So Angry at people..

[GreekBoi]

delete this threat please.

[Boab Bribie]

I see where your coming from. But on the other hand you say your dad has had this design for 10 years and done nothing with it he could have got a patent on it and then problem solved no-one can copy the exact product etc. This guy has obviously seen a good thing and taken it a step further weather he makes a living out it is another story but he has done nothing wrong as far a I can see.

NO BITES
NO BAIT

[GreekBoi]

delete this threat please.

[solemandownunder]

As far as I know, he can still take out a "Registered Design" with Patent Pending.....

If he does that before anyone else.....then he can demand that the other seller cease from selling that product.

Although...on the down side....as long as there are major differences in the other product, he would not have a leg to stand on unfortunately.

However...IF he did get a "Registered Design"......he could then safely advertise HIS product....and I for one would love to see it.

Thanks, Ray & Kerri.

[Noelm]

Not too sure how you could take out some sort of "patent"on a ladder, it is not new or different, just because it is on the front does not make it unique!

[wayno60]

GB,
The same thing happened to my father many years ago, i wont go right into the details but yep it sux.....

Registered Design....Patents...... things only have to be 10% different and theres nothing you can do about it, so if they were to change how the hinge worked, or the amount of steps, or what the steps are made from can be more than 10%...

[solemandownunder]

Not too sure how you could take out some sort of "patent"on a ladder, it is not new or different, just because it is on the front does not make it unique!

Noelm.....I believe, from memory, that is why you get the "Registered Design" first....then patent THAT.

However a quick call to the Patent Attorneys office should answer all the questions.

Ray.

[death_ship]

Don't worry, once the Chinese get a look they won't care less about a patent

[Dan5]

I don't think your father will become an overnight millionaire because of a bow mount boarding ladder.


Dan

[Horse]

I have seen quite a few designs for bow mounted boarding ladders over the years. The first ones would have been at least 25 years ago on a variety of plate boats. What makes this particular design so revolutionary? I have seen the ones with a single attachment usually permanently attached

[Muddy Toes]

I'm the same as horse, I've seen quite few different over the years both permanently fitted and retrofitted to both plate and glass boats.

[Crunchy]

I know how it feels, I invented the post-it note originally and they copied it.

[lbger]

ive always been told and it rings so true... in business your never committed unless you have money invested.. its sux mate but your dad had ten years to do something and didnt..

[Triple]

Boats have been around since man first wanted to venture across the blue in search of that elusive pb fish of their choosing, and have modified and came up with stuff to improve them since.. do you really think that your dad invented something that no one had ever come up with before him just because you had not seen it around and not think someone else would not come up with something similiar eventually OR if he did originally invent it and did not patent/copyright/register the idea then why wouldn't someone else make and sell it so other people could use this wonderfull thing that everyone comments on to make the boating day a better experience instead of just you and your dad using it and make some coin out of it too?

If your dad is keen on selling them, be the first to get them mass produced in china as stated and undercut this bloke on the trading post by 25% like someone will soon anyway.

[GreekBoi]

delete this threat please.

[juggernaut]

I know how it feels, I invented the post-it note originally and they copied it.

That was me who copied it - but mine have different colours and sizes - so I guess I invented it. ;D

[grumpysmurf]

I'm afraid that by posting this, you have now publicised the design of the ladder even more. I'm in Perth, and now I have seen the Trading Post ad and can see how easy it would be to copy (not that I need to or intend to). Assuming that you are talking about below (the only ad that fits your description)
http://www.tradingpost.com.au/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/Telstra-TradingPost-Site/Telstra-TradingPost/en_AU/UserImages/IMPEX_IMAGES_NDS/nds_13648/D1364800142337/Resized/Resized640x480_D1364800142337_B.jpg

[solemandownunder]

It's not a ladder as such, you would have to see it to know what it does. It was built mainly for the family as my aunties got older it was easy for them to hope on with it and it would pack away very tidy and neat without it detaching from the boat compared to other ladders you tend to need to detach it and store it some place. Plus it wasn't a step ladder, we had tafe people, engineers, rich boaties come up and ask who built it cause they never seen the design before. The guy that has taken the design has made it cheap and simple not the same cause it would of taken them a while to figure it all out by just glancing at it which is good cause I guess he could still patent it as it's still not the exact same design but it's the same idea.. I bet one of the people that asked my dad if they could take a photo of it so they could make one knows this guy or is the guy that has made and is selling it. Even though my dad gave out his business card to people they just bypass that and try make a buck on the side.. That's why I'm upset.

M8, I can understand you not wanting to post any pics up here of Dads' invention....but until we can see the general idea, it is VERY hard to make any informative comment about the product.

Can we at least see what the "other" bloke is selling ? Dont have to be a link....just SOME idea of what this is all about. I mean, basically the horse has bolted, so please show us what all this is about.

Then, put it to a vote on HERE.....

You know....."would you buy ones these" type questions.

The reason I say this is that maybe ur Dad could start getting some sales covertly while he tends to the "registered design" side of things. ?

From what I see on these forums, members would rather deal direct & support a good original ozzy "invention" all day long. At least I know I would.

Cheers, Ray.

[Sheik]

It does seem that patents have no currency anymore as things do tend to be copied in countries with very low wages/costs and sold on the mass market. I understand how bitter you might be about the ladder being copied. Your dad needs to go with "the original and the best" idea and market the ladder like that. It is a very difficult thing to do.

[netmaker]

I thought I had a great idea when I took one of my kids mini lava lamp type thingys and turned it into an led flashing lure. sent it off to e.t. (no reply) looking for investment backing, only to find a month later the idea had already been come up with by someone else when one of my mates pointed it out in a fishing mag. bit deflating I must say. had another project on the burner when I designed a crab pot that worked with a trapdoor type arrangement that closed behind the crabs after they stepped off a "pressure plate". I took out a provisional patent and sold about 100 before I saw a similar type idea in the states. gave that one up when I saw it wasn't going to replace my day job. had an awful lot of fun tho, turning my shed into a crab pot factory with jigs set up to manufacture all the different components. was spitting out pots at the rate of 3 per hour before chucking it in. wish I had invented the cable tie instead...

[Boat hog 2]

I came up with the name boat hog but a certain person that wants to be like me got in first and advertised himself to be the original boat hog. But we both know who the original boat hog is, this certain character also calls himself Jim but we both know that's not true now is it "Jim".

[Gon Fishun]

Back in 1963 my cousin and I pulled a roller skate in half, nailed the 2 parts 2 foot apart on a fence paling and skated around the shops driving everybody insane. ;D How do you think we feel. :dunce::wut::bigcry:

[Triple]

Back in 1963 my cousin and I pulled a roller skate in half, nailed the 2 parts 2 foot apart on a fence paling and skated around the shops driving everybody insane. ;D How do you think we feel. :dunce::wut::bigcry:

Yeah it's a pity that people were already doing that in the 30's and the modern style skateboarding in the late 50's in California but hey...

[ozscott]

I think I have seen a ladder like that. Is the idea that top of the ladder slots into a receiver on the front near the anchor (with say a split bow rail or no bow rail) and then it can be removed when not in use?

Gon Fishun - that is priceless.

Cheers

[ozscott]

My preference is for this one though

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSr7FLKRnitLSYnSYiGqh6x8jW9giEuo pk2N1uKezfWpBBoWJW5

or this in a push

http://www.sea-doo.net/units/2010/2010%20Sea-Doo%20210%20Challenger/thumbnails/2010%20Sea-Doo%20210%20Challenger%20-%20Bow%20Ladder%203tn.jpg

[Muddy Toes]

Back in 1963 my cousin and I pulled a roller skate in half, nailed the 2 parts 2 foot apart on a fence paling and skated around the shops driving everybody insane. ;D How do you think we feel. :dunce::wut::bigcry:

At a guess I'd say that YOU feel you are cool.............

Naive in the fact that wearing a hat backwards and your jocks hanging out above your jeans makes you the laughing stock of the majority of the population with an IQ above 3.;)

But..........if it makes you feel cool Bob then keep it up mate, just don't forget to clean your bedroom up before mum comes home and spanks you :P:-?;D

[ozscott]

Ohh..I see - you stick a u-bolt aft of the bow roller - see the exploded version of this piccy http://www.tradingpost.com.au/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/Telstra-TradingPost-Site/Telstra-TradingPost/en_AU/UserImages/IMPEX_IMAGES_NDS/nds_13648/D1364800142337/Resized/Resized640x480_D1364800142337_A.jpg

Here it is being sold by Runaway Bay Marina in Qld....

No good for people like me where the anchor is always housed in the roller while trailering and not at anchor on the water. But, and I am happy to share this idea...what about using a stainless steel rod holder which itself is held down to the foredeck by stainless steel u-bolts and where the edge of the rod holder goes out past the edge of the bow - You could make the receiver so it was notched to take a cam in the prong of the ladder so that the ladder could not move side to side when boarding the boat - that and an interference fit between shaft and receiver should see it stay in place. Or better still use a spring loaded cam like an old vacuum cleaner handle - where the donger slides into the receiver and a cam or button springs into a locking position an inch or back from the front of the rod holder entry point and the ladder cant then swing side to side, nor pop out unexpectedly - and to remove just push the button back down and slide out...

Cheers

[wags on the water]

GB,
The same thing happened to my father many years ago, i wont go right into the details but yep it sux.....

Registered Design....Patents...... things only have to be 10% different and theres nothing you can do about it, so if they were to change how the hinge worked, or the amount of steps, or what the steps are made from can be more than 10%...



This is what a lot of people don't realize - 10% is bugger all and gets quite a few noses out of joint.

[Volvo]

I'm afraid that by posting this, you have now publicised the design of the ladder even more. I'm in Perth, and now I have seen the Trading Post ad and can see how easy it would be to copy (not that I need to or intend to). Assuming that you are talking about below (the only ad that fits your description)
http://www.tradingpost.com.au/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/Telstra-TradingPost-Site/Telstra-TradingPost/en_AU/UserImages/IMPEX_IMAGES_NDS/nds_13648/D1364800142337/Resized/Resized640x480_D1364800142337_B.jpg

Yep i need something for the Missus or anyone else boarding from up front of my platey and although Piccy looks nice i cant see where the pipe bit fits or how easy a task it would be to board without the ladder bit moving forward making a steep entry angle!!??, spliced roap ladder would seem more easy and stowable to me??..

[ozscott]

Volvo - see my post above about how it works in its current form. Click on the link and expand the photo.

Cheers

[solemandownunder]

My preference is for this one though

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSr7FLKRnitLSYnSYiGqh6x8jW9giEuo pk2N1uKezfWpBBoWJW5

or this in a push

http://www.sea-doo.net/units/2010/2010%20Sea-Doo%20210%20Challenger/thumbnails/2010%20Sea-Doo%20210%20Challenger%20-%20Bow%20Ladder%203tn.jpg

So...where are the ladders ::)::)::):D

[MudRiverDan]

Back in 1963 my cousin and I pulled a roller skate in half, nailed the 2 parts 2 foot apart on a fence paling and skated around the shops driving everybody insane. ;D How do you think we feel. :dunce::wut::bigcry:
You invented the Ford Falcon, should have made a patent.

[Shark Poker]

It offends you at first, but you get used to it.
Around here where I work we have a saying "Good Ideas are Cheap"
The patent or commitment to securing one is the key. And who wants to commit months of patience and thousands of dollars towards lawyers for a big "MAYBE"?
Trust me, that guy will sell some ladders maybe , but other dudes are already seeing the idea and trying to make their own! Possibly selling a couple as well.
Pauly

[Crunchy]

True story, my grandfather (Who was a big time tinkerer) invented the thingy that you put the hose onto to clean the underneath of the lawnmower, he showed it to xyz mower company and they thought great idea and started doing it....don't think my grandfather showed anyone any more ideas after that.

[MudRiverDan]

yeah why are patents so expensive, then other countries just rip em straight off the bat and make money.
Strange but I am guessing it is the footwork to prove the patent is real that cost the money, maybe a lot of hours?

Dan

[Jarrah Jack]

Thats life. I've had people come into my gallery, measure and photo my furniture designs. I don't like it but can't do a thing about it so there's no point stressing. The important thing is to do what you do well and wait for the others to fall over.

[tunaticer]

I can't see why you are upset to be perfectly honest.
Ideas come to many of us, if we do not act on them and make something of them, then it is worthless as your dad's design was.
If he had made a product with intent to utilise it in the marketplace, then his "invention" would have been valuable.
Fair enough this current marketter of the walk thru ladder may well have obtained inspiration from your dad's design, but his design is the valuable one because he has acted on it.
Plenty of damn good original designs never make it to production for a plethora of reasons, that doesn't mean to say they were the best by being original, just they never harnessed a market for them to be profitable.
I think that if you are going to be angry about it, you need to find out exactly why it is not your dad's fortune and accept that fact.
There are millions of patented wheels on the market, but what did the inventor get?

Being a designer of some fairly complex machinery etc, I get to see lots of examples of others taking designs and marketting them well.

The guy that invented the pressure relief valve used on most hot water systems patented that thing when he was a late teen........he would now be in his 80's and still receives royalties from that patent. A Sydney lad back then and last I spoke to a guy that knows him, is a recluse worth many millions of dollars that flits between his farmstead hideaways scattered across the eastern states. He produced the patent on the design, concept and intellectual properties of the valve and yet only ever made prototypes. He spent the rest of his life trying to create a new thing to patent that would take the world like his first one did....lightning strikes once.

[MudRiverDan]

yeah but the guy ripped him clean.
Toads and parasites, a lot of them doing well today.

[trymyluck]

yeah but the guy ripped him clean.
Toads and parasites, a lot of them doing well today.


How do you know?????????? Maybe the guy has had one for years and finally got around to marketing it?
So anyone doing better then yourself is a toad or a parasite?
My father came up with a clever idea do improve a method of fishing for bream, worked a treat and was a closely guarded secret. Thou and behold it came on the market a few years later when someone else came up with idea as well so he must have copied it........

[WalrusLike]

The average bloke can't patent stuff.

'Yes he can' I hear you say...,

But a patent is worth nothing unless you can enforce it... and that takes deep pockets and a bit of risk.

And even if you enforce it you won't stop low income countries from ripping it off anyway.

If you have a good design seek advice from a Patent Attorney... Then do nothing, or maybe the minimal, but mostly just go ahead and produce it...

You are in a market place where there is always competition. Build it right and price it right and you'll do ok.

Good luck to your dad. I hope he goes ahead and makes some money.


(Using Tapatalk on iPhone so can't easily 'thank' or 'like')

[MudRiverDan]

How do you know?????????? Maybe the guy has had one for years and finally got around to marketing it?
So anyone doing better then yourself is a toad or a parasite?
My father came up with a clever idea do improve a method of fishing for bream, worked a treat and was a closely guarded secret. Thou and behold it came on the market a few years later when someone else came up with idea as well so he must have copied it........

If you hear hoof beats think horse, not Zebra,
simple.

Dan

[Goldfinch]

Competition is a great thing. Build one better and cheaper and compete...if there is enough of a demand of course.

[trymyluck]

If you hear hoof beats think horse, not Zebra,
simple.

Dan
Looser...........

[Stuart]

I hear what your saying mate. Unfortunately Australia, and the rest of the world for that matter is full of low life scum that takes other peoples hard work and copies it for a quick buck.
I have been the tackle game for over 20 years, and I cant even begin to tell you how many things of mine have been ripped off. I even have some Muppets actually calling me on the phone asking all the tec questions, where I buy the materials from, how much I pay, what the margin I make. I tell you what mate, sometimes I think Im on an alternate planet where brains are optional. Im so pissed off now I just hand any new rip offs straight to my lawyer.

Stu

[astro66]

a mate and i designed some glass clamps (for glass fencing)...he had the money and patented the clamps...wholesaled them...then the engenering shop that machined the parts ripped off the idea and changed it slightly while undercutting the price and stealing a few very large customers....

patenets are worthless.....

[Muddy Toes]

Isn't that what PE Tackle did to Hot Shotz tackle?

[lee8sec]

Please explain


Isn't that what PE Tackle did to Hot Shotz tackle?

[stevej]

a patent is to establish who was first, thats all it does

you then need the money to take legal action against who ever follows if you deemed they have copied it

[LittleSkipper]

I guess with any new invention you also have to have very deep pockets to prevent others from copying your ideas?

[Bull]

I've got an idea I've had it for years actually. Fizzy flavored milk. Just imagine an ice break with bubbles.

[upstart]

I once put milk in the soda stream. What a mess! It went everywhere!

[Triple]

or tea pods for the new style coffee machines..

[Stuart]

Top shot tackle is a classic example of what happens when you cant fight the wankers that copy your gaffs. Every one now has a top shot gaff rip off, even some big name tackle companies. I had one company rip my name off, called them up and cut them a new one, pulled the rods from the shelf once my lawyer got involved. Austrlaia is overrun with cheap copies of what was once a mecca for innovation, not anymore.

The issue which will soon be realised, is that all the thinkers will all be gone, the innovation will disappear due to those who choose to copy and then sell cheap. I have seen many tackle designers leave the industry over the years. Its totally out of control now. I find that tacking the big boys head on isn't always conducive, taking them on in the public arena is so much more effective. facebook, web sites, forums such as this can better educate people as to the dying industry that is the tackle game in Australia.

Walk through any tackle shop in Australia and I see as much as 50% and more that is made in China. The other emerging industry is counter-fitting products. I have seen for myself products sold as a genuine brand name, labeled as such, but made in China. I have informed those companies of the products that are being sold under their brand name. It may seem Im having a whinge, I guess I am, I have invested over 20 years, god knows how much money into my business, un told hours of design and product testing, only for some pimple faced turd to send one or two products of mine to China in order to copy them. What they dont get is the fishing industry has a very fast wire telegraph, eyes and ears everywhere.

I take the fight straight to the peanuts and make sure they know what will happen if they copy or sell the product I have designed, Im sure you get what Im saying so enough said on that.

Astro66, what the engineering company did to you is a predatory action, you could sue them very easy.

[Shark Poker]

And just tonight I have a chinese boat builder phoning me to fix a yacht owned by a local guy.
I expect they will analyse the new result and make it part of their new standard, and make it that way in China.
While I get paid for a few hours labour but not the redesign component, which takes years of experience and innovation to be able to sort out.
At best I get paid on time and keep a few local contacts happy.
That's how it is.

[MudRiverDan]

think you will find countries are now protecting their intellectual property, might be a heads up to do the same.

Dan

[The-easyrider]

Hate to burst your bubble greekboi but those style of ladders have been around for years, not saying your dad did not invent them but I first saw one about 8 years ago. Even tossed up buying one and will when I can't lift my leg high enough to climb aboard.

[GreekBoi]

No that's not what it is.