Effective operating life in engine hours?

[thylacene]

Ok, so corrosion issues aside, what is the expected life of the new generation DI (2 or 4 stroke) outboards. For the sake of the exercise, motors > 150hp

Assumptions;

Water is not allowed to get to the injectors ever!
Engine is serviced every 100 hours
>100 hours operation each year
Engine is propped within specifications
Operation is primarily at 60% of rev range
Warmed up before WOT

[Noelm]

my vote was based on an average persons use, a pro may put twice as many hours on a motor, what it amounts to is... you will never wear out a motor, all the steering bushed, and starter motor and controls and stuff will be all crap before the engine is "worn out"

[Jarrah Jack]

I couldn't vote as there is no category for an Etec,,,

Between 0 - 1 hour.

[SunnyCoastMark]

Oh well - work is slower today - I needed something else to do - wait on a sec while I get comfortable and cook some popcorn...................................

:bigcry::rifle:

:-XX:rifle:

:argue: :argue::argue::rifle:

[thylacene]

Not intended as an Etec bashing thread, just trying to get an idea of people's expectations about the useful life of an engine.

300000 kms seems to be about the limit for motor cars, if avg speed is 50km per hour, that is 6000 hours of operation. In comparison, there is more temperature stability with marine engines, but greater operating load. We have knocked up almost 400 hrs in just over two years so I started wondering how long it should be before I need to start saving for a replacement, and started the poll to get an indication of whether to update. Secondhand values are mediocre at best, I recall being offered $6k for a 4 year old 200 Opti with 320 hours by a dealer as trade on a new verado from a secondhand boat we were negotiating on.

I am off work crook, so thought i would put up a poll to elicit some perceptions.

[Spaniard_King]

You cant expect accurate results when you throw so many different engines in the one question, too many variables so I just voted for 10000+

[ShaneC]

They'll go forever if you keep fixing them.....

[wrxhoon]

If not used commercially, I wouldn't keep it any longer than 10 years/2000 hours , that doesn't mean it won't last longer. In 10 years corrosion starts to be a problem. In your example 10 years.

[thylacene]

D
You cant expect accurate results when you throw so many different engines in the one question, too many variables so I just voted for 10000+

Garry,

Understand, do you think I should have separated 2 and 4 stroke? I would have thought that load and service interval were the key elements for consideration?

Intentionally brand agnostic, even then the first comment was targeted at Etec. This is not about any specific brand, more a question about whether the new tech is perceived as having longevity.

In your professional opinion, given the conditions stated and limiting your response to a four stroke how many hours should a consumer reasonably expect to get out of an engine? Happy for a response that is brnd specific to what you sell should you choose to do so.

For the sake of it, 40 percent spent at 60% of max revs, the balance trolling. That describes our typical usage patterns.

For the record, my estimate would be 3500 hours before valve train wear took its toll on a four stroke.

Cheers

Thy

[Spaniard_King]

Thy,

I can show you an ECU print out of a 75hp EFI Honda with more than 12000 hrs with 10000 hrs about 2000rpm.

As far as I can tell it has the original powerhead. This engine did more than 10hrs a day (2008 model)

[thylacene]

Thy,

I can show you an ECU print out of a 75hp EFI Honda with more than 12000 hrs with 10000 hrs about 2000rpm.

As far as I can tell it has the original powerhead. This engine did more than 10hrs a day (2008 model)

Testament to a quality product, you would have to assume that it wasn't getting a full service each fortnight. Was it showing signs of age? Oil consumption?

If I get half that out of our current engine I would be very happy.

[Jarrah Jack]

Thy...My Etec comment was never meant to be taken seriously.

[thylacene]

Thy...My Etec comment was never meant to be taken seriously.

It wasn't :)

[johncar]

Assuming recreational or intermittent use I thought 3000 - 4000hrs should be achievable. Commercial frequent and long haul use would be higher no doubt so 10K hrs+ seems doable.

[timddo]

5000 hours for four strokes. Etecs are 301 hours.

[ozscott]

I am not voting cause I dont know the answer. I know blokes with Merc dealerships that have had commercial use Optimax's with over 4000 hours and perfect condition in terms of compression, observable things etc. They just trade up for reliability and because its 100% deductible. They then go to private owners for irregular/regular recreational use and just keep going for years and years. Hot miles of course are the best for any engine.

I think the proven 4 strokes like Yammy, Honda, Suzzi, will generally go at least 4,000 hours for a recreational fish who properly looks after them and keeps the water out and probably longer, but sitting kills these motors like any other high tech motor earlier than is desirable.

Cheers

[CATchin'Em]

Very broad question which makes it very hard are we talking power head only? If so I see no reason for up to ten thousand being an issue. It is all the bolt ons that die early and now using real fuel filters, 2 micron high efficiency fuel filters is almost certainly needed as injectors will have tighter tolerances which in turn reduces ability to handle any contamination. My yams 100 4 strokeshave cost me almost 4k each for outside of service general repairs thus far and not ten year old yet but all bolt on stuff starters, rectifiers, trim ant tilt, steering bushes, and piss poor wiring. But the power head is like new

[TimiBoy]

It's a "thinking question" isn't it? So many people just don't have a clue. When I was selling my 685 with a 250 Verado, it had about 550 hours on it. People wouldn't even come and look because they thought that was a lot of hours.

I haven't voted because I don't know.

[tunaticer]

The key point you specified is 100 hour servicing......a well maintained engine could and should go beyond your 10 000 hour mark. that is not to say it will not have any major items replaced like ignition pack, fuel pump or starter motor. The engine should easily last that long and be reliable if you are prepared to replace those items as needed.

[Schulzy]

Thy,

I can show you an ECU print out of a 75hp EFI Honda with more than 12000 hrs with 10000 hrs about 2000rpm.

As far as I can tell it has the original powerhead. This engine did more than 10hrs a day (2008 model)

That's awesome amount of hours! could it be fair to say that a more regularly used motor will last as well as a motor that gets used irregularly, but has big hours. In your professional opinion.

[Feral]

I'd reckon you wouldn't want it to be costing you more than a dollar an hour, so I'd reckon 10K hours plus.

[Dan5]

Personally did 4700hrs with my 2000 model Suzuki 70 fourstroke..........also know of some pro fishing engines that have done 5k plus aswell and have lived their working life in saltwater only on mackeral dorys.All of these engines were self serviced and only ever got serviced when time permitted and not by a strict 100hr interval.

Dan

[stevej]

i dont seem to hold onto boats very long, so have seen quite a few engines in various states of neglect

the worst examples were 2-3 year old outboards with very little use, rusted up steering components boxes that wouldnt come off and so on
basically older guys buying that last boat then not using it due to physical limitations due to old age

i couldnt even get the box off a 3 year old 40hp 4 stroke merc that had 3 hours on it and gave up when he suggested heating it up with his blowtorch

much better off buying a boat regularly used with a good service history

[Lucky_Phill]

A commercial operator on the Sunny Coast had twin Hondas ( originally 90hp carby ) and traded them in at 4500hrs, only for tax purposes, nothing wrong with the motors. He now runs Yammie 4 bangers.... no other reason other than the deal.

Trades motors about the 5000hrs and has a compression test done to prove condition.

Garry ( Spaniard King ) told me, my 2003 Honda 130 EFI would outlast me...... so far 1000hrs on it and going strong.

Can't comment on 2 stroke DI motors...

cheers LP

[Lovey80]

For me my 60hp Yammie four strokes have to last just long enough until a manufacturer makes a 90hp four stroke that is light enough to bolt on to my 5.2KC. I fear though to achieve this the life of the new engines may be diminished.

[tangled-lines]

Have heard that outboard motors are built with the operating environment in mind, similar to the reliability one needs in aircraft engines. Considering that the aviation authorities require an overhaul at 2000 hrs, I voted between 2000-3000 hrs, for reliability more than absolute necessity. They may go a lot longer, but I'm not sure how far I'd want to go offshore without an auxiliary. I believe they test aviation angines at WOT on a workbench to see how many hours they do till they fail, not sure what they do with outboard engines though.

[ThePinkPanther]

A Commercial crabber got 6500 hours EACH out of his two 90 hp Honda 4-strokes some years back over a couple of years crabbin' and that simply proves that, like Taxi Cabs, more use is better.

A recreational boat operator is classed as a "normal" user if he logs up 100 hours a hear - hard to believe but true.

A "Low" user will be in the vicinity of fifty hours.

I dragged these figures out somewhere from MSQ many years back plus the fact I have kept a log book for my fifty two years of boating - yep, I really did do that! I have 6000 hours in boats so not too far out considering a lot of sea time was logged with VMR.

Eight years with VMR and just simply chatting with Boaties, Coastguard guys and boat dealers has convinced me I am pretty close to the right figures above but if you find they are way off the mark, drop a reply back here. Of course weather like we have had the last six or so months chucks the stats way out of kilter. Like I have done ten hours in seven months ........................

But I digress from the subject being engine longevity...........

1. Treat your motor like you did your first chic (F) the first couple of years (Lots of TLC!)
2. Cover the powerhead and leg with all sorts of sprays and anti rust gunk
3. Flush it with fresh water and add an upper cyclinder lubricant (Macs) after EVERY run
4. ALWAYS leave the leg fully DOWN between uses
5. NEVER flog it more than 75% of max power except the odd burst at MAX RPM for a few minutes now and then
6. Operate over a WIDE range of RPM and not just forever stuck on say 4000 RPM
7. Trim it to the optimum "angle of attack" through the water, neither too far bow up or bow down
8. Keep the fuel/oil ratio mix spot on (if applicable)
9. NEVER use old fuel or oil (the crabbers don't)
10. Get EVERY manufacturers recommended service done right on time from a reputable dealer (if you can find such a person!)
11. Run the motor on the trailer EVERY week if you haven't been out fishin' til it reaches normal operating temperature for at least five minutes
12. Keep ALL the ancilliary stuff like batteries, starter motors, impellors etc. all in good shape - it does help in the long run

I don't think there is ONE single thing that keeps the donk running forever, just a combination of techniques, actions, recommendations and common sense!

I had a 1975 Blue Band (?) 115 hp Mercury in Papua New Guinea for fifteen (15) years. It was a real work horse doing water skiing every weekend in the Magic Waters of Port Moresby for up to ten hours over the two days, flogged up and down the coastline fishing and logging up 1500 engine hours before it died a proud and graceful death - and I did most of, or maybe even ALL of the above to the old girl - bless it's heart!

The more modern donks than mine above should comfortably reach 3,000 engine hours I reckon but you could have a careless, engine bashing clown get less than 1,000 hours out of one motor whereas a professional and caring owner may get the 3,000 simply because he knows how to look after his motor.

Horses for courses I guess!

[stevemid]

A car that goes 300,000km - all highway miles - averaging 100 km/hr would do 3000 hours. Same car that never left the city averaging 50 km/hr would do 6000 hours. Engines produce the most pollution and contaminants when they are cold and burn these off after they reach operating temps. If the car above made all short trips - never fully warmed up, I doubt you'd get to 3000 hours.

Pink panther seems to have nailed it.

[nathan dumschat]

Hi All,
Ive been involved in the reef fishing Industry for many years and get around with my eyes open. Boats that are used on a regular basis are more reliable than the ones that dont. Proven fact as every thing is moving all the time hence minimizes corrosion and seizing up etc
I know of 30 foot plus houseboats up at Tin Can Bay that do 6000 hrs with 50/60 hp yammys. These motors have many different drivers as they get hired out . This environment that they live in would be one of the worse as they live in the water and constantly pump mud when the punters run aground and just get flogged and misused. My advise is to look at commercial fleets as they want reliability, fuel efficiency, minimal service costs, and fair trade in prices. There are three brands mainly Suzuki,Yamaha and Honda used commercially there has to be a reason for this. Ive heard to many issues with the brand mentioned earlier in this post that claim 300 hr sevice intervals and in this day and age would probably steer away from the 2 strokes.I own a 60hp Yammy four stroke and could not be happier. Did a offshore trip the other day of 40 nm for a fuel burn of $37.Boating doesnt get much cheaper than this. In my research I have found that smaller outboards in the commercial sector are probably going to get worked harder than bigger engines due to loads,under powering as a lot of trolling done etc, so would assume you would get larger hours out of larger engines . Hope this helps

Nathan

[Spaniard_King]

Hi All,
Ive been involved in the reef fishing Industry for many years and get around with my eyes open. Boats that are used on a regular basis are more reliable than the ones that dont. Proven fact as every thing is moving all the time hence minimizes corrosion and seizing up etc
I know of 30 foot plus houseboats up at Tin Can Bay that do 6000 hrs with 50/60 hp yammys. These motors have many different drivers as they get hired out . This environment that they live in would be one of the worse as they live in the water and constantly pump mud when the punters run aground and just get flogged and misused. My advise is to look at commercial fleets as they want reliability, fuel efficiency, minimal service costs, and fair trade in prices. There are three brands mainly Suzuki,Yamaha and Honda used commercially there has to be a reason for this. Ive heard to many issues with the brand mentioned earlier in this post that claim 300 hr sevice intervals and in this day and age would probably steer away from the 2 strokes.I own a 60hp Yammy four stroke and could not be happier. Did a offshore trip the other day of 40 nm for a fuel burn of $37.Boating doesnt get much cheaper than this. In my research I have found that smaller outboards in the commercial sector are probably going to get worked harder than bigger engines due to loads,under powering as a lot of trolling done etc, so would assume you would get larger hours out of larger engines . Hope this helps

Nathan

Why do you think this??

Its very rare to see a non comercial engine of any brand with over 2000 hrs

[stevemid]

Why do you think this??

Its very rare to see a non comercial engine of any brand with over 2000 hrs

Well, let's put this into perspective: 2000 hours is more than you'd spend in a year in a full time job. In addition to Work, getting ready, going to and coming from also takes up a lot of valuable daylight hours. Then there's family; spending time with the wife and kids is a big investment. then there's the other manly duties: doing the lawns & gardens, maintaining all things mechanical, etc. etc Last (usually) comes recreation. If you do no other recreating, there is precious little time left for fishing. AND not all fishing involves running the motor In fact, I'd say it is a special type who would put 2000 hours on an engine in a 5-7 year period.

Steve

[Spaniard_King]

Yep.... they call them bill fishermen

[FishHunter]

A Commercial crabber got 6500 hours EACH out of his two 90 hp Honda 4-strokes some years back over a couple of years crabbin' and that simply proves that, like Taxi Cabs, more use is better.

A recreational boat operator is classed as a "normal" user if he logs up 100 hours a hear - hard to believe but true.

A "Low" user will be in the vicinity of fifty hours.

I dragged these figures out somewhere from MSQ many years back plus the fact I have kept a log book for my fifty two years of boating - yep, I really did do that! I have 6000 hours in boats so not too far out considering a lot of sea time was logged with VMR.

Eight years with VMR and just simply chatting with Boaties, Coastguard guys and boat dealers has convinced me I am pretty close to the right figures above but if you find they are way off the mark, drop a reply back here. Of course weather like we have had the last six or so months chucks the stats way out of kilter. Like I have done ten hours in seven months ........................

But I digress from the subject being engine longevity...........

1. Treat your motor like you did your first chic (F) the first couple of years (Lots of TLC!)
2. Cover the powerhead and leg with all sorts of sprays and anti rust gunk
3. Flush it with fresh water and add an upper cyclinder lubricant (Macs) after EVERY run
4. ALWAYS leave the leg fully DOWN between uses
5. NEVER flog it more than 75% of max power except the odd burst at MAX RPM for a few minutes now and then
6. Operate over a WIDE range of RPM and not just forever stuck on say 4000 RPM
7. Trim it to the optimum "angle of attack" through the water, neither too far bow up or bow down
8. Keep the fuel/oil ratio mix spot on (if applicable)
9. NEVER use old fuel or oil (the crabbers don't)
10. Get EVERY manufacturers recommended service done right on time from a reputable dealer (if you can find such a person!)
11. Run the motor on the trailer EVERY week if you haven't been out fishin' til it reaches normal operating temperature for at least five minutes
12. Keep ALL the ancilliary stuff like batteries, starter motors, impellors etc. all in good shape - it does help in the long run

I don't think there is ONE single thing that keeps the donk running forever, just a combination of techniques, actions, recommendations and common sense!

I had a 1975 Blue Band (?) 115 hp Mercury in Papua New Guinea for fifteen (15) years. It was a real work horse doing water skiing every weekend in the Magic Waters of Port Moresby for up to ten hours over the two days, flogged up and down the coastline fishing and logging up 1500 engine hours before it died a proud and graceful death - and I did most of, or maybe even ALL of the above to the old girl - bless it's heart!

The more modern donks than mine above should comfortably reach 3,000 engine hours I reckon but you could have a careless, engine bashing clown get less than 1,000 hours out of one motor whereas a professional and caring owner may get the 3,000 simply because he knows how to look after his motor.

Horses for courses I guess!

I cannot convey how strongly I disagree with the highlighted statement. Remind me to never buy a motor from you. 99% of all engine wear takes place during the warmup phase so all that weekly start is doing is putting more wear and tear on the motor. Far more than running at max power continuously.

[stevemid]

ThePinkPanther is obviously someone who knows and loves his gear. Great post there pp! Fishhunter seemed to agree with everything except warming up the motor once a week. He makes the same point as the TV commercial: that most engine wear occurs just as the engine first starts. That sounds logical to me. (in fact when I saw the commercial ad I was thinking "why not put in an electric primer oil pump which you'd run 10 to 15 secods before starting the engine.

ThePinkPanther: what is your thinking behind running the motor weekly?

Respect to all,

Steve

[mustang5]

2004 yammy 4 stroke. I brought the boat for a steal looking to repower based on hours(no chance to inspect on import). However couldn't believe the condition it was in when arrived.

Arrived with 1870hrs, and I have out on 160hrs in 4 months. 2030 all up and only have fuel line issue.

On the other hand, I have a work boat Quinny with a 40hp yam 2 stroke. This thing was used 11hrs per day for 2 years pushing beetle barges and also pushing 60m barges anchor to anchor. It was used to pull ropes, silt curtains and transport passengers.

Never serviced in 2 years.. Oil never measured just poured in to the tank.

Still starts first pull.


I would say there is 1 common denominator here. It's a thing called USAGE

[LoungeLizard]

I cannot convey how strongly I disagree with the highlighted statement. Remind me to never buy a motor from you. 99% of all engine wear takes place during the warmup phase so all that weekly start is doing is putting more wear and tear on the motor. Far more than running at max power continuously.

So by your logic charter boat motors that are stopped/started many times a day should have a very short lifespan?

Once a week might be overkill but running the motor regularly is a GOOD thing. The damage done to a motor due to corrosion etc. by just sitting for months on end is far worse than the startup wear and tear.

[FishHunter]

So by your logic charter boat motors that are stopped/started many times a day should have a very short lifespan?

Once a week might be overkill but running the motor regularly is a GOOD thing. The damage done to a motor due to corrosion etc. by just sitting for months on end is far worse than the startup wear and tear.

It's not my logic it's a proven scientifically measured fact. Note it's COLD starts that cause the most wear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab 10.1 using Tapatalk HD

[Giffo65]

I bought my 2007 Yammy 4 banger off a commercial fisho in Caloundra (had 2 on a Coastal cat) It had about 2000 hours on it and the price I paid was in line with the hours.

"I'd say it is a special type who would put 2000 hours on an engine in a 5-7 year period."

living in Bundy for 5 years,any trip was a long way,the last service just before Xmas by Butler Marine in Bundy ,I had put on about 450 hours in about 18 months ( I don"t have hour metre on boat,no gauges ).This Yammy still fires up first go and goes like a new one. I do love my fishing and go at every opportunity. I also have a wife and 3 kids to spend time with, so not living the single man life fishing when not working.
I have just bought a boat with a Honda 130 with 207 hrs,I hope to add to those numbers greatly !