Muffs, how do you flush?

[Fed]

Prompted by another thread that I don't want to hijack.

I've always turned the hose on so that there's always water spraying out of the sides of the muffs yet in contrast I've seen people run on a much reduced flow so that the muffs suck onto the leg when the engine is started.

A couple of points...

I believe doing it my way, let's say too much pressure, the combined water pressure from hose plus pump is enough to open the poppet valves which in turn leaves the thermostats closed.

I believe doing the the other way, reduced pressure & sucking the muffs on, is obviously starving the motor of water.

There's the question, how do you do it & what's your reasoning?
C'mon muff flushers don't be shy.

[Bazzawookooka]

Well Fed,

As it turns out my son installed the muffs on Saturday when we got home, then fired the motor. A couple of minutes later I noticed that water wasn't spewing past the muffs as usual and went to investigate.

The hose had a kink on the reel and much less water than usual was being delivered. End result was the water coming from the leg and the tell-tale was hot. Not boiling, but it normally runs cool.

So my conclusion is that I would rather have it over-delivering than not.

Cheers, Steve

[Fed]

My tap is sort of out of sight, I've been thinking about putting a tap on the hose close to the motor so I can easily slow the water flow until there's just a small amount of overflow.
The way it is now my motor never really even gets past cool warm when flushing and I'd feel better if it got up to normal operating temp.

[hainsofast]

I dump my 150 in a plastic 44gal, fill lit 3/4 and run it till the water is warm bath temp (usually 10 minutes)

[Noelm]

plain old (good quality) muffs, tap on full is what I do, I often thought of having a "Y" setup so I can flush both motors at once! I have a bit of a system, first thing I do is flush the motors, I hook up the flushers, and get the bucket that I am going to use to wash the boat, start the motor, and put the bucket under the tell tail, by the time I have everything out of the boat, the bucket is full, I then give everything a good hose "squirt, then hook up the second motor, while that is flushing, I start sponging the boat and motors, and when the second motor is finished, it's time for a hose off.

[Fed]

I let it rip too Noel, do you get hot water coming out, too hot to touch?

Thermostats should open around 150F? and my water is barely luke warm, no where near 150F.

[Noelm]

nah, pretty cool, depends on where the tell tail take off point is, some are straight off the water supply, so the temp never changes, I can tell when my thermostats open, because the stream gets really strong, digs the sand out from between the pavers! that's one of the reasons I started using the bucket under the stream.

[Still_Dreamin]

plain old (good quality) muffs, tap on full is what I do, I often thought of having a "Y" setup so I can flush both motors at once! I have a bit of a system, first thing I do is flush the motors, I hook up the flushers, and get the bucket that I am going to use to wash the boat, start the motor, and put the bucket under the tell tail, by the time I have everything out of the boat, the bucket is full, I then give everything a good hose "squirt, then hook up the second motor, while that is flushing, I start sponging the boat and motors, and when the second motor is finished, it's time for a hose off.

I do the same but only have a single motor.

[cormorant]

My tap is sort of out of sight, I've been thinking about putting a tap on the hose close to the motor so I can easily slow the water flow until there's just a small amount of overflow.
The way it is now my motor never really even gets past cool warm when flushing and I'd feel better if it got up to normal operating temp.

Extra water within reason but my water pressure is huge so tap is restrcited. tap on hose is easy as one of these.
http://www.bunnings.com.au/gardena-12mm-hose-connector-with-control-valve_p3110386
http://www.bunnings.com.au/nylex-hose-fit-connector-12mm-3-way-coupling-715075_p3110532

[Fed]

nah, pretty cool, depends on where the tell tail take off point is, some are straight off the water supply, so the temp never changes, I can tell when my thermostats open, because the stream gets really strong, digs the sand out from between the pavers! that's one of the reasons I started using the bucket under the stream.
Even that sounds strange Noel, pee stream getting stronger when the stats open would sort of indicate the pee take off is after the thermostats and you'd then expect the water to be hot.
I also feel my water at the prop.

[Fed]

That tap is exactly what I need thanks cormorant.

[Noelm]

Yeah I guess you are right, it's just that it starts off "normal" then after a minute or so, the stream goes into "gerny" mode, just sort of assumed it was when the thermostats opened, but now you mention it, I guess not, it must be just the way it works, might take a bit for everywhere to get full of water or something.

[deckie]

I crank it full pressure after putting them on (before starting) then back off just slightly to maybe 3/4 pressure...i still always get plenty of water spewage from the muffs even after starting. Cant imagine any muffs that give a perfect seal....maybe they exist i dont know nor have ever cared to track them down. Whilst washing or whateva i simply keep a bit of an eye out for the tell tail just in case it stops for any reason...if its a strong stream its all good to me. Never had an issue. When i can feel that tell tail water go a bit warmer and the prop water too i just give it another minute or two and thats it. If doing just after retrieve at the ramp thats usually only 5-10mins at idle i'd guess.

[LittleSkipper]

I use a plastic tank, no if's, no butts? No excuses. No problems.

[Fed]

Reading between the lines on the muff flusher posts it looks like no one is getting there motors hot enough to open the thermostats.

[Seahuff]

Taking into account the safety factor
I have heard suggestions of putting the motor into reverse whilst flushing to help remove any sand / debris into the water pump housing
Good idea to put motor in gear to assist flushing ??

[WalrusLike]

Next time i am out I am going to feel the temp of the telltale after a run on the bay....

I bet it is cold just like muff flushing.... I think it's before it's got into the galleries.


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[cormorant]

Taking into account the safety factor
I have heard suggestions of putting the motor into reverse whilst flushing to help remove any sand / debris into the water pump housing
Good idea to put motor in gear to assist flushing ??

Bottom line - no gain in any way and dangerous

No water runs into the gearbox.
Placing it in reverse does nothing to the waterflow into or through the motor.
Waterpump turns same way no matter what gear it is in as it runs off the drive shaft above the gearbox.

Yeah - not safe and slap anyone witha snapper head who tells you again.

[Si]

I use a drum now. much quieter, never an issue with amount of water 'getting in'. too easy mate. learnt the hard way using cheap muffs and melted a water pump on an old merc.

[johncar]

I was getting over temp alarm on the DF250 using standard muffs with full tap pressure, had to make a double sided muff and 3/4 hose to keep it cool enough while flushing. No problems since.
Next step would have been a tank.

[Malcolm W]

After taking my Yamaha 115 apart the drawing below is exactly the flow path. The water flows constantly through the cylinder head and block via small holes, the thermos open for extra flow and that's when the telltale loses some power.

By the heat gun these open at 50 deg C. The thermostats have the temp marked on them. I took the thermostats out while running to flush the crap out for a few seconds and the telltale almost stopped as the water poured out.

The telltale at lower revs will on the Yamaha be luke warm or cold depending if the thermostats are open. If you get a chance lean over the back at 4000 rpm and it will be warmer.

Water is not held or blocked at any stage before the thermostats, just restricted until the engine reaches temp. The 115 takes approx 1 min at idle revs before they open. I imagine most motors are similar to this.

You get way more pressure using a drum.

http://www.yamahaoutboards.com/sites/default/files/styles/news_large/public/waterflowchartblvol2no3.jpg

[bf90]

I have a honda bf 90 I flush with muffs on full noise from the tap. from a cold start up within the minute the tell tail gets hot for about 5 seconds then goes warm for about 15 seconds then back to hot again. The water from the prop always remains more than warm.

[bigpat]

In people's opinion, is it REALLY that important that the thermostat opens?

On the puffs, and heaps of tap pressure, after 5 minsI'm lucky if the water coming out is lukewarm. Any longer and boss goes crook about wasting water....

[goat boy]

I was getting over temp alarm on the DF250 using standard muffs with full tap pressure, had to make a double sided muff and 3/4 hose to keep it cool enough while flushing. No problems since.
Next step would have been a tank.
Ive had the same and put it down to no matter what the pressure, if the muffs aren't squeezing tight enough bugger all water gets through (and what does come out the tell tale is hot).
I ended up clamping the muffs on, got a nice strong, steady stream of water out the tell tale (no more dribble) and what comes out is cool and no more alarm. That was my fix, I tried it to see, it worked, so I stuck with it.

[Fed]

In people's opinion, is it REALLY that important that the thermostat opens?
I think it is and probably more so with certain motors depending on how the whole flow system is set up.

Suzuki exhaust corrosion problems spring to mind and I think some of the big Yamahas had some problems too.

With my old motor I'm not a flushing zealot but with the price of new motors I think it's worth discussion. I wouldn't even believe what the manufacturers say because they only need to get their motors past the warranty period.

[LittleSkipper]

In people's opinion, is it REALLY that important that the thermostat opens?

On the puffs, and heaps of tap pressure, after 5 minsI'm lucky if the water coming out is lukewarm. Any longer and boss goes crook about wasting water....

Yes Pat! It is important that the thermostat opens or your engine will not reach its operating temperature and you will bugger your engine.

[bigpat]

On the water, yes I understand, but when flushing?

[Noelm]

Taking into account the safety factor
I have heard suggestions of putting the motor into reverse whilst flushing to help remove any sand / debris into the water pump housing
Good idea to put motor in gear to assist flushing ??
makes no difference, the drive shaft that drives the water pump always goes the same way, the reverse rotation is in the gearbox, not the drive shaft!

[Noelm]

I think it is and probably more so with certain motors depending on how the whole flow system is set up.

Suzuki exhaust corrosion problems spring to mind and I think some of the big Yamahas had some problems too.

With my old motor I'm not a flushing zealot but with the price of new motors I think it's worth discussion. I wouldn't even believe what the manufacturers say because they only need to get their motors past the warranty period.
The Suzuki problem is in the DRY section of the exhaust, same as the Yamaha problem, no amount of flushing is going to prevent it.

[bigjimg]

I connect up with home made Y hose connector to the muffs then run up to 58deg C, thermostat opens, and run for a further 5 mins. The tell tale never gets hot and all hot water ejects from the outlet in the lower cowl. Water pressure is constant at .011 - .015 bar. So far so good. Jim

[Fed]

The Suzuki problem is in the DRY section of the exhaust, same as the Yamaha problem, no amount of flushing is going to prevent it. Thanks Noel I thought the nasty plug was in the wet zone at that angled ramp section right where it looks like the water & exhaust mix. (See pics for my confusion)
Half of this thread is due to my water deflectors being shot again after only 3 years, after I fix them I'm going the be the best flusher ever.

[manta man]

Get rid of the Plugs, only way is a 44 galleon drum of sorts.

[WalrusLike]

Get rid of the Plugs, only way is a 44 galleon drum of sorts.

These Galleon Drums you speak of... anything to do with Pirates, are they matey?

Arghhhh... ye carnt beat pillaging a good old galleon. :)


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[Cheech]

I also use double sided muffs. I don't see that you could have too much pressure, considering the water pressure that enters whilst at speed on the water.

[robsue]

I use ear muffs, but in the past I have had a cut down garbage bin, which I put a bung in, easy to wheel around...... might have to score another one actually

[Scalem]

I use ear muffs, but in the past I have had a cut down garbage bin, which I put a bung in, easy to wheel around...... might have to score another one actually Sounds a good solution. My guess is that you remove the bung and drain after each flush? I wonder how many drums are drained each time, and if so, how easy is it to do that? I did have one of those bag thingies you can buy from BCF and hated it. Always hard to get the engine leg in perfectly without the bag falling over. I just use the round muffs which are a tight seal onto the leg, and let it rip at full pressure from the hose. I am always hovering around the engine while it idles, unpacking the boat and stuff, keeping an eye on the tell tail. I will either walk through the water on the ground or deliberately stick my foot under the prop water to tell that it is warm, then feel the temp of the tell tail also. After 10 mins is usually enough time, or when the tell tail is noticeably warmer than the water directly from the hose. There will always be water escaping the seal around the muffs when you have the tap turned up full, so this is the water I am referring to "direct from the hose" which has not actually gone into the motor.

Scalem

[Fed]

I just measured my leg & need a drum nearly 700 mm dia, that's bigger then a wheely bin or a 44 Gal drum WTF? It's only a little 90HP motor?

[WalrusLike]

Yeah Fed a while ago I measured my Yammie 115hp 2stroke and found it wouldn't fit in a wheelie bin, too big.

But now I am wondering if I measured diagonally.... I will have a look on the weekend.


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[Malcolm W]

I just measured my leg & need a drum nearly 700 mm dia, that's bigger then a wheely bin or a 44 Gal drum WTF? It's only a little 90HP motor?

Yamaha 115 fits perfectly diagonally. I cut approx 300mm off the top attached a hose fitting to the bottom fo fill and drain. Bolted the lid holder back on and still use it as a going away bin with a liner. I'm supprised your 90 won't fit?

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95525&d=1376443477&thumb=1 (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95525&d=1376443657)http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95526&d=1376443458&thumb=1 (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95526&d=1376443660)

[Si]

I just measured my leg & need a drum nearly 700 mm dia, that's bigger then a wheely bin or a 44 Gal drum WTF? It's only a little 90HP motor?

Do you have a hydrofoil attached?

[cormorant]

mate uses a tub on wheels ( like they use in food processing plants, bakery butcher etc ) . I assume someone will know a butcher or plant who can buy them for you wholesale or a few and get a discount. Food grade ones can be very expensive new but 2nd hand or seconds from a manufacturer . Bought it as a damaged second from a polly tub , watertank , wheely bin manufacturer near gosford - this isn't them but shows photo as did a quick search and couldn't find em - maybe gooooone?

You can also get stock feed troughs that are about 600 deep , oval and are about the right size - no idea who makes them though as never seen a brand name. Check out your local polly manufacturer for 2nds

http://www.unistorgroup.com/products.php?id=488&id1=397

http://www.fletcherinternational.com.au/Wheeled_Ingredient_Dispener_90Ltr_p/rm18tr.htm

http://www.spacepac.com.au/Brochures/F-Series(Fletcher_Int)/F-Series_mobiles_and_Chassis-Trucks_2pg_np.pdf


you can place stuff in the dead space in a tub and use a lot less water as well as having it the correct height on casters .

[Fed]

I'll accurately re-measure my motor & bin when it gets emptied Malcolm maybe I can just squeeze it in there.

Got no hydrofoil Si.

Thanks for the links cormorant I've been getting no where looking in Bunnings type places.