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View Full Version : Does anyone have a hardtop mould I could borrow ,loan, modify or ??



MrNanks
17-06-2013, 08:15 PM
I am looking a putting a fibreglass hardtop on my Haines Hunter V19R and I either need to make one up on a mould or get one. The plan is solid glass windows for the windscreen and clears on the sides. Roughly 2.1 m wide and about 2.1 long.

I would really like to do as much as I can myself for 2 reasons. 1 is because I like that kind of thing and secondly is to keep the costs down.

I have drawn it up roughly and I like it.
Any tips ,advice or things to be careful of, I am more than happy to hear.
Also if anyone has any photos that they would post of similar DIY,s.

I plan on using aluminium tubing with 3mm walls for the rocket launcher and supports. I have mig at home set up for aluminium so I plan on tacking it together and getting someone to TIG the rest.

Cheers

Dave

Any

Shark Poker
18-06-2013, 05:57 PM
Hi Dave,
Despite the fact that the sistership (19C) is capable of handling a high profile cabin and a hardtop, I suggest you aim to keep the weight of any hardtop as light as you can.
The heavier the roof, the more posts and reinforcement it needs. Both add to the weight, cost, plus any loss in performance.
The rocket launcher can be the aft roof support.
Have a look at fibreglass composite building materials (fibreglass layers over foam and similar) as well as plastic sheet such as pvc/ foam pvc or even thin King Starboard.
Just a suggestion. Happy researching!
Pauly

Horse
18-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Have a chat to Captain Rednut

thylacene
18-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Your pm box is full

You can find them here http://www.caribbeanboats.com/

And better photos here http://www.stkildaboatsales.com.au/caribbean-boats

It is worth looking at their design if nothing else, the shape of the hardtop contributes to its strength, there is a triangular void over the windscreen, the returns that drop down the sides and the raised "lip" at the back, combined with the "bend" across it from where the front is tapered down to the screen means that you don't need as much materials to get a rigid structure.

Try making a mini version out of cardboard and sticky tape, the compound curves can really stiffen up the side of a Kellogg's box.

Using curves means that foam sandwich becomes workable, light and strong

Cheers

Thy

The-easyrider
18-06-2013, 09:04 PM
I was tossing up making one a while ago but have shelved it for now. Plan was to use styrofoam with epoxy resin over 4 oz glass mat sort of like making a big surf board. Mate who is a boat builder made one like that for his ride.

MrNanks
18-06-2013, 09:05 PM
Sorry Thy.
I thought I had moved messages into their own little folder. Only having 5 sux.

Thanks for your advice. I will look at that site.
I totally agree about keeping the weight down Fatbouy.
I was wanting to ask you about the windows.
I want to do full windows on the front and clears on the sides.
What sort or fixing would be best to fit the top of the window frame to(in the hardtop)eg marine ply or aluminium fibre glassed into the hardtop.

Cheers Dave

Shark Poker
19-06-2013, 04:27 AM
A lot of the old cruise crafts and savages have a fibre-glassed strip plywood under the roof, in the correct position for the top of the windows to connect to (with screws).
Go have a look at one sometime.
Or if you like I can find some photos.

Chimo
19-06-2013, 07:17 AM
Hi Dave

Before and after. Might be better off to build your frame with stiffer SS than Al. We used the rocket launcher at the rear, split with the tubes above the hardtop and a couple of extra SS supports at the front forward of the screen. No movement and can support a couple of people on top!

We trimmed a fair bit off; 30 to 40 kg including a cement sheet section, not Al, that was intended for a radar dome and still got good all round overhang.

Thanks again to all concerned.

Cheers
Chimo

PS Finga may have the mould.

938619386293860http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/pencil.pnghttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/pencil.png

MrNanks
19-06-2013, 09:59 AM
That looks so frigging good Chimo.
That is exactly what I am trying to achieve.
From the dates on the photos , you have only just done it. Is that right ?

If you get a chance, would you please give me some more detail on what you had to do and any pitfalls.

Is Fingas a local, does he work in the fibreglassing game or is he jsut bloody handy at things ?

Cheers

Dave

Chimo
19-06-2013, 10:53 AM
Hi Dave

Finga is on here and he's a "farmer" "landlord" ex sparky with a well developed sense of humour and a few other things.

The job was recently done. The stainless was done first then the untrimmed hardtop was secured on top. The shipwright / fibreglasser then trimmed the sides as we had specified and also cut the heavy internals out of it before the layer of white flocote was applied to the underneath.

The overhang is great and the clears are more waterproof than they used to be though still not air tight at the top which I like as a little air flow without water is good.

No wood or anything else underneath as the clears are still attached with press studs to the ring of ss that was part of the original Seafarer build they way they were when the sunbrella top was in place. You could glass in wood around the underside as you build it as suggested above to attach the top of clears etc

No pitfalls at all as the people who did the work know what they are doing, you just have to pay the $s.

Cheers
Chimo

captain rednut
19-06-2013, 07:35 PM
938839388493882
hey mrnanks
Here is a picture of our hardtop we put on our vintage Haines Hunter when we gave her the 42 year old makeover recently.
thanks Jim

MrNanks
19-06-2013, 09:22 PM
Looks great Capt Rednut.
What models Haines was it before its makeover .
Is the hardtop all aluminium ?

Cheers
Dave

captain rednut
19-06-2013, 09:53 PM
yeah mate the hardtop is all aluminum and its a 233 formula 1972 model.

Chimo
20-06-2013, 07:39 AM
Hi C R

Great looking set up. Do the two sliding side windows and the top vents keep it cool enough on hot days?
Any reason you didn't increase the forward overhang above the front the front screen, or was the weight getting up too much?

Cheers
Chimo

myusernam
20-06-2013, 10:45 AM
Hi C R

Great looking set up. Do the two sliding side windows and the top vents keep it cool enough on hot days?
Any reason you didn't increase the forward overhang above the front the front screen, or was the weight getting up too much?

Cheers
Chimo
re the overhang - it would be quite less aerodynamic (esp on a fast boat like the formula) to have a large overhang above the windscreen wouldn't it? all the air rushing up the windscreen and then nowhere to go.
Also re:weight - aluminium is HEAPS lighter than glass. I would take a powdercoated ally hardtop over glass anyday. Infact I dont know why people persist on glass hardtops at all. Sure it looks ok. thats it.

MrNanks
20-06-2013, 10:59 AM
Interesting about the weight issue Myusernam.
I have a 250 amp remote mig at home ready to go. I didn't really consider doing the hardtop in Ally.
But I am now. I reckon if I can get the roof stringer plasma cut out that would be a huge start. I have enough metal shaping tools and able to access as many as I need......... pondering. The big plus would be that I could alter it as I go if needed.

What would the approximate weight differences be for a 2 x 2 hardtop in ally and glass ?
Is it going to be more rigid ?
Cheers

Chimo
20-06-2013, 11:18 AM
I take your point about air flow however would it not be possible on a boat that goes "really fast" to have fitted a narrow slot above the top of the window edge across the width of the top as an air release and still retain the aerodynamics and the shade for instruments and people?

Perhaps one could also have a press studded white shade sail / shade cloth infill for the days one was not going so fast but still wanted the benefits of shade?

myusernam
20-06-2013, 03:53 PM
I take your point about air flow however would it not be possible on a boat that goes "really fast" to have fitted a narrow slot above the top of the window edge across the width of the top as an air release and still retain the aerodynamics and the shade for instruments and people?

Perhaps one could also have a press studded white shade sail / shade cloth infill for the days one was not going so fast but still wanted the benefits of shade?
kinda defeats the purpose of the hard top then. (having gaps etc.) A large overhang is a tradeoff. What about tint like on a car window.
Weight wise it will be heaps lighter and just as strong.
It's not just the weight but the height of the weight to. Aluminium also easier to work with really - especially little fiddly bits or customisations. It's the way to go

Chimo
20-06-2013, 04:46 PM
You don't need much of a gap to spill the air you were concerned about that might slow you down. Probably only a matter of inches. Probably no gap at all if the "flap" was bent up an inch to spill air but still provide shade cover

Tint on a front window would be counter productive especially for night vision.

Al certainly has benefits especially in a complete sides and top unit and as you say there would be no limits to the degree of customization that can be applied.

Shark Poker
20-06-2013, 06:50 PM
At the risk of doing a rant, the diff between alum/f-glass comes down to the amount of material and thicknesses.
And the efficient positioning of the posts and supports.
I work with both materials plus others.
A lighter weight fibreglass top, like in the previously posted photos, with SST supports is always going to be lighter than a decently made alum top.
But a fibreglass glass over plywood roof will normally be heavier than any alum creation.

Custom fibreglass and Stainless Fabrication is expensive, but obviously worth the money.
The worst hardtops I have seen are all plywood/alum creations, especially where the idea of a hardtop grows to wanting to put a dinghy on the roof, plus a generator, three blokes.....
Guys, there is a reason why 30 foot sports cruisers use SST frames and fabric covers. You simply can not beat the strength to weight ratio of canvass.

However, if I was building another hardtop I would use foam pvc with an alum capping on the edges.
Happy to discuss this product further, but will shut-up for now.

MrNanks
20-06-2013, 07:09 PM
However, if I was building another hardtop I would use foam pvc with an alum capping on the edges.
Happy to discuss this product further, but will shut-up for now.
Tell me more FatBuoy. How do you work with it?
How would you attach the edge trim on and have you got any pics of the finished product ?
What are the advantages ?
Cheers

captain rednut
20-06-2013, 08:49 PM
hey guys there is no doubt a foam/epoxy custom hardtop is much lighter than a alloy one, but we did not build one because i don't feel they are as strong as alloy for our intended use with 8x Big game rods and 5mtr game poles/shot gun pole/ radar/safety glass windows and all the crap Ive got hanging off mine and considering the crappy weather we fish during summer fishing for billfish in tournaments.
In my opinion The amount of re-enforcing required to hold all of our equipment up there in a modern day foam epoxy hardtop was my concern and the costs were similar.
we have got fully factory tinted safety glass all round so the over hang is sufficient with out looking silly.
Both foam/glass and alloy construction hardtops require extensive bogging and fairing if you want a smick finish and are expensive.
I stay Dry/shaded and warm with a foam and epoxy paneling interior finish which keeps it cool and stops condensation.
cheers jim

FishHunter
21-06-2013, 05:40 AM
re the overhang - it would be quite less aerodynamic (esp on a fast boat like the formula) to have a large overhang above the windscreen wouldn't it? all the air rushing up the windscreen and then nowhere to go.
Also re:weight - aluminium is HEAPS lighter than glass. I would take a powdercoated ally hardtop over glass anyday. Infact I dont know why people persist on glass hardtops at all. Sure it looks ok. thats it.

Untill it starts bubbling and the paint starts peeling off. Glass I can knock up myself in the back yard with basic equipment and in any shape that takes my imagination, alumium not so easily.

MrNanks
22-06-2013, 10:20 PM
Does anyone know anything about "resin infused foam" then I was told it is vacuumed. Or is that what you guys are talking about.

captain rednut
23-06-2013, 07:31 PM
hi you can buy the composite panels ready to cut and fit in 25 mm thick, attached is one we built recently for a mate of mine.
cheers jimmy

Shark Poker
24-06-2013, 05:33 AM
I like it.
And in this situation the glass being bonded on has a reinforcing effect on the structure.
:)

surveyor
24-06-2013, 05:15 PM
hi capt
nice result what can you tell me about the panels brand and seller and rough weight
i too want to build a hard top and was considering foam ,fatbouy can you shed some light on the thickness and layup and how do you reinforce the bolted/screwed joints
cheers ,

MrNanks
24-06-2013, 05:36 PM
Yes all of what surveyor asked ??????

Shark Poker
24-06-2013, 07:14 PM
What I meant in my previous post is that by bonding the frameless glass windows to the structure, you are providing multi-directional reinforcing.
Frameless glass windows (aka direct glazed toughened glass) often have 40mm wide adhesion borders, so the structure can not move much at all.
Building materials include klegecell or construction foam, rather than the green insulation foam. Polycore and other honeycomb products are easy to work with and fibreglass over.
Check them out.

captain rednut
24-06-2013, 08:17 PM
hi
The green panels are structural composite epoxy foam sheets available in 1200x2400x25mm thick and each sheet would have to weigh about 10 kg not much at all, i could pick up a sheet with one hand.
The sheets are so strong it was UN-believable.
The only fibre glassing required is where you join it or add gussets to strengthen the corners, we dug out the foam in all areas you wish to mount something and epoxy fill the hole, there is no need to glass the entire sheet as its already glassed structural composite sheeting.
The only complicated part if you require a rolls royce paint finish like we did is to bog and fair the entire hardtop which made it look great.
There are several companies who sell the sheeting in Brisbane and it from memory about $400 per sheet.

Casey Ison
24-06-2013, 08:24 PM
Giday mate heres a hardtop I built for my cruisecraft I fully restored this boat from top to bottom 12 months ago. the hardtop is made of 40 mm ally box and sheeted in 3 mm ally sheets, it weighed bugger all once the windows were cut out I could lift the whole top alone. very very strong and takes a wave or 2 over the front no worries.

cheers



94092

MrNanks
24-06-2013, 08:31 PM
hi
The green panels are structural composite epoxy foam sheets available in 1200x2400x25mm thick and each sheet would have to weigh about 10 kg not much at all, i could pick up a sheet with one hand.
The sheets are so strong it was UN-believable.
The only fibre glassing required is where you join it or add gussets to strengthen the corners, we dug out the foam in all areas you wish to mount something and epoxy fill the hole, there is no need to glass the entire sheet as its already glassed structural composite sheeting.
The only complicated part if you require a rolls royce paint finish like we did is to bog and fair the entire hardtop which made it look great.
There are several companies who sell the sheeting in Brisbane and it from memory about $400 per sheet.Doe that mean it cant be curved or not enough for a roof camber ? Did you bog it with resin and qcell or car body filler? Do you screw the sides together with the roof or do you fibreglass it together ? Do you have any construction photos ? Cheers

captain rednut
24-06-2013, 08:48 PM
Yes it can be curved very easy all you do is cut most of the way through the sheet in segments about 10mm apart and bend to what shape you require and then epoxy fill and glass up the cut areas. (same procedure as curving plywood).
Epoxy filled with micro balloons and temporarily held together with s/s screws whilst tagging the area with F/Matt.
The photo supplied has heaps of roof camber and curved shapes used everywhere.