Battery problems....Again!!!!!!!!!

[Back In Black]

Had issues with what we thought was the winch a couple of weeks ago. Slow to haul up, sent every low voltage alarm into overdrive, actually shut down the Furuno & Garmin.

Got my maintenance man to check batteries, & he said all good. Pulled the winch out, & I took the motor to auto electrician. He pulled it down & said it was perfect. While there, I got him to put the house battery under load & test it. Perfect????

Came to the conclusion that when running, the motors are topping up the 2 star batteries, but not quite enough to really top up deep cycle house battery.

Answer- Ctec charger, which was on for about 10 days, & showed fully charged, so we thought we solved it.

Went out Saturday & same problem again. On the 1st haul up, low voltage alarms, light dimming (night fishing) Had to switch the emergency parallels on to get going.

Any ideas?? If I don't get this solved, I'll have to drift fish!!

Tony

[Gon Fishun]

I have never been flash with electrics, but my cousin is and a whole lot of years ago, MK 2 Zephyr stuff, we had starter motor problems and he said it was poleing ???? under load. Do not know if that is the correct spelling or terminology. Your auto elec will know.
Cheers.

[Back In Black]

Hi GF,
I'm wondering if when tested at shop, its not really being put under a big enough load.

Tempted to take electrician out on the boat, dump anchor in 40m & get him to test while retrieving.

Seems strange everyone is telling me everything is perfect, when on land, but on water under load it all goes south.

Actually struggled getting motors running at one point. Glad we were on Sunshine Ref & not the Hards!!

Tony

[Dicktracey]

Tony faulty or dirty connections in either pos or neg circuits are a common cause of voltage drop if batteries will hold charge and have passed a load test mate.you could hook winch around trailer for a quick load test with auto electrician there to test full circuit without being on water.
Dick

[Back In Black]

DT, Now thats a good idea!!
Terminals are spotless. Is it possible for a battery to test OK but when under big load fail?? I might just whack a new deep cycle in to start with & see if that does the trick or not.

Getting annoying, as we have to use absolute minimal lights so we can start, & fishing in the dark is challenging enough without being able to see what I am doing!!

Tony

[sleddog]

I would try another battery and see if you have the same issues. I had problems starting my boat once. When the battery was tested with the multimeter it was reading just over 12 volts. When I tried to start the motor, it would turn over but not start. The battery was only 3 months old. I tried another battery and it started with no problems. Turns out one of the cells in the battery had collapsed and when under load of trying to start the voltage would drop to under 10 volts but when not under load would read 12 volts. There was even a little green indicator reader on top of the battery showing it was all ok.

[Back In Black]

I reckon thats my first option sleddog. At least by doing this, I can start the process of elimination.

Tony

[lethal098]

Tony, If you can Put a mulitmeter on the battery when using the winch and see what it says, if its anywhere under 10 Volts then the battery is more than likely the culprit,

[kaypee]

Hey Tony,

Sorry if this is a stupid Question, but are the engines running when you use the winch?
I just know that when I use mine, if its deep water or struggling to bust the anchor off the bottom I can watch the volts dwindling on the gauge in front of my eyes, and thats with both running! I usually idle the engines up in neutral, if that happens and it solves the prob??
If its only just started to do it though, its probably more the batteries starting to fail.

Hope it gets sorted soon... Boats... never ending!

[Back In Black]

kaypee, yes, we always start the motors before winching.

I am hoping it is something as simple as a dodgy battery!!

Tony

[Volvo]

Just changed both my batterries which were showing fully charged with my etec and cased up purchase date back to 2009. Did two runs in a row and first trip no probs but last trip they went flat on me overnight having left fluro, sounder and plotter on near all night. Luckilly i had a powerpack with me to get me going and checked out both batteries when back at home and they were a tad flat ey:)!!!.. Be on the safe side just went n bought another pair of newies..
Three times now over the length of time ive had my rig all times ive had batt problems they showed full!!??..trouble is even showing full should get test done see if they are holding the charge ey..

[Dicktracey]

Tony a battery can quite easily hold charge but fail under load, buy yourself a $20 digital multimeter and check what voltage your system drops to when you crank then check with winch voltage drop. Do this with engine running and off to compare alternator output.
Pm me your number if you need some more advice mate
Dick

[mustang5]

Not the batteries.. Not the Winch.. Your wires are too small.

6 B&S as a minimum from start batteries to Aux/House.

2 Gauge to the winch.. (Mine has a 120Amp Circuit Breaker!!! You NEED MASSIVE WIRE)

Thin wires with small mm2 area may work for a while, but as they diminish strand by strand you will have this issue.

Ask your sparky to check the setup and test for Voltage drop. Longer the wire for those loads, the bigger the Diameter required.

[netmaker]

it hasn't been mentioned yet but is possible... my ctek stopped charging properly last year. all the lights indicated it was all good but it wasn't actually charging. try charging your deep cycle on a different charger just in case?

[Back In Black]

Not the batteries.. Not the Winch.. Your wires are too small.

6 B&S as a minimum from start batteries to Aux/House.

2 Gauge to the winch.. (Mine has a 120Amp Circuit Breaker!!! You NEED MASSIVE WIRE)

Thin wires with small mm2 area may work for a while, but as they diminish strand by strand you will have this issue.

Ask your sparky to check the setup and test for Voltage drop. Longer the wire for those loads, the bigger the Diameter required.

Hi Mustang,
Thing is its worked for the last 2 years, so the infrastructure must be correct.

Tony

[Back In Black]

it hasn't been mentioned yet but is possible... my ctek stopped charging properly last year. all the lights indicated it was all good but it wasn't actually charging. try charging your deep cycle on a different charger just in case?

I'm fairly sure it's OK Dave, as I bought Juna an electric reel on Friday to save her shoulder & bought a 32 amp?? deep cycle battery to run her reel off, & it charged up a treat.

So now apart from testing the batteries, you've got to test your charging equipment as well. Where does it stop, testing the testing gear??

By the way, she caught her first fish with it, a nice pearly, & I didn't have to drop everything & rush over & help!

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hi Mustang,
Thing is its worked for the last 2 years, so the infrastructure must be correct.

Tony

Hey Tony, if you read Mustangs explanation below - he may be on to something.

Thin wires with small mm2 area may work for a while, but as they diminish strand by strand you will have this issue.

If you are going through a process of elimination - would be cheaper to replace the cable to the winch than buy new batteries.
Certainly wouldn't hurt to have larger cables.

Ever try jump starting a car with a thin set of cheap jumper cables?.........

Mark

[Back In Black]

Hey Tony, if you read Mustangs explanation below - he may be on to something.

Thin wires with small mm2 area may work for a while, but as they diminish strand by strand you will have this issue.

If you are going through a process of elimination - would be cheaper to replace the cable to the winch than buy new batteries.
Certainly wouldn't hurt to have larger cables.

Ever try jump starting a car with a thin set of cheap jumper cables?.........

Mark

Hi Mark,
Maybe I should read the WHOLE thing before commenting. Good point Mustang. I'll get maintenance man to look at that tomorrow when he is here.

Good comment to about the thin jumper cables. Thats why mine I can barely carry because they are that thick. Bit like myself at times...........

Tony

[Spaniard_King]

Check Your switch gear for battery voltage drop... these deteriate as quick as anything else but always seem to be left alone when they should be replaced

[Back In Black]

Check Your switch gear for battery drop... these deteriate as quick as anything else but always seem to be left alone when they should be replaced

Garry, Do you mean the physical switches themselves, like the winch, house etc??

If so, is it as simple as putting a multimeter on it??

If we get stuck tomorrow, would you mind if I called & you spoke to my maintenance man??

No good me trying to translate to him- be as successful as me discussing botanical nomenclature with an accountant!!

Thanks,
Tony

[Fed]

it would help to know how it's connected.

1 or 2 motors?
3 x Batteries?
1 x Winch
1 x bunch of electronics?

How is it all wired together?

If the winch cables go back to the 'accessories' battery which also supplies the electronics then an undersize or faulty winch cable wouldn't set off the low voltage alarms on the electronics.

It has to be something that is common to both the winch and the electronics.

Really only guessing without knowing how it's wired mate.

[Back In Black]

it would help to know how it's connected.

1 or 2 motors?
3 x Batteries?
1 x Winch
1 x bunch of electronics?

How is it all wired together?

If the winch cables go back to the 'accessories' battery which also supplies the electronics then an undersize or faulty winch cable wouldn't set off the low voltage alarms on the electronics.

It has to be something that is common to both the winch and the electronics.

Really only guessing without knowing how it's wired mate.

Fed, All of the above. 2 motors, 3 batteries(2 start & 1 house), 1 winch, Furuno 585, Garmin GPS, autopilot.

Mate, I couldn't tell you how its wired. We'll look into it tomorrow & hopefully get some answers.

I really appreciate all the input. I'll collate it all & get Dean (maintenance man) to work his way through all the suggestions.

Thanks again guys,

Tony

[Spaniard_King]

Garry, Do you mean the physical switches themselves, like the winch, house etc??

If so, is it as simple as putting a multimeter on it??

If we get stuck tomorrow, would you mind if I called & you spoke to my maintenance man??

No good me trying to translate to him- be as successful as me discussing botanical nomenclature with an accountant!!

Thanks,
Tony

He needs to measure the voltage at specific points in the electrical system when you are cranking the engine.. easy to similate..just remove the kill cord and crank away.

Ideally fix the earth lead of the multimeter to the earth of the battery in use.. then use the positive lead of the multimeter to work out where the voltage drop is when the engine is being cranked

or ring me

[Back In Black]

He needs to measure the voltage at specific points in the electrical system when you are cranking the engine.. easy to similate..just remove the kill cord and crank away.

Ideally fix the earth lead of the multimeter to the earth of the battery in use.. then use the positive lead of the multimeter to work out where the voltage drop is when the engine is being cranked

or ring me

Thanks Garry- you talk his lingo
I'll give him all the details & he will ring if stuck.

Tony

[MyWay]

Tony something telling me it is your battery or charging system
but who ever did tested your battery did not tested correctly .

[Captain Seaweed]

flux capacitor?

[Back In Black]

Tony something telling me it is your battery or charging system
but who ever did tested your battery did not tested correctly .

I agree MyWay. Took the battery to the auto electrician & he put a thumping big "tester" on it & said its perfect.

Dick Tracey just gave me some good leads on testing both the battery & the VSR unit, so I'll let you know the outcome.

Again, thanks for all the tips guys

Tony

[Dicktracey]

flux capacitor?
Just spoke to Tony Marty he couldn't even get his phone number right so it could be the Flux Capacitor LMFAO

[johndeere]

Have you dismantled and cleaned the isolator switch, you know the 1, 2, both thing!

[Back In Black]

Have you dismantled and cleaned the isolator switch, you know the 1, 2, both thing!

Now you guys are just taking the piss out the dumb arse nurseryman with not an ounce of mechanical skill!! I struggle working out which way to turn a tap. Why do you think I have a maintenance man??

My staff get nervous if they see me walk through the shed with a screwdriver!! It's like, what are you doing with that thing?? Just leave it & call Dean they keep telling me.

[Grand_Marlin]

It could be a few things as stated above.The first thing is to check the connections.
Then confirm the wiring size is correct.
Then check the voltage at the winch when under load.
Also, remember that deep cycle batteries are really designed for slow draw down, not high current draws like a winch or starting a motor.

You may find connecting the winch to the start batteries instead of the deep cycle is the answer.

Cheers


Pete

[Grand_Marlin]

Did you get it sorted??

[Back In Black]

Ho Pete,
All good. Turned out when the battery was taken out at one point, whoever put it back in put a lead on incorrectly. Dean chased it through with the tech from Sailfish on the phone & a secondary lead was put on the wrong terminal.

Charged it up, went fishing & put every light & electrical thing on for several hours. 8.30pm we pulled anchor & everything was perfect!!

Feel confident to go wide now!!

Thanks for all the input guys & the phone call Dick Tracey.

Tony