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Short Fuse
18-06-2013, 11:51 PM
Hi all.

Recently, one of our contributors posted that "1. An EPIRB should only be used when there is a threat of grave or imminent danger......". I can now report on a real life situation that shoots this theory down.

Two mates set out on Tuesday morning from Sarina to fish the day out near Pine Peak Island. Their boat is a very seaworthy one, recently fitted with a brand new outboard (less than 40 hours on the clock) and all equipment in good clean order. On the way out, somewhere north east of Double Island the motor had issues of a clearly terminal nature. Conditions were glass calm, but they were on the edge of the shipping lane so there was some concern about what to do. They were out of mobile phone range, and after trying to report their problems via radio were not getting any responses. They decided not to activate their Epirb due to the little sticker on the side stating that wrongful use would result in big fines etc.

They were due back at Sarina at 6pm. Family contacted the authorities reporting them as overdue at 9pm. We were contacted by Whitsunday Water Police after that to find out where they would have gone and the route most likely taken. A air search was started at midnight, and air sea rescue shortly afterwarads to follow the route they would have taken. During the course of the day and night, they set off 5 flares at times when they saw aircraft, or vessels in the distance. The last flare set off was sighted by both the chopper and a passing recreational boat. They were towed back to Sarina arriving nearly 24 hours after they should have.

During the debrief with Air Sea Rescue authorities and Whitsunday Water Police, they were told in no uncertain terms that they should have immediately activated their EPIRB, once they had ascertained that there was no possibility of restarting the motor, and they were out of mobile phone range, and were not getting any response to their radio calls. Doing this would have alerted the authorities and pinpointed their location, saving the costs of a 12 hour air and sea search, and had them safely back on shore nearly 24 hours earlier, saving a lot of worry and lost sleep for families, friends and rescue personnel, as well as monetary costs.

So simply put, if you do find yourself in this situation, and you cant get anyone to respond to radio calls, flares or other telecommunications devices, dont hesitate to use the Epirb. Thats what you carry them for, and it may just be the device that ensures you get home safely, and not end up as a report on the 6 o'clock news.

Jeff.

WalrusLike
19-06-2013, 06:10 AM
Thanks very much for that detailed and informative report.

Very good advice, Thanks again.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

solemandownunder
19-06-2013, 06:42 AM
Hi all.

Recently, one of our contributors posted that "1. An EPIRB should only be used when there is a threat of grave or imminent danger......". I can now report on a real life situation that shoots this theory down.

Two mates set out on Tuesday morning from Sarina to fish the day out near Pine Peak Island. Their boat is a very seaworthy one, recently fitted with a brand new outboard (less than 40 hours on the clock) and all equipment in good clean order. On the way out, somewhere north east of Double Island the motor had issues of a clearly terminal nature. Conditions were glass calm, but they were on the edge of the shipping lane so there was some concern about what to do. They were out of mobile phone range, and after trying to report their problems via radio were not getting any responses. They decided not to activate their Epirb due to the little sticker on the side stating that wrongful use would result in big fines etc.

They were due back at Sarina at 6pm. Family contacted the authorities reporting them as overdue at 9pm. We were contacted by Whitsunday Water Police after that to find out where they would have gone and the route most likely taken. A air search was started at midnight, and air sea rescue shortly afterwarads to follow the route they would have taken. During the course of the day and night, they set off 5 flares at times when they saw aircraft, or vessels in the distance. The last flare set off was sighted by both the chopper and a passing recreational boat. They were towed back to Sarina arriving nearly 24 hours after they should have.

During the debrief with Air Sea Rescue authorities and Whitsunday Water Police, they were told in no uncertain terms that they should have immediately activated their EPIRB, once they had ascertained that there was no possibility of restarting the motor, and they were out of mobile phone range, and were not getting any response to their radio calls. Doing this would have alerted the authorities and pinpointed their location, saving the costs of a 12 hour air and sea search, and had them safely back on shore nearly 24 hours earlier, saving a lot of worry and lost sleep for families, friends and rescue personnel, as well as monetary costs.

So simply put, if you do find yourself in this situation, and you cant get anyone to respond to radio calls, flares or other telecommunications devices, dont hesitate to use the Epirb. Thats what you carry them for, and it may just be the device that ensures you get home safely, and not end up as a report on the 6 o'clock news.

Jeff.

Very informative & relevant...Thank you.

Ray & Kerri.

Back In Black
19-06-2013, 06:45 AM
Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification. I think that is pretty much what most readers would do if in that situation, as you would have no alternative.

I will be very interested in hearing the response from a certain person, as I am sure many will.

As you said, the time, the increased cost, the grief the family were suffering, how do you put a cost on that??

If activated, they know exactly where you are, more than likely one vessel or a chopper involved, not multiple searching that awfully big paddock, saving a huge amount of resources & worry.

Thanks again for the info.

Tony

JCVDBloodSport
19-06-2013, 07:08 AM
I usually let my epirb off just before i leave the house to head to the ramp. Covers all bases then.

SatNav
19-06-2013, 07:22 AM
1. Rule #1 mobile phones are not to be relied upon. Quoting being out of mobile phone range is simply a waste of print

2. Rule #2 radio communications would have saved an extreme amount of worry, headaches and waste of emerency services, chopper time in this situation. What is not totally understood at this time is the situation of the radio communications, no response? Why? obviously radio was not functional as there were other vessels in that particular area at that particular time.

3. This incident does nothing more than highlight the on going issue with attitudes towards proper radio communications, maintaining that radio equipment and ensuring the radio equipment is in good working order.

Muddy Toes
19-06-2013, 08:43 AM
Hi all.

Recently, one of our contributors posted that "1. An EPIRB should only be used when there is a threat of grave or imminent danger......". I can now report on a real life situation that shoots this theory down.



Thats actually not just a theory mate its direct from Marine Safety Queesland typed word for word and in response to a question asked by another member.

WalrusLike
19-06-2013, 08:49 AM
" waste of print". Seriously? :(

Gee I hope you are not in a position of power over anyone... or as bad... an instructor of any kind.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

Noelm
19-06-2013, 09:20 AM
So... to summarise, an EPIRB should ONLY be activated when there is "grave and imminent danger" pretty simple and clear to me, however, who makes or when does the call get made that you are in "grave and imminent danger"? that's what we are in two minds about! To Satnav, it is when every effort to make contact has been exhausted, your boat is on fire and sinking, there is sharks circling the boat, and a hurricane is raging blowing you straight on to the rocks, right? To the majority, it seems as long as you are disabled, and have little chance of getting help right away, that's good enough. To me it is a bit of in the middle, who is right is anyone's guess, I do know that the authorities take an EPIRB activation very seriously, and it is not a toy that is handy to get someone's attention when it all goes to shit.

Bros
19-06-2013, 09:30 AM
During the debrief with Air Sea Rescue authorities and Whitsunday Water Police, they were told in no uncertain terms that they should have immediately activated their EPIRB, once they had ascertained that there was no possibility of restarting the motor, and they were out of mobile phone range, and were not getting any response to their radio calls. Doing this would have alerted the authorities and pinpointed their location, saving the costs of a 12 hour air and sea search, and had them safely back on shore nearly 24 hours earlier, saving a lot of worry and lost sleep for families, friends and rescue personnel, as well as monetary costs.

So simply put, if you do find yourself in this situation, and you cant get anyone to respond to radio calls, flares or other telecommunications devices, dont hesitate to use the Epirb. Thats what you carry them for, and it may just be the device that ensures you get home safely, and not end up as a report on the 6 o'clock news.

Jeff.

Todays rescue can easily end up being tomorrow's mayday. Good post

Back In Black
19-06-2013, 09:47 AM
1. Rule #1 mobile phones are not to be relied upon. Quoting being out of mobile phone range is simply a waste of print

2. Rule #2 radio communications would have saved an extreme amount of worry, headaches and waste of emerency services, chopper time in this situation. What is not totally understood at this time is the situation of the radio communications, no response? Why? obviously radio was not functional as there were other vessels in that particular area at that particular time.

3. This incident does nothing more than highlight the on going issue with attitudes towards proper radio communications, maintaining that radio equipment and ensuring the radio equipment is in good working order.

SatNav- here is a serious question for you, & I would appreciate any help from anyone else as well.

I fish the Hards a bit, but as soon as I get past say, 40km out, my reception drops out. Phone reception as well is lost.

Due to this problem, Linemaster, our local Furuno & everything to do with boats supplier, replaced my VHF & upgraded it to an Icom, replaced the aerial with a better, longer one, but I am still losing reception.

We go up to 100km out, & it is very unnerving having no communication.

Now before you give me a pasting, I have a 28ft Sailfish with twin 150 Hondas serviced every 100 hours & they only have 250 hours on them. I always fill to the brim before leaving & I have 480 litre capacity, so regarding fuel & reliable well maintained machinery, I believe I am covering all bases, as well as they can be covered.

I am a mechanical idiot, struggling to work out which way to turn a tap on, so if something did do wrong engine wise, I couldn't fix it anyway, hence the twin engines.

I was told by a mate to try channel 80 when I got out of range, as Noosa has a repeater station, & I should be able to get reception on this. I tried several times, but nothing. If afeter doing everything I have done, & still can't get reception, what is my next move??

Thanks all,

Tony

Muddy Toes
19-06-2013, 09:53 AM
SatNav- here is a serious question for you, & I would appreciate any help from anyone else as well.

I fish the Hards a bit, but as soon as I get past say, 40km out, my reception drops out. Phone reception as well is lost.

Due to this problem, Linemaster, our local Furuno & everything to do with boats supplier, replaced my VHF & upgraded it to an Icom, replaced the aerial with a better, longer one, but I am still losing reception.

We go up to 100km out, & it is very unnerving having no communication.

Now before you give me a pasting, I have a 28ft Sailfish with twin 150 Hondas serviced every 100 hours & they only have 250 hours on them. I always fill to the brim before leaving & I have 480 litre capacity, so regarding fuel & reliable well maintained machinery, I believe I am covering all bases, as well as they can be covered.

I am a mechanical idiot, struggling to work out which way to turn a tap on, so if something did do wrong engine wise, I couldn't fix it anyway, hence the twin engines.

I was told by a mate to try channel 80 when I got out of range, as Noosa has a repeater station, & I should be able to get reception on this. I tried several times, but nothing. If afeter doing everything I have done, & still can't get reception, what is my next move??

Thanks all,

Tony

Hey Tony....

My uneducated guess knowing not very much at all would say that a sat phone or an HF radio and appropriate class license to use it would be a good measure.

Noelm
19-06-2013, 10:35 AM
doubt a change of channel would increase your range in any way (but you never know) radio reception is in a way, line of sight, have a read of this, it is a sort of simple explanation of how it all works.
http://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/vhfant.htm

Noelm
19-06-2013, 10:38 AM
I guess I should add (not that it makes any difference) but I started life as a radio technician, (back when we used to fix things) and worked in the field for a lot of years.

lethal098
19-06-2013, 11:06 AM
For me if you constantly fish out there and have no communication on VHF then its time to add a HF radio in i think.

If there are other boats around that can relay your message great, but that is not always the case.

Your EPIRB is there when there is nothing else you can do to get help, Your Boat is broken down, no radio communication, guess what, its now life threatening, so it should be as a Last resort in a Breakdown Situation but you may not have any other choice.

Depending on the location the first thing you will see is an Aircraft, be it HELO or Airplane. From there once they can establish comms with you on emergency channel 16, If your Radio still works they will notify the SAR Authority (water police) and relay messages back to them.

Then a VMR or Coastguard Boat will be the next most likely thing you see to tow you home.

When you get back the water Police no doubt will be waiting for you but as long as you were justified in your use of the EPIRB then there would be no issues.

WalrusLike
19-06-2013, 11:09 AM
Tony the only point Satnav has made so far that makes sense to me is.... If you are going so far that you loose comms then you've gone too far.

To fix it you either need a satphone or a HF(?) radio and appropriate licence and training.

I don't really know where I stand on the issue of whether that's an acceptable risk or not... I would lean towards not... based on the cost and risk to rescuers if you become overdue.

The different channel idea is based on the fact that some repeaters are in very high positions and so may give coverage when other channels fail.

It is a shame there are not drones with repeaters that could fly out towards an overdue boat and maybe re establish comms.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

Noelm
19-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Just one thing to remember (that has been mentioned before) if you are a long way offshore and you get recued by the Police, Navy or a Helicopter,(or a merchant ship) they are NOT going to bring your boat back too (especially the helicopter of course) they are NOT obligated or inclined to tow a half sunk/disabled boat miles back to port (they might though) their primary concern is human life and safety, no one gives a fairies fart about your upturned pride and joy!

Aussie123
19-06-2013, 01:34 PM
The answer to this question is very simple.
Log on when you leave the ramp so the authorities know you are out there and tell them your destination.
At least if you do not log off at the required ETA they will start to look into things.
The most important thing is to make sure the vessel is equiped with the right equipment before venturing out of standard radio or phone range.
If you are one of those people who do fish wide,buy a SAT Phone.
An Epirb and the entire rescue services are not their because you were too tight to spend the money to have the required safety gear for your boat.
I think any boat owner or skipper who takes a vessel outside of their contact range is irresponsible and should not have a license.
Install the equipment on your vessel that suits your intended use and capabilities.

Bros
19-06-2013, 02:34 PM
I notice that HF radio is suggested as an alternative but HF has fallen off the priority list as far as VMR and CG is concerned so much so that many of them don't have HF sets anymore. With HF radio you will contact someone but may not be in Australia.
Another means of communication is the use of CH16 on VHF as there are a lot of merchant ships coming in and out of port and they will be monitoring CH16 and as their antenna are high you could contact one of them and not even see it. They would definitely know what a Pan Pan is and can relay your call so don't dismiss this line of communication and use it every 30 min as a ship travelling at 18 knts can be close enough to hear you in this time. After trying this for 4 hrs then use the EPIRB but expect to get a please by the authorities when you get back.

WalrusLike
19-06-2013, 04:37 PM
That's a good point Bros that I was forgetting... the ship traffic is possibly moving in and out of range randomly.

Unless your well off the beaten track a failed PanPan doesn't mean the next attempt won't work.

Also the half hourly silence periods haven't been mentioned. I frequently hear folks ignoring them and blabbing on while some poor soul might be trying a weak PanPan.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

SatNav
19-06-2013, 05:25 PM
SatNav- here is a serious question for you, & I would appreciate any help from anyone else as well.

I fish the Hards a bit, but as soon as I get past say, 40km out, my reception drops out. Phone reception as well is lost.

Due to this problem, Linemaster, our local Furuno & everything to do with boats supplier, replaced my VHF & upgraded it to an Icom, replaced the aerial with a better, longer one, but I am still losing reception.

We go up to 100km out, & it is very unnerving having no communication.

Now before you give me a pasting, I have a 28ft Sailfish with twin 150 Hondas serviced every 100 hours & they only have 250 hours on them. I always fill to the brim before leaving & I have 480 litre capacity, so regarding fuel & reliable well maintained machinery, I believe I am covering all bases, as well as they can be covered.

I am a mechanical idiot, struggling to work out which way to turn a tap on, so if something did do wrong engine wise, I couldn't fix it anyway, hence the twin engines.

I was told by a mate to try channel 80 when I got out of range, as Noosa has a repeater station, & I should be able to get reception on this. I tried several times, but nothing. If afeter doing everything I have done, & still can't get reception, what is my next move??

Thanks all,

Tony

1. Not VHF country at that range for a little vessel at all regardless of VHF make/model or length of antenna, height is what you need but you don;t have. This then leaves as first choice HF radio, Satphone or last on the list maybe something like SPOT?

SatNav
19-06-2013, 05:47 PM
1. And just to reiterate the point here a) This vessel was well past radio range assuming it did have a VHF b) by all acounts the the radio on this vessel was not operational

2. On the first point, incompetence extending beyond their means without proper working safety equipment, On the second point lack of maintenance and/or simply didn't bother to check their radio was operational and/or had no backup considering the area involved.

3. Some appear to be getting the point on this one? That a good sign. Others would no doubt be able to sit on a drawing pin and never get the point.

jtpython
19-06-2013, 06:11 PM
I think u don t even own a boat

Back In Black
19-06-2013, 06:18 PM
1. And just to reiterate the point here a) This vessel was well past radio range assuming it did have a VHF b) by all acounts the the radio on this vessel was not operational

2. On the first point, incompetence extending beyond their means without proper working safety equipment, On the second point lack of maintenance and/or simply didn't bother to check their radio was operational and/or had no backup considering the area involved.

3. Some appear to be getting the point on this one? That a good sign. Others would no doubt be able to sit on a drawing pin and never get the point.

SatNav-Bros said HF is on the way out as regards VMR & CG, so what is the benefit if they dont use it??

And what is SPOT??

Thanks,
Tony

Jarrah Jack
19-06-2013, 06:35 PM
I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here. Sat Nav is being downright dangerous harping on about competence. Using an epirb has nothing to do with how you got into the situation, that belongs in another thread altogether.

Poor old Kerry, all his other identities have been taken away so he's left with the bland Sat Nav identity to try to cause trouble with. Mister was more fun. :)

Funchy
19-06-2013, 06:42 PM
Here ya go perhaps Tony???

http://www.findmespot.net.au/

cobiaman
19-06-2013, 06:52 PM
I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here. Sat Nav is being downright dangerous harping on about competence. Using an epirb has nothing to do with how you got into the situation, that belongs in another thread altogether.

Poor old Kerry, all his other identities have been taken away so he's left with the bland Sat Nav identity to try to cause trouble with. Mister was more fun. :)

Agreed! Mister was very entertaining...

Short Fuse
19-06-2013, 07:14 PM
Sat Nav - its so easy to be an expert from the safety of your armchair. Quote scripture according to Maritime Safety, and label anyone who does not conform as incompetent, and not worthy to hold a marine drivers licence, or own and operate a boat. The skipper in question is an extremely competent boat owner who has over 20 years experience boating and fishing in this area and has fished this location many many times without any issues.

His radio does have the capability of reaching shore from where they were. In fact, on the previous trip to this one just two weeks ago, he was in regular contact with another boat fishing nearby, and friends back closer to the shore. It is not that far out - Double Island is around 60kms from Sarina Inlet. Unfortunately, as electronic equipment is prone to do the radio did not work on this occasion. The skipper is a qualified mechanic, and also skilled enough to be able to fix a lot of issues likely to arise in a boat. On this occasion, he was not able to get the radio working. Again, he is no incompetent who went beyond his capabilities. In fact, the new motor was purchased in May this year to ensure that his vessel remained in as seaworthy a condition as possible. He had the hull completely restored to as new condition only two years ago.

Unfortunately, when things go wrong, it is compounding factors that contribute to become major problems. If the motor had of expired less than 10kms closer to the coast, he would still have been in range to use a mobile phone as a back up. If the radio had remained working, he would have been able to call for assistance - remember, it worked only two weeks previously! If, as is often the case, they had another boat in company, there would not have been any issues, but being shift workers and a week day, they were unable to get a companion boat for the day. Yes, had they tried to log on with ASR on launching, they would have realised the radio wa snot working, but without confirming that with them, I can only assume it was most likely a time factor based on local operating times for the ASR. Volunteers organisations dont always operate 24/7, a fact you have taken the time to point out in your regular sermons from the mount. His only mistake on this occasion was that he had allowed the utterings of a local bar stool expert who told him that the only time to turn on an Epirb was when the boat had sunk, and the tiger sharks were circling to cloud his judgement. Being in no immediate danger of being run over by 70 000 tonnes of coal carrying steel, and on a calm ocean, he decided that he would wait for the chance to signal a passing boat to arrange a tow in, rather than set off the Epirb.

I guess, if we all sold our boats and took up croquet for a hobby, we would not be putting ourselves into the possible situations where we need to worry about using our Epirbs, holding or disposing of expired flares, buying sat phones or other items that we are "too tight" to purchase, just to save our lives, then, there would be no need for volunteer rescue organisations and their mostly hardworking personnel, and that would make life for guru's such as yourself so much simpler.

For some, that would make the ocean a wonderful place - but they are all members of the Australian Marine Conservation Foundation, and not likely to be frequenting this forum.

Jeff

SatNav
19-06-2013, 07:21 PM
SatNav-Bros said HF is on the way out as regards VMR & CG, so what is the benefit if they dont use it??

And what is SPOT??

Thanks,
Tony

1. Bros obviously does not speak for or has any awareness of requirements 2, 4, 6 meg, which will not be going anywhere, soon.

2. SPOT? as linked.

Humdinger
19-06-2013, 07:23 PM
If you think in your own mind you need to do so then it's the right call at the time
Worry about the consequences when you are safely back on land

Moonlighter
19-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Well said Jeff.

The vast majority of us anglers, as did your mates, prepare their boats well and have the experience required to do the trips that they do.

What some people fail to realise is that despite reasonable efforts, sometimes $hit just happens, and that is exactly why we carry last resort safety items like EPIRBS.

Glad the guys got back safely in the end. Say gidday to them for me and Rascal!

And thanks for sharing this info with us and debunking the bs put about by armchair theorists.

ML

Bros
19-06-2013, 07:32 PM
1. Bros obviously does not speak for or has any awareness of requirements 2, 4, 6 meg, which will not be going anywhere, soon.



Well that went over your head read my response then comment

SatNav
19-06-2013, 07:49 PM
"I notice that HF radio is suggested as an alternative but HF has fallen off the priority list as far as VMR and CG is concerned so much so that many of them don't have HF sets anymore. With HF radio you will contact someone but may not be in Australia."

1. I read it perfectly, you are wrong.

Moonlighter
19-06-2013, 07:54 PM
1. Rule #1 mobile phones are not to be relied upon. Quoting being out of mobile phone range is simply a waste of print

2. Rule #2 radio communications would have saved an extreme amount of worry, headaches and waste of emerency services, chopper time in this situation. What is not totally understood at this time is the situation of the radio communications, no response? Why? obviously radio was not functional as there were other vessels in that particular area at that particular time.

3. This incident does nothing more than highlight the on going issue with attitudes towards proper radio communications, maintaining that radio equipment and ensuring the radio equipment is in good working order.

1. Point 1 is just a total waste of print. We all know that mobile phones shouldn't be your PRIMARY OR ONLY means of marine communications, and equally, we all know they can be and are a valuable backup/secondary communication tool that have saved the day on plenty of occasions. The fact that Jeff mentioned that they had them but were out of range was simple contextual information. No need to make disparaging reamrks like you did.

2. Point 2 and point 3 are also largely a waste of print, unless you are Mr Perfect or one of those retentive types that carry 3 backup radios and 3 extra of every other safety item. Electronic equipment, unfortunately fails at times, simple fact.

Just a generally unhelpful response that addd no value and detracted from a very valuable lesson that was shared for members benefit.

Bros
19-06-2013, 07:58 PM
1. I read it perfectly, you are wrong.

Please enlighten a
puppet volunteers, easily identified by their name badges.

As to where I am wrong


the real volunteer is long gone, some of us who were actually there in the beginning know the difference, the rest wouldn't

Says a real expert in VMR's and CG's or sorry you were there in the beginning they have moved on since then.

Edit don't bother answering as I have fallen into the trap of feeding the Trolls

Spaniard_King
19-06-2013, 07:58 PM
"I notice that HF radio is suggested as an alternative but HF has fallen off the priority list as far as VMR and CG is concerned so much so that many of them don't have HF sets anymore. With HF radio you will contact someone but may not be in Australia."

1. I read it perfectly, you are wrong.

Could be the local rescue organisations not maintaining their gear hence they don't/can't monitor said types of radios mentioned above.

SatNav
19-06-2013, 08:11 PM
1. VMR still monitors HF just about the full length of the coast they cover, apart from the gulf which is VHF16 only (total lacking in repeaters).

2. 2182 (especially) is still an international distress frequency the last time I looked and HF will have a dam better chance of talking to somebody especially local shipping when out of VHF range. Then again GMDSS doesn't care much about little boats but this is no excuse either.

3. Then again in the SE corner some still monitor 88, 90, say no more.

Bros
19-06-2013, 08:23 PM
1. VMR still monitors HF just about the full length of the coast they cover, apart from the gulf which is VHF16 only (total lacking in repeaters).

2. 2182 (especially) is still an international distress frequency the last time I looked and HF will have a dam better chance of talking to somebody especially local shipping when out of VHF range. Then again GMDSS doesn't care much about little boats but this is no excuse either.


Gee shows how far out of date you are as 2182 has been dropped as a distress frequency some time ago it is now 4125, 6215. and 8291. As for all VMR's monitoring HF I can name 3 that don't even have HF sets and the others have them turned down or off so you should be a bit more informed.

ozscott
19-06-2013, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't hesitate if adrift offshore, night approaching and no radio response. I would be happy to be in a nice safe courtroom arguing the point rather than being sharkbait. Its the same with mayday. If one of my family was in grave medicL danver I would mayday...when really that should be a pan pan....

Cheers

JEWIENEWIE
19-06-2013, 09:12 PM
And if they did get run over by a tanker, this thread would be about " Why didn't they hit the EPIRB". Same as crossing a bar. If in doubt dont go out. If in doubt hit the bloody button. Not bloody rocket science is it.......
JN

WalrusLike
19-06-2013, 10:46 PM
We ought to just accept that most of us here, and most folk out there on the water, are sensible and would choose to do the appropriate thing. Lets let this just die a natural thread death.

Arguing the point with someone closed and bloody-minded is a waste of this precious print that Satnavs so worried about. :)


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

SatNav
20-06-2013, 06:32 AM
Gee shows how far out of date you are as 2182 has been dropped as a distress frequency some time ago it is now 4125, 6215. and 8291. As for all VMR's monitoring HF I can name 3 that don't even have HF sets and the others have them turned down or off so you should be a bit more informed.

1. That is also incorrect (in part) as even thou shipping has no requirement to maintain a listening watch on 2182 if you send a DSC alert on 2187.5 then you will get a 2182 voice call and to say 2182 has been dropped as a distress frequency is pure fallacy in your context.

2. And apart from the 4,6 & 8 meg distress freq there are 8 VMR stations (apart from CG) that monitor 2182 between Jacobs well and the Burdekin. This covers the entire Qld coast covered by VMR.

3. However the real point and summary for those venturing past VHF range is HF is a real alternative, it is the first and best alternative and to suggest HF is somehow dead is rather misleading.

4. Hence if you are a competent skipper and venture past VHF range then you obvioulsy won't put your live or the lives of others in danger and have proper safety equipment (that being radio in this context) suitable for the area. Accepting and understanding this very simple requirement appears a little hard for some to grasp?

thelump
20-06-2013, 08:17 AM
Sat Nav needs fuel to burn his sick, twisted, little fire and is getting plenty of it. As I have previously read in someone's signature "Arguing with an idiot only proves there are 2".

Muddy Toes
20-06-2013, 08:37 AM
Agreed Macca.......every thread slowly and subtley gets turn around to fall right within his scope of expertise all so he can express his knowledge on certain subjects, subjects far removed from the original post.

Bros
20-06-2013, 08:38 AM
Sat Nav needs fuel to burn his sick, twisted, little fire and is getting plenty of it. As I have previously read in someone's signature "Arguing with an idiot only proves there are 2".

I have to agree there so I have said my piece I am only giving the troll a platform to preach from so I won't take part in anymore discussion of this subject as you have SatNav as the self appointed guru. It really must make him feel good to preach for all the VMR's and CG when they are in his words "puppet volunteers".

ozscott
20-06-2013, 09:25 AM
I just hope that SatNav's posts dont put people off using their EPIRB's when genuinely out of their depth - engine dead or out of fuel, nobody around, radio not responding (out of range, dead etc), battery dead, and they are worried about their life - there may be no immediate threat, but they are concerned about a threat that might reasonably eventuate - eg drifting into a shipping lane without lights or radio, where the flare have already been set off etc to no avail.

Preserving life is of far higher importance than being worried about compliance with a particular regulation or keyboard jockey's interpretation of same; after all EPIRB's are for saving life. I have a view that if activated when using common sense and when the person is genuinely worried about danger to life/lives you cannot go too far wrong.

Cheers

jtpython
20-06-2013, 11:33 AM
Common Sense if u are floating in the ocean all other options has been extinguished activate ur safety EPIRB
Its a safety device we use it no go " Oh no should I shouldn't I" If there's a massive bitey critter waiting for me in the water I want to get the Booney out of there

Always been in the Coast Guard always will be awesome job all our Emergency services and Volinteers do
And buggar Fueling Gumbies like SatNav goodluck to u buddy im going fishing :P

Back In Black
20-06-2013, 01:19 PM
Now I am just getting confused. One says go HF, another says don't.

Sat phone is OK but no good for receiving warnings etc

You other fishos who do the Hards , DI wide & beyond, do you get radio reception??

If so, what do you use??

Thanks,

Tony

Muddy Toes
20-06-2013, 02:54 PM
Tony, I've got an Icom M604 vhf paired to a ZCG Scalar CM 156 aerial.

Not sure of the exact distances I get but a quick Google earth cruise should tell you.....

My house is 10m above sea level at Redland Bay and I can hear the Seaway tower very clear and Point Danger well enough from my backyard.

I can clearly talk to Bundaberg VMR from Fitzroy lagoon when the repeater plays the game.
I can talk to Mooloolaba from the southern bay most days.

My aerial is a 2.2m whip and mounted on my hardtop which itself is a tad over 3 m above water line and obviously these scenarios above are under ideal conditions.

By the way......I'm picking up my new sat phone on the weekend. Woo Hoo!!

Jarrah Jack
20-06-2013, 03:17 PM
Has anyone ever tried a pigeon? If it doesn't work you could always eat it.

Just saying like....

cobiaman
20-06-2013, 03:19 PM
2. I wonder if SATNAV works for iridium...

jtpython
20-06-2013, 03:31 PM
We could always strap a note to angie pangie 's leg and send her home Terry
Off note
This 1 time years ago..................... I was talking to Smithy from Yeppoon on the marine radio he was at the Sunny Coast by memory

This 1 time of course

lethal098
21-06-2013, 09:32 AM
Tony,

Go the Sat phone, simple and easy

Apollo
21-06-2013, 10:40 AM
We could always strap a note to angie pangie 's leg and send her home Terry
Off note
This 1 time years ago..................... I was talking to Smithy from Yeppoon on the marine radio he was at the Sunny Coast by memory

This 1 time of course

There was one time at band camp .......


I wouldn't hesitate if adrift offshore, night approaching and no radio response. I would be happy to be in a nice safe courtroom arguing the point rather than being sharkbait. Its the same with mayday. If one of my family was in grave medicL danver I would mayday...when really that should be a securetay....

Cheers

Know a good lawyer do you???

I am the same as you, I will do all that is reasonably possible to prevent the situation in the first place, but if caught out, I will have no hesitation in using what means I have to get out of it and if that ends up finally being to hit the EPIRB button, then that is what I will do and I won't be thinking about SatNav's typings when I am about to do it or awaiting a rescue.

I have had to do a pan pan once with a yacht I was delivering was taking water from an unknown source. Didn't blink twice at doing it and believe it was appropriate at the time and the coastguard never questioned it as we would have gone down in 10mins had we not found the issue (electrolysis related split).

Moonlighter
21-06-2013, 11:41 AM
Those of us that work in Government know that the reality is that the only time you are going to get a ticket, or taken to court for inappropriately firing off your EPIRB is if it is under clearly ridiculous and inappropriate circumstances i.e. where it prompts an unnecessary SAR effort.

It is just not worth the effort to prosecute someone for this type of thing unless the case is pretty cut and dry, the act caused or would have caused unecessary and unreasonable expenses for SAR teams, and a conviction is therefore almost certain, with costs awarded against the perpetrator.

The courts will apply the "reasonable person" test - they will ask: "what would the average, reasonable person have done in the same circumstances?"

"You say your Radio failed? And out of mobile reception zone? Night approaching and few other vessels in vicinity? Unable to get weather forecast? Engine in pieces? You waited some time and then you set off your EPIRB? All OK."

As will plenty of other situations be.

What we have learnt from this case is that the authorities regard the act of setting off your EPIRB as clearly reasonable in circumstances where doing so would potentially save SAR time, effort and expenses. We now have an clearer understanding of what they want us to do. Good.

Enough said.

RayLamp
21-06-2013, 01:47 PM
Gee yamaha's are good...

ozscott
21-06-2013, 04:03 PM
Nice Avatar photo...where did you find the fish?

Cheers

RayLamp
21-06-2013, 04:16 PM
lol which one!

jtpython
21-06-2013, 05:12 PM
This one time at ............ Band camp I used my Flute as an Ariel
:P
Yammies are Poo Just saying

Boat Hog
21-06-2013, 05:17 PM
I reckon SatNav works the night shift in the AMSA Control Room and doesn't want to get woken up by an EPIRB going off .... ::)

Funchy
21-06-2013, 07:18 PM
I reckon SatNav works the night shift in the AMSA Control Room and doesn't want to get woken up by an EPIRB going off .... ::)

Hahahahaaa.... And only wakes up to go trolling!

Back In Black
21-06-2013, 07:49 PM
Tony,

Go the Sat phone, simple and easy

lethal,

The only issue I have with a Sat phone is you don't get warnings, updates etc

Tony

Jarrah Jack
21-06-2013, 07:58 PM
lethal,

The only issue I have with a Sat phone is you don't get warnings, updates etc

Tony

And your wife can get you at any time......

Back In Black
21-06-2013, 08:08 PM
And your wife can get you at any time......

JJ, When I fish, my wife is always with me!

Tony

Jarrah Jack
21-06-2013, 08:21 PM
JJ, When I fish, my wife is always with me!

Tony

Lucky man..Any sisters?

CruiserV8100
21-06-2013, 09:09 PM
We buy safety gear for one reason to keep us safe, and if I'm using it in a responsible manner in a situation that I see fit, its justified to help return my crew and myself and property to a safe location. Technologies great it helps save lives. We carry what the law states in safety gear for our offshore trips and in a situation one of these items will make contact with home base. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Its better to ask for help than to risk you and your crews lives..

Safe Travels..

solemandownunder
21-06-2013, 09:24 PM
lol which one!

WHAT fish...::)::):o:o:P;D

WalrusLike
21-06-2013, 09:49 PM
Tony I have no idea if this is possible or not..... maybe you could esquire of a knowledgable Satphone dealer....

To get the weather updates and warnings etc....
Is there any way to use the Satphone to let your smartphone get weather app data?

Worst case scenario might be a acoustic coupling to a dial up ISP service. It's technically feasible but I don't know if it is done or practical. Or do they have a digital port of any kind?

Just a thought..... Possibly a stupid one.... :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

mattooty
21-06-2013, 10:24 PM
Maybe go up to the VMR or CG that you would be radio'ing in to and have a chinwag about what they monitor and what the other boaties are using in the same areas? I'd say straight from the horses mouth would be more reliable than internet banter.

If I'm in trouble and not in control with what's happening, well then, that little button is getting activated!

No Tiller
22-06-2013, 10:14 AM
Hi Tony,
Have you tried Tin Can on 82. We used to get them alright on the shelf east of double how much further south r u.
Regards Brett

SatNav
22-06-2013, 12:31 PM
1. Many still totally miss the point on this one but that doesn't surprise anyone.

2. Yes there is a proper time and place to activate an Epirb, nobody is dispruting that and as someone mentioned along the lines of "when all other means available have been exhausted" and this is where the issue is as obviously many don't have "all the other means available to use in the first place" e.g. Being out of radio range without adequate communication, there is simply no excuse for this.

3. So if anybody can justify deliberately say being out of radio range thinking they will rely on an Epirb if anything goes wrong then I would like to hear it. Back to you.

ozscott
22-06-2013, 03:24 PM
If you are out of range, you are out of range. There can be a variety of factors.

Cheers

PS. This discussion is getting silly now SatNav

Back In Black
22-06-2013, 04:23 PM
Hi Tony,
Have you tried Tin Can on 82. We used to get them alright on the shelf east of double how much further south r u.
Regards Brett

Brett,
No I haven't as I thought they were 80. I'll try next time out there.

We tend to do Northern Hards, but this trip we were east of DI near the shelf.

Tony

Boat Hog
22-06-2013, 05:31 PM
3. So if anybody can justify deliberately say being out of radio range thinking they will rely on an Epirb if anything goes wrong then I would like to hear it. Back to you.

The regulations require you to have a Marine radio and an EPIRB when proceeding more than 2 Nautical Miles from shore, or boating on other than smooth or partially smooth waters - depending on which State you are in. It doesn't have to be an HF Radio, or even a VHF Radio, but a Marine Radio of unspecified type.

No State regulations that I have seen have specified that you must boat only within the range of your Marine Radio. If your boat is capable, well maintained and equipped to venture outside of radio contact and you have the experience and confidence to operate the vessel and perform minor fault finding and repairs ( like - locate and replace blown fuse, find cause of electrical short etc) and the forecast is suitable then I say go for it!

You can have every type of radio fitted to your boat but when you suffer a severe electrical meltdown or your batteries are under water then no radio is going to work (except for a hand held - with very limited range). A Sat Phone is a nice to have, but most of them don't work to well when they are wet! If everything turns to poo, then you have the EPIRB as a last resort to communicate that you are in trouble. As a stand alone unit designed to work in water, anywhere, anytime, that's the device I would be putting my faith in!

Cheers,

CruiserV8100
22-06-2013, 07:23 PM
Sat Nav you have the ability to scare people off not using their EPIRB. You have no authority to state what you do. Their is no written law you are allowing to guide you in you rant, so please mate only bring common sense to the forum. Would you like to be reading in a post in the future if they had only activated their EPIRB they would have survived. Precious minutes are wasted in emergencies from people fearing the outcome of asking for help. If your in the shite and you have no time to waste flip your switch. We all understand SATNAV their is a time and place to flip your switch. But each situation is going to be different to the next in an emergency.. Don't preach you opinion on this situation when you have no authority or guidelines you can have back you up..

Safe Travels Fellow Boaters..

WalrusLike
22-06-2013, 08:27 PM
Fellas I really don't reckon we ought to be worried that Satnav is putting people off activating an Epirb when in trouble.

In that kind of situation people won't be worried about offending some far off character on a keyboard.

If they are concerned for their passengers or themselves. they will use whatever means is at hand.

And we all know that the authorities will not ever prosecute a legitimate activation.




(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

SatNav
22-06-2013, 09:56 PM
1. People get back to the actual issue and stop trying to distract and sidetrack from the relevence as it does nothing more than highlight some are only to happy to cut corners and take risks.

2. Some still winge even today about having to be made to carry an Epirb, let alone having also to be made to register it let alone having to be told to service it as well, rather strange how some are very selective when it comes to quoting legislation :) sometimes it serves their purpose, sometimes not :o

team_mongo
22-06-2013, 10:31 PM
1. Not VHF country at that range for a little vessel at all regardless of VHF make/model or length of antenna, height is what you need but you don;t have. This then leaves as first choice HF radio, Satphone or last on the list maybe something like SPOT?

Spot??? - you'd trust your life to globalstar????
Good luck with that...

ftrucker78
23-06-2013, 03:02 AM
Great topic,pitty about the bull$hit that has came with it. I see this satnav fellow likes to blow his own trumpet a little, which is fair enough a lot of fisho's do, but satnav are you really a fisho? I see you have been on this forum for a little while so you either like fishing or fishing related topics,or your on here purely to cause trouble. So my question to you is can you even catch a fish? my guess is no, any fish in ear shot of your self pleasing dribble would turn tail.
Ps this is my first post on this forum,I fish wide of DI regularly,will be reporting my safe returns from the deep regularly. Cheers Brett PPs I Have Red fever

Back In Black
23-06-2013, 05:24 AM
Great topic,pitty about the bull$hit that has came with it. I see this satnav fellow likes to blow his own trumpet a little, which is fair enough a lot of fisho's do, but satnav are you really a fisho? I see you have been on this forum for a little while so you either like fishing or fishing related topics,or your on here purely to cause trouble. So my question to you is can you even catch a fish? my guess is no, any fish in ear shot of your self pleasing dribble would turn tail.
Ps this is my first post on this forum,I fish wide of DI regularly,will be reporting my safe returns from the deep regularly. Cheers Brett PPs I Have Red fever

Brett, good to hear your views. How wide of DI do you go, & If you still get reception, do you mind if I ask what gear you use??

Tony

ftrucker78
23-06-2013, 08:25 AM
G'Day Tony we use a GME unit the ariel would be around 2mtrs. we are only fishing up to 30 mile from the bar in any direction mainly north/north east. we have always had good radio signal,we will soon be upgrading to 6 meter plus boat with a couple of four strokes so we can head to the shelf or further up fraser.At the range we go at the moment we mainly have phone range not that we want it or relie on it. I think the mobile phone tower is at Eurong on Fraser,which i guess is why we still get phone service up there. Brett

SatNav
23-06-2013, 09:36 AM
"Spot??? - you'd trust your life to globalstar???? Good luck with that..."

1. I would agree with that but as another level of communication SPOT does have a purpose, but certainly not as a primary or distress system, battery limitations and third party call centres involved.

2. Purchase and operating costs are also not favourable compared to an Epirb.

ftrucker78
23-06-2013, 01:36 PM
Short Fuse I forgot to say a thanks for the info. As well as we all plan our much anticipated fishing trips, no one/ thing is perfect things can be over looked, a radio or motor that worked perfect one minute may fail the next. When things go as bad as the situation with your mate it's comfort to know you won't be facing a grilling for using your safety equipment.More to the point it's safer/ less cost for your rescuers to set it off. Before reading this post I would of done the same as your mate. cheers Brett

lethal098
24-06-2013, 08:59 AM
Tony,
You can always call the Coastguard/VMR to get the weather updates,
They will happily give it to you over the phone, Yes it might cost you a couple of dollars but hey, your safety doesnt have a price tag.

Cheers Lee

mattooty
24-06-2013, 07:17 PM
I've just spent nearly an hour with my local Wespac lifesaver Helicopter pilot chin wagging about EPIRBS in regards to NSW based emergencies (I assume it would be applicable elsewhere though Australia but I really am not 100% sure, one of the few things I didn't ask him).

I brought up this topic and questioned the ethics/rules behind activating my EPIRB in certain scenario's and how it is dealt with post-rescue.
He couldn't emphasize enough that if you are in a situation that you cannot get yourself out of on your own/with your own comms then set it off. He emphasized that even if you have food and fresh water for a month, that it is still a life threatening situation whether its immediate or potential for it to become a life threatening situation.
One of the biggest issue's they have at the moment is spending countless hours hovering over strange locations searching for land-based EPIRBS that have been set off in rubbish dumps after being dumped.
He told me that if a rescue is intitiated due to your partner calling the Police and saying that you went fishing and didn't come home that it is a state funded rescue effort and as such has a finite quantity of funds. Eg, if they don't find you in a few days then they've run out of money and will call the search off. However if you activate your EPIRB then it is a Federally run rescue operation (based from Canberra) that largely has an open cheque book so they will search non-stop until they locate the EPIRB.
In this instance he said that when an EPIRB is activated it is much easier to send one aircraft to that location and search initially on a relatively low cost operation and locate the vessel and co-ordinate the rescue/salvage operation from this point.
If a search and rescue is implemented and your location is vague at best (and lets face it, how many of our partners would be able to say, he went to the north grounds off the Goldy, and if he doesn't go well there he'll go wider and failing that he'll head south before fishing the bait reefs and coming in) then the operational capacity is suddenly at 20 fixed wing aircrafts, a dozen choppers all searching an area that could well be hundreds of kilometres from one region to another. Obviously this chews through the funds and the search is cancelled within a few days.
In conclusion, he told me that I am best to activate my EPIRB rather than wait for a co-ordinated search and rescue from Police.
Straight from the horses mouth. I'm taking it as what it is, a proffessional reccomendation, and sticking to it.

Crunchy
24-06-2013, 09:57 PM
VII. Nah mate, satnav knows more about these things than some Westpac rescue helicopter pilot.....

WalrusLike
24-06-2013, 10:10 PM
I'll bet that pilot didn't even number his points. :)


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

TREVELLY
24-06-2013, 11:04 PM
I'll bet that pilot didn't even number his points. :)


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

Thanks for that - bloody funny.

Good night

mattooty
25-06-2013, 08:33 AM
I'll bet that pilot didn't even number his points. :)



;D;D;D

I'll get onto him!