T Top for Centre Console

[johncar]

Just getting my 5.0 M centre console sorted up and thinking about some shade. Don't want too big a thing and non intrusive for fishing around the boat and needs to be solid. So I was going to build a T Top, looking for designs and came across a couple of T Tops in Kit form.
Brands are Witness, Dolphin, Stryker. They look OK in the on line pics, does anyone here have any knowledge about them for or against. For the price I doubt if I could build one any better and considering purchasing the Dolphin for about $1350 delivered..
Any thoughts appreciated.

[Spaniard_King]

The Kit form ones are cr@p, you would be majorly dissapointed.. spend the $$ and get a custom one made...

[Dantren]

Hey John. This style of shade works for me. It's a 10 second operation to take out four 12mm bolts & fold down for towing or storage. One of Col's boys made this for me when he was working at BW. You'd be surprised how much shade it throws.....

[Dantren]

Argghhhh, the iPad has outsmarted me again...

[Dantren]

Let's try that again.......

[Shark Poker]

One Sunday Afternoon, the T-top on an old Stingray centre console collapsed during sea trial in Bramble Bay.
The box section alum posts could not and did not support the roof which had been generously constructed with one inch plywood.
Crashed down on my head.
Luckily, I was able to use the live bait tank as a Swear Tin.
When I ran out of coins, I put lures in it.
Obviously, the head injury caused no after effects, I turned out just fine.

I have since had opportunities to ponder the concept of applying T-tops.

A lot of it depends on how it is mounted, as in number of attachment points.
A post either side of the console is not enough. They need 4 posts, IF there is room on the console to allow this.
Can you post a photo of the console?
Sometimes the throttle body/control box takes up most of the space on the stb side.
And then it matters how solid the console is in relation to the floor and how it is mounted. If the console is 'wobbly', then you can't mount to it without addressing that.

On the positive side, I once saw a guy with a kit from BIAS, installed on an old Clark Abalone, having movement problems.
It was causing him to drive very slowly and awkwardly, and return FISHLESS, or not go out at all.
But it was largely fixed with the addition of a couple of forward positioned removable straps from the same store.
A bimini canopy is hard to beat for mounting simplicity, and more importantly strength:weight ratio, also shade capacity and even foldability. Price as well.
IMO, a stainless steel T-top will beat an alum one in strength to weight easily.

What type of boat make/model do you have Johncar? (Ally or timber floor?)

Pauly

[johncar]

Thanks for all the info and pics so far, your fold down top looks great Dantren and I too need to have something that folds down. Sorry I should have said the boat is an Origin Axis 5000 Centre Console. Plenty of pics of the boat in the "Origin Boats Building Mini Me" thread. I know there are some light duty T Tops out there and no I don't really want that and certainly don't want it falling on my head :/
If I can post a link here, this is the kit I was asking about:
http://wakefool.com/witness-t-top.html
I had intended bolting it down to the checkerplate floor and bracing it to the side of the console. They look solid enough, I just don't know whether they have been around long enough to be tried and tested.

[johncar]

One Sunday Afternoon, the T-top on an old Stingray centre console collapsed during sea trial in Bramble Bay.
The box section alum posts could not and did not support the roof which had been generously constructed with one inch plywood.
Crashed down on my head.
Luckily, I was able to use the live bait tank as a Swear Tin.
When I ran out of coins, I put lures in it.
Obviously, the head injury caused no after effects, I turned out just fine.

I have since had opportunities to ponder the concept of applying T-tops.

A lot of it depends on how it is mounted, as in number of attachment points.
A post either side of the console is not enough. They need 4 posts, IF there is room on the console to allow this.
Can you post a photo of the console?
Sometimes the throttle body/control box takes up most of the space on the stb side.
And then it matters how solid the console is in relation to the floor and how it is mounted. If the console is 'wobbly', then you can't mount to it without addressing that.

On the positive side, I once saw a guy with a kit from BIAS, installed on an old Clark Abalone, having movement problems.
It was causing him to drive very slowly and awkwardly, and return FISHLESS, or not go out at all.
But it was largely fixed with the addition of a couple of forward positioned removable straps from the same store.
A bimini canopy is hard to beat for mounting simplicity, and more importantly strength:weight ratio, also shade capacity and even foldability. Price as well.
IMO, a stainless steel T-top will beat an alum one in strength to weight easily.

What type of boat make/model do you have Johncar? (Ally or timber floor?)

Pauly

Thanks Pauly, all good points you make and yes I will be looking at some sort of 4 post arrangement for strength bolted down to doubler plates welded to the ally floor and also bracing it to the console which is sturdy enough. It's all Ally, the floor and the console.
Having some very strong but as light as possible is my aim.
There are a couple of these kit style T Tops, Stryker brand, at Brisbane Yamaha on CC's in their yard and I jumped up and heaved on it and it seemed very sturdy indeed.
Although they are made of 2" tube I wounder if they will be full of cracks after a while. Certainly easier than making one if they are OK.

[Dantren]

Geez that looks like a nice bit of kit John. Very light too. I suppose the beauty of the witness is very simple to install and cost effective.

[RayLamp]

These look like the ducks nuts http://www.stainlesssteelfabrication.com.au/centre%20console.htm

[johncar]

The Kit form ones are cr@p, you would be majorly dissapointed.. spend the $$ and get a custom one made...

Thanks Garry, I have assumed so. Just don't have much of a budget at the moment, been struggling to get this little CC together, so a custom job which I would like is out of bounds for now. The kit ones I looked at seemed fairly well made, but I don't know how durable they will be so I was hoping someone might have been using one and have a bit of feedback.
I was thinking about this one specifically so you can see some specs: http://wakefool.com/witness-t-top.html

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Johncar,
While the kit ones are cheaper and not as strong as a custom made job - they have their pro's as well.

The major benefit I can see is for around $400 (ocean south brand) - you can try one out - It should last at least 2 or 3 years this will give you the opportunity to test it out - sus out what you like/don't like (to small, too big, too low, too high etc. etc.) and then when the time comes - you will be a bit better informed when it comes to designing a custom job to suit your boat.

The Brisbane Yamaha ones are brilliant - but they are over $2000 - custom ones will be start at what? $1200-$1500 and go up from there.........

If you do buy a kit one - make sure it is at least 32mm dia tube.......

Mark

[upstart]

Hey Johncar,
Just wondering if you went with the Witness t top?

[Shark Poker]

Hi,
I saw one of those T-Top units the other day.
As a product it looked very nice, welds perfect, bright anodised finish, fittings all look really good.
NO...., it looks VERY good, better quality than the boat itself.... And BIG, huge shade area. (They must be selling plenty.)
However the 4 posts were screwed to the plywood floor of the 5m alum centre console.
The floor boards were almost being pulled up and out by the new 'roof'
Consider the leverage of such a big roof with 4 central posts connected to the plywood floor of the boat.

The owner had to remove the floor boards and get aluminium plate sections welded between the supports to that the T-top legs could be mounted to something more sturdy.
This meant floor boards out, fuel tank out, wallet out.... Which was kind of ok because other little cracks and broken welds on the boat were fixed up at the same time.
But I saw same fella only a couple of days ago and he said that he is very happy with it now.
My point is again that those T-Tops looks great, but you can't just screw one to the floor of your boat without expecting problems.
Thanks, am off my soap-box now, All the best!
Pauly

[Squidlet]

Gday John,would you consider a bimney until the funds are up to get a custom joby?
Cheers Chris.

[johncar]

These look like the ducks nuts http://www.stainlesssteelfabrication.com.au/centre%20console.htm

Thanks RayLamp
Greens SS work is very nice indeed. They have built bits and pieces for me in past years but SS is not practical for this boat. Has to be ally really and need to be as light as practical..

[johncar]

OK thanks every one for you comments always great on here to get feedback.
I decided to go with the Witness T Top or actually they are called Dolphin T Tops here in Aus and ordered it late last week and it was delivered a few days later on Tuesday this week. Very nice people to deal with too. Putting it together today, it looks very good, sturdy and well finished off. It all went together pretty well and sits nicely in situ on the boat although not bolted down as yet.
Although I have a fairly solid fully welded checkerplate ally floor in this boat, so no rotting or flimsy timber... With advice also from Col at Origin Boats we decided that to be safe we will weld in 10mm ally plate doublers to the floor. There will be then 16 off 6mm SS CS head hex drive metal thread screws drilled and tapped into the floor and with reinforcing plates will be over 13mm to bite into.
As an addition to that the uprights will be bolted and braced to the upper sides of the centre console which is very solidly fixed to the floor as well. So it if it breaks off it won't be at the lower fixings I am sure.

And thanks Chris, It is a great suggestion to hold out and get the custom job, that would be the ultimate but I really am trying to do this whole boat in a pretty tight budget, so it's all a bit of a compromise and ending up with a great boat at a reasonable cost.
Blue Marlin Towers did the last one I had on a previous boat, it was fabulous but justifiably cost a bit.
I think I will be happy with this T Top, it looks good and I amp quite prepared to do any mods if it needs any reinforcing anywhere at all, have TIG and plenty of ally scraps lying around . Time will tell and I will let you know the good and bad if any. My only thing to figure out now is how best to fold it down to get in the low head height shed. Just a minor problem and better than trying to build the whole thing from scratch.
Anyway Pics are always good, just sat it in there thisarvo to mark out the foot positions.

88747

88748

[upstart]

Thanks for the report Johncar!
I'm seriously considering one for my boat however it's fiberglass so it'll have it's own mounting issues to the floor. I'm thinking the backing plates should make it sturdy enough.
You've involved your boat builder to get the mounting right.... As a comparison, what would origin have charged you for a similar set up?
Cheers, Ben.

[Dan5]

Looks good mate........any ideas on the cost?


Dan

[upstart]

Hey Fat buoy, thanks for the report!
Do you reckon a couple of ropes/straps from the front of the t top would have alleviated the probs? The instructions online recommend that the feet are through bolted. Was the ply floor solid??
Cheers, Ben.

[upstart]

Dan5, googling the product has it at $899 but maybe that's the American price. Saw it on a gum tree ad for $1199 or so.

[Fed]

You ever thought of using aluminium bolts John?
http://www.aluminumfastener.com/index.html
Could be worth looking into re galvanic corrosion being on the wet floor.
Tapping may require a formed thread rather than a cut thread but I'm sure there's plenty of suppliers out there that could advise you on that.

[johncar]

Thanks for the report Johncar!
I'm seriously considering one for my boat however it's fiberglass so it'll have it's own mounting issues to the floor. I'm thinking the backing plates should make it sturdy enough.
You've involved your boat builder to get the mounting right.... As a comparison, what would origin have charged you for a similar set up?
Cheers, Ben.
Hi Ben, they should work well in a glass boat as well and regardless of whether a kit style or custom made the mounting has to be done well.
The feet screwed solidly to the floor is important for the fore and aft stresses but they have to be braced solidly to the sides of a rigid centre console.
The cross bar on these is about 750 mm up from the floor so that is the ideal fixing point. Two per side I think is wise if navigating any choppy conditions.
It is a bit out of the question at the moment for Col to do it as they have a lot of boats to build, but I think he mentioned $1500 as a starting point I think. I asked him about the Dolpin TTop before going ahead and he gave the thumbs up and worth trying. He will be interested in how it goes too I am sure.

[johncar]

Looks good mate........any ideas on the cost?


Dan

Hi Dan, It was $1350 delivered. Cheaper if you can pick up in NSW

[johncar]

You ever thought of using aluminium bolts John?
http://www.aluminumfastener.com/index.html
Could be worth looking into re galvanic corrosion being on the wet floor.
Tapping may require a formed thread rather than a cut thread but I'm sure there's plenty of suppliers out there that could advise you on that.

Hi Fed, yes its a good idea and I would love to use Ally bolts. I will check them out. I think that they could also be prone to seizing in tapped threads particularly in the floor area. I have a plan to use 10 mm thick plates welded to the existing floor and the t tops feet will be sika flexed on top of these plates. I will also use either Sika on the SS metal threads or TefGel or similar to help with the bimetal corrosion issues in the threads. I think they will be Ok, the boat will be in the shed when not in use too so not in the weather all the time.

[Dan5]

Looks good acctually......really good......keep us up to date with it once fitted off on how sturdy/solid it is.......I have some BIG mates....120+kg fellas that would grab that handrail and hang off of it like some sort of tame gorilla.....they can't help it just big and clumbsy...LOL..........I kept this in mind when i fitted the console to the floor with 800mm of welding keeping it there.

Cheers Dan

[Squidlet]

Nice Smooth lines their john,boat looks bloody great,enjoy the shade bud!!!
Cheers Chris.

[marto78]

Hey John make sure you pull all the bolts out of the T-Top and cover them in Duralec (I think) or similar to stop them getting stuck in. The pne I have on my boat is very similar to yours and I never thought to do that and when I went to make some adjustments a couple of years later I found that everything was stuck solid and no amount of penetrol would budge the bolts, I gave up after a week.

After 4 and a bit years I have only just discovered that mine was made by Fishmaster (I know a bit late for you) but thought I would put it up any ways:
http://www.fishmaster.com/

[upstart]

Hey Marto,
Apart from the stuck bolts are you happy with the fish master?

Thanks again for the info Johncar. I look forward to hearing a review from you after a few trips!

[Dantren]

Nice looking shade structure there John. Do you plan to put the all round white light on top?

[johncar]

Nice looking shade structure there John. Do you plan to put the all round white light on top?

Hi Dantren, Yes I will be mounting the allround light up there somewhere, haven't decided where yet though. VHF antenna too has to be mounted, will be welding some mounting plates on this arvo all going well.

[upstart]

Can the cable be run through the tubing?

[Shark Poker]

Ben,
That problem was that the posts were connected to the plywood, but far away from the aluminium floor supports.
It would not have mattered if bolts or screws were used, because the unsupported part of the timber panels were flexing.
And that is a BIG roof, as well.
Pauly

[johncar]

Can the cable be run through the tubing?

Yes it can be run through the tubing to a degree, but with any of these things the wire will have to exit at any of the connection points and joints.
I have welded some mounting plates on this afternoon, that was fun, awkward bloody positions.
Anyway they are on and hopefully won't fall off.

[marto78]

Hey Marto,
Apart from the stuck bolts are you happy with the fish master?

Thanks again for the info Johncar. I look forward to hearing a review from you after a few trips!

I have had a weld crack around one of the joins up top but I think that was from people hanging off it while driving and have had a couple of the rod holders fall off. Apart from that I have been fairly happy with it, it has copped a fair amount of abuse in the 500 odd hrs it has been on the boat.

[upstart]

I have had a weld crack around one of the joins up top but I think that was from people hanging off it while driving and have had a couple of the rod holders fall off. Apart from that I have been fairly happy with it, it has copped a fair amount of abuse in the 500 odd hrs it has been on the boat.


Ta mate. 500 odd hours is pretty good going.

[johncar]

A bit more done on the T Top today after Cols guys welded in the mounting plates earlier this week.
I am happy with it overall, fairly easy to fit up and the few little mods to suit my needs were easy enough to do.
The canvas is well made but a little loose for my liking so I ask one of our local trimmers if they will take it in a little along the back edge. Should be a minor job.
These are really designed to fold forward but I don't have the space wide enough at that point so I have modded it so it folds backwards pivoting on the rear legs and then it is very easy to slip the back two bolts out and sit it on the floor so it goes in the shed no worries.
It only takes a few minutes to totally remove it so I am happy with that, I have to be anyway. Still have some more wiring to do and install some lighting including the anchor all round light on top.
Some pics so far:
88961889698896888967889668896588964889638896288970

[Squidlet]

Gday there John.Just a question what are you doing about your seating arrangments? are you going Pedestal seats or esky seat?
Cheers Chris.

[johncar]

Gday there John.Just a question what are you doing about your seating arrangments? are you going Pedestal seats or esky seat?
Cheers Chris.

Hi Chris, Good question. I am still undecided and with a relatively small amount of space I want to use that space as well as I can. I will have my 120 litre ice box in there most of the time which doubles as a seat for now. I also want somewhere to carry some rods probably no more than 4, not sure where to put that as I don't like clutter and things to bang your shins on when not in use.

I am leaning toward the idea of a half sitting leaning type double sided bench seat, just a fairly narrow arrangement maybe only 300 or so mm and possibly a couple of tubes near the floor each side forming part of the base to stand two rods each side of the seat. My esky may then back up behind that arrangement using the bench as a back rest or stay at the stern.

All just thoughts at the moment

[oldjoe]

I would love a ttop on my cc but don't have the funds right now, so I put a couple of saddles on the front of the console and put the beach brolly up when drifting or anchored...looks pretty daggy but I am in the shade on those glassed out scorching bay days.

[johncar]

Don't worry, I was considering the beach brolly too before I got permission for the T Top from SWMBO. I just cook in the sun too easily these days and a new shiny tinny doesn't help.
Hope you get a more permanent structure soon oldjoe.

[oldjoe]

Yeah, me as well, just can't sit out in the sun like we used to.
Rig looks fantastic mate, I love those Axis5000's, I am actually looking at copying the console off them to replace the original mine came with, I am looking at a custom job approx 800 wide, had some outrageous quotes around the $1800 but reckon the raw materials (3mm sheet only) would be approx $300, so could do it a lot cheaper.
As far as seating goes, I highly recommend a reversable leaning post type seat, but would match the width of your console, with storage under.
Enjoy that shade in style mate.
cheers
Joe

[johncar]

Yeah Joe the console in mine is 1000 mm which perhaps could have been 900 mm to give me a tad more room to get past, because I wasn't thinking ahead enough to know that the T Top legs would be outside adding another 120 mm.
I just wanted as wide as practical to fit whatever rubbish I decided to put on it and inside it. It's still good though and can get past OK.
$1800 seems a bit steep even though there is no doubt a bit of work in them. Not sure what Col charged me in the end because it was sort of included with other things, but I am sure it was considerably less that that.
So yes I am now keen to get some scales on the new girl, hope the seas calm down a bit soon.

[johncar]

8906789068Have to say a big thanks to Ray's Canvas and Marine at Caboolture. The canvas on my T Top kit was slightly loose for my liking, so dropped by with the boat and Ray weaved his magic on it in no time. Have never had work done by Ray previously but have heard recommendations on this forum. Also decided to ask Ray to make and fit some covers to the batteries and switches plus the centre console access hole. Picked up this arvo and they are superb, couldn't ask for better.

[oldjoe]

Very nice work, looks really smick, I imagine some rubber matting may be next or will thongs do for now :)
I contacted Col at Origin boats asking if they would sell me a console, he got back to me really quickly and said no worries, we are talking style and size, so should have a price soon.
Some of the restimonials and forums I have read on the Origin boat guys have been pretty good and I am certainly impressed so far...nice to see some real service still exists these days.
I have about 1800mm of floor width so am going for 800mm wide console, my box seat behind is 1000mm

[johncar]

I am usually bare foot in the boat unless the middle of winter on a cold night. The solid ally floor conducts heat so well, I think the sea water pulls a lot of the heat out of it. If it gets too hot I can just throw some water over it or a wet towel or both. I reckon that grey carpet gets hotter than the bare ally.
Anyhow I will see how it goes.
Hope Col looks after you with the console, I know they have a pile of boats to build so if you are not in a hurry it could work out well for you.
All the best with it.

[ricehole23]

Hi Mate

Just wandering what sort of weight the T-top is?
Was thinking of adding one to my stessl truck 465 c/c
to make it abit more family friendly or would it b overkill?

Regards

Troy

[johncar]

Hi Troy, I didn't weight it but pretty sure it stated around 33kg on the carton it arrived in. I assume that would include all the packaging as well so the T Top should be sub 30kg I would think.
I can pick the whole thing up Ok when assembled.
A regular bimini is a lot cheaper and can offer more shade but has the downside of frames and straps on your side decks and they don't tend to travel so well.
The T Top is a lot sturdier, minimal obstructions, shade on mine is approx 1500 x 2000 mm.
A mate of mine is looking at one for his 4.6 m Origin 4 x 4. He is considering chopping about 100 mm off the bottom of the legs to lower it a little to suit him and his boat better. Easy enough so long as you can reweld the feet on or happy to take it somewhere to have it done.

[LoungeLizard]

Does anybody have a long term report on the Dolphin T-Tops? Any issues - cracks, flex etc? Also, are they sturdy enough to put 5 x rods in for the trip out/back?

[Dogtoooth]

Does anybody have a long term report on the Dolphin T-Tops? Any issues - cracks, flex etc? Also, are they sturdy enough to put 5 x rods in for the trip out/back?

My dolphin T top pro 2 cracked bad where the bolts are. These t tops are built nasty and cheap thin wall tube. Hooker boats use to use them on their CC boats they all cracked when taken offshore. Get a custom one built, don't ever buy kit T tops.

[scottar]

I once built my own T-Top from 1 inch heavy walled ally tube and canopy fittings. Was very much on a shoestring budget at the time. Courtesy of the movement in the nylon fittings never had any issues with the top itself , but , on a console that was made from 3mm alloy, it cracked the console - even after extensive addition of triangular bracing to try and stop the console itself moving around. Whatever they are mounted to needs to be very solid to cope with the additional load / windage.

[LoungeLizard]

My dolphin T top pro 2 cracked bad where the bolts are. These t tops are built nasty and cheap thin wall tube. Hooker boats use to use them on their CC boats they all cracked when taken offshore. Get a custom one built, don't ever buy kit T tops.

Well, that's bad news. Thanks for the info. I had a quick chat to a local ally fabricator. All I can say is it's a good thing I don't have a heart condition. Maybe I should learn to Tig/Mig and make my own.


Whatever they are mounted to needs to be very solid to cope with the additional load / windage.

Indeed. My previous T-Top was a cheapo Ocean South one. I wobbled like crazy but I think it saved the console/floor

[KEMEL K]

Fellas, all alloy t-tops will eventually break/crack, unless they are tiny, have nothing attached, and are only used in smooth water. Had to talk my builder into putting one on my c/c." They all break he said" then built This and it broke after (18 months 275 hours)where bolted to console, see the Teflon tubing we sleved inside alloy. Just put the shake into the top of the thing. Result many breaks and cracking in just 6 months/ 60 hours. Been removed once for corrective welding, and a re-weld of cracking while still attached in in last 6 months! Using tie down straps on four corners trying to hold it together.
Coming off in May and hard top cabin going on. Hope it lasts until then!!!