odd without motors fitted up

[rat_catcher]

We ended up going with a complete Simrad setup with latest broadband radar.

I presume you chose the 4G radar. Excellent choice for the close-in navigation purposes, but won't do much in the longer ranges and for birds. What displays did you get? NSE, NSS, NSO? My old man has the NSE12 on his boat and on my next boat I am seriously considering all Simrad gear too, but haven't ruled out Furuno. For birds you need one of the big open array Furuno radars.

[vinvaite]

I presume you chose the 4G radar. Excellent choice for the close-in navigation purposes, but won't do much in the longer ranges and for birds. What displays did you get? NSE, NSS, NSO? My old man has the NSE12 on his boat and on my next boat I am seriously considering all Simrad gear too, but haven't ruled out Furuno. For birds you need one of the big open array Furuno radars.



Yes we ended up with 4G, twin NSS12's. Autopilot, gofree wifi, etc


After consulting a few trailerboat game fishos about radar/bird detection, I came to the conclusion that unless conditions are just right it will be mostly hit and miss. Given where I fish, those sort of conditions will be about 5% of the time at sea so I mostly wrote off the idea. I still want radar for a few other reasons (navigation assistance at night, keeping track of certain boats out wide..) I did buy some gyro stabilised binoculars tho, which I have used on a couple of trips to find birds, which are pretty good.

[rat_catcher]

Yes we ended up with 4G, twin NSS12's. Autopilot, gofree wifi, etc

Very nice setup.


I still want radar for a few other reasons (navigation assistance at night, keeping track of certain boats out wide..)

The Simrad 4G will be excellent for this purpose. Enjoy. You will have a nice rig when it is all finished.

[vinvaite]

Fantastic progress in the last couple of weeks, boat is out of the paint shop and being fitted up, delivery next week. Sailfish folks attention to detail is amazing.

[Still_Dreamin]

Nice boat mate, very envious

[rat_catcher]

Yes very nice. Keep the pics coming.

[Volvo]

8-) Awsome lookin Rig there..

[stevemid]

Beauty. Well done.
Steve

[feral cat]

Bloody awesome rig you have there mate.
Im currently running a 4kw simrad digital radar with nss12,rc42 compass,go free and also gs 25 antanae.(antanae for better satellite pickup)
Definatly picks birds up on a smooth day within a couple km's.
Once it gets choppy you find yourself constantly adjusting sea clutter and second guessing yourself.
Crossing wide bay bar i can pick up all white water and watch sets on screen as they roll through which makes night crossings much easier.
Awesome for tracking rain and squalls with ease.
I mainly use it for bar crossings and travelling at night offshore and inshore. Definately a confident booster at night in the pitch black.
I have also picked up spanner crab floats offshore.
Cheers
Justin

[vinvaite]

Teaser pic i got today, custom deck layout for those 100's of hours trolling and downrigging :)

[rat_catcher]

Those seats will be popular!

[Still_Dreamin]

Geez that is going to be a sweet fishing machine

[vinvaite]

Hey guys

Well what a day, we picked up the boat this morning, delivered by Gav and Ash from Webbe Marine in Sydney. Top blokes. They took me through all the features of the Sailfish from top to bottom, and on the water too. The boat is simply flawless. I can't believe the attention to detail the sailfish blokes put into this product. Cudos to the production staff; looks like it came out of a perfect boat building machine. I cant wait to get into some serious fishing with my mates and the kids.


The boat is enormous - we went for the S8 over the S7, that extra length really makes a difference. I will report more on the features and options we went with on the S8 - as we get it on the water in the coming weeks, and hopefully catch and report on fish caught

[Smithy]

Only coming into this late and missed the boat so to speak but you will really need open array radars to spot birds. 72Nm open array Furuno on the top of the flybridge of a game boat is the ultimate! Bringing a boat back south from Cairns we were picking up birds a couple of miles away before visually seeing working longtails coming down through the Whitsundays. Have used a modern Lowrance radar and in the chop it was hopeless compared to commercial stuff like Furuno. The little 12mile Furunos do a good job. Certainly dodged a few storms and rain clouds with them and they pick up boats fine. Took a Cabo to Mackay last year that had a 36Nm or 48Nm open array and still couldn't get it dialed in to pick up birds successfully. You need everything working in your favour to do that.

[vinvaite]

I guess an update is in order. I've had the boat for about 18 months, and have done just over 800hrs and about 6000nm. We've caught a lot of fish (kingies/tuna/marlin). The boat has been great with no major issues whatsoever. Getting transducer placement right probably the biggest bugbear. Regarding the radar, yes it's been good for spotting boats / markers etc at night, and for gauging the size of incoming storms, however completely useless for spotting birds in Sydney chop. Any questions about the Sailfish please ask, cheers.

[gofishin]

Great setup there, and would certainly provide some enjoyment out there on the blue.

PS. Is this your No. 1 boat or No. 2 :). (Re your other post with D4 problems in the Luhrs). Either way great boat, and half your luck :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vinvaite]

Sailfish is definitely my No.1 boat. Thought i would try the big boat thing-- big mistake. Glad i still have the trailerboat, it's been 100% reliable. We've been as far as 100km out to sea, i totally trust it will get us home every time.

[feral cat]

I guess an update is in order. I've had the boat for about 18 months, and have done just over 800hrs and about 6000nm. We've caught a lot of fish (kingies/tuna/marlin). The boat has been great with no major issues whatsoever. Getting transducer placement right probably the biggest bugbear. Regarding the radar, yes it's been good for spotting boats / markers etc at night, and for gauging the size of incoming storms, however completely useless for spotting birds in Sydney chop. Any questions about the Sailfish please ask, cheers.


I allways wondered the big price difference between 4G and the 4KW HD digital. No dramas what so ever pinging birds weather there flying or sitting on the water with the HD 4KW system from a few km's away. Have tracked single birds flying a fair distance away as well. Awesome looking sailfish mate.

[vinvaite]

I allways wondered the big price difference between 4G and the 4KW HD digital. No dramas what so ever pinging birds weather there flying or sitting on the water with the HD 4KW system from a few km's away. Have tracked single birds flying a fair distance away as well. Awesome looking sailfish mate.

Interesting, thanks. Do you think the 4KW HD digital would work in a small trailerboat? Average conditions off Sydney are 1.5m about 8s swell duration or worse.

[koastal]

Ultimate trailer boat - I cant see what hp it is powered with.
Very jealous !!

[Spaniard_King]

Ultimate trailer boat - I cant see what hp it is powered with.
Very jealous !!
150's I would say there not v6's

[vinvaite]

135 hondas - top speed is 38kts in smooth waters

the average day off Sydney for me is about 100nm round trip-- consisting of about an hours run out, 6-8hrs trolling and a one hour run back home. It usually burns about 2L/nm on average for such a trip, so for that 100nm i will put 100L in each tank = 200L for the day. Very happy with that, most of my mates with singles will burn around the same.

[Heliduck]

I guess an update is in order. I've had the boat for about 18 months, and have done just over 800hrs and about 6000nm. We've caught a lot of fish (kingies/tuna/marlin). The boat has been great with no major issues whatsoever. Getting transducer placement right probably the biggest bugbear. Regarding the radar, yes it's been good for spotting boats / markers etc at night, and for gauging the size of incoming storms, however completely useless for spotting birds in Sydney chop. Any questions about the Sailfish please ask, cheers.

Reviving an old thread here, I'll be visiting Webbe marine in a few weeks to start the S8 process & appreciate the info from your build. Can you elaborate on your comment re the transducer placement being the greatest bugbear? I get very frustrated with top of the shelf electronics that don't provide what I need due to transducer placement/function & any tips you could provide to save me some heartache would be appreciated.

[ranmar850]

I've used open array Furuno and Koden radars commercially, extensively. 10kw and 25 kw sets. I'd be amazed if you could reliably pick up birds on one. On exceptionally calm days,we could sometimes see our 8" polystyrene floats on the surface BVR, but that was very rare. All sorts of surface conditions will work against you-even areas of different temps/humidity across slight wind changes on glass-off days will give you a confusing return. Any wind around, surface clutter will take up the screen. Swell also, bit of wind and a big swell will show as lines across the screen.

[vinvaite]

I've used open array Furuno and Koden radars commercially, extensively. 10kw and 25 kw sets. I'd be amazed if you could reliably pick up birds on one. On exceptionally calm days,we could sometimes see our 8" polystyrene floats on the surface BVR, but that was very rare. All sorts of surface conditions will work against you-even areas of different temps/humidity across slight wind changes on glass-off days will give you a confusing return. Any wind around, surface clutter will take up the screen. Swell also, bit of wind and a big swell will show as lines across the screen.

Totally agree. Radar in a trailerboat off the east coast in average sloppy conditions offshore.. forget it.

[vinvaite]

Reviving an old thread here, I'll be visiting Webbe marine in a few weeks to start the S8 process & appreciate the info from your build. Can you elaborate on your comment re the transducer placement being the greatest bugbear? I get very frustrated with top of the shelf electronics that don't provide what I need due to transducer placement/function & any tips you could provide to save me some heartache would be appreciated.

A lot has changed with sailfish in this respect-- whilst they simply refused to do through-hull for me.. they are now offering it as an option. I know a couple of people that have gone with this option from sailfish. Send me a PM for details.

Good on sailfish to meet the market in what they want.

What pisses me off are boat builders who want to divorce themselves from the fact their fishing boats need to mark fish.

[Back In Black]

A lot has changed with sailfish in this respect-- whilst they simply refused to do through-hull for me.. they are now offering it as an option. I know a couple of people that have gone with this option from sailfish. Send me a PM for details.

Good on sailfish to meet the market in what they want.

What pisses me off are boat builders who want to divorce themselves from the fact their fishing boats need to mark fish.

Can they retrofit one?? never been satisfied with my readings above 15 knots & it would be great to rectify

[vinvaite]

Can they retrofit one?? never been satisfied with my readings above 15 knots & it would be great to rectify

PM me.

warrants a discussion

[Back In Black]

PM me.

warrants a discussion

PM sent,

Tony