Overwidth Boat Towing

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Guys,

I was at the weighbridge today and the topic of overwidth towing came up.
According to the Guru, a passenger car can not tow an over dimensional load, it has to be a commercial vehicle (eg truck)

Apparently this has been checked with their insurance company and is correct.

I haven't personally verified it with Qld Transport, but it is something for all the "American Import" owners to chase up.

Always the same... insurance companies not pointing out the finer details... no doubt it would be in the fine print somewhere...

Cheers

Pete

[fisho64]

certainly not the case here in WA. In fact they relaxed it last year to allow overwidth towing at night up to 2.7 meters.

[Captain Seaweed]

will have to check that, what if your passenger vehicle is registered as a commercial vehicle? Or do I simply need a truck?

[Grand_Marlin]

Registered as commercial vehicle were his words.
So I would assume you can register a Landcruiser as a commercial vehicle.
He then went on to say that registering an F250 as a commercial vehicle allows you to step around the 3.5 tonne towing limit.

All comments are from a guy who should be in the know, but I haven't verified anything.

Cheers

Pete

[Captain Seaweed]

Our landcruiser has commercial rego FYI

[ShaneC]

Sorry but I'm calling bullshit. An F250, regardless of registration can be rated to 4.5 or 4.6 tonnes, its capacity is its capacity. I recently had a chat with someone 'in the know' from the DOT about load sharing suspensions on big set ups and he was, as it turned out, 100% wrong!! They are up there with the best for making stuff up on the spot, usually to the detriment of some poor soul on the side of the road. There is one interesting rule that they are thinking of throwing out there that there must be at least a metre between wheel centres on a dual axle trailer (turned out that is true!) and I reckon there'd be a few out there with issues on that one.......

[tunaticer]

I wonder if the ruling applies to the dimensional parameters not the towing capacity parameters?
Towing oversize does not mean heavy by any means.
I send oversize items interstate regularly with various freight companies and whilst some items are up to 5 metres wide on the road, they may only weigh 1500kgs, but an entirely different ball park with rules and regulations.
It could be entirely dimensional without being capacity oriented.

[ShaneC]

I can't see why, but that doesn't mean I'm right. I would have thunk that if you are towing within the vehicles capacity and following the rules for oversize (times, lights, flags etc) you'd be ok. Insurance companies generally base their rules on legalities, ie if its legal you're fine, if its not you're goneski....

[Captain Seaweed]

On a fair note, not enough is known with the whole oversize trailer boat towing in my opinion. Yeah the government put out a memo on it but where does it mention commercial rego? I spoke to a mate that tows oversize and the local copper told him not to bother with signs/flags and flashing lights locally unless he is going long distance. I would love a clear cut black and white version of what the rules are.

[Captain Seaweed]

BTW we are talking about a boat that is 2.58 beam and therefore 8cm oversize and needs flags, flashing lights, and signage. all for 4 cm each side.

[thylacene]

Standard laws across the country would be good, as well as some plain English examples provided by the regulatory authority.

Found this on the NSW RTA site http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/downloads/operating_conditions-oversize_overmass.pdf

It has a specific reference to boat towing, but the definition of vehicle is very broad, I am uncertain as to whether or not a landcruiser or f250 qualifies.

The minimum width limit is 2500 and different rules as the load widens.

From my understanding, there is no provision for overweight (above towing capacity or trailer gtm) for anything you are likely to tow a boat with.

[nelton87]

I think this clarifies it for Qld Use
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/busind/Heavyvehicles/guidepermits/Pdf_class_permit_220_th_12.pdf
Cheers
Nelton

[nelton87]

Main Points to Note are as follows,
Part 1.2 Vehicles eligible to operate under this permit must have a gross vehicle mass not exceeding 4.5
tonnes.(So that covers all private vehicles) and

2 Vehicle conditions
2.1
The vehicle or towing vehicle must have sufficient capacity to safely carry and/or tow the load.
(manufacturer’s ratings must not be exceeded for the vehicle, trailer and any towing components)

So I am sure that clarifies it for Qld
Cheers
Nelton

[thylacene]

As to insurance, each company has a product disclosure statement. For example, NRMA stae no coverage if the vehicle, or trailer is unsafe or being towed illegally. Assuming you are towing within the specification of a permit, and vehicle and trailer are safe and roadworthy then all should be good. Because each has their own, check with your insurer and get a written response.

[SatNav]

23/2/2013 nelton87 wrote:
"Part 1.2 Vehicles eligible to operate under this permit must have a gross vehicle mass not exceeding 4.5
tonnes.(So that covers all private vehicles) and

2 Vehicle conditions
2.1
The vehicle or towing vehicle must have sufficient capacity to safely carry and/or tow the load.
(manufacturer’s ratings must not be exceeded for the vehicle, trailer and any towing components)"

1. True GVM must be less than 4.5 tonnes otherwise for towing excess the vehicle comes under the main excess dimensions guidelines


2. False re covers "all' private vehicles as the GCM must be OVER 4.5 tonnes (not to be confused with the less than 4.5t GVM rule)



23/2/2013 ShaneC wrote:
"There is one interesting rule that they are thinking of throwing out there that there must be at least a metre between wheel centres on a dual axle trailer (turned out that is true!) and I reckon there'd be a few out there with issues on that one......."


3. More than 1m has always been the rule otherwise a dual axle trailer is deemed to be a single configuration for purposes of braking etc. What would the issues be on that one? Very few trailers requiring dual axles have tyre sizes that allow the under 1m rule to apply.

[ShaneC]

When I heard that rule I went and had a squiz at a few trailers at the ramp 200m down the street and less than one metre between wheel centres was a common theme. Maybe I dreamt it?? My mates big trailer with 15 inch wheels recently passed for roadworthy was 950mm between the axles. THAT may be the issue.... Maybe I'm just looking at the very few you speak of....

[SatNav]

1. Ok then lets rewind a little. Which 1m rule was getting thrown out? There can be some contradiction on this one?

2. Would this then mean multi axle trailers would have to have load sharing suspensions? Now yes that would cause every multi axle boat trailer much pain.

[bugman]

Or you could do as someone I know.... And remove all signs flags and lights so as not to draw any attention to themselves as they drive up the highway.
All good unless something goes wrong I guess.
Brett

[lee8sec]

Sorry but I'm calling bullshit. An F250, regardless of registration can be rated to 4.5 or 4.6 tonnes, its capacity is its capacity. I recently had a chat with someone 'in the know' from the DOT about load sharing suspensions on big set ups and he was, as it turned out, 100% wrong!! They are up there with the best for making stuff up on the spot, usually to the detriment of some poor soul on the side of the road. There is one interesting rule that they are thinking of throwing out there that there must be at least a metre between wheel centres on a dual axle trailer (turned out that is true!) and I reckon there'd be a few out there with issues on that one.......

Have you got a link to the above 1m axle story ?
It is less than 1 meter to be a tandem trailer, over 1m is a pig, dog or heavy transport trailer in NSW, from memory Qld is the same.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib03.pdf

[Apollo]

Pete

If you have one of your trailers to measure, give me a yell and I will hold the dumb end!!!!

Steve

[ShaneC]

I may have to stand corrected. Once again, could be false info from someone 'in the know'. I spoke to a licenced hvrc guy about it for my new trailer and he agreed with the DOT guy. The same dot guy who said anything over 2 tonne had to have load sharing suspensions. Just goes to show hey.......

[Dicko]

Or you could do as someone I know.... And remove all signs flags and lights so as not to draw any attention to themselves as they drive up the highway.
All good unless something goes wrong I guess.
Brett

That's not as silly as it sounds. Several mths ago I had a major accident in my cruiser towing a yank import with a 2.58m beam vs a B double.

Half a dozen cops, traffic accident investigation mob, insurance assessors etc & No one questioned it. Cruiser & Boat written off & Insurance paid out.

[Johnm]

Or you could do as someone I know.... And remove all signs flags and lights so as not to draw any attention to themselves as they drive up the highway.
All good unless something goes wrong I guess.
Brett

This is a good way to have the current scheme removed and have to apply for permits.
All boat trailers are technically pig trailers because there is one axle or combination and weight transferred to the tow vehicle by means of the tow ball. Number of axles doesn't matter.

[cormorant]

That's not as silly as it sounds. Several mths ago I had a major accident in my cruiser towing a yank import with a 2.58m beam vs a B double.

Half a dozen cops, traffic accident investigation mob, insurance assessors etc & No one questioned it. Cruiser & Boat written off & Insurance paid out.


I'd be buying a lottery ticket or 10? That is one hell of a expensive accident. I have read of imported wake boats down here have huge issues to the point of the blue slip provider being followed up and disputed insurance.

[myusernam]

There seem to be quite a lot of newly imported overwidth boats up for sale cheap (not trying to make a profit). I wonder if those people import and then discover insurance/ towing issues.

[cormorant]

There is a big awareness down here with the skiing crowd as the local police near the river and ski clubs are well aware what is legal. Seen a couple sitting on a legal trailer that has a hydraulic ram to tilt the boat 30 degrees like the offshore race boats but what a hassle putting the wakeboard tower back up etc etc. They looked well supported but the hull was never designed to have weight on its sides like that . They are just so cheap to import and brilliant if you had next to water storage.