Crabbing. Can kids have 4 pots as well ?

[MrNanks]

Hi.
Probably a basic and fairly stupid question for some.
I have always thought that even having a kid in the boat with you while crabbing meant that you still can only have your 4 pots ( per adult ).
Is that correct? I have never included them in my crab pot count but wonder if I can.
I have looked up the fishing rules but cant see anything clearing up my question.
Can any of you clued up fishos please let me know.

Its the missus 40th birthday tomorrow and she loves crabs so I thought today is the day to put the pots out.

Cheers

[cobiaman]

4 pots per person, no age restriction

[Benben86]

As far as i know kids who can use the equipment can have their own pots and bag limit. There is no age limits

[MrNanks]

Thanks Cobiaman.

[lifestyle]

from what I can gather they must be able to lift the pot by them self . For example a 6 month old baby isnt able to have 4 pots. Thats the way i do it.

[timddo]

Actually, that is a myth, if you a person your allowed 4.

[kingcray]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?194918-That-time-again

there is a few posts in there regarding your question

[robsue]

timddo is correct the way I read the regulations, 4 per person, no age limit.....they removed the regulation where a person had to be able to use the gear

[MrNanks]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?194918-That-time-again

there is a few posts in there regarding your question
Thanks Kingcray,

I did see the start of the tread ( back then )and it and many other crabbing pictures got me planning my crabbing.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Benben86]

I emailed daff regarding this and this is the response I received...
"In response to your enquiry I wish to advise that a child of 6 months would not be elegible to have a bag limit or pots allocated to them. In order for a child to have a bag limit and allocation of pots they would have to be able to exhibit their capabality of operating the pots independently."
Cheers

[cobiaman]

I emailed daff regarding this and this is the response I received...
"In response to your enquiry I wish to advise that a child of 6 months would not be elegible to have a bag limit or pots allocated to them. In order for a child to have a bag limit and allocation of pots they would have to be able to exhibit their capabality of operating the pots independently."
Cheers

Sounds like they arent up to date with their rule changes....

[Benben86]

Well I'm going by the response I received from daff until its proven incorrect.

[Bull]

The age limit has been removed. Its another question if you want your 6 month old baby out in your tinny though.

Cheers Brett

[Benben86]

Yeah it says,
"Note: The age limit for the recreational USE OF crab apparatus has been removed."
A baby can not USE a crab pot.

[Noelm]

typical of Gov Departments, nothing is easy to understand, without a couple of Barristers and a court room, who knows for sure if a baby qualifies to have traps?

[Aussie123]

typical of Gov Departments, nothing is easy to understand, without a couple of Barristers and a court room, who knows for sure if a baby qualifies to have traps?

The law is very simple and easy to understand.
No age limit on the gear but the child must be capable of setting and pulling the gear on their own.
What makes the law easy to understand is the fact it is illegal to set,interfere or pull any fishing apparatus which DOES NOT belong to you when in the water (your name on the tags).
That includes any gear set in a childs name with that childs details on the tags and floats even though you may technically own the traps.

[solemandownunder]

Yeah it says,
"Note: The age limit for the recreational USE OF crab apparatus has been removed."
A baby can not USE a crab pot.

Think the clue may be in the actually wording....

1: USE.....ie yoose
2: USE.....ie: yooze

SO....if you read it in those terms....YOOUSE of.....then there is no age limit for the yoose of a crabpot....whether in fact they can YOOZE it themselves seems to have gone by the wayside.

Jus the way I sees it....what do u guys think ::)

Cheers, Ray.

[Gon Fishun]

Think the clue may be in the actually wording....

1: USE.....ie yoose
2: USE.....ie: yooze

SO....if you read it in those terms....YOOUSE of.....then there is no age limit for the yoose of a crabpot....whether in fact they can YOOZE it themselves seems to have gone by the wayside.

Jus the way I sees it....what do u guys think ::)

Cheers, Ray.

Have you got some work to do??? :whip:

[solemandownunder]

Been & Done ;D....playtime now :D

[Noelm]

The law is very simple and easy to understand.
No age limit on the gear but the child must be capable of setting and pulling the gear on their own..

So then, that part is laid out plain and simple? I sure don't se it on the attached law change that was posted.

[Aussie123]

So then, that part is laid out plain and simple? I sure don't se it on the attached law change that was posted.

Fisheries law clearly states that every fisher must have their own name and address details on their legal limit of 4 traps.
It also states that you cannot touch or tamper with fishing aparatus that belongs to any other person or business therefore that includes any traps that you may sneakily uses under a childs name so any gear in the name of a child must be pulled only by that child.
It then becomes pretty obvious if the child is too small to pull crab pots.

[TREVELLY]

I think you are really not phrasing the question right and if you did so then the answer would be self evident.

Let me help here:-

"Should I endorse my children getting the crabs?"

[bennykenny]

how many pots does one need anyway, i assume if you had a 6 month old in the boat that there would be yourself and partner to look after your 6 month old when you are droping baiting and pulling pots, so 8 pots already, do you need another 4 or more? or just some lessons in crabbing?

[robsue]

Fisheries law clearly states that every fisher must have their own name and address details on their legal limit of 4 traps.
It also states that you cannot touch or tamper with fishing aparatus that belongs to any other person or business therefore that includes any traps that you may sneakily uses under a childs name so any gear in the name of a child must be pulled only by that child.
It then becomes pretty obvious if the child is too small to pull crab pots.

actually I have asked fisheries this question, you may have 8 pots in your name, as long as 2 people on board at the time you are using 8 pots, in other words, you may take a relative/friend out crabbing without changing names on 4 of the pots

[Bull]

actually I have asked fisheries this question, you may have 8 pots in your name, as long as 2 people on board at the time you are using 8 pots, in other words, you may take a relative/friend out crabbing without changing names on 4 of the pots

I have read the same thing somewhere

[Noelm]

so... a dozen responses, and a lot of different interpretations, "you can", "you can't", "I read somewhere", "I have asked fisheries" I still maintain you need to read any rules a dozen times to try to fully understand what could be CLEARLY stated in a few simple words. Laws should be yes or no!

[BLOOEY]

robsue is right you are allowed as many pots as you like in your name. I also rang fisheries about this. Ben

[Horse]

I checked this out last year and reported it. You can only count the child if they are old enough to operate (use) the pot. There is no set age but you would be pushing it to be counting your toddler. The name info is to identify the pots ownership. As long as the owner is on board he can allocate pots to others onboard for their use

[rosco1974]

not sure bout you fellas but a 6 month old baby is a person isn't it..all be it that it cannot do bugger all but it still is a person,it does not say anywhere about being able to service the pot..another instant would be taking a 100 yr old out crabbin doubt they would be able to service a pot either neither would a handicapped person...so unless I am wrong a baby is still a person and recon you would win in court on this matter...I personally would worry bout taking 4 pots for a baby/toddler but I do ok on getting a feed of crabs...each to there own its just my opinion

[timddo]

I agree with rosco.

1 person = 4 pots

I bet half the crabbers on ausfish will not touch a live mud crab.

[Benben86]

Well you all can do whatever you want. You have seen what daff have to say, so argue the point with fisheries when you get done

[Tickleish]

I taught my 3 month old to work the pots, so surely a 6 month old can do it....

[WalrusLike]

This now explains why so many pots are put in stupid spots in channels....

its those bloody 3mth olds and their selfish thinking. :)


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[rosco1974]

ben I would happily argue the point with the fisheries and further if I had too..i put it to you this way since you seem to think this is wrong...at what age is it when you become a person....me personally I think when you are born you become a living person...I must be wrong...don't there rules and regulations state 4 pots per person....I really cannot see how they could win in a court of law...they would have to prove that the 6 month old or whatever age isn't a person...does it state they have to know how to service the pot. no..I still havnt found anything that says that.. and mind you this does not affect me as all my people are teenages or older...

[Muddy Toes]

Crab pots to an anthropology thesis.......

[Triple]

My comments still stand..

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?182281-Crab-pot-limit&highlight=crab+limit

And

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?186703-Crab-pot-and-kids&highlight=Crab+pots+kids

And

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?190806-Crab-pots-and-Kids/page2&highlight=Crab+pots+kids

[Horse]

I suggest a few of you should contact fisheries to seek clarification as I did. The response from them is the person must be old enough to use the apparatus. The same interpretation applies to the number of lines you have and bag limit allocations

[Triple]

And where in the legislation did they base this advice on?

[WalrusLike]

I don't know what's right or wrong here, but I do know life is too short to be tangling with the bureaucracy.

If they are wrong about the law it doesn't stop them writing a ticket, and then the-burden-of-grief is on you. Just saying.... :)


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[cobiaman]

Nowhere in that legislation does it say that they have to be capable of doing everything themselves.

Does that mean if you only have 1 hand that you arent allowed to crab? Sounds like a legal battle they cant possibly win....

[dogsbody]

2 blokes in a tinny, 8 pots. Going by some here the deckie can get done for tampering with pots cause ya never see the driver swap possies.

Chances of seein fisheries are slim anyway, roll ya dice take ya chances if ya ever have a new born on a boat.


Dave

[MrNanks]

Anyway, now that the answer is still unclear.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and input.
I put my 8 pots out this evening.
I took my 13 year old out so I am in the clear. Fingers crossed.

[Aussie123]

The biggest problem with fisheries is the inconsistency that you get depending on whom you talk to.
You can ring them 3 times and talk to 3 different people and you can often get 3 different answers.
A bunch of us have had discussions with them over other issues of photographing regulated fish caught out of season and in closed waters and we all got different answers.
Same went for targeting sharks over 1.5m in length,we all asked fisheries can we target them and we all got very different answers back.
At the end of the day,what we read in the glossy pamphlets and on the fisheries website is just a basic laymans terms for the law.
The actual written laws are very in-depth and complicated and they are the ones you will face by their lawyers if and when you go to court.
If anyone wants to read the actual laws download the Fisheries Regulations Acts,there is 2 documents that need to be read together to get a full understanding of what you can or cannot do.
Those 2 documents cover everything that you need to know and will answer many of these questions that you see pop up from time to time.

[sandbankmagnet]

I've been out with my daughter when she was 7 or 8 pulling pots for mud crabs. We had a cop on a jet ski come up ask how many pots we had and where are they. I said we had 7 for the 2 of us and pointed to where they were. He was happy enough and went on his way.
Did I let my daughter pull the pots and handle the mud crabs? no way! Life or death she may have worked it out though, but who knows. But some guys I take crabbing that are fully functional don't want to touch muddies either. They pull the pot for me and then chuck it down my end of the boat if there's anything in it. So how do you determine who can work a pot?

[MrNanks]

Well after putting the 8 pots out near Redland Bay over last night and checked twice , today we know only own 6 new pots and caught 65 female or undersized males. We kept our pots 100-150m away from a pro's pots and I have a good suspicion he gave me all his rubbish and I may have lost my keepers. I normally get 1 keeper out of 10 throwbacks so it is very sus. The arvo check had so many small males. That puts a whole new meaning to shared farming. I have never touched anyone elses pots and I would expect someone earning a living from crabbing would do the same. My 13 year old who doesn't like eating muddies was fuming because he also could see what was going on. getting him up at 5 am to check them this morning didn't help.
In total I spent $30 on bait (chicken and whole mullet) about $15 bucks on fuel, about $40 on lost pots and in total I have 1 very unlucky sandcrab to eat. I think I am giving up on chasing muddies and going to chase sandies and flick plastics within eye sight.

[Muddy Toes]

A little off topic but if the pro in question crabs the southern bay down to the mouth of the Logan and has a fleet of poly boats with etechs on the back........it's not him or anyone he employs.

I've crabbed near that guy for near on a decade and had nothing but a friendly wave, crabbing advice at the ramp and nothing but a good old fashioned chat with him and his boys when I see them .

Im not saying that he particularly likes being crabbed next to but he and his boy's aren't the rogue pros around you hear of.

[MrNanks]

I know exactly who you mean Muddy Toes. Just down the road from the Reddy Bay Hotel.
yep , I would say that I have had similar conversations. Not sure which pro was there but his pots were a lot closer to mine when we picked them up. My neighbour over the road has seen a pro right on top of his pots and knows they were opened because the way he straps his pots shut. But cant prove a thing. Anyway , it was a crap day crabbing and probably wont go back there.

[Muddy Toes]

That be him Mr Nanks! Our friendly local pro on Pitt st.......

It's getting very argie bargie down that Southern end since the area around Pannikin island was green zoned, it stopped me chasing muddies in the small block of good crabbing real estate we now have left. I'll either take the risk of thieves down around the pin or somewhere North of Peel for sandies......
Well that's Saturday's plan anyway and it's all weather dependant.........dependant on whether I can be assed or not.

[MrNanks]

east of Pannikin it was. I am going with your B plan and sandies north of Peel.
Since I am on a roll with my 1 sandcrab. LOL
Good luck..
PS you have a cracking looking boat. One day I would like to bring one over too.

[Muddy Toes]

Thank you sir.
If/when you do please don't hesitate in coming around for a chat about importing a boat.

I'll let you know how I go on Saturday mate............hopefully we can get that pot working overtime for you this summer!

[gruntahunta]

Funny how a pro can get accused of taking legal muddies from someone's pots and replacing the females and undersized males without being seen, just because he had his pots set there!

Just because you haven't got a legal crab in your pot does not mean it has been tampered with. I find it very hard to believe someone would put their hand in and just grab the legal crab, then put all their non keepers from their pots into someone else's. Just saying.

On the subject of what age can one crab at. A person is classified as a person before they are actually born, I believe if a fetus is 20 weeks old and dies he/ she has to have a funeral by law. I know this is stupid but a pregnant lady may be able to have 8 pots, if that is how the law is to be interpreted....there is always loop holes in every legislation or should I say there are always different interpretations that you can get done for.lol.

[MrNanks]

Just because you haven't got a legal crab in your pot does not mean it has been tampered with. I find it very hard to believe someone would put their hand in and just grab the legal crab, then put all their non keepers from their pots into someone else's. Just saying.
Not as hard to believe for me that we got 65 out out 65 muddies that were illegal to keep....Just saying.

[Horse]

Hopefully the response below from DAFF explains the current position. This interpretation is what I was given previously

CALL DETAILS:
Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Centre of DAFF.
In order for a child to have their own bag limits and ownership of crab pots
they would have to be shown to be capable of using this equipment independently.
Therefore, as a 3 month old child would not have the physical capability of
performing this task, he or she would not be able to have their own pots and bag
limits.

As you have requested direction to legislation on this matter your enquiry has
been referred to the District Manager of the Queensland Boating and Fishing
Patrol at Pinkenba to advise.

If you wish to follow up on this enquiry please quote reference number: 1036739
.


Customer Service Centre
GPO Box 46
Brisbane Qld 4001

Ph: 13 25 23 (Qld) or 07 3404 6999
Fx: 07 3404 6900
Email: callweb@daff.qld.gov.au (callweb@daff.qld.gov.au)


---------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: DAFF [mailto:web@daff.qld.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013 8:12 AM
To: BIC (Web) Email
Subject: DAFF website: Enquiry and feedback - Helen

[Triple]

And did you get a response from the district manager? I'm guessing no, cause they just publicly discriminated against all physically handicapped and unable bodied people.

Love to see where the legislation states that elderly and handicapped can't do it with assistance...

Also means everyone of you blokes that make the deckie pull ALL the pots better start doing your own ::)

[Bull]

That is disappointing!!
I like taking my 2 boys 7 and 9 crabbing but I don't think I would be ready to let them get crabs out of the pots and tie them yet. My dad loves going as well but with his emphysema he gets knocked up these days pulling the pots up so I guess he cant go either.

[Horse]

And did you get a response from the district manager? I'm guessing no, cause they just publicly discriminated against all physically handicapped and unable bodied people.

Love to see where the legislation states that elderly and handicapped can't do it with assistance...

Also means everyone of you blokes that make the deckie pull ALL the pots better start doing your own ::)

I just got a call from the office of the District Manager. The current interpretation works around the legislation where it states:-


FISHERIES REGULATION 2008 - SECT 188

188 Possessing or using crab apparatus

(1) A recreational fisher—

(a) must not possess or use more than a total of 4 items of crab apparatus in any waters

I can't see anywhere that says they cannot be assisted. Their main argument against an infant being counted is that a magistrate would not consider a baby to be a recreational fisher. The magistrate would also find that a"reasonable person" would not consider a baby to be a recreational fisher.

We are not talking about the number of persons on board we are looking at those considered to be recreational fishers. There are still a lot of grey areas in the legislation and if any child is participating in the activity then I would hope they are in the clear. I would imagine the same would apply to the case of elderly or handicapped being assisted in their activities

[WalrusLike]

Yeah common sense should prevail. If your five year old is helping pull the pots (let's call what five years old do as 'helping') then they are recreational fishers surely?

But if you have a two year old helping then your definitely skirting the grey area.



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[Gazza]

IT'S 4 per person .....plain 'n simple.

Think it through , later RecFisho kids will have to be able to bait & tie/rig own lines.
Landing Net & Gaff skills mandatory....or be Banned?? >:(

Imo... some 'Parents' may have to rethink parenting values. LOL

P.S. ..... WHEN R We allowed to .....
Crab In GreenZones !!!!

[one pot , one bait , ONE float] ;D

[netmaker]

considering the general slap on the wrist type penalties dealt out by the courts to those doing the wrong thing i reckon it is highly unlikely anyone using 4 extra pots for bubs is going to end up with anything more than a talking to. spose we'll have to start another thread up looking for toddlers available to go crabbing too...

[cobiaman]

That is disappointing!!
I like taking my 2 boys 7 and 9 crabbing but I don't think I would be ready to let them get crabs out of the pots and tie them yet. My dad loves going as well but with his emphysema he gets knocked up these days pulling the pots up so I guess he cant go either.

Knowing your 2 young fellas, i would give them more chance of getting crabs out of the pots uninjured than me......

[robsue]

And did you get a response from the district manager? I'm guessing no, cause they just publicly discriminated against all physically handicapped and unable bodied people.

Love to see where the legislation states that elderly and handicapped can't do it with assistance...

Also means everyone of you blokes that make the deckie pull ALL the pots better start doing your own ::)

it stated that have to be shown to be capable of, not that you must only pull 4 pots each, if 2 on board and 8 pots, deckie would never be booked for pulling all 8 pots

[netmaker]

so seeing as neither of my kids want to go fishing or crabbing i am in the market for a couple of kids. smaller the better as my boat is small. not interested in any pregnant mothers as they take up too much space (and are high maintenance). can pay $5 per hour per kid.

and this just in:
daves discount daycare - special rate of $7 per hour per kid. parents to provide all tucker and 1 giant nappy as i don't change 'em.;D

[Triple]

it stated that have to be shown to be capable of, not that you must only pull 4 pots each, if 2 on board and 8 pots, deckie would never be booked for pulling all 8 pots

Was sarcasm if you didn't notice the ::) ;)

But I'm sure a lot of blokes on here aren't capable of lifting their own.. And use the deckie instead. So should they be allowed pots cause they are too weak or old and incapable of using pots themselves? Will the fisheries officer ask each person on board to show their capabilities of baiting, setting, pulling and removing crabs just to be sure that they are all capable?

Does poor little johnny who has no arms but loves to go crabbing and eat crabs not allowed his own pots if the others on board are willing to do it for him?

(Yes more sarcasm.. With a hint of stirring)

[WalrusLike]

And interested parents... don't forget that DDD child care have a dress code...

all ankle biters must be wearing their flashiest Hawaii shirts for the end of day team photos.


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