Boaties in Trouble again

[Spaniard_King]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/06/22/453421_gold-coast-news.html

near miss in Currumbin Alley, we got the surfers story I suppose his is the only side worth hearing::)

[marto78]

It seems to be a common occurrence on that bar, glad no one was injured.

The idea of boaties having to sound a horn before crossing the bar seems like a good one to me.

[Shark Poker]

" struck his surfboard and took out a big chunk, before the skipper kept on going out to sea."
That's the spirit. Surfy is Ok, lets go fishing!
People are swimming in a boat channel.

[Spaniard_King]

I think surfers need to wear nav lights if they are there in low light too :)

i.e navigation hazard8-)

[astro66]

lol im a surfer and a boater as if you would be anywere in the way....would you paddle a skate board over the m1 ....

[honda900]

I think surfers need to wear nav lights if they are there in low light too :)

i.e navigation hazard8-)


They should in the seaway, very hard to see against the sunrise..

Regards
Honda.

[WalrusLike]

Typical that simplistic solutions are offered....

"Sound a horn"..., so how does that help? All the surfers in earshot then depart? In what direction? How long will that take? How does the boatie know its all clear? Who says the boatie has the right to move the surfers on?

Ah... I see... after sounding horn he looks around... just like he was before...,

Fact is that if you lay down on a low vis platform in a moving sea then you better do it where there aren't boats.

Fact is that if you motor on through a surfing area you'd better do it slowly with a good watch out for hidden surfers.

More regulations wont fix an issue like this... only common sense will help. Pity it's in short supply.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

[WalrusLike]

Oh... and lastly....

boating and surfing have risks.... don't take them if you don't like them.

It's sad to see someone hurt doing something they love but nothing worth doing is risk free.

Maybe a sign on the bar entrance saying "Caution low lying surfers". But I hate signs... there's way too many already.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

[Roughasguts]

Pretty easy solution really Surfers need to have a flag on a pole bolted to there boards, like divers, or 4WD's do in sand hills. Also a high visibility vest! and sound an Air horn every few minutes. Ofcourse it wouldn't hurt to register there board have the numbers clearly visible and pay high premiums for self bodily injury.
Cheers

[wayno60]

Last wed arvo coming back in the seaway i had two different boats head in my direction to tell me there were surfers paddling across the seaway...black steamer wet suits, down low,and the boards are even under the water, the only way i seen them was with the last bit of glow from the sun, i could just make out siloutes...I really hope when it does happen people dont acting all surprised.....

[WalrusLike]

Simply require a minimum equipment level on all seaway going boats of a 20 foot observation tower equipped with IR screen and/or 2(b) goggles.

Of course boats over 3.7m will require a pilot on board for the crossing trip.

Naturally each surfer will be equipped with a hovering strobe-lit autonomous self tracking drone.

Problem sorted.

Or..... we could all just be as careful as possible and just take our chances.

In truth, I feel a bit bad as I write this because it feels like tempting fate... but they need to cross the seaway, and we need to motor through it. Short of invading everyone lives with more regulations and petty silliness, theres not much to be done about it.

We should just enjoy our respective activities and be as careful as possible, trying to look out for our fellow water lovers, as we take these inevitable risks.




(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

[Scalem]

I did a thread on this a few years ago as a result of spending an hour or two with VMR in the tower. Why? To gain knowledge of the bar before attempting to use it. While I have not yet crossed it myself the following are facts.

The bar is not marked with channel markers, but local knowledge shows that skippers who follow the north wall area out through the breakers have one of the best approaches to safely traversing the bar. One of those reasons is that the majority of surfers don't use this area. It's because on the return trip skippers cut across the face of the bar from a southern approach which is the area frequently used buy surfers. 9 times out of 10 this would be because that is the direction of the wind and swell where skippers will want to follow waves in the same direction they are moving. Unfortunately this often puts them right in the path of the area surfers use the most, but I can only say what is obvious to me.

My visit to spend time with VMR was very well received, all staff were greatfull to have a visitor where apparently visitors are rare. If you dont know the bar yourself it seemed a logical choice to see it from rhe best vantage point, the VMR tower. 9 out of 10 skippers did not log into VMR and on the occasion of my visit one skipper ripped through the middle of the surfing crowd when conditions were a millpond and you could have used any approach to the bar safely. His rego was reported to police.

As with anything ( including the seaway which is a disaster waiting to happen) common sense seems to leave both skippers and surfers alike. Sharing of these areas needs responsible and logical approach. Too bad many users don't share responsibly, skippers rip through areas used by surfers and surfers often are not highly visible.

Scalem

[Spaniard_King]

Scalem, this is not about the seaway, Currumbin has nothing in common when it comes to this scenario

[fishing111]

Maybe another way to go to get the point across to surfers regarding there visibility / safety is to get a bunch of surfers and take them out on a boat and do a bar crossing while others are surfing. Let the surfers see just how hard they are to spot, as sometimes all the talk in the world will not influence some who are of the belief that they can see you, therefore you can see them. I don't think that all surfers are ignorant to the danger, however some really don't understand what damage a tinny can do to someone, let alone a boat of 2 tonnes or more.

[stevej]

surfing is a militant sub culture of our society thugs in some areas of sydney
i doubt they would listen or comply with anything that goes against their rights to surf where they want

[Moonlighter]

Seems to me that the law must be clarified so that surfers must give way to power boats in bar areas and in fact in any navigable channels.

This would then bring them into line with the principles underpinning the rules that small boats give way to big ships in shipping channels, and power boats give way to sail in narrow channels.

There are reasons for these rules, it is about how vessels maneuver, and how easily the larger vessels can change course, stop, and how easily the larger ships can even see small power boats. And what will happen to the larger or less maneuverable vessels if they are forced to try to avoid the smaller vessels.

Grounding, broaching, capsizing etc are clearly the potential consequences for the larger vessels in such circumstances. No such consequences arise for the surfers. So they must be the ones to give way.

Bottom line: The implications for a power boat of stopping, slowing, or changing course in a bar area are far more significant than for a surfer on a board.

Therefore, the law should be changed to make it clear that the surfer/surfboard has to not only give way, but has to operate in such waters with great awareness and in acceptance of the risks that "riding their skateboard on the M1" brings.

That should sort out the legalities.

But it still leaves everyone having to use common sense and for skippers to observe their general safety obligation. Keep watch. Be alert. Don't put your vessel or crew at risk.

Like just about everyone else, we have had near misses in the GC seaway, in the dark and near dark conditions, and also when at times, the sun is low and directly in your eyes, and you are trying the watch the waves ahead and the waves behind you.

Then these tossers in their black wetsuits, no lights, almost invisible between waves, think that they can paddle across in front of you and you have to somehow see and avoid them - they must be kidding. They suggest we go thru at 4 knots so we dont run them over? Do they have any idea of how fast a wave travels and how quockly it will catch you and break into your transom at that speed?

Rant over.

[ifishcq1]

I think SteveJ is only joking
surely
otherwise he still lives in the 50s

[Giffo65]

I just had a read of this,hope the link works.Crossing Currumbin bar in the Mackeral season can be a nightmare with having to look for surfers,watch the swell and look for thr channel.I chose to use Tallebudgerra more often as there is less surfers, but is a worse bar to cross at times.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=navigable%20bars%20in%20qld&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msq.qld.gov.au%2F~%2Fmedia%2F msqinternet%2Fmsqfiles%2Fhome%2Fpublications%2Fcur rumbin%2520creek%2Fcurrumbin_creek_safety_mgment.p df&ei=0HjGUemvB4inkgWI_oDoBA&usg=AFQjCNFCwqMeQOu_arBuiuhh5EM1P9J8qg

[cobiaman]

I think he is only joking ^^^
surely
otherwise he still lives in the 50s

Whats the problem with what was said?
I agree completely with moonlighter...

[spelchek]

Hiya Giffo - just noticed a new boat in your avatar - got rid of the milk bottle, mate? What did you go for as a replacement?

[ifishcq1]

Whats the problem with what was said?
I agree completely with moonlighter...

Yep Cobiaman, you are right
Moonlighter and I posted at the same time, I was talking about the stevej post not the moonlighter post ;)

[cobiaman]

All good!!!!

[Triple]

Just make this compulsory for surfers near bar crossings -
http://youtu.be/f2HoZ4cU1r4

And make em aware they can do this -
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=led+surfboard&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=xZfGUdSdHqjmiAeo34CwBg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=416

;)

[oldie]

The alley is a surf break always has been always will be and yes its also a bar/inlet with access to the ocean, your never going to be able to stop people surfing there, I think you'll find the problem is there are just so many more people taking up surfing and also Boating and using this area to enjoy their pass time so these cases will be heard about more.

I am sure surfers don't want to ban Boaters from the area so Boaters should not be wishing to Ban surfers from the area!

At what point does it become a navigable channel? Inside the mouth I'd expect after that it would be classed as open water?

Signs just need to be erected at the Carpark making new surfers to the area aware that they share the line up with crossing vessels so to be aware at all times and maybe a couple of tips how to avoid being injured by a passing boat,

The seaway is a different kettle of fish, what about the people who Dive in the tweed bar with no flags? i've gone over the top of a couple over the last 18 months only seeing the bubbles at the last minute?!

A bit of education and common sense from both Surfers and Boaters would help, I know majority of people who surf also fish!

[Spaniard_King]

What classification would you have for surfers who enter the water before sun up and surf across a boat/bar/ocean access point?

I think we need Sat Nav on this one :)

[oldie]

Its called Dawn Patrol!!

[Moonlighter]

Garry

I'd call them Candidates for a darwin award. Or, organ donors.

Or, both :)

[monkey76]

you blokes have obviously never surfed before, most surfers give boaties the right of way, its the small minority that wrecks it for both sides. Further to this the ocean belongs to everyone so if the majority respect this then why are we bagging each other!! i understand the complexities of crossing a bar but equally don't understand the situation where the water can't be shared

[cobiaman]

you blokes have obviously never surfed before, most surfers give boaties the right of way, its the small minority that wrecks it for both sides. Further to this the ocean belongs to everyone so if the majority respect this then why are we bagging each other!! i understand the complexities of crossing a bar but equally don't understand the situation where the water can't be shared

I fail to see how boaties and surfers can share the channel out the bar. Once your committed to crossing the bar, you cant just slow down to 6 knots or stop and wait for a surfer to paddle out of the way. Boats need to have right of way or surfers need to be banned from the bar channel areas.

[monkey76]

I fail to see how boaties and surfers can share the channel out the bar. Once your committed to crossing the bar, you cant just slow down to 6 knots or stop and wait for a surfer to paddle out of the way. Boats need to have right of way or surfers need to be banned from the bar channel areas.

agree i don't want a suffer hit and or a boa tie hit a surfer, i am saying the water is for everyone and everyone should respect what they are doing in the water. this thread instead has turned into a surfer bashing thread with in unformed comments. Cobiaman i agree with you but the surfer will argue where is the chanel that they can't be in? good point as sometimes crossing a bar can mean going outside the normal route. I think to solve this situation a simple horn sound before the boat leaves and enters will do the job, they use it in byron successfully and there are more suffers in the pass and more backpackers prenteding they are surfers in the pass and this system works

[Giffo65]

Monkey76

Have you seen or crossed Currumbin bar, it changes on a daily basis, there is no main channel to stay out of for surfers. It is like Coles carpark at times in the summer, and as Cobiaman said, once you are committed in a boat on the bar you gotta go. We cannot duck dive the next set in a boat. I am always vigilant when crossing there, but boats must have right of way !

[Spaniard_King]

Monkey,

I Know the situation is a difficult one... my gripe is you cant see a surfer in low light or sometimes in broken water. If they cant be seen then they leave themselves open to injury and possibly death.

Surfers think we should slow to 6 knots when within 30m of them, Whats your opinion on this when crossing a bar with a normal swell of 1-2m running?

[oldie]

like in byron, horn blows surfers are aware boat is crossing and its time to be vigilant! this can work and has proven to work at one of the most busiest surf breaks in the country.

[oldie]

and I surf and i would not expect a boat to slow to 6knots in a dangerous situation like a bar crossing and especially at the alley, in saying that i own an offshore boat and understand the situation and would look to keep an eye on anyone about to cross the break/bar. I enjoy watching them cross so would never be in the current channel or crossing track/route,

[oldie]

I also dont paddle across the seaway cos its stupid and too far! i take my boat or a mates ski

[wags on the water]

agree i don't want a suffer hit and or a boa tie hit a surfer, i am saying the water is for everyone and everyone should respect what they are doing in the water. this thread instead has turned into a surfer bashing thread with in unformed comments. Cobiaman i agree with you but the surfer will argue where is the chanel that they can't be in? good point as sometimes crossing a bar can mean going outside the normal route. I think to solve this situation a simple horn sound before the boat leaves and enters will do the job, they use it in byron successfully and there are more suffers in the pass and more backpackers prenteding they are surfers in the pass and this system works


If I'm required to put navigation lights on a kayak for travelling at first light and at dusk, then these surfers crossing either the seaway or any passage of water, should do the same - if you say this is too much trouble or you can't do it - STIFF SH!T. Surfer basher I hear you say .....quite possibly and not afraid to say it. I hear you say common sense should prevail for boaties - so what about you guys/gals paddling in low light? Now about boaties heading back into the bar....How can the skipper see anything on the other side of a wave???? How many times should one boat sound this horn????

Surfers don't need to cross the seaway as posted on page 1 - they would like to.

[JulianDeMarchi]

If I'm required to put navigation lights on a kayak for travelling at first light and at dusk, then these surfers crossing either the seaway or any passage of water, should do the same - if you say this is too much trouble or you can't do it - STIFF SH!T. Surfer basher I hear you say .....quite possibly and not afraid to say it. I hear you say common sense should prevail for boaties - so what about you guys/gals paddling in low light? Now about boaties heading back into the bar....How can the skipper see anything on the other side of a wave???? How many times should one boat sound this horn????

Surfers don't need to cross the seaway as posted on page 1 - they would like to.

I've seen a surf taxi operate at the seaway. It's the perfect solution for those wishing to surf the otherside! :)

[lbger]

Its scary going out the seaway sometimes in the predawn, surfers paddling across to Straddy, the taxi costs 5 bucks! I also surf over there sometimes but take the boat its just to dangerous i think.. at currumbin how can you slow down to 6knots when traversing the bar and swell?? There isn't a solution really its just the way it is and there will be accidents from time to time.. I just cant believe more people don't get run over in the seaway..

[banksmister]

Compulsory drug tests for any surfer wanting to paddle across :o
That should half the numbers crossing.




From the GC bulletin

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/06/26/453554_gold-coast-news.html


Surf safety on Currumbin Alley agenda

BURLEIGH MP Michael Hart is organising a surf safety summit to find solutions to the clashes between surfers and boaties at Currumbin Alley.
Mr Hart is organising the meeting for next month and has vowed to ensure senior representatives from the Department of Transport and water police are there, along with the Member for Currumbin, Jann Stuckey.
''I understand that people are very frustrated and that we need to move quickly on this,'' he said.
The idea for a surf safety summit was put forward by Mr Hart when Surfrider Foundation treasurer Chris Butler tried to hijack a meeting on Monday, held to discuss dredging of Tallebudgera and Currumbin creeks.
Mr Butler said yesterday surfers were sick of the Government passing the buck on the problems.
''No one wants to take responsibility for what is happening at Currumbin Alley,'' he said.
''Jann Stuckey accused the previous government of having its head in the sand on the issues.
''But she has done the same thing.
''So I hope this meeting will be the beginning of finding some solutions for the whole thing.''
Ms Stuckey had also agreed to a meeting with Mr Butler on Friday.
Gold Coast Surf Council co-chairman Brad Farmer said the summit offered the chance to finally put some solutions in place, but the right people needed to be at the meeting or there was a risk it could just be a talkfest.
''The people at the meeting need to be senior enough to make decisions or there is a risk it could be a waste of everyone's time,'' he said.
Local councillor Chris Robbins said action was needed.
Surfers are lobbying for more patrols by water police or Queensland Transport officers to stop boaties exceeding the six-knot limit, and have suggested boats could be made to sound horns when coming out of the Currumbin Creek mouth.

[Shark Poker]

If all boats towed a couple lures across the seaway and bars, this problem would go away.

[Crocodile]

Hello All,

please take a deep breath and act very carefully on this issue.

I am a regular user of Currumbin as a boatie and as a swimmer, I don't surf, too old and infirm.
There can be no doubt that trouble is brewing.
Many surfers that I know say "Ban the boats".
Ask yourself the question, how many boaties and how many surfers?
If push comes to shove, boaties are going to loose simply because they are outnumbered.

Do not seek confrontation on this issue.

[thelump]

Hello All,

please take a deep breath and act very carefully on this issue.

I am a regular user of Currumbin as a boatie and as a swimmer, I don't surf, too old and infirm.
There can be no doubt that trouble is brewing.
Many surfers that I know say "Ban the boats".
Ask yourself the question, how many boaties and how many surfers?
If push comes to shove, boaties are going to loose simply because they are outnumbered.

Do not seek confrontation on this issue.

Very good point Crocodile. The alley is primarily a surf spot but makes for quicker access to Palmie for boaties. I am afraid if push come to shove the surfers would out number the boaties and cause grief. They would have a pretty good argument that there are other options for boaties like the purpose built seaway or tweed bar for them to access the ocean. I think the horn idea has merit but you will never stop beginner surfers from getting confused and in the way.

[Bill_Corten]

Have been following this thread with interest as I still enjoy a paddle on the mal at the Alley and spend lots of time crossing bars in boats, so can see it from both sides. Crocodile and thelump seem to be hitting the mark nicely and confrontation usually ends in one party worse off than the other.
Clearly Currumbin Alley is a popular waterway and as a bar only offers limited access and is subject to constant change. My my pet hate is rules being put in place to favour one conflicting sector, usually to the disadvantage of the other and that seems to happen too often when Councillors and pollies weigh into arguments they have no expertise with.
The risks to surfers and the consequences for boaties as a result of a collision with surfers are high and as a responsible boat operator I would be careful and do everything reasonable to make sure I could clearly see everyone in my path if heading out through there. In the event of a collision in a low light situation while heading out where boat speed is involved in chopping surfer while avoiding a wave, I would hate to be the driver. Conversely I have seen some jet ski riders and boat operators coming home to the entrance virtually charging through surfers, giving all of us a bad name in the eyes of surfers and am amazed there haven't been more incidents.
A steady approach making plenty of noise and sitting the boat high on the back of a swell where the surfers can see you and the boat driver has a good view ahead to make informed decisions would be far better.
Perhaps a code of practice for both parties to use the area collaboratively would be a good starting point rather than a confrontation leading to bans or way over the top rules and regulations .
that's my soap box for today.

Cheers
Bill

[deckie]

Put up signs saying "surfers and boaties use this area at own risk"
Then walk away, let people take responsibility for their own welfare and make their own decisions knowing the risks.
Otherwise its just a bitchfight over pseudo-ownership of public usage when everyone has rights.
Make people responsisble for their own safety, instead of wanting others to grant them exclusivity and/or immunity from risk.
Surfers also dont want beach fisho's in the good breaks. Boaties dont want to endanger their own safety to be careful of surfers. Will always be accidents, will always be whingers, and will always be those wanting zero risk and ownership of shared public space.
Fight the fights that can be won...wont matter what the solution there will still be accidents anyway.
If you arnt happy dont go there.

[Hagar]

The Gold Coast Bulletin story is only telling one side of the issue.I have been crossing this bar on and off for 25 years now.

A quote from that article .
'Gold Coast Surf Council chairman Dan Ware said the Government continued to sit on its hands and do nothing, while surfers reported a near-miss at the popular spot every week. Everyone who surfs at Currumbin Alley has a story to tell,'' he said.' Well Dan here is a story from the other side of the fence which I posted about some years ago.

Crossing back in just North of the Alley we were sitting on the shoulder of a largish cresting wave and saw a surfer to our left. We both made eye contact and I thought great he knows I am here now. Next thing that surfer stood up and catches the wave I am sitting on then wipes out in front of the boat and disappeares in the white water. Pulled the engine out of gear and only just spotted him off to our side as the wave behind us caught up. We were able to power on in luckily and avoided the endanger boat /crew or risk hitting the surfer decision.

My point - there are two sides to this issue. We should not have to fear sticking up for ourselves .If anything changes to help resolve it let the experts also consider how surfers can help by addressing their unsafe practices already mentioned here like 'dawn patrol' ', low light Seaway crossings and dropping in on a vessel twenty times your size. If you think any voluntary code of practice will work just talk to any surfer here about lack of respect,dropping in etc in Gold Coast surf breaks - thing of the past.

[fishing111]

Deckie make's a fair point there in my eyes. I mean I can ride my bike out the front of my joint on the road if I choose quite legally. However the risk is far to great for me, not because I can't ride a bike, but rather that I don't want to be cleaned up, as I have seen that many bike riders nearly clipped on the 20 cm shoulder that it isn't funny. So instead I ride my bike elsewhere, and from what I'm reading surfers seem to be making the same sort of arguments, so I would hope that they have chosen to do what I have done which is to find a safer spot.

[Spaniard_King]

In the event of a collision in a low light situation while heading out where boat speed is involved in chopping surfer while avoiding a wave, I would hate to be the driver. Conversely I have seen some jet ski riders and boat operators coming home to the entrance virtually charging through surfers, giving all of us a bad name in the eyes of surfers and am amazed there haven't been more incidents.
A steady approach making plenty of noise and sitting the boat high on the back of a swell where the surfers can see you and the boat driver has a good view ahead to make informed decisions would be far better.
Bill

Bill I have sat out the back of the alley many times trying to find a safe passage in. NO ONE moves for you, in fact they often take off on waves that you are coming in sitting behind. It is impossible to adhere to a 6 knot limit on that bar in breaking conditions.

Bill do you travel in your boat in low light conditions? Are you confident of seeing someone in the water in a black wetsuit? Many vessels cross this bar in the dark.

You are correct in saying no one wants to ever be in the situation of hitting someone in the water.

I have read recently where there has been no determination on the last fatal accident at the Alley where a surfer was killed, the authorities are still yet to determine if a surfer is a swimmer or a vessel.

[Bill_Corten]

Hi Garry

Very happy to respond as it is an interesting thread about an issue where there is no clear cut simple solution.
Firstly a personal opinion from a safety perspective, is that there should not be a 6 knot speed limit where there are breaking waves that a boat has to negotiate. From a boaties perspective it is just not a safe speed so we are singing from the same hymn book there mate.
When I travel in my boat in the dark or in low light conditions I do so in areas where there aren't people in the water. If I was traversing those areas I would be probably waiting a tad longer until I could see better if it was an interactive area where I was likely to encounter people in the water. Mind you those people have a responsibility to not endanger other waterway users by their actions too. The majority of them are quire ignorant as to the consequences of their actions and some of the ones that paddle across the Seaway are quite belligerent about it whenever chipped by someone.
This interaction thing is an area where a lot of common sense is required by both parties and as per the fatal you refer to, there is a lot riding on the outcome of it.
By the way, I do like the Byron solution and have gone out off that beach in boats in the past too and can see some benefits. It is not perfect, but a step in the right direction and a lot better than doing nothing.
Happy to discuss any time. 0447 233247

Cheers
Bill

[Moonlighter]

I agree Gary. I bear the surfers no malice, but there simply has to be a legislative response here that sets thing straight. We cant continue with a situation where no-one knows who has right of way. Or where navigable waters and access points are blocked off by one group at the pense of others.

Thats why i called for boats to get right of way. The surfers then will know that they have to move and to watch out when they are in areas where boats navigate. Boats still have to navigate with care to meet thier general safety obligation - there is no way around that.

Otherwise we leave it to the courts. I dont like that option.

The problem then is that it is well established that the courts will favor the injured party, espeially if the other party has insurance that can give the injured party a nice payout for their pain and suffering.

You see it all the time - the drunk walks out into the traffic at point blank range and gets run over, and the judge finds the driver was 20% or something responsible just so they can give the drunk some money. Poor bloody car driver gets a record, an increased insurance premium, for something that was never their fault.

Ask any lawyer and they will tell you thats what happens.

So legislation is needed.

[Spaniard_King]

Hi Bill,

yes we are on the same wave length.

My personal opinion is they need to make a decision of closing the bar to boats or not. Either way I am prepared to live with it, it's just too dangerous to co exist.

I cross the bar in the dark a fair bit (you can tell) I don't want to hit anyone or anything. I quite often got to the alley before sun up when I am not going to see the conditions... quite often several surfers are already in the water. Is a wave worth that much risk?

[tassjo]

Is a wave worth it, depends if your a surfer or a boatie. I ride a motor bike & leave early morning to try and avoid bicycle riders ,riding through the royal national park cranked over doing 60,70,or 80km around a corner you come across bicycle riders three wide. What do you do ,both off us are entitled to the same piece off road,learn to live with each other.

[Bill_Corten]

Hi Garry

Yes, you are spot on. The surfers just don't realise the risk they are taking in many respects. I for one would not be happy to see boats banned from the bar as it is not the answer.
It needs plenty of dialogue and effort by both parties to make it a safer place. There is a lot of logic in Moonlighter's comments.
Pity it took a death on the bar to bring it to a head and potentially wreck a good thing for a lot of guys who head out from there..

Cheers
Bill

[oldie]

only waves really worth it at the alley are when its too big for a boat to cross and more suited to Jet Ski only!

it is a mellow point break that anyone can get out to whether they are learning, riding a Surf Ski, paddle Board, Body Board, Surf Mat, Malibu, Kite Board, Sail Board, Kayak etc etc etc its a very busy and popular spot for Surf schools and just normal people wanting to get in the water, this is where its dangerous as most of these people don't really understand the boat crossing situation, most of the serious surfers and locals have dealt with an co existed with the situation for a long time,

Again there are so many more ocean going people these days, meaning boaters and novice surfers its no surprise that there is starting to be more issues. I don't think the WRITING OFF SURFERS attitude is needed as like boaters its always the minority that give the rest a bad name

[thelump]

Its a bloody tough one this. Coming from a surfing past I can see both sides. But I think that there in lies the problem. Not all surfers drive a boat and not all boaties surf, or used to. Education? Signage? Maybe? But you will still have that element who thinks they have more right to the bar, or a wave, than someone else. This will always cause issues!

[capt]

Great thread Gazzz,

Boats were making the bar crossing way before surfers came on the scene. This was prior to the 2 rock walls being built . One from the eastern car park to the rock (this was where the Alley was and where we usually surfed) and the other being the wall on the northern side of the creek. This work was done to create a safer boat crossing ( debatable whether this is always the case) and to stabilize the car parks and the area where the sand mining operation was. There was no issues back then.
Very few could have imagined how in time this work would create another super surf spot for the Gold Coast . The amount of water craft with people hanging off them on some days is unbelievable. Fortunately when the swell is up and crossing is more critical there is more experienced surfers and boaters in the water .

No one is bashing the surfers here and I am still one ( on a SUP these days, at least you can be seen ! ) One of the points Gary makes is how can we see the people in the water when we cross the bar in poor light (this is the only time I have come close to hitting someone in the water). LED lights as many have already had the common sense to use are great. Sounding a horn will also help.

As Lumpy mentioned this is a hard one . Let's hope common sense prevails and there is a positive result for all who enjoy this wonderful part of our coastline.

cheers Jimmy

[dogsbody]

Why not make it compulsory to wear hi vis rashy or similar if ya wanna surf where boat traffic traverses. Gotta help in a lot more situations other than at night.

[banksmister]

Update after the meeting
Sounds like the surfers went in kicking and screaming

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/06/29/453769_gold-coast-news.html

[oldie]

would of been more hot air at that meeting than a farting contest

[Crocodile]

Hello All,

Channel 7 was filming this morning.
Can someone watch the 7 news and see what is said.
They also filmed a boat going out, no lifejackets, not a good look for responsible boaties.

[Swanie1975]

so watching 7 news tonight and according to the surf rider foundation guy they interviewed (chris butler) " the biggest problem is just boaties who aren't paying attention, theyre just smashing thru the channel".:-?
yeah right chris im sure that's the biggest problem - what a :-X:-X:-X:-X:-X:-X tool.

I used Currumbin once early in the morn and had far too close a call for comfort with a paddling surfer I saw and avoided at the last second and I copped a mouthful for it. at least in the seaway theres usually more room to move.

good luck to all trying to find a positive solution for that area and one both sides can all live with.

cheers Ryan

[Gon Fishun]

Got it.

Boats sound a horn, 5 short blasts at intervals to be advised.
Boats already have nav lights, jackets and are sea worthy.

Surfers to have approved helmets, live vests and and a red flag 6ft high on rear or front of board.
Surfers restricted to use 1 hour after sunup and 1 hour before sunset. If surfing out of these hours, permit must be obtained and nav lights fitted as per regs.

The good bit, surfers are not required to pay any fees.
And remember, a boaty only needs one wave, :oops::angel:. Surfers have a life time of them.

Deliberately not numbered. I am a non conformist. 8-)

[WalrusLike]

I think I heard on a tv promo that surfers may be required to have reflective vests in low light conditions.

Huh? Are boats now using headlights? Computer gyroscopically controlled ones?


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