Larger Boat Advice

[battleon]

Hi All,

Just wondering if any members have any experience with larger vessels. I know this is mainly a trailer boat forum but I have sold my trailer boat and thinking about going larger. If I go larger in trailer boat I would have to upgrade my vehicle as well so was thinking the below:

Getting a bit older now and want to enjoy some more creature comforts in a boat. I am in 2 minds whether to go something older and classic like a 30-34ft Riviera or Mariner etc or go a more modern Sunrunner 3300/ Mustang. Now budget is around 100k so would only get say a 1990 Riviera/Mariner for that money but would go with Diesel engines or would get a 2005-2007 Sunrunner/mustang for around 90K but would have petrol engines but very nice and comfortable layout. Use would be some cruising, fishing diving, just general bits and pieces.

Anyone have any tips or good advice?

Cheers

[GBC]

There's been a 34 monterey in the courier mail for a while now - it'd go for about $80 I'd guess, which would buy a bit of fuel (you'll need a bit with twin volvos (350 chevs)). Genny, air con the whole bit - Monterey's are excellently fitted out and are built to USCG standard.
$100k buys a fair lump of non trailerable boat at the moment.

[BGG]

Mate, I've dabbled a bit in that space so here's my initial thoughts.
1. Avoid petrol
2. Avoid stern drive legs
3. Work out mooring costs and include them in your budget
4. Work out annual slipping, anti-foul and maintenance costs and include them
5. Work out what you want/need in a tender and include that in your budget.
6. Make sure the tender is easy to access and store

As I said these are just initial thoughts. I'll wait to see what others can offer before I think more.
Brad

[battleon]

Mate, I've dabbled a bit in that space so here's my initial thoughts.
1. Avoid petrol Any particular reason why apart from using more fuel. Diesels seem to be around 20k more and 20k is a lot of fuel
2. Avoid stern drive legs Again any reason why? There are so many of these built these days I thought most of the bugs would be ironed out by now
3. Work out mooring costs and include them in your budget Done and no problem there.
4. Work out annual slipping, anti-foul and maintenance costs and include them Shall include it thanks
5. Work out what you want/need in a tender and include that in your budget. Many of these do come with a small tender. although good point if it doesn't
6. Make sure the tender is easy to access and store. Again many come set up already although not all stored in a good position so will take that comment onboard also thanks

As I said these are just initial thoughts. I'll wait to see what others can offer before I think more.
Brad

Thanks for the points hopefully some others can elaborate on some of the comments as well :)

[Captain Seaweed]

Just do it mate, dive in head first. Thats what I do....you live once!!! whats the worst thing that could happen....bad experience? ofcourse make sure it fits your budget but dont suffer of paralysis through analysis

Spend up !!!!!

Cheers
Marty

Must add....posting under the influence

But still agree with what I said!!!!!

[Aussie123]

I owned large moored boats for many years and they can be expensive to own.
Your yearly slipping costs is something you must dig deep into to find out what you are up for.
A glass or alloy boat needs slipping and painting twice a year and a timber boat needs slipping every 4 months to avoid getting grub in the hull.
Most slipways these days do not allow you to work on your own boat so you must find out that first.
If you have to pay a shipwright and his lacky twice a year it will cost you a lot of money.
You need to buy antifoul,brushes and rollers,thinners,anodes,tape ect for every slipping plus pay x amount per meter of boat length to go up on a slip and then labour costs.
If you can find a slipway that allows you to do your own work it is quite a cheap exercise as the paint,anodes and other materials are not worth a lot of money.
As for any large vessel configurations,I would never own anything unless it is diesel and shaft driven.

[battleon]

I owned large moored boats for many years and they can be expensive to own.
Your yearly slipping costs is something you must dig deep into to find out what you are up for.
A glass or alloy boat needs slipping and painting twice a year and a timber boat needs slipping every 4 months to avoid getting grub in the hull.
Most slipways these days do not allow you to work on your own boat so you must find out that first.
If you have to pay a shipwright and his lacky twice a year it will cost you a lot of money.
You need to buy antifoul,brushes and rollers,thinners,anodes,tape ect for every slipping plus pay x amount per meter of boat length to go up on a slip and then labour costs.
If you can find a slipway that allows you to do your own work it is quite a cheap exercise as the paint,anodes and other materials are not worth a lot of money.
As for any large vessel configurations,I would never own anything unless it is diesel and shaft driven.

Thanks for the info, I dont have any problems with mooring and slipping as these are not so costly here in Tassie. I can work on the boat myself should I choose to.
Still trying to get advice as to why the petrol motors and legs are so bad if they are maintained properly. I would actually look at a boat lift to keep it out of the water if its a Sports Cruiser.

[Captain Seaweed]

Speak to Pete...Grand Marlin.. he has worked on many legs..his opinion (from memory) great set up but expensive if used for salt water. Always causing problems and much better of with shaft drives....please correct me Poiter!
I think boat lifts are great by the way Battle on...my boat was kept on a lift in the US and is great . Runs outboards though.

[oldie]

the legs are a concern on boats that live in the water as they require more maintenance I think that is what they are trying to say, where shaft drives are prob the best option for a boat that lives in the water as they covered in prop speed or similar and tend to handle 12 monthly slipping depending on usage

nothing wrong with these
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Markline-1100-DLX-/181202851874?pt=AU_Boats&hash=item2a30881822&_uhb=1

[oldie]

things like transom shields/plates can be very expensive as its engine out jobs

[Horse]

A glass or alloy boat needs slipping and painting twice a year and a timber boat needs slipping every 4 months to avoid getting grub in the hull.
Most slipways these days do not allow you to work on your own boat so you must find out that first.
.

We have had timber vessels for the last 25 years or so. Slipping happens around the 12-18 month mark. No issues with worm except in the sacrificial deadwood. Displacement glass boats get longer but planning hulls need to be clean.
Petrol motors are a nightmare on a moored vessel. The electronics can't survive in that moist salty environment for long. Shaft drive is the only viable option for a vessel kept in the water

[oldie]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Riviera-27ft-Flybridge-Cruiser-Turbo-Diesel-/111143714570?pt=AU_Boats&hash=item19e0ae7f0a&_uhb=1

leg powered but new engine

[cormorant]

Hey aussie

Hell I don't know what area you are in but all our boats gets slipped once a year, run either hard or ablating antifoul, propspeed and depending on season we wipe our boats in the water. No way do we slip them more than that. Considering talking to blokes who have the ultrasonic antifoul to see if it is hocus pocus or works in our area.

Sterndrives just work out more expensive on a boat on a mooring. Not sure how much better a seapen would help and a boatlift on a wharf where you can flush and wash makes a huge difference.

Diesel shaft is simple and low maintenance as long as you pick the right diesels long lived and efficient. Like with all boats it is not only what you buy it for it is what you can sell it for.

So much depends on what sort of boating you do and what facilities are convenient to you in regards to moorings, hardstand, dry storage or marinas. What fishing, family and use do you really use now and want in the future.

Look at the worst case for everything and then you may be pleasantly surprised if it works out.

I personally would never buy a sterndrive boat to keep moored and due to explosion risk am not a fan of petrol inboards offshore either but after saying that at a certain price and size both those rules I have broken in the past. Hell I've even owned wooden boats.

Put up a few boats and let us all take the piss out of them - i mean state the pros and cons. Have to say in Tassie I'd like a Arvor , lobster style boat with enclosed cabin to stay warm and be able to plane to get places. Fishing machine or family cruiser and do you do overnighters with guests ?

[Aussie123]

I used to do 100 hours a week in my boat so I went through a lot of antfoul as it self polishes off.
Also winching gear up rubbed it off in a lot of places as well.
My mooring was also a fair way up a river in a small creek so we were prone to a lot of gunk on our hulls that you don't get as bad down in cleaner ocean waters.
Maintenance schedules all come down to your mooring area and usage of the vessel.
Remember I am talking about work boats here and not pleasure boats that spend 90% of their life sitting still on a mooring which I should have made clear at the beginning.
If you go with a sling setup to remove the boat from the water,you have no antifoul costs which will save you money every year so that's worth thinking about.

[fly_1]

. With the modern anti fouls you will get almost 2 years out of it. As long as you use the boat regularly, which helps remove the thin layer of slime/moss you get, you should get a good run with the anti foul. My Kevlacat has done just over 2 years now and will get another few months before it comes out again. The aluminum pods are a different story. Having to use an aluminum anti foul on them, I would be lucky to get 8 months before they need to be redone. This happens to coincide with engine servicing.
It depends very much where you are in regards to you being able to work on your boat yourself. Here in the Sunshine Coast it's no worries. You can even get a security tag to let yourself in over the weekends. I realize it depends a lot on the type of vessel you have and the materials it's made of, but nowadays its nothing like it used to be. I agree totally with regards to stern drives. If they are moored its going to cost you. Shaft drive is the way to go. If you do have stern drive legs keep it on a air berth or similar.

[spelchek]

Hi battleon - in the process of doing same at the moment. The ~35 flybridge cruisers are what we're looking at but then I've got a family of 5 to think of. For what it;s worth we've budgetted $10k a year for mooring/antifoul/servicing. That figure may or may not blow out - yet to see I guess - but the people (in the know) Ive spoken to sem to think tha;s a sensible estimate.

Out of interest, how many are you lookign to sleep on board? We looked at the Arvor weekenders very favourably - however in the end, just not big enough for a week away for 5. Certainly wouldn't be able to take the kids mates on occasion. Other than that, bloody nice boats that are going for around $115 new! If it was just me and the missus (or maybe one kid) we'd have pulled the pin on one at last years sanctuary cove boatshow. Definitely worth a look.

Im looking at diesel - but that's a personal preference. I've been told the modern EFI petrol engines are fine these days but to beware the older carby models.

Happy to speak more about what I've discoverd in the 12-odd months I've been researching/looking. I've bugged the shite out of more than a few blokes asking question after question and more than happy to pass any of the advice on if you're interested - shoot me a pm.

[Chimo]

If you have petrol engines the manifolds and risers don't last especially if you have the boat on a lift or air dock as the salty air gets in via the leg and they rust badly. Your better off leaving it in the water to keep the air out. BUT leaving it in the water is bad for the leg and the bellows which need to be watched re barnacle growth which will cut the rubber especially if you store with motor up and then lower to use.

On my mates boat that I spend a fair bit of time looking after as hes away for months at a time last year new SS manifolds and rises were fitted which should reduce that problem and this year the boat had to be lifted to get the leg rebuilt and mainly replace rubber bellows and replace the oil seal after it leaked and filled the bilge with oil.

If I were you I would seriously look at a new Arvor Weekender which I think runs at about $115k say $120k with some good electronics. Shaft drive and diesel so pretty well all the potential petrol and leg issues are overcome. Also check out the second hand NSW Steber 22 or 28 or bigger older frp boats too.

Cheers
Chimo

[battleon]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Riviera-27ft-Flybridge-Cruiser-Turbo-Diesel-/111143714570?pt=AU_Boats&hash=item19e0ae7f0a&_uhb=1

leg powered but new engine

Thanks
That looks a nice neat boat although a little smaller that I was considering.

[battleon]

Hey aussie

Hell I don't know what area you are in but all our boats gets slipped once a year, run either hard or ablating antifoul, propspeed and depending on season we wipe our boats in the water. No way do we slip them more than that. Considering talking to blokes who have the ultrasonic antifoul to see if it is hocus pocus or works in our area.

Sterndrives just work out more expensive on a boat on a mooring. Not sure how much better a seapen would help and a boatlift on a wharf where you can flush and wash makes a huge difference.

Diesel shaft is simple and low maintenance as long as you pick the right diesels long lived and efficient. Like with all boats it is not only what you buy it for it is what you can sell it for.

So much depends on what sort of boating you do and what facilities are convenient to you in regards to moorings, hardstand, dry storage or marinas. What fishing, family and use do you really use now and want in the future.

Look at the worst case for everything and then you may be pleasantly surprised if it works out.

I personally would never buy a sterndrive boat to keep moored and due to explosion risk am not a fan of petrol inboards offshore either but after saying that at a certain price and size both those rules I have broken in the past. Hell I've even owned wooden boats.

Put up a few boats and let us all take the piss out of them - i mean state the pros and cons. Have to say in Tassie I'd like a Arvor , lobster style boat with enclosed cabin to stay warm and be able to plane to get places. Fishing machine or family cruiser and do you do overnighters with guests ?

Thanks Cormorant,
Would definitely be doing overnighters up to 2-3 days at a time usually so some comfort is important for me. The Arvor boats do look good but dont come cheap and I was after something bigger.. Around 30-34ft.

[BGG]

Battleon
I won't answer any of the questions you asked me because I agree whole heartedly with most of the other postings re diesel and shaft drives. The real question I have now is what sort of water will you be using the boat in? Outside? Moreton Bay? Southern Bay? And of course what sort of speed are you looking for? Cruise at 6 Knots? 12 Knots? 20 Knots?

[battleon]

Hi battleon - in the process of doing same at the moment. The ~35 flybridge cruisers are what we're looking at but then I've got a family of 5 to think of. For what it;s worth we've budgetted $10k a year for mooring/antifoul/servicing. That figure may or may not blow out - yet to see I guess - but the people (in the know) Ive spoken to sem to think tha;s a sensible estimate.

Out of interest, how many are you lookign to sleep on board? We looked at the Arvor weekenders very favourably - however in the end, just not big enough for a week away for 5. Certainly wouldn't be able to take the kids mates on occasion. Other than that, bloody nice boats that are going for around $115 new! If it was just me and the missus (or maybe one kid) we'd have pulled the pin on one at last years sanctuary cove boatshow. Definitely worth a look.

Im looking at diesel - but that's a personal preference. I've been told the modern EFI petrol engines are fine these days but to beware the older carby models.

Happy to speak more about what I've discoverd in the 12-odd months I've been researching/looking. I've bugged the shite out of more than a few blokes asking question after question and more than happy to pass any of the advice on if you're interested - shoot me a pm.

Thanks Spelchek,
I Would be taking 3-4 adults out so want something a reasonable size preference is for 2 x double beds but one double and couple of singles is ok. The Arvor's do look great but not big enough and 100k is pretty much my budget for the whole package less mooring costs etc.

I will take up your offer and send a pm

[battleon]

Here is a couple I was thinking about. First one is in Tassie and would save on transport costs if it was a good boat. I know the mechanic they talk about so I could ask him about engine condition.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=14123276&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=2&eapi=2

Or something like this.. Low hours because not used a lot, kept out of the water. Nice comfortable layout.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15154734&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=9&eapi=2

I love this Sunrunner but its done 1100 hrs which may mean its getting close to rebuilding something maybe???

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15154658&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=6&eapi=2

[cormorant]

Hit the big decisions first. Not to be answered as such but keep in the back of the head
Diesel - Shaft Old pluggers or new fast spinny things
Cat or monohull?
Displacement or semiplanoing or planing?
Style - sports, cuddles, trawler house on the water etc
Age and fashion - Do you want a pretty boat with modern lines?
Fairweather or allweather. - Are you going to use it all year round
maintenance - doing it yourself or paying for it and just how much time/ money do you have for woodwork etc.
Mooring, hardstand, slip ,marina
Are the family really interested???????? Will you get enough use out of it - how many hours a year?

Tassie weather - how to keep the moisure mould and mildew at bay when not on a marina and powered to keep a constant temperature.

outside the box a bit and yes some have legs and worse volvo motors - urghhh . Cats have great stability, twin motor safety and can have great entertaining space

I love these slow style boats - won't plane but you will get there - house on the water
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15424326&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=45&eapi=2

Hmmm
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=10822271&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=0&eapi=2

Never believe a list price - wonder what hours it has , hope they are 6cyl cats and I don't know that hull.

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15468137&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=41&eapi=2

[battleon]

Well, I finally found something that took my fancy. Motors have checked out and Survey came back looking good also. Should take possession within a couple of weeks. Cant wait to take her for a spin :)

9970099701997029970399704

[Chimo]

Hi battleon

See this to see how to attach pictures so others can see them. http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?103565-Attaching-photos-files-to-posts

Thanks

Cheers
Chimo
PS cannot comment on your boat as it cannot be seen!

[battleon]

Got it now Chimo, I think.

[Chimo]

Looks good, but as my detailer says "Do they come with a white hull, blue can be a bugger for fading"

What motors?

C
C

[battleon]

300Hp Mercruisers. Yep will have to keep the polish up to it but as yet no signs of fading and she is 13yo.

[Chimo]

Apart from the weather at present the sun is less intense down there, possibly helps as will keeping it out of the water which will also help the legs.
My mates is on an air dock up here and while the hull appreciates no antifoul (except the side facing north) the steel manifolds and risers didnt like the salty air they copped when the the leg was out of the drink.
Between a rock and hard place that it seems is only resolved with a shaft drive with dripping seals as the dripless seem to get hot too easily.
Have the manifolds and risers been changed over to SS yet?

[Blackened]

G'day

Nice little rig, looks to be black possibly in 2pac? Most of the mustang os that vintage came out with a dark blue that goes off very fast!

Don't skimp on the mechanical maintenance, antifouling or the detailing and it'll look after you. I'm sure it'll serve you well.

Dave

[battleon]

She recently had the manifolds and risers done so for now they are ok. Next service I will get them replaced with Stainless. I will change a few other fittings to Stainless also. She will be kept in the water and my plans are to try and get her out every 10 months for service as opposed to annually just so I can keep her looking and running well.

The colour is tricky, Its on the Rego as a Blue but it is a very dark blue or as you say almost black!! The anodes are almost due for replacement so she will be coming out of the water fairly soon for a few minor things to be done.

[cormorant]

Seapen is another idea if you have a clam area or it is stored in at a marina. Means the boat si stable in teh water and easy to exit and enter but a lot less maintenance as hull and legs are dry. Not many ski in tassi but behind that it would be a laugh. Hope you have many trouble free days and last bit of advice from me. Fuel is the cheapest cost and you will never wear it out so make plans no to use the hell out of it and see new destinations and because you are having so much enjoyment from it you will easily be able to justify the ongoing maintenance that happens if you use it or not. Oh hell - can't stop without one last piece of advice - find a decent mercruiser mechanic and keep on top of any maintenance and any known points of failure.

[Blackened]

G'day

Also look at getting a seapen for it or airberth. This will help significantly with the maintenance costs. Do the sums and you may be pleasantly surprised. One of my clients has a seapen for his 64 sunseeker and it's a very good thing.

If you look real close or have someone who knows what they're looking at, you may find that hull is indeed 2pac. The blues mustang used to my knowledge where nowhere near that dark.

Keep the wax up to that gelcoat on the decks as the mustang gelcoat is far from the best.

Have a good look at all the sea cocks as well and any other intakes, service the sea cocks whilst it's out. If they seize, and they do from time to time, they can be a right royal PITA to remove and replace.

Dave

[battleon]

Would love to get a seapen for it however the budget is pretty much shot right now, especially as the marina fees etc still need to be paid as well. Might be able to look at that in the future.

I have a good mate who is the mechanic at one of the Marina's nearby and he is very good with engines so he will be looking after it for me most of the time mechanically speaking.

Any suggestions as to the best wax for the gel coat?

The survey report did mention the seacocks need attention as they are getting a little stiff so will look at servicing them as well as soon as she is out of the water again.

I think your right Cormorant, It would be fun skiing behind this, might even give it a go one day :)
Fuel figures quoted by the owner were 60lph (both motors) cruising at 14knt at around 3200rpm I think it was.

[Blackened]

G'day

As for wax, search for a thread I did a few years ago, Detailing- How To.

The brand I use is Farecla, the UV Wax. If you cannot get it down there, type hallsindustries into Google. That's my supplier and he delivers Australia wide.

Dave

[battleon]

Latest update..... Well I took possession of the boat on the 30th Jan and been out 3-4 times in her. First trip was a 4 nighted with a mate and my son and it was brilliant. Fantastic ride and handles our sea conditions really well. That weekend a storm came through blowing 65-70knts and brought a lot of boats undone.. Quite a few hit the rocks but we were lucky and were anchored up just as it hit :). I have confidence it would have still handled it well should we have been caught.
Had a few minor issues like shower bilge not working right but I pulled that out and put a new one in no issues. A hose came loose on the hot water cylinder and again a simple fix but thats boats. Been pulling a few inspection panels off here and there to see where things are and how things are connected and all looks pretty good. The next time home I will be pulling her out of the water for service and anti foul so that should be interesting both in doing the work and price wise. Had no issues with the petrol motors so far and no fumes so all is good.

Hopefully she will give me many more years of enjoyment :)

PS any advice on antifouling, paint, best procedures etc are most welcome. Might get someone in to polish it up for me though I think.

[Yobbo70]

I would do some homework on the stainless steel risers and manifolds, there was 31 mariner in the marina where I keep my Riv, the owner changed his to stainless and his boat nearly caught fire, the stainless manifold sat to close to the hull in the engine room, he was very lucky smelt something burning and shut the motors off, I was there when the mechanic looked at it and he said the stainless steel risers and manifolds are good because they don`t corrode like cast ones but they do not transfer the heat as well as cast,

As for anti foul the best way I found is pay someone to do it through the week and have the boat back in the water at the weekend ready to use, on the Gold Coast at boat works It cost me $400 for a lift and hold for 4 days and $900 for C worthy marine to do the anitfoul, I also had C worthy do a sterndrive service and replace the seacocks as a matter of precaution

[battleon]

Yobbo, thanks for the heads up on that one. I knew they get a bit hotter but didn't realise it could be that much. It does have the coolant containers very near by so perhaps I should stick with the already known. I will do some more research thanks.

You may be right with the Antifoul and getting someone in but with the expense of anti foul, service 2 engines and legs, seacocks, polish the hull, possible a transducer change also so its gonna add up. Did they soda blast or just sand the hull? I do have 6 weeks off so can spend a week there myself doing some of it. Oh I could just stay at work an extra week to pay for it all lol.
Do you have 2 engines in the Riv and as a rough estimate what did that set you back cost wise for the serves etc? I can get the boat out cheaply as our fees in Tassie are quite cheap compared to there. $75.00 I think as its will be the 2nd time out this year but first for time since I owned it.