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capt
06-06-2013, 02:01 PM
A mate of mine has recently bought the above '06 boat

He was in a decent sea last Sunday and the forward part of the hull got water in some how and nearly rolled the boat when in a following sea as there was so much water up forward.:'(

He made it to the ramp and managed to drain the boat once on the trailer. This was not the first time in rough conditions with no problem before

It appears there are some sort of ballast tanks up the bow area but not 100% sure . A though search has found no where water could be getting ? ?

Tried contacting Trailcraft but they have gone bust but have heard they are made in China now.


Has anyone got /had one of these boats or could offer some suggestions about hull design or possibilities of water entry

cheers Jimmy

Noelm
06-06-2013, 02:08 PM
Possibly a crack in the hull? never heard of ballast tanks in a Trailcraft, let alone in the bow!!!

Gon Fishun
06-06-2013, 02:35 PM
Heard these are self draining with scuppers. Everything ok there??

Noelm
06-06-2013, 02:44 PM
dont think the smaller models are self draining, and no water should get in when under way, as it appears that is how it was.

capt
06-06-2013, 04:32 PM
Right on Noelm self draining and only water gets in when its rough , not coming over the side in this recent issue
Checked for hull cracks nil.
Could be when the boat is a rest water naturally falls to the bow , this would not be good design at all

Probably need to speak to some one who has had one . Must be another owner out there .

cheers Jimmy

Moonlighter
06-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Hi Jimmy

That sounds like it was a frightening trip.

Look, I dont want this to sound insulting at all, but is your friend an experienced offshore or open water skipper?

The reason I ask is that the symptoms you have described sound very much like the boat was nearly broaching.

if the outboard engine is trimmed in (down) too much in a following sea, it causes the bow to dig in and do the sorts of things you described. Te boat feels like it wants to dig in and turn around on itself, with the boat going sdeways, and is very scary. The same thing can be caused, or at least contributed to, by putting too much weight up in the front half of the boat. Cuddy cabin boats can be a trap for doing exactly that.

If you combine both these things- too much down trim on the engine and weight too far forward in the boat, then broaching in a following sea is likely to be the result.

The solution is to trim the engine up quite a bit more so that it lifts the bow higher out if the water. And shift weight down the back, or at least more centrally in the boat.

A skipper who has not used a boat much in a decent sized following sea might not know about this. And you said that this boat is a recent acquisition for your friend. so he might not be familiar with how it should be set up for a following sea.

So that is why I asked.

It is possible that the water was just in the bilge and wasnt really the problem at all. Is does sound very strange that water could be somehow trapped up forward and stay there when the boat is on the plane, even if it is in a following sea. That is really what has prompted me to look for other reasons for the boat's behavior.

Hope these thoughts help.

Cheers

ML

capt
06-06-2013, 05:10 PM
Yeah thanks ML but this mate is a real scurvy sea dog with 20 years sea experience.

He reckons about 300 liters of water came out at the ramp. that amount of water would certainly make it broach

Jimmy

Malcolm W
06-06-2013, 05:21 PM
The 5.3 is a self draining sealed hull. The only way water can get in is by way of a crack or hole. Once water is in the hull it can make it's way from the transom to the bow and back.

As Noel said, double check for weld cracks. These are hard to see but open up in a rough sea due to flexing. The other is the transom motor bolt holes, check to see if these are well sealed.

If this one has a kill tank, check to see if the pipe running to the stern is ok. You will have to take an inspection lid off to do this.

Have been in a Stabi craft that has done exactly the same in a heavy sea and the skipper pounding the hull by driving a bit fast. The crack was very fine and only 200mm long. Seemed to let a lot of water in while underway.

ozynorts
06-06-2013, 05:22 PM
300lts of water..... Is it possible that the water has entered over time throughout the day and was only really noticed in the following sea when the boat had the bow down and the water moved forward? Maybe check to see if there is a crack else where on the hull, transom maybe. Did the water run out of the bung at the end of the day or did he have to get it out some other way?

Crocodile
06-06-2013, 06:07 PM
Hello capt,

Did your mate taste the water to check if was salty or fresh, that might give a clue.
My brother had a Trailcraft 5.3 side console, self draining, there were no compartments under the floor, open from bow to stern underneath, a cabin may be different.

**** Pay attention to this, if you have to weld be very sure that there are no petrol fumes because the hose clamps to the under-floor fuel tank were loose and petrol was leaking into the under-floor cavity, we had to pull up the floor and re-tighten the clamps, then flushed it well with soapy water.****
I guess the guy on the production line was crook that day.
There was about a litre of petrol lying under the floor, this was after we had opened the bungs at the ramp to let any dribbles out.
That was when I smelled the petrol.
That boat had an electric bilge pump under the floor, I wonder how well sealed the pump and the wiring was?

Moonlighter
06-06-2013, 06:23 PM
Crikey! 300 litres is a serious amount of water!

It does sound like a split somewhere to get that much in.

I have a vague recollection of issues some people had with welds in the transom area on Trailcrafts allowing water to get in. Maybe do a search here n Ausfish and see what you can find.

Check inside where the floor meets the transom, and where the hull and the transom join. cracked welds in these areas flex with engine torque and will let lots of water in. They tend to close up when the boat is at rest and can be very hard to see.

The other option of course is to keep it on the trailer in the driveway, put the bungs etc in and put the hose in there and let a couple of hundred litres of water in, and sit and watch for leaks! Sometimes a bit of food colouring can help find the exact spot if leaks happen but the source is not obvious.

Cheers

ML

gofishin
06-06-2013, 08:51 PM
From the models I have seen underfloor (well, up to about 10 yrs ago) the Trailcraft's have no underfloor divisions or ballast tanks, or at least the Ozy ones didn't. Sealed floor, apparently! FYI the common air chamber would make them illegal to sell in US, Canada and EU markets - at least in sub 6m boats -for the past ~20 years or so!

Depending on the model/size, they have transverse 'ribs' made from ~75 - 125mm deep plate, and longitudinal 'stringers' from 30 to 50mm flat bar. There are limber holes in these members, and being a common chamber, any water that got in would slop and/or drain anywhere and everywhere underfloor subject to gravity and movement when underway.

As per questions others have asked, but also...


A mate of mine has recently bought the above '06 boat How recent?

He was in a decent sea last Sunday and the forward part of the hull got water in some how and nearly rolled the boat when in a following sea as there was so much water up forward.
How long was the boat 'on the water', including moored etc?

He made it to the ramp and managed to drain the boat once on the trailer. This was not the first time in rough conditions with no problem before How many trips in total in this boat? ...


Right on Noelm self draining and only water gets in when its rough , not coming over the side in this recent issue Does any water come in over the bow & on to the cockpit floor via running down the side decks when its rough/on this trip?
Checked for hull cracks nil.
Could be when the boat is a rest water naturally falls to the bow , this would not be good design at all How is it normally loaded - gear, people etc?
...


Yeah thanks ML but this mate is a real scurvy sea dog with 20 years sea experience.

He reckons about 300 liters of water came out at the ramp. that amount of water would certainly make it broach

Jimmy

That much water in a 5.3m boat it should be noticed easily, like a Paul Gallen "1 - 2" in the chops...especially by a scurvy sea dog of 20 yrs ;). We are talking 300kgs, or 3 big blokes wallowing around on/below the floor. What hp is the engine? What was the load/people etc on board? I would expect it would have hardly planed, and squatted substantially when trying to plane!

Some simple questions, as well as all that others have mentioned; is the bung flange cracked, if not is it sealed properly to the boat? Rivets intact? Does the bung have its O'ring? Was it tight? Not being a smart ar$e, its been done before, including by me :-X

As ML has suggested, remove the floor panel above the tank & fill with water & food die, or otherwise, seek professional help. This could have serious consequences.
cheers
Brendon

keith51
06-06-2013, 09:13 PM
I have a trailcraft 5.3 sportscab ,i also experinced similar water problems it came in through the plastic bung on the transom duckboard which some fat oaf stood on & cracked the screw cover
,was a fair way off 1770 & fairly rough ,& i was wondering why the deck was awash, those plastic screw on covers are very flimsy ,
cheers keith.

Greg P
06-06-2013, 09:22 PM
+1 above on the transom inspection spin outs. Trailcrafts are notorious for leaking there. Hopefully not hull cracks and just a simple changeout.

NothinSuss
07-06-2013, 08:23 AM
I once owned a 535 profish and after talking to a mate in Darwin who sank his 500 pro fish discovered a very serious design problem with my trailcraft.

The live bait tank pump pick up is a 20mm-25mm ali pipe welded through the hull. A nylon fitting is pressed and glued into the top of this pipe. The live bait pump is then screwed to this nylon fitting. Over time the nylon weakened and eventually cracked. The pipe is only about 200mm long, so when it cracks its below the water line level. Mates boat sank to the bottom in 5-10 minutes. Bilge couldn't keep up.

So after I heard this I had a look at mine because I was starting to get a bit of water out the bung after a trip and it was getting worse.

I opened the inspection hatch, reached in and put my hand on the live bait pump, a little wiggle and the fitting broke.

Lucky is not the word!!

I wanted to thread the alli pipe on the top, install a valve and then refit the pump, but couldn't because there is no room to get in and swing tools.

In the end I tapped a thread from the underside of the pick up and thread a 3/4 inch bung into the pick up.

Doesn't leak now.

Shit design, and all trailcraft owners be aware, check it straight away.

I rang trailcraft to discuss and no one would talk to me.

Gon Fishun
07-06-2013, 12:35 PM
Shouldn't this be brought to the manufacturer's attention, and there be a recall or warning sent out in regards to a life threatening problem?
Mum, dad and kids drown in Moreton Bay. Boat sunk, no reason why, and not a cloud in the sky. :(

zan0_15
08-06-2013, 04:25 PM
I myself own a 5.6 metre trailcraft sportscab and have found it to be a great boat, i pick my days and have no worries heading to the reefs off mackay (120kms) but i really do have to pick my days. Im well aware that if i get caught out with an incorrect forecast it will be a hell of a long trip home as they are not the softest riding hull around through the choppy messy stuff!! but drive to the conditions and you get home eventually.

As for your concerns, like others have stated there are only a few ways the water is entering the hull. The through hull bait pump pick up, the rear duckboard hatch, engine mount penetrations, bung seal and a cracked hull.

I have had to replace my duckboard hatch which i monitor all the time but also now keep coverered on and offshore to stop the sun getting to it. Also had to completely reinstall the through hull bait tank pump setup, fortunately mine is a fully welded job (No dodgy glued fittings WTF?) alluminium tube welded through the hull with a 3/4BSP thread inside the hull to screw the pump straight into which is how the pump was originally installed. I replaced the pump and when i did i installed an isolation valve before the baittank pump and double clamped all hoses onto barbs. Should the pump ever fail i can now reach in and close the ballvalve which will stop water flooding the hull. Double clamping, well 2 is better than 1 ;)

When i purchased mine (second hand) it also didnt have a bilge pump! which i think is absolutely disgusting, there should be a set of Australian standards for boat fitouts to elliminate alot of these safety issues boat builders stinge on to save a buck.
Mine is a 2003 model so aussie built which is a plus i guess, just a few disapointing/potentially fatal design flaws which if not addressed WILL cause u problems at some stage.

Please keep us posted with your dramas.

Cheers, Zane.

capt
10-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Well sea trails happened Frid. and Sat. with no water getting in . I was within radio range incase anything got ugly.

The water must have been getting in through a loose transom hatch . There is no rubber seal . That's if there is one .

There live bait tank inlet issue that a few have mentioned needs to be checked , to get at the bait pump is not easy. They must have put it in when they made the boat. Not sure how you would ever change it. Cut a hole in the transom above it and then you have another layer of checker plate. ? ?
this Sports cab is '06 so hopefully there's no plastic pipes there.

Anyway thanks to Zano and all you other blokes for your input .

cheers Jimmy