Ran motor no oil

[simon_vaughan]

I have just had delivered a new boat and trailer (I did the import thing.) I decided I would turn it over today and the temp alarm came on after about 5 mins - to which I turned the motor off immediately. I thought that's funny and then I had an epiphany - no oil! I checked the dipstick and sure enough nothing. It is a Yamaha 4 stroke 150hp motor, my question is how much damage could have been caused at idle for about 5 mins? It is getting checked out next week, I just want to prepare myself as I have heard differing stories.

Any replies/help would be appreciated.

Simon

[peterbo3]

Did you run out of the water with no muffs? If so, you will most likely be up for a complete new water pump. As for the no oil issue, damage could be a lot or less, to paraphrase the Rivers ad. I would prepare for the absolute worst. Reason is that anything less will be a bonus.

[simon_vaughan]

I ran the motor with muffs and water running and there was water coming out the telltale.

I'm guessing the absolute worst is a re-build??

[Triple]

First thing.. Fill with oil ( or maybe even do a oil flush for any metal shavings) and do a compression test and go from there. If comp is in spec then start her up and
listen for any abnormal noises to investigate. As said "prepare for the worst and anything less is a bonus". If you have already worked out the import process then a new power head from the US might be on the cards.

[juggernaut]

Do these things have an oil pressure alarm as no oil on the dipstick may not mean no oil was circulating.

[SWANY22]

thats what ya warning lites for to let you know before to much damage is done .i think you will be all right,go to a factory and see how they test new motors i will open ya eyes

[Triple]

Yeah was thinking too, surely there must be a low oil level or low pressure alarm? Might be a bit factory shipping oil in it. But don't they have to ship them completely empty of all fluids? Either way you don't need to follow the run in procedure now to bed it in..

[Mattya]

You'll be fine if you turned it off as soon as the alarm came on. That's what it's for. If its new I'm surprised it didn't have a tag on it stating it had no oil.

[simon_vaughan]

Thanks for the replies - kicking myself now, such an oversight on my part! Hope you are right Swany - it is heading up to Stones Corner on Tuesday for them to give it a once over before I take it on the water (haven't even been out in it yet). It was only running at idle and for not very long so here's hoping! Expect the worst and hope for the best!

[SHOOTER1]

"I did the import thing" I wouldn't expect any favours from the local bloke. Rightly so I say.

[myusernam]

Claim it on insurance if it's fubar

[simon_vaughan]

Yeh you are right Shooter - buying my last 3 Yamahas off Stones Corner and getting them all serviced there for the last 10 years (even though I could go to closer establishments) counts for nothing. I'm glad some people on this thread are perfect and don't make mistakes.

[robothefisho]

I don't understand why local blokes wouldn't help anyone just because they imported a motor or boat/motor. Most of the money in an outboard is for return servicing, so most dealers would still be keen to get the business.

As for damage, you might be lucky if the motor has been test run before there may have been enough residual oil on things like bearings to have saved them. However the bore may be a bit worse for wear along with rings. I imagine pistons would still be ok. Panick after you do things like pulling spark plugs and inspecting. Do a compression test etc. If all is in order I would do another oil change after running for an hour or so incase things have accelerated wear.

[Shark Poker]

From my experience working in outboard servicing, the worst situation that you can be in is to find a problem on a Saturday and then have all weekend to stew on it, knowing that you will have to ask for help on Monday and then not get a proper answer until maybe Wednesday....
May I say just chill out, surely you did not run it for long, and it is a Yammy after all.
I am sure you two will be ok.
Pauly

[MrNanks]

Good luck mate. I can't believe some of the comments here. I am fairly surprised.
So many perfect skippers.
Good on you for posting your concerns and mistake.
I agree with Fatbouy. Take a chill pill and hope for good news next week.

Cheers Dave

[wrxhoon]

Are you sure the engine doesn't have any oil in it at all? It could have plenty in it , just not showing on the dipstick.
If no oil in it at all you could have damaged the bearings, crank and or bore/rings on the bottom end and the camshafts on the head.
The extend of damage will depend on how long you ran the engine and at what RPM.
If the engine is brand new and the overheat alarm went on it means she got hot due to lack of oil and piston rings picked up on the bore, if used engine my guess is she would have some oil in it and the reason for overheating more than likely is water pump.
If the later it's less likely that you have damage.

If you top the oil up until on the full mark on the dipstick take note how much oil she takes then you will know if she had oil in the crankcase.
If you can do a compression test and a leakdown test you should know how much damage the bore has if any, comp test alone will not be conclusive. comp and leakdown test will not tell you if you have damaged the crank and bearings.

Good luck with it and let us know the outcome.

[Gon Fishun]

I know nothing about 4 st Yammies, but is it possible to insert a long skinny thing ( be nice) longer than the dip stick, coat hanger maybe? in the dip tube to see if there is any or nothing in the sump. Might , ( would) be nice to ease the anxiety.

[SWANY22]

i know with mx bikes when they design motors no run in just kick over a hold flat out dont blow in a minute shes all good.

[myusernam]

probably no oil because of international shipping regs. none in gearbox either. no grease also

[rayken1938]

I would venture to say that the cause of the overheating would be the dry bores.
Bearings and cams should be ok as they are assembled with oil. You will just have to wait for SCM to have a look at it. Probably the first thing that they will do is a visual inspection of the bores with a borescope to see if there is any damage to the bores. If they appear ok then they will do compression test and blow down tests.
If all looks ok next thing is fire it up using flushing fluid ( Very light grade oil) and give motor good flush out and look for metal particles in the flushing fluid..
If they find problems then is time to make hard decision re a rebuild or replace.
Hope all goes well and I am disgusted with some of the smart arse comments made by others.
Please let us know how you get on.
Cheers
Ray

[Noelm]

Lots of maybes and negative response, the motor will have oil in the gearbox, and grease too, most ship with a small amount of oil in them, a "no oil" alarm should sound straight away, there is no pause before it alarms, if it did alarm 5mins later, then that is a whole separate problem!

[Noelm]

I forgot something, my "guess" would be, enough oil to let it run OK, but not enough water pressure for proper cooling.

[bobbyb]

I got every thing crossed 4 you mate.......

[Noelm]

OK, let's look at this from the owners perspective , he has a new boat, and, like all of us is bursting to give it a try, but also is nervous, scared about starting the new "toy", and in his state of anxiety, he starts it up, but has missed a step in not checking the engines "vital signs" it really is no different to forgetting to put the bungs in, forgetting to lock the coupling down, leaving the bait at home, we have all done "things" that looking back were obvious, but, as they say, hind sight is Wonderful thing. The deed has been done, and you can't turn back the clock, so, let's just try to help and be positive for the poor guy!

[simon_vaughan]

The boat goes in tomorrow at Stones Corner - finger crossed, will post result hopefully tomorrow night.

I must admit I didn't think such a stupid mistake would cause such a long thread!

Simon

[Dignity]

Simon, take out the argy-bargy and it is a relatively short thread, good luck on the outcome.

[tassjo]

not bad I only got a couple of dislikes ,yes we all make mistakes and learn from them the diff is if it was done at a workshop or marine shop it is covered under insurance. I mean you import a boat which you usually get it checked by a expert or someone in the know wouldn't you get things like motor/ trailer checked from a expert when it arrives.

[simon_vaughan]

Brand new Shane - hopefully all good. Some posts on here are giving me hope!

Simon

[ShaneC]

If I am rightly informed (and I may not be) the motor would have been factory run prior to being crated. So it would have had to have some lubrication in it at some stage that may not all have been drained. I'd be interested to see how much oil goes in them before showing up on the dipstick, by the time I service mine and find that out you'll have the answer to what, if any, damage has happened with yours though. I'm a tad surprised the alarm didn't sound straight away though if the oil was that low. My oil alarms sound after every oil change when I service them and start them up, but alarm goes off after a second or so, I've just always thought that's what they're supposed to do but who knows. Best of luck matey.

[WalrusLike]

I am somewhat saddened to see a slight hiccup in the generally helpful nature of this forum. Normal service will resume shortly???

Jeez we all make mistakes.... :)

Simon I don't know how it's going to go, but I really hope it's fine. The blokes at Stones Corner seem to know what they are doing, so its going to be in good hands.

Please do post the result because as unfortunate as your incident was.... it's going to be interesting to find out the answer.

My bet is that it will be fine.... But I know bugger all, so that's more a hope and a guess than anything else. Good luck to you.



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[Noelm]

Now that all the insults and crap has died down, We need just a little more info, did the motor make some serious ticking, clacking, knocking noises before the alarm sounded? Does the motor still turn over on the starter? The answer to those two things might put your mind at ease.

[bigjimg]

Bugger.An honest oversight, hey we're only human. I hope the best for you. Wasn't the Cobia walkaround on an alloy trailer was it? Saw one at the Port (Grain wharf) on Friday.Jim

[simon_vaughan]

No noises out of the usual, this is my second 150hp yammy, basically sounded normal. Didn't try to turn it over again after alarm.

It is a Key West CC.


Simon

[dadstinny]

No noises out of the usual, this is my second 150hp yammy, basically sounded normal. Didn't try to turn it over again after alarm.

It is a Key West CC.


Simon

So was there any oil in it all?

Or was the dip stick bone dry?

[simon_vaughan]

The dipstick was dry, I'm hoping for some residual oil that may have been there from factory testing.

[dadstinny]

The dipstick was dry, I'm hoping for some residual oil that may have been there from factory testing.

Interesting, did you try and get something a bit longer than the dipstick to check for residual?

As others have mentioned don't stress out on it what's done is done.

My fingers are crossed for a good outcome.

Keep us updated!

[Mattya]

C'mon just top the oil up and run her. We're all dying to hear a good outcome.

[WalrusLike]

This brings to mind something my late father-in-law said one day.....

He had for a while the BP(?) at Normanton up there in the Gulf.

Near Xmas and temperatures up there in the mid unbelievables and a loaded down dusty car pulls in with Victorian plates. Doug gets him to pop the bonnet and does the normal checks. When he pulls the dipstick there was bugger all showing on it.... (Not sure if completely dry or almost).

Doug shakes his head at the bloke and says "Jeez mate you need a longer dipstick...."

To my amazement the bloke says "You got one?" :)

[wrxhoon]

I hope she has some oil in the crankcase, enough for the oil pick up to pick oil for the pump. If the engine is upright you only need about a lt of oil for the pick up to work. The fact that a new engine with a new water pump overheated is not a good sign .

[TREVELLY]

Sorry Ray, but I don't think you will be seen as the victim here. I too am surprised with your post as I have found you very helpful, polite and accommodating in the past - I would have put it down to a fopaux.

Good luck with the motor - do agree I would have taken the drain plug to see if any oil in motor.

Please keep us informed - it is an important "peace of mind" should some other poor unfortunate do the same as it will become a reference for a future event.

And yes I agree that the service boys do alright out of this work at $500 plus a time for regular services so you will be looked after so you return for more in future, they aren't silly to go on some ridiculous "you bought it elsewhere OS so we won't help you" thing. This is really more the sort of advice you will get from the parent importer looking after their market and just saying you will get no support from them such as I have seen the Suzuki brand advertise - but fair enough too you import so they wont Warranty - no scary thing in my mind.

The Stones Corner Yammi guys are keen on this type of work as I found them offering incentives at the boat show to service all brands of motors (not sure if they will dirty their hands on an etec though).

Good luck I hope the anxiety passes with a sigh of relief and a beer or three to celebrate, then you can get on with fishing and enjoying your new toy rather than stressing over it. :beer:

They are a bugger these boats aren't they :)

[WalrusLike]

This brings to mind something my late father-in-law said one day.....

.....

Oh.... I just realised you guys may misunderstand my meaning.... This was just a recollection of my late father-in-laws sense of humour.

I definitely don't intend it as criticism of your mistake Simon. Any of us can make a furphy at any time. I make more than most. :)

Good luck with it.


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[TREVELLY]

Yep that's what ol Jed Clampert woulda said ;)

Damn that was a good show - stuffed if I could see why no one wanted to get onto Ellie-May either - even as a prepubesant lad I thought she was HOT :o

[Rooky25]

A Kid with a new toy, simply a mistake, overlooked all the checks,
fingers crossed all is ok,

cheers

[Noelm]

So then.... no nasty noises, good sign, the over heat alarm( if that's what it was) could well have come from limited water pressure, seen that a thousand times, we need to know if it still turns over OK, a no oil will be a miracle if it set off an over heat alarm, the motor seizes tight before there is enough heat to trigger an alarm, and a no oil will sound straight away (we hope) still lots of maybes and perhaps to make a better "guess"

[morphias]

And yes I agree that the service boys do alright out of this work at $500 plus a time for regular services so you will be looked after so you return for more in future, they aren't silly to go on some ridiculous "you bought it elsewhere OS so we won't help you" thing. This is really more the sort of advice you will get from the parent importer looking after their market and just saying you will get no support from them such as I have seen the Suzuki brand advertise - but fair enough too you import so they wont Warranty - no scary thing in my mind.

Just a minor (major) correction on this, Suzuki stated they will provide full services for imported motors without issue - you just won't get warranty.

Hope every comes out OK Simon.

I spent a year fully rebuilding an Italian motocycle and on the day I finished installing the wiring loom, I decided to fire her up - everything went perfect for about 2mins till black smoke flames started coming from near the rear cylinder! I thought the worst and when the bike had cooled enough for me to take a look, I found that I had not properly secured the block that contained the resistor for the side-stand cutout and it had dangled down on to the rear header (which is red hot) and had melted and then caught fire.

Thankfully it was a simple task for me to manufacture a new one, but it taught me a valuable lesson. After being so meticulous through the entire build, I let excitement to hear my beautiful v-twin running and made a mistake - we all make mistakes because we are all human. It taught me a valuable lesson - when you get over-excited, stop, settle down, recheck everything and then proceed.

Fingers crossed mate - I'm sure it will be fine if the Yamaha plasma bores are half as good as they say and ignore the nay-sayers. :)

Coxy out...

[TREVELLY]

Just a minor (major) correction on this, Suzuki stated they will provide full services for imported motors without issue - you just won't get warranty.

Sorry but the support I am talking about is the Warranty - I see services and spare parts not as support but selling a product such as labour and parts which is not an impost on the importer.

You can take the motor to any dealer including taking a Suzuki to a Yamaha dealer service workshop and still get service and Suzuki spare parts and all this has absolutely nothing to do with the importer.

Anyway splitting hairs but yes self import gives no local warranty.

[simon_vaughan]

Thanks for all of the replies- turns out there was some oil in it. SCM put it on the laptop with no issues showing - they said that the big yammies don't like ear muffs much so it was probably a temp issue from that.

Now for a big sigh of relief!!!!

Simon

[juggernaut]

Great to here - I thought if the oil pressure alarm didn't sound you'd have a chance even though no oil showing on the dipstick.

[netmaker]

good stuff - bet it wont happen again too!

[royslaven]

Thanks for all of the replies- turns out there was some oil in it. SCM put it on the laptop with no issues showing - they said that the big yammies don't like ear muffs much so it was probably a temp issue from that.

Now for a big sigh of relief!!!!

Simon
I cannn,t believe it , after all that hullabaloo , simon, you sure have got a lot to answer for !, nah , just kidding, really good outcome mate.
Gee yamaha,s are good..... ha ....roy.

[Todddo]

Holy hell you are one lucky bugger! Get fishing and start posting up some reports :)
Glad it all worked out, as Netmaker said I'm sure it wont happen again lol.

[Dignity]

Great news and no doubt you will sleep well tonight. They are a great motor as I have the same one and my only regret is that I didn't get one long before I did.

[cobiaman]

Good thing its a yammy and not a suzi,....

[Noelm]

Nothing to do with any early warning system, the engine ships with SOME oil, the alarm was from lack of water pressure.

[WalrusLike]

Great news Simon. Thanks for sharing...

Did they detect any metal in oil or wear? Did they look in the bores?

I think maybe it would be wise to treat her to a change of oil or two a bit more frequently than normal until you are comfy with her condition, and have made it up to her for your neglect....

:)


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[Shark Poker]

Let it go, Ray.
It was not your best post, and it took attention away from the worst contributor I have seen on this forum.
Personally I am not 100% confident with the reports from SCM, and I think a couple of us should volunteer to go for a run with Simon this Saturday, help him get back his confidence by running a few hrs up, maybe go to Harrys, and on to the sand hills....

[solemandownunder]

Let it go, Ray.
It was not your best post, and it took attention away from the worst contributor I have seen on this forum.
Personally I am not 100% confident with the reports from SCM, and I think a couple of us should volunteer to go for a run with Simon this Saturday, help him get back his confidence by running a few hrs up, maybe go to Harrys, and on to the sand hills....

Ok....fair enough & as a sign of good faith ( be it wrong or right ) I will jump in me lil tinny and man up for a test to help Simons' cause.

Cheers, Ray.

[TREVELLY]

Ok....fair enough & as a sign of good faith ( be it wrong or right ) I will jump in me lil tinny and man up for a test to help Simons' cause.
Cheers, Ray.

You are a character Ray :)

I think I will move on from this thread.

Great to hear a positive outcome on the outboard - I hope and expect the test run to be a mere formality - cheers to that :beer:

[banksmister]

Good news
BTW : Someone should start a thread about “how good Yamaha’s are”

[Spaniard_King]

Seems a few odd bits that don't compute for me.

Did the oil alarm sound or the over heat alarm?

Does Yamaha not have a watchdog system to shut the engine down to safeguard the engine in the even of either of the above?

The first thing to go in a low oil situation is the crank thrust washers not bores and bearings. did scm measure the thrust washer clearance ??

[Horse]

A great outcome and a couple of real tossers have been exposed for what they are. A win win situation from what I can see

[WalrusLike]

Simon make sure you read Spaniard Kings post.... he really, really, does know what he is on about.


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[no chicken tonight]

I know a bit about engines in an automotive app, but in an outboard, do they have a low oil level alarm or low oil pressure alarm as in cars? Either way, if no oil alarm sounded, you did not have a problem, provided of coarse the alarm was operational.

[solemandownunder]

I am shamefaced here and would not only like to apologise to Simon, but also all the other posters here.

NOT that this is any excuse, but We had just gone through a rather stupid/senseless episode with one of our clients NOT disimilar in outcome and took it out on you guys.

I offer my sincere apology to all for my lack of feeling and poor manners with the way I posted and acted in this thread and make NO excuses for being the idiot i was.

Thank you, Ray.

[cormorant]

four stroke owners and putting oil in Sheesh

Just watch the instructional video. It ain't that hard is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6x1iK-XY8


Hope your motor is OK but I would really want to determine which alarm went off and solution to yammi won't run on muffs furphy.

[TREVELLY]

four stroke owners and putting oil in Sheesh

Just watch the instructional video. It ain't that hard is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6x1iK-XY8

A Honda and it's owner :D

[no chicken tonight]

first of all, hondas dont need oil top ups between services.
secondly, you all give soleman a hard time for being mean, then you all make fun of this poor lady!
But I almost fell off my chair laughing

[boboncc]

Something similar to the above video. A mate of mine a few years ago bought his wife a new Golf, she got some petrol and decided to check the water and found it needed some, so she put some water in where she checked, in the OIL Filler Cap!!!!!!!!!! It only went about 100m before the engine stopped.

[no chicken tonight]

after reading all this, I just asked my wife to show me how to top up the oil level, to see if she is capable. She found the filler cap ok, but when I asked her how much to put in, she said "until it is full" (poor petal)
I think we should all take this oportunity to show our partners how to check oil and water levels,

[simon_vaughan]

Hi Everyone

I failed to mention that there was nothing in the oil (metal filings etc) so it all seems good. The boys at SCM went over it thoroughly and nothing out of the ordinary was detected. It will hopefully have its maiden voyage on Saturday down the Southern Bay and Pin.


Simon

[boboncc]

Hi Simon, great news and enjoy your boat's maiden voyage!

Cheers
Bob

[WalrusLike]

Can I come? How many maidens will you have?


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[Dignity]

Seems a few odd bits that don't compute for me.

Did the oil alarm sound or the over heat alarm?

Does Yamaha not have a watchdog system to shut the engine down to safeguard the engine in the even of either of the above?

The first thing to go in a low oil situation is the crank thrust washers not bores and bearings. did scm measure the thrust washer clearance ??

Guys, SMC would/should have connected their laptop to the motor and it would have indicated which alarm went off. I just had mine serviced today by the trusty Ken Lewis and he could tell me everything my motor has done by reviewing the data. I can imagine though that Simon was breathing such a huge sigh of relief on hearing the news that everything after "she's ok mate" was lost on him.