Father and two sons rescued after their boat overturned in waters near Moreton Islan

[fishing111]

Dad, sons wait two hours for sea rescue

6:36PM Brittany Vonow A FATHER and his two sons have been rescued after their boat overturned between Moreton and North Stradbroke Island today.

A FATHER and his two sons have been rescued after their boat overturned between Moreton and North Stradbroke Island today.

The family, including a nine-year-old and a six-year-old boy, were in the South Passage Bar about 1pm when their boat tipped, sending them into the water.

The 42-year-old father managed to activate the boat's EPIRB, with the Westpac Lifesaver helicopter rescue service called to help the family.

Westpac Lifesaver helicopter rescue service operations manager Eddie Bennet said the family had spent about two hours in the water before the helicopter was able to find them just before 3pm.

"The six-year-old was in a reasonably bad state, going into semi-consciousness," he said.

"It was very fortunate we were able to find them quite quickly."

All three were winched to safety and flown to the Royal Brisbane Hospital for treatment.

I wonder if the EPIRB was a GPS model or a regular model. 2 hours is a long time to be in the water so close to a capital city if the CM has it right.

[Still_Dreamin]

I sitting on Flinders beach and was fishing at that time and was none the wiser. Only thing slightly abnormal was two jet ski slsa from cylinders and point lookout were cruising the bar. Saw the chopper much earlier. Dare i suggest CM not entirely correct?? Or should i go looking for boat/gear tomorrow morning

[Donkeyzmilk]

2 hours in the water , i wouldn't exactly say they found them quite quickly! ive been on major no where places dirt biking and got a chopper for downed riders within 20 mins no epirb

[WalrusLike]

I really don't understand all this. If the beacon goes off then how come the rescue chopper doesn't have df gear to locate it?

Maybe the beacon and the fellas got separated.

But if not, then wouldn't you reckon all rescue craft would have direction finding gear? If they fly a pass south of the area then head north they ought to get a pretty decent fix shouldn't they?

I have never used df gear.., just know the general principal so maybe its not that good..., but if a park ranger can locate a radio collared fox by df you'd reckon a distress beacon would be easy to find.

[NAGG]

Does anyone else feel that taking two young boys (6 & 9) out through the SPB is a little irresponsible (specially when you are the only adult on board) Maybe it's just me .... but I would never put young children in that position .

Chris

[tunaticer]

Two hours to find them huh??
Where was the chopper when the call was raised? North Coast, South Coast, on the tarmac......crew standing by or did they have to be rousted? The chopper could well have been the first available chopper in the area, the others could have been on other duties out of the area or down for maintenance. The chopper that did respond could well have had to finish a previous job before attending to a S&R. Entirely possible that it was delivering an emergency patient to RBH or anything.
I think the world has got all too pretentious and precious about how immediately the world should jump for them.
I think all the emergency teams do their damned best to save a life at every call out...
If ever there was a true hero named it should be every one of those rescue people, not these sporting people that get the admirations.

I think two hours is reasonable for a S&R effort orchestrated from Canberra.
Good on the rescue team that did the job.

P.S. The SLSC jetskis were apparently running in the area......and yet the chopper was required to find them??? That asks more questions to me than the response time.

[banksmister]

Father and children rescued from overturned boat
By Shannon Holloway

Feb. 9, 2013, 8:30 a.m.
A FATHER and his two children are recovering from minor injuries in the Royal Brisbane Hospital after the six metre fibreglass boat they were travelling in overturned on the south passage bar.


At about 4pm on Saturday, the Highgate Hill father's boat hit a large object in the water south of North Stradbroke Island, overturning the boat.
Officer in charge of the Brisbane Water Police Senior Sergeant Warren Francis said all three occupants were rescued from the water by the Surf Life Saving Queensland rescue helicopter.
“They were rescued at about 4.30pm but the father and his two children were all wearing lifejackets,”he said.
Snr Sgt Francis said the father was very prepared and had taught his children about water safety.


“He had practiced drills with his kids about water and marine safety. Because of that the kids were well prepared,” he said.
“The father was able to tell the kids to stick together and keep swimming.”
He said the overturned boat would be recovered on Sunday.
For more news on this read Tuesday’s Bayside Bulletin.

[banksmister]

Best people wait for the whole story before you drag the bloke out and stone him to death hey.;)

[marto78]

I wonder if it actually took 2 hrs to find them and it's not just the CM trying to sensaitonalize the story a bit more by exaggerating the time.

[marto78]

I didn't see Banksmister's post before but I was about to post a link to the same article. A big difference in times there.

[fishing111]

The media has gone to shit in my opinion. There in such a rush to get the story out that they don't give a shit about the facts. I mean who do you believe media wise, the CM or the other paper. 30 mins vs 2 hours is a huge difference! I suppose the only person i'd believe is the actual guy and kids who got rescued.

[SunnyCoastMark]

Does anyone else feel that taking two young boys (6 & 9) out through the SPB is a little irresponsible (specially when you are the only adult on board) Maybe it's just me .... but I would never put young children in that position .

Chris

I don't think you can really make that call for the father in question Nagg. - Irresposible is a bit harsh unless you know all the facts

Depends upon a lot of factors. The kids had life jackets on and the boat was a reasonable size. Not like it was a 4 metre tinny......

I think most of us would have had our kids offshore, through various bars etc. in various conditions - It is a judgement call that you make on the day and short of actually being there, I certainly wouldn't go making a judgement call against the father..............

Just sayin...

mark

[NAGG]

I don't think you can really make that call for the father in question Nagg. - Irresposible is a bit harsh unless you know all the facts

Depends upon a lot of factors. The kids had life jackets on and the boat was a reasonable size. Not like it was a 4 metre tinny......

I think most of us would have had our kids offshore, through various bars etc. in various conditions - It is a judgement call that you make on the day and short of actually being there, I certainly wouldn't go making a judgement call against the father..............

Just sayin...

mark

No we dont have all the facts - that's true
However - we do know that SPB is a big dangerous bar - There were 2 young children on board (one very young @ 6yo) & only 1 adult ...... Can you see where I'm going ?
Actually ...... I feel that Irresponsible is just about right
Regardless of the training & the life jackets & the 6 M boat .......... It still went over . It's just my opinion that those young kids should never be put in that situation without a second capable adult on board (what if the father was knocked out or one of the children got into difficulty) & just how well prepared can a 6YO be ?

I'm sure we'll hear more of this

Chris

[Nicko_Cairns]

http://www.amsa.gov.au/publications/Fact_sheets/Beacons_FaQ.pdf

If it was a non-GPS EPIRB then this was a pretty quick rescue.

Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is
no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90
minutes on average to receive the signal but it may
take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions.
More information is needed to determine the real
location. This usually means at least two satellite
passes &/or independent intelligence is required to
determine a location and this takes more time. Non
GPS has an location accuracy of 5km.

[death_ship]

Plenty of swell about yesterday. I did see the chopper around mid morning here at straddy. I think it was a 1pm low tide. Not the best idea with flood debris, east swell, and low tide.

[wave dancer]

Thats a very interesting comment nagg. Two kids should be accompanied by two adults in case one of the adults is knocked out. How many times on this site and other sites do you read about a solo trip out through the bar. A recipe for disaster. One slip, knocked out, no life jacket, boat rolls and no epird activation. More then likely one outcome (dead). As for the age of the kids, i think they would get alot more enjoyment from a day in the bay where they can catch and pull in their own fish ( ie whitting, bream, flatties etc) and if the boredom sets in they can be easily taken to a large number of sandy places for a swim and run around. We all know you never get the true facts from the media lets just hope we aren't reading about these events more often. Wrong or right its never good to hear things like this.

Cheers Mick.....

[Captain Seaweed]

I read another story they were in an open boat. I jumped onto Seabreeze as I regularly use that bar to see what conditions they were up against. I saw 15 knots all day at Cap Moreton with gusts to 20 and also ESE swell to 2m. Its got me stuffed why anyone would have been out especially with young ones. But I guess we dont know all the facts and its easy to comment after the fact but the weather reporting on Seabreeze would have made me choose another day.

[MudRiverDan]

http://www.amsa.gov.au/publications/Fact_sheets/Beacons_FaQ.pdf

If it was a non-GPS EPIRB then this was a pretty quick rescue.

Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is
no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90
minutes on average to receive the signal but it may
take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions.
More information is needed to determine the real
location. This usually means at least two satellite
passes &/or independent intelligence is required to
determine a location and this takes more time. Non
GPS has an location accuracy of 5km.

So does this mean that non GPS epribs are crap?

Satellite should be able to blip you with better accuracy than that shouldn't it?
Not bagging any rescue efforts here just asking, personally two hours in the water is better than two days.

Dan

[Captain Seaweed]

I spoke to a rescue worker and he said he would never buy a unit without GPS. Trying to find someone in adverse conditions is extremely hard. I sold my boat to him and he handed back my EPIRB and said he didnt want it. I have since only bought GPS units.

[NAGG]

Thats a very interesting comment nagg. Two kids should be accompanied by two adults in case one of the adults is knocked out. How many times on this site and other sites do you read about a solo trip out through the bar. A recipe for disaster. One slip, knocked out, no life jacket, boat rolls and no epird activation. More then likely one outcome (dead). As for the age of the kids, i think they would get alot more enjoyment from a day in the bay where they can catch and pull in their own fish ( ie whitting, bream, flatties etc) and if the boredom sets in they can be easily taken to a large number of sandy places for a swim and run around. We all know you never get the true facts from the media lets just hope we aren't reading about these events more often. Wrong or right its never good to hear things like this.

Cheers Mick.....

Mick ..... I fished Solo offshore for 10 years - but it was my sole responsibility for safety ( self inflating life jacket , lanyards etc ) ......... Any foul up and it was my life and my life only.
Children are a huge responsibility when taking them out on the water & its greatly exacerbated when you are talking offshore and adding in a dangerous bar crossing .
I doubt very much if I would even have had two little kids on board with an extra adult or two ........ not crossing a bar like that!. Maybe others see things differently .

Chris

[death_ship]

Boat was on the barge this arvo. 625 tournament. 200 etec. No keel damage. No prop damage. Minus screen and bimini

[tassjo]

I have 3 kids from 14 down to 6 all wear pdf's ,we some times go out the heads from botany bay for a cruise .all of us who take kids out for a day of fun do not intend on hurting our kids.If miss gillard and goverment spent our money on producing a service like westpac helicopter resque instead of sending it overseas we will be much better of

[banksmister]

I doubt very much if I would even have had two little kids on board with an extra adult or two ........ not crossing a bar like that!. Maybe others see things differently .

Chris

Was he actually on the bar, he could have been fishing the rouse.
Reports say between moreton & staddie
Wait for the facts

[Horse]

Several Ausfishers made the call today not to take a chance on the SPB and todays conditions were significantly better than Saturdays. It can be a very nasty place to be in an easterly swell and with a big tidal run. Saturday ticked both of those boxes together with 15-20 knots. Thats all I need to know to make the call that the guy has little respect for the ocean if he took his young children out in those conditions. He could have easily lost the life of one or both of his kids.

[wave dancer]

Nagg... (Any foul up and it was my life and my life only) is another interesting comment. You may have been lucky to fish incident free however you have forgotten a very major thing. If something did go wrong i would be guessing due to your experience it would be a very bad and dangerous situation. So i guess the search and rescue team MAY be putting their lives on the line to save you or to retrieve a body for the family to grieve over and lay to rest. It would be a fare guess to say the rescue team would also be volunteers. It is only my opinion but i DON'T really think that it would be your life and your life only in danger. Safety in numbers.

Cheers Mick.

[NAGG]

I have 3 kids from 14 down to 6 all wear pdf's ,we some times go out the heads from botany bay for a cruise .all of us who take kids out for a day of fun do not intend on hurting our kids.If miss gillard and goverment spent our money on producing a service like westpac helicopter resque instead of sending it overseas we will be much better of


No disrespect Tasio ...... but Botany Heads , Sydney Heads , Port Hacking & Broken Bay are a walk in the park when compared to SPB ........... you can go through all of them with multiple meter swell & not have any concern what so ever ............ For the reputation of the Narooma Bar - SPB is a much more daunting prospect .
I can't see your point on the Westpac rescue service - So you think that a good rescue service is the answer to skipper stupidity ? ....... What would the utilization be for a rescue chopper ?. ..... 30 min - 2 hrs would have to be considered as pretty good for anywhere in Aust.

Chris

[NAGG]

Nagg... (Any foul up and it was my life and my life only) is another interesting comment. You may have been lucky to fish incident free however you have forgotten a very major thing. If something did go wrong i would be guessing due to your experience it would be a very bad and dangerous situation. So i guess the search and rescue team MAY be putting their lives on the line to save you or to retrieve a body for the family to grieve over and lay to rest. It would be a fare guess to say the rescue team would also be volunteers. It is only my opinion but i DON'T really think that it would be your life and your life only in danger. Safety in numbers.
Cheers Mick.

Mick - lets not play a version of semantics ........... The reality is any trip on the ocean has an element of danger (as does driving out of your own driveway) .
I know very well that I took my own life into my hands when I went out .....particularly on my own . The amount of dangerous bar crossings I did (on my own) could be counted on two hands and even less when I had someone else on board . But I knew the risks , I was prepared for the risk & whom ever I had on board were prepared for the risk . Little kids never came into the equation . Nor would I have a non swimmer on board outside of smooth waters .

Yes I have had a little element of luck over the years ...... but most of my good fortune came from not testing that luck too often .

Mick - I dont know what your point is here though ........ you would never have read about my boat being rolled at a bar with two little kids on board - That I can guarantee

chris

[Almako]

Best wishes for the skipper and his boys that would be one terrifying moment.

[NAGG]

Mick - lets not play a version of semantics ........... The reality is any trip on the ocean has an element of danger (as does driving out of your own driveway) .
I know very well that I took my own life into my hands when I went out .....particularly on my own . The amount of dangerous bar crossings I did (on my own) could be counted on two hands and even less when I had someone else on board . But I knew the risks , I was prepared for the risk & whom ever I had on board were prepared for the risk . Little kids never came into the equation . Nor would I have a non swimmer on board outside of smooth waters .

Yes I have had a little element of luck over the years ...... but most of my good fortune came from not testing that luck too often .

Mick - I dont know what your point is here though ........ you would never have read about my boat being rolled at a bar with two little kids on board - That I can guarantee

chris

PS - I also did a lot of rock fishing ....... I got by because for the most part I never did anything stupid

[tassjo]

hi nagg,it sounds like you have condemed him as a stupid skipper,what i am trying to say is & i dont know how long it talk the chopper to get there ,but if for example we have the chopper service based in sydney and some 1 is in trouble in newcastle it takes to long to get to the destination,we should have a lot more chopper and aerial sevices all round australia paid for by the goverment instead of giving our money away to other countries,we have voulentees looking after us in their own time while we go boating,they should be paid.

[NAGG]

hi nagg,it sounds like you have condemed him as a stupid skipper,what i am trying to say is & i dont know how long it talk the chopper to get there ,but if for example we have the chopper service based in sydney and some 1 is in trouble in newcastle it takes to long to get to the destination,we should have a lot more chopper and aerial sevices all round australia paid for by the goverment instead of giving our money away to other countries,we have voulentees looking after us in their own time while we go boating,they should be paid.

I said - Irresponsible.
From my understanding we have several rescue helicopters located between the sunshine coast & gold coast (AGL , EMQ & Westpac) ..... plus police & careflight choppers. Just over the border there is another Westpac rescue helicopter at Lismore .
As far as other services go ...... yes they are voluntary but we do have the Police & various waterway authorities as well .

So how much do we need ?

Chris

[mustang5]

30 minutes or 2 hours.... Both a long time in the water!!!

Over new years my missus (Pregnant) and I had a scare on Moreton Island and they had to get the chopper in.. From time of call to the chopper to Landing on the Heli-pad!! 1 hr and 15 minutes.


So half an hour to rescue guys out of the water is an outstanding effort if you ask me!

[stevej]

is everyone aware of the procdures when a beacon goes off?

non gps will get them to within a 5km x 5km square
gps version will get them to within 50m x 50m

even looking for a bobbing head in that 50m x 50m square in rough weather can be hard 5km x 5km is almost impossible

beacon goes off
depending on type from 15mins to 5 hours depending on when satellites go overhead
some planes will pick up the gps versions beacon

information is sent to canberra where someone will call the contact details listed on the database
home
mobile
work
they do this as it can take another satelite or two before they get a reading on where it is exactly
they then call the nearest coastguard to the reported site of activation

the coast guard may even go down to the local ramps and see if the trailer/ vehicle is actually there

then the chopper is sent and local aircraft notified to report any sensing of the beacon
the chopper may be busy on the way back from another job

expecting 15 min to 30 min pickups is just fantasy

[WalrusLike]

Steve do you know why the signal isn't used as a df (direction finding) beacon?

I can't understand why the rescue mob can't home in on the signal.....

I fully understand why the non GPS is such a big search area but once a search is underway isn't it possible to home on the signal?

Forest rangers and scientists can find animals using df.... Why can't the beacons be located the same way?

Don't get me wrong... I am very grateful for volunteer rescue services and mean no criticism at all of anyone involved... Just wondering technically why df can't work?

[Captain Seaweed]

I once wanted to install a camera with infra red on a 15m pole at Amity and Moreton to assist with bar conditions and rescues, we install these for Main Roads and they would be priceless in these scenarios and to help fishos and others that use the bar. I thought it would be a great tool for VMR's that handle the logins for there. If you know the person best worth talking to drop me a PM and I will call them. I would be happy to do the labour myself for free but couldn't fit the bill for camera gear, maybe there is a budget for this somewhere in government.?

Cheers
Marty

[thelump]

I'm glad they all got out alive. If indeed they were trying to cross the bar it is a great reason to log on just before crossing and then when clear of the bar especially in what was pretty crap conditions. At least then someone will raise the alarm pretty quickly if it goes pear shaped. I remember about this time a couple of years ago a couple of blokes were not so lucky after turning over on this bar and authorites writing off the discovered boat as flood debri and not starting a search till they did not return home that evening! Another great reason for logging on.

[stevej]

I dont know mate sorry beyond my ability to understand

The raaf took several passes to find bullimores 102ft yacht so id say no they cant home in on it
only helicopters can stay stationary to do that kind of search jets and modern propeller craft are just too fast

easy fix is just add a plb to every life jacket on the boat like i did as a back up


Steve do you know why the signal isn't used as a df (direction finding) beacon?

I can't understand why the rescue mob can't home in on the signal.....

I fully understand why the non GPS is such a big search area but once a search is underway isn't it possible to home on the signal?

Forest rangers and scientists can find animals using df.... Why can't the beacons be located the same way?

Don't get me wrong... I am very grateful for volunteer rescue services and mean no criticism at all of anyone involved... Just wondering technically why df can't work?

[SatNav]

1. Rather disappointing there are comments being made that do nothing more than add to the confusion with regard positioning beacons, accuracy with the GPS v Non GPS remarks rather a negative outlook considering the historical records since Cospas-Sarsat came to be.

2. Basically every 406 Epirb, PLB & ELT can be tracked using the 121.5mhz homing signal that is a standard requirement of just about every positioning beacon made. The comment re not being able to track and locate positioning beacons can only come from not fully understanding the overall system? 406mhz can now also now be directly tracked (locally) but refinement and full fitment of such equipment to aircraft will be a little way off. However this does not distract from the 121.5mhz homing signal.

3. The AMSA Dornier's and rescue choppers can track beacons with extremely good precision but no matter how good the position is and regardless of GPS or non GPS models it still comes down to the pilot and crew making a visual in what ever the conditions may be.

[WalrusLike]

Sorry Satnav I don't understand your first point. Could you please elaborate for us laymen not up on the systems?

I am really interested in this and mean no disrespect to anyone. As I say, I think the volunteers and professionals are a wonderful bunch of skilled and brave folk.

[SatNav]

WalrusLike Wrote
"Sorry Satnav I don't understand your first point. Could you please elaborate for us laymen not up on the systems?"

Satnav Wrote
"1. Rather disappointing there are comments being made that do nothing more than add to the confusion with regard positioning beacons, accuracy with the GPS v Non GPS remarks rather a negative outlook considering the historical records since Cospas-Sarsat came to be."

1. Ok, there does appear some are still using/comparing satellite detection times/methods of 121.5mhz in the same world of 406mhz, absolutely no comparison. Yes, true satellite detection of 121.5 was never a good solution but one that did work and saved absolutely thousands (actually tens of thousands) of lives with this technology.

2. Multiple passes to determine ambiguous positions from 121.5mhz was a reality but this is why 121.5mhz was terminated (apart from the main issue with false alerts) and 406mhz systems implemented. 406Mhz non GPS systems do not take hours (as suggested) to determine the "proper" position as by far the most important, critical and primary component of 406Mhz positioning beacons is REGISTRATION

3. Any Epirb is way better than no epirb at all and statements like "only buy GPS assisted Epirbs" is very negative as literally thousands of people have been saved using Epirbs, and the majority of these Epirbs were not GPS models.

4. So if we can forget what 121.5mhz required (time, passes, accuracy etc etc) and concentrate on what 406mhz does then this will be a definite positive step forward.

5. To reiterate again, the most important requirement of 406Mhz systems is REGISTRATION.

[ozscott]

SatNav - can you explain the benefits of a GPS assisted 406Mhz epirb and why, if people can stretch to it, they SHOULD buy a GPS assisted beacon?

Cheers

[Jarrah Jack]

Sat Navvy..... On a long trailer boat trip, say to the Swains for instance, which epirb would you prefer and why?

[KaptainM]

Steve do you know why the signal isn't used as a df (direction finding) beacon?

I can't understand why the rescue mob can't home in on the signal.....

I fully understand why the non GPS is such a big search area but once a search is underway isn't it possible to home on the signal?

Forest rangers and scientists can find animals using df.... Why can't the beacons be located the same way?

Don't get me wrong... I am very grateful for volunteer rescue services and mean no criticism at all of anyone involved... Just wondering technically why df can't work?

Hi Walrus,

As a Aeromedical Pilot I do a fair amount of SAR. Steve is pretty well spot on with what he said and if you PM an email address I will scan and email you some procedures that we use for DF work. This is from the USCG and is a good read http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/BMW%202009_files/USCG%20406%20MHz%20Beacon%20Direction%20Finding%20 in%20the%20Modern%20Age.pdf

Prior to this job I used to patrol the Greenzones looking for illegal fishing and even finding small dorys in light chop on a overcast day was difficult some days.

[Captain Seaweed]

Ok so with all the above said. What epirb available on the market is the best to buy to maximise the chance of being found accurately. i am in the market for one and want to get the best.

[Captain Seaweed]

further to above, money is not a contributing factor but quality of product is.

[Lancair]

After reading this thread about response times and what the chopper was doing etc, I remembered I was watching Flightradar24 at the time. The chopper based at Carrara had been up flying, up north around North Stadbroke and back down to Point Danger and had not long been on the ground again when it got airborne at about 3.11pm, making a high speed run to the area arriving on scene at around 3.31pm Qld time.
FlightRadar has a playback function, so I played it back and grabbed the following screen shot. A record of the choppers movements that day since 10am. White line is below 500', yellow up to 1500' altitude. The chopper goes out of this radar systems coverage below 300' in that area.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/Biggles70/nvg.jpg

[Lancair]

I continued to watch the playback, it dissapeared from screen at 3.31 and reapeared 3.41pm
Heres a screen shot showing the chopper landing at RBH at 3.54pm. Its hard to read in this pic but Altitude was 100', speed 5kts as it dissapeared.

Pretty good response times Id say.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/Biggles70/nvg2.jpg

[Dantren]

Nice link Kaptain. Some good info there. I'm interested to know how many rec or commercial vessels out there have waterproof mobile vhf radio's, and if they could result in a faster response this side of the 50 fathom line?

[Lucky_Phill]

Here is a pic of the boat at the Amity ramp awaiting a salvage.

Me and many others pulled the pin on crossing the bar that day.

Got as far as the shingles, looked seawrd and said... " nope ", not for me.

Boat may be hard to see as it is upside down. Look closely.

cheers LP

[SatNav]

Ozscott wrote:
“SatNav - can you explain the benefits of a GPS assisted 406Mhz epirb and why, if people can stretch to it, they SHOULD buy a GPS assisted beacon?”

1. Main benefits of GPS assisted 406 in Australian water would be in an area between northern Australia and PNG that has a LeoSar shadow. If GPS assisted devices fell into the should category then that’s all manufacturers would bother making. Unfortuneately at this point in time GPS assisted is a third party providor separate to that of Cospas Sarsat. In time this will change with MeoSar and better safety-of-life capability.

Jarrah Jack wrote:
“Sat Navvy..... On a long trailer boat trip, say to the Swains for instance, which epirb would you prefer and why?”

2. Beyond 2nm, out to 200nm and beyond the equation does not change, any approved Epirb model/s from the approved list will be fine but no competent skipper involved with long voyages would be thinking in Epirb terms alone.
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/en/beacons/type-approved-models/by-type-approval-number (http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/en/beacons/type-approved-models/by-type-approval-number)

3. Many talk a lot about Epirbs, safety about this, safety about that yet few have ever used one for real, so how many would be able to actually activate their Epirb if put on the spot (and after they find it probably), blind folded, in the dark, with their head in a bucket of water J Anybody who can’t do this requires more practice.

[lee8sec]

Hi Walrus,

As a Aeromedical Pilot I do a fair amount of SAR. Steve is pretty well spot on with what he said and if you PM an email address I will scan and email you some procedures that we use for DF work. This is from the USCG and is a good read http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/BMW%202009_files/USCG%20406%20MHz%20Beacon%20Direction%20Finding%20 in%20the%20Modern%20Age.pdf

Prior to this job I used to patrol the Greenzones looking for illegal fishing and even finding small dorys in light chop on a overcast day was difficult some days.

The linked article was a very interesting read. Thanks Leigh

[WalrusLike]

Hi Walrus,
.......This is from the USCG and is a good read http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/BMW%202009_files/USCG%20406%20MHz%20Beacon%20Direction%20Finding%20 in%20the%20Modern%20Age.pdf........
.

Aw crap. I missed this reply. Dunno how. See how easy it is to miss something in a roiling sea of information! :)

Many thanks Kaptain. That's great info. Haven't read it all yet but I will today. Many thanks.


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[WalrusLike]

So now that I have read that link I see that DF gear is used overseas and that it is as effective as I expected.

Not perfect of course.... and as mentioned above, even a small positional uncertainty can present big search issues.

So now I am wondering.... How many of our rescue services are equipped with 406 DF gear? Do you know Kaptain? Anyone?


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[SatNav]

Feb 20, WalrusLike wrote:
"So now I am wondering.... How many of our rescue services are equipped with 406 DF gear? Do you know Kaptain? Anyone?"

Feb 11, SatNav wrote:
"2. Basically every 406 Epirb, PLB & ELT can be tracked using the 121.5mhz homing signal that is a standard requirement of just about every positioning beacon made. The comment re not being able to track and locate positioning beacons can only come from not fully understanding the overall system? 406mhz can now also now be directly tracked (locally) but refinement and full fitment of such equipment to aircraft will be a little way off. However this does not distract from the 121.5mhz homing signal."

1. As far as I know, at this point, there are no Australian services capable of directly tracking the 406mhz digital satellite signal? I would think that the only aircraft that might rate checking into further would be any of the AMSA Dornier's? It is a totally different signal to track than the intermittent or continuous 121.5mhz homer sweep.

[WalrusLike]

Thanks Satnav. As I understand it though on the new Epirbs the 121 signal is 200 times weaker than the 406 signal that is intermittently sent every 52 seconds.

That weaker signal can be easily blocked by a human body for instance. Not so the 406.

I am disappointed to hear we don't as yet have widespread 406 DF gear in all the emergency orgs.

A high priority item I would think. Perhaps it's too expensive? Don't know the cost.


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