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Customcat12
11-08-2013, 09:22 AM
I see a lot of forums about the imported boats from China and I am interested to find out what the real problem is with the imports

mull dog
11-08-2013, 12:33 PM
Poor quality workmanship, inadequate engineering standards and zero after sales service.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 03:54 PM
And that is from which Company because what i read basically it is bundling all in the one category

mull dog
11-08-2013, 04:14 PM
I see what you are trying to do customcat. I read the reply you gave in the noble boats thread. My comments are based on experiences of noble boats both personally and those experienced by others on here. When you ask a question on here you are asking for someone's personal opinion. My personal opinion of a boat manufactured in china is that stated above and I would not touch one with someone else's bank account. If you want to advertise the boat building company you set up on china then pay to do so. Don't worm your way in trying to gauge interest then hit us with a sales pitch (which IMO is what you are trying to do). Why don't you set up a poll with the simple question:"would you buy a boat made in china?" and see what response you get.

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Made in China products are abundant. There are cheaper products in all areas these days and we should have some thanks for that.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 04:29 PM
If you personally had a bad experience with Noble then that is no good and that is between Noble and you I am not trying to get any free advertisement I am sick of you guys coming to forums bagging out Chinese product from armchair experts.
I also see the emails come in every day from Australia and there is one thing in common they want the cheapest price well lets be honest cheap is cheap i hear someone bagging out the noble boat saying Ben Noble was ripped of.
The plain truth is he is a business man he went to China for one reason make money I am sure it wasn't for the lifestyle and maybe he did get ripped off who actually knows only him and Noble International.
But the people who are buying the auction boats are aware of what they are getting them selves into but the lure of a boat for a ridiculously low price is what gets them.
As far as gauging the interest I would not still be in business if I did not have any idea of the market so wake up yes you are welcome to your opinion but do not assume what I am trying to do when it is obvious you have no idea.

cobiaman
11-08-2013, 04:33 PM
So you ask for peoples opinions and then shoot them down when they give it to you???

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 04:37 PM
I like my jetski but what I would really like is a custom built cat.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 04:40 PM
No not shooting anyone down just do not appreciate the comments that i am trying to push my barrow here i am actually interested to hear the comments I see a lot of quality product coming out and i am sure there are a lot of accessories from China in your boats.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 04:42 PM
FatBouy my comment was to mull dog and I would be happy to discuss

Midnight
11-08-2013, 04:48 PM
Plenty of good to come out of China, both in boat building and accessories.
Quality control is the key, and that means having an expert team of overseers on the ground in China.
You can have a 100% quality build done in China if you want to do it right.

Cheers,
Myles

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 04:52 PM
That is my point Myles what I am saying is don't shove them all in the one box you want cheap there is cheap you want something for a reasonable price it is available and in my opinion what is happening with Nobles going through the auctions will only do more damage but their is nothing that can stop it

Steeler
11-08-2013, 04:55 PM
CC12. I think you started this thread knowing full well where it would end up going and so you could shoot down anybody with an alternate view to yours.

Just Say'n.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:01 PM
Steeler everyone has their own point of view I started this thread because I read so many comments about the Chinese product but a small percentage has ever even seen one in person if you have a point of view fine but not just because it has a chinese manufacturer there are companies in China who spend a lot of money to manufacture quality product only to have it bagged out because it comes from China 10 years ago it was Taiwan before that japan

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:02 PM
And without discussion the stigma will still be there in another 10 years

Midnight
11-08-2013, 05:11 PM
I have been on board some 100% second to none quality, Chinese built boats.
As I said, it is possible if you want to do it that way.
You can get cheap shit built anywhere.....
You get what you pay for.....

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 05:11 PM
Well today I have decided to take up spear fishing.
My new speargun will either be a conveniently priced and available product, probably made in China. Or I should engineer one locally to a certain specification and it will takes 2 or 3 weeks and cost more.

fin101
11-08-2013, 05:20 PM
I have had a close look at a couple of chinese nobles that guys I know have bought, they got them cheap yes, but they look to be poorly made with ordinary welds, patchy welds in some spots where I would prefer to see a full weld, pretty mediocre paint jobs with a lot of bog. Answer this if you will, where is their dealer network???? They don't exactly inspire confidence if no one is willing to sell them. Sure you can buy stuff from china that might be well made but I would think it would cost the same as you could get here so what would be the point. Boats , like everything else they make is cheap as. Go to hardware shops and check out the cheap tools they flood the market with for DIYs. Their entire economy is based on cheap copies of quality foreign brands, much to the latters dismay. The day they can make an origin, amm, or bc or the like then most will get up and take notice and give credit where ever it is due. To be frank I don't think quality control is all that important to their manufacturing ideology , more likely it would to make it cheap, give it a minimal lifespan , so cheap everyone can access it and by another cheaply if and when it fails. They are immitators not innovators .

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:21 PM
I am chilled i did not come to the forum to get market information or suggestions on how to get into the market
i came to the forum to try to find out why if there is say a problem with a chinese manufactured boat does it then become by the end of the forum all the chinese manufactured boats are the same.
That is what this forum was about

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:31 PM
fin101 I agree with you Nobles have a drama with their welds i have been to the factory in China as for the bog they are alloy any alloy manufacturer with a boat that looks like it has come out of a mould that tells you they don't use bog is not giving you the truth.
Its alloy it heats up it deforms what differs is the amount of bog
And yes no dealer network so that is why they sell them cheap again I am not saying that is right but it works for some
But not all product in China is copied that i can assure you

fin101
11-08-2013, 05:35 PM
Well ok ! Where are the other chinese brands you speak of to compare or make a judgement on????? The noble is the only one I can comment on and have done so. Perhaps you know of or are interested in some other brand that is on the aussie market or soon will be then share it with us. It's quite simple really, make your product the best way you know how, take it around to prospective dealers , exhibit it at trade shows showing it's build quality, technology and innovation, compare it to it's competitors in your advertising campaign and see what happens. If it stacks up then the world will beat a path to your door. I refer back to my statement that if they can make it as good if not better than the above mentioned boats currently on the aussie market for less money or the same for that matter then good luck and congratulations to them. They just don't seem to be doing at the present time, just my opinion.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:39 PM
Nordhaven,Atomix both are available here one is at the top end of the yacht market the other is a quality fiberglass runabout

Fred Giles
11-08-2013, 05:42 PM
If it is made from Swedish Plate, welded with French wire, Designed in Australia to Aust Standards built under Australian supervision is it a Chinese Boat

Tangles
11-08-2013, 05:43 PM
You get what you pay for. A mate of mine bought a 600k Chinese live aboard yacht last year and lives on it at Hong Kong, he is quite happy with it.

In my industry a lot of work is done in China, Korea, India etc, with China especially over the years its a known thing, ie they do a test and get their A team on it, win job, in production you will most likely get C or D team if your lucky. If you have an overseas management team and pay the right money you will get the B team, big money you will get the A team.

I have heard horror stories as well as seen great work coming out,

One thing i have learnt is in our industry they are extremely bound to the absolute letter, if its not specified and you have more general clauses forget it, so basically you can get great work out of China but only if every thing is documented to an inch of its life, you have a management team in and you pay
the right money, at that its still a bit cheaper than other places but not by much in the end.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:47 PM
Trailcraft are made in China Savage have a range of boats built in china

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:51 PM
Tangles I agree with you and that is what I have been trying to get across in this forum it is possible to get quality just do not bundle all manufacturers with one that is not doing the right thing

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:52 PM
Fred built in China it is Chinese Built

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 05:53 PM
Well may I ask a simple question.
Has this particular thread here on Ausfsh today:

Made you want to buy a boat built in China?

Either Y or N please.

fin101
11-08-2013, 05:54 PM
CC12, you mention that you are involved in the boating industry ??? Good luck in your endeavours with it, but why don't you let us know what make or brand it is ???? Surely if it fulfils the above mentioned criteria then you should feel compelled to tell us about it. No point having it if nobody knows about it, kind of defeats the purpose don't you think????

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 05:55 PM
or maybe you already have and don't know it

cobiaman
11-08-2013, 05:57 PM
Well may I ask a simple question.
Has this particular thread here on Ausfsh today:

Made you want to buy a boat built in China?

Either Y or N please.

Its made me pour another drink to try and understand whats going on, its not working yet though....

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 05:59 PM
Not surprised. Me too.
That is why I have come up with an idea for a simple conclusion.
Y or N?

Boat hog 2
11-08-2013, 06:00 PM
CC12, you've obviously got an agenda here and desperately want to say something so just spit it out.
What do you want to hear?
What do want us all to think?
What should we all buy?
Why are we all wrong?
Why are you so right?
Your thread was obviously started to.give you a platform for something, but what?

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 06:00 PM
fin101 sorry I did not come here to promote my boats we have been in Australia for over 3 years and ship all over the world as I have said so many times I just wanted to to promote the idea that all manufacturers are not the same maybe some are not doing the right thing at the moment with the way they import and sell and i for one do not agree with this marketing style but not much we can do about it

Aussie123
11-08-2013, 06:01 PM
Secret Squirrel Boats

ozynorts
11-08-2013, 06:04 PM
SatNav boats......

gunna
11-08-2013, 06:12 PM
Would you by a Chinese car ??

ozynorts
11-08-2013, 06:14 PM
Would you by a Chinese car ??

Not yet but in 20yrs when they have proven themselves then maybe.....

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 06:14 PM
$25000 for a crew cab 4x4 yes

fin101
11-08-2013, 06:32 PM
I own a HH and as far as I'M aware they are made in Derimut in Victoria, maybe I was hallucinating last time I was there. As far as a chinese car goes, your in fact getting mostly mitsubishi components in the great wall. I still would like to know what your brand is, why is that to difficult for you to answer? If it was me and I had a good product I would be proud as punch to show it .

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 06:39 PM
Fin101 we use imported alloy french wire and the designs come from Australia but they are made in China so they are Chinese the brand is custom catamarine you can find it on google

fin101
11-08-2013, 06:43 PM
Thankyou. The 7.5 looks ok, bit more detail in pics etc would be nice, some more colour too.

lucee81
11-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Fin101 we use imported alloy french wire and the designs come from Australia but they are made in China so they are Chinese the brand is custom catamarine you can find it on google

What thickness of alloy are they made from?

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 06:51 PM
Fin101 as I have said from the start I never came here to promote our company basically i live in China 70% of the time when i come back I see so many forums about the Chinese boats usually brought on by Noble boats International.
What I have been trying to point out is it is a fact Chinese boats will become more available in the future so take every one on their own merit do not judge all by ones bad business policies

Shark Poker
11-08-2013, 06:52 PM
Well Thank You finally,
Now I can certainly see why he is upset!!
Poor QA and bog/paint coverage by another brand(s) does not help anyone trying to promote an upmarket ally boat from China.
CC12 said he did not want advice, but you need it Mate so here it is:
1.Make plenty of inspection ports to allow customer checks of the build below decks
2.Follow all the anti-corrosion treatment procedures on fittings
3.Pre-fit all items before shipping the hull
4.Use a decent, established dealer network with full T&C and Warranty details
5. Or sell unpainted, unfinished hulls that are able to be inspected
6. Be prepared to be treated and over-scrutinised as the new brand on the block, regardless of whether you come from China or Tingalpa.
7. Plenty of working demo and display stock.
8. Just accept the myriad of stupid comments re welding.
9. Accept it will be hard to break into the market, at any price. That is the way it is.
10. There are plenty of good customers and suppliers to work with.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 07:24 PM
I would like to thank everyone who has had input into this forum it has created discussion about the quality of the imported boats and what some manufacturers are doing that is in turn creating problems for others the only thing I would like to add please do not confuse Imports with Grey imports grey imports are imports with no manufacturers warranty basically no warranty at all that is not what we are about.
And Fatbouy thanks for your constructive criticism and feedback

ozynorts
11-08-2013, 07:28 PM
We know the difference between imports and grey imports but we don't know the difference between a Noble 5.8m mono and a Custom Marine 5.8m mono..

mull dog
11-08-2013, 07:29 PM
Didn't mean to start shit with my first replies to this thread, probably pissed off I'm the only bloke not out on the water this weekend, but my answer is NO I would not buy a Chinese built boat and I would not buy a Chinese built car. I also would not buy one built in Korea, Cambodia, Nepal, Congo, Peru or Kazakstahn. There is a difference in buying a $100 TV and a $100,000 boat.

WalrusLike
11-08-2013, 07:33 PM
When I was a kid the word for crap manufacturing was (forgive me please Japenese folks this is history...) ..... Jap Crap.

Nowadays Japanese is a synonym for high quality.

China can jump past the initial crap phase and go directly to high quality if manufacturers want to.... The advice above about inspection ability is gold I reckon.

If you are sincerely trying to produce a quality boat then I wish you every success.

If you put dangerous crap on the market the Aussie boating public are discerning... and will avoid it like the plague.

Follow the advice given by the previous posters and good luck to you.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 07:36 PM
mull dog I can see where you are coming of course it does not suit many purchasers it is an expensive and individual choice

NAGG
11-08-2013, 08:33 PM
I haven't had the chance to see a Chinese made boat as yet ........ but I'm pretty certain they would come with the disclaimer "Buyer Beware"
My employer a swiss multinational has 4 plants in China - Yet products are supplied back into China from Singapore / US & NZ - to the more discerning manufacturers (usually Western ) that have set up in China .
From what I have been told - the successful / quality orientated manufacturers set up based on a western model & employ westerners to run the show because you have to keep the whole process under the microscope .
Even with all of that ..... there are still major fails ! - if there is a problem .... it's likely to be glossed over & not reported

The Chinese are great Copiers ....... but as I have seen with industrial machinery based on European design / specifications ...... the whole box and dice - get landed with wiring that could see someone fried - motors wired incorrectly etc etc .

The way I look at it ...... for big ticket items if they are made in China (Car or boat) - thanks but no thanks!!!!

Chris

Jarrah Jack
11-08-2013, 08:36 PM
Good luck CC. There's a guy who comes on here occasionally who gets his boats made in Vietnam. He's never really pushed his product, perhaps because he doesn't have to but I think most of his stuff is military.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Nagg the hulls have 3 year warranty other fixtures come with manufacturers warranty whatever it may be for electrical usually 6 months

Tangles
11-08-2013, 08:51 PM
my experience, try enforcing things in China, can of worms... also setting up accounts and accountable financials in China is a long road, all that stuff needs a lot of time and work, easy to say but in practice it takes a lot of time to setup accountability.

Jarrah Jack
11-08-2013, 08:57 PM
A warranty isn't worth jack s if the business doesn't last. A competitor of mine once offered life time warranty and took business from me. He's closed down ten years ago.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 09:03 PM
yes thats right but that has nothing to do with China or Australia what will happen now with kevlacat ? imported boats are not for everyone of course we have had dealers here before but then customers want to go direct to the factory to save money so what to do sell direct and offer warranty or sell through a dealer they add their cut and they deal with the factory for warranty

ozynorts
11-08-2013, 10:17 PM
Well Thank You finally,
Now I can certainly see why he is upset!!
Poor QA and bog/paint coverage by another brand(s) does not help anyone trying to promote an upmarket ally boat from China.
CC12 said he did not want advice, but you need it Mate so here it is:
1.Make plenty of inspection ports to allow customer checks of the build below decks
2.Follow all the anti-corrosion treatment procedures on fittings
3.Pre-fit all items before shipping the hull
4.Use a decent, established dealer network with full T&C and Warranty details
5. Or sell unpainted, unfinished hulls that are able to be inspected
6. Be prepared to be treated and over-scrutinised as the new brand on the block, regardless of whether you come from China or Tingalpa.
7. Plenty of working demo and display stock.
8. Just accept the myriad of stupid comments re welding.
9. Accept it will be hard to break into the market, at any price. That is the way it is.
10. There are plenty of good customers and suppliers to work with.

I would add to this feedback by saying that you need to be sure that the products on your website are what you manufacture and sell. It can lead to confusion over who the customer is dealing with.

Customcat12
11-08-2013, 11:08 PM
Ozynorts yes of course that will be the discussion tomorrow but i really did not think having a forum on importing boats would basically portray us as some sort of scammer I have invested a lot of money and time to bring a boat to the market here in Australia but frankly speaking is it all worth it.
I am not here to prove our product we have done that over the last 3 years my discussion here was to find out why all companies are dumped in the China rubbish category.
but everyone made out that we had some other agenda here very disheartening

Apollo
12-08-2013, 05:59 AM
I guess CC12, you biggest issue is that quality chinese products are being lumped in with the rubbish ones. The problem we have is that there is a history of issues with chinese products being either poorly designed, manufactured or inconsistent. So you may have a good design, made from the best materials, but the challenge is to convince the buyers that they are gooing to get the well built one and not the problem plagued one. Now you can answer that we have a QA system and qualified people, etc, but others claiming the same with their chinese product seem to consistently produce inconsistent products. As a buyer, you don't know which one you are going to get. I recently had to return an chinese built product (and its subsequent replacements) three times before I got a good one and it has been great. So that is the reputation for 'chinese built' that you have to contend with and with most people having an experience of being burnt, the challenge is definately there. I have no doubt that a quality product can and does get build, but until I see evidence that yours or other chinese products are being produced in a consistent and quality manner, I won't be putting my dollars down to buy a chinese boat (or car) as I don't want to be the sucker that cops a bad one. I am also sure that eventually chinese products will shed that reputation and be known for quality products.

All the best with your endeavours
Steve

hilta1
12-08-2013, 07:34 AM
What has made it hard for us is that you gave us your website to have a look at your quality made boats and when we looked at your website you were advertising the very boat that we all know has quality control problems,the boat is listed under your products, and the photo is of a noble 5.8. And you still cant understand why you have been put under the griller????? You come on here and say why do all chinese products get put in the same category? Well if you cant get your advertising correct it doesnt give much confidence re your finished product. Do you actualy make a 5.8 Mono centre cab???? because i asked for photos and all you have sent is photos of a cat???? Please explain!!

ozynorts
12-08-2013, 08:09 AM
There are many reasons for products from China are viewed with distrust. For us on this forum the most obvious is Noble boats. Also when Great Wall first released there utes in Australia they were rubbish. They failed even the most basic of safety tests. Recently in New Zealand baby formula was recalled because of contamination. In China there are food scares because farmers are spraying their product with chemicals known to be harmful to humans.
When you came on here asking for feedback we asked you questions about your interest and you were evasive, so we got more curious. When you finally posted your site it contained images of boats that are known to have quality control issues. After being questioned you stated that these are not boats made by your company and that you have never been associated with them. Later you tell us that you have in fact been associated with them as you had been approached to view their boats. I assume you were looking for a mono hull design and they are a very good design, no problems there. But if you don't build or sell their boats why is there images of 3 of their boats on your site. In Australia if I was to promote my business using someone else's products I would expect to be questioned and likely sued. This is another reason why Chinese products are viewed with caution. Do you really get what you pay for or are you getting a cheap copy?
As for stating that the IT department was responsible for the mix up with the images, I would say that you as the company director is the one ultimately responsible. I still cannot understand why you would have images of a product you don't manufacture or sell on your site. It leaves a bad impression and first impressions are lasting. If those images had not been there I would have quite happily said that the Cat designs look good and I would happily look at one if I was in a position to buy one. After this however I will not.

Horse
12-08-2013, 09:51 AM
No Australian network or contact details sounds dodgy. Good luck getting any sort of warranty honoured from the Chinese factory. If we still had Muddy on the site we could send him over as an interpreter to sort things out.
I like the Noble design and is someone bought the rights to them and built them properly with good QA then I don't see a problem with them. The brand carries a lot of baggage in Australia but could sell in other markets

Midnight
12-08-2013, 11:19 AM
Ozynorts,
The milk powder for the baby formula was contaminated in NZ at the Fonterra plant, not in China.

It was pulled from the shelves in Australia, NZ, China and Russia due to the contamination of 38 tonnes of milk powder in NZ.

hilta1
12-08-2013, 03:22 PM
I dont want to sound like a seagull going for the last chip! But!!! I Realy can not make a couple of things out,CC sent me an email showing his product, still no pricing that i asked for, So out of curiosity i googled the name that the email came under, in that name a few company sites came up but what i cant understand is that one of them cleary has photos of most of the Noble range of boats that are available through them!!!! What the hell is going on here????? I do have a friend of mine that realy wants a 5.8 Noble with the supervee and would look at purchaseing new if quality was there, so i am now confused as to has this guy built the nobles before or not???? and if not why the hell are the photos of Noble international on every site that is linked to CC?????? All to hard, Has anyone got a 5.8 centre cab Noble built before international that they want to sell????????

gunna
12-08-2013, 03:43 PM
I once used a particular reel. Then one of the new ones i bought played up. The shop said - oh these are made in China now. I once used a particular AT tyre. They gave great mileage. Then they were in the press with problems. Tyre man said - oh they are made in China now. Got a couple caravanning friends who bought cheap chinese gennies. Bad mistake.

Not disputing some good things come out of there - but I am still very wary of most products. Like Bunnings throw away drills, sanders, jigsaws etc etc.

ozscott
12-08-2013, 04:15 PM
You know things are bad when you are scratching round that new power tool in the hope of seeing "made in Taiwan" instead of "made in PRC"

Cheers