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View Full Version : Get the beer and popcorn. Evinrude does it again



Jabba_
11-01-2013, 07:39 AM
It's been boring as hell on here, so this video should spice things up a little.
Hey, at least the mercury powered boat didn't capsize this time.
But by all counts it looks like this test was much fairer and it even looks as though the skipper off Merc powered boat got the power on before the Etec boat did.
Have fun with this guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfm64xkRU3o&feature=youtu.be

thelump
11-01-2013, 07:52 AM
Maybe we need a challenge to show how hard a Seafarer rides compared to.....mmmmmmm......a Yaltacraft:-X:-X;D

finga
11-01-2013, 07:58 AM
I'd like to see some real world testing like which one handles hitting a sand bank, the concrete boat ramp and driveway or hitting a whale or backing into the back of the shed or gumtree the best.

Dear Mr Envirude dude (or even Mr Merc or Miss Yamaha-hahahaha or Sir Honda)....if you need someone totally unbiased to do some real world testing just give me a cooee and jobs done.
I'll test and test and test all free of charge and give honest feedback in return.

Grim Reefer 750
11-01-2013, 08:06 AM
Hey, at least the mercury powered boat didn't capsize this time. - Only because the skipper was yelling STOP, STOP, STOP, STOP........

Anyway i'd like to see 2 stroke vs 2 stroke & 4 stroke vs 4 stroke.

propdinger
11-01-2013, 08:22 AM
only problem with ETEC is you need 2 one to get out there and the other to get you home LOL

Si
11-01-2013, 08:37 AM
interesting match up, thanks for posting. enjoyed watching that. test doesnt include long term reliability of course which is a major factor for me personally which is why i would choose Honda anyday of the week.

Dan5
11-01-2013, 08:38 AM
Notice they don't do any long distance comparo's?.......The E-testicle proberbly just runs out of fuel too quick?


Snifffffffff........................hey my popcorns burning!!! and my beer is flat.....
Thanks Jabba.......atleast you know how to have a shit stir......!!!

Dan

Toddy_again
11-01-2013, 08:46 AM
Since the invent of Etecs Hornets have been left alone.8-)

Toddy

JB
11-01-2013, 09:12 AM
Ahhh marketing... gold. there are a lot of different factors that a person considers when buying a new outboard... every product has its pro's and con's .. just need to make sure for "Your" application the pro's of a particular outboard suit your usage or style of boating. After sales support from a trusted mechanic is also a consideration.

Jas

RayLamp
11-01-2013, 09:13 AM
Next time I decide to do a tug-o-war on the water, I'll make sure I've got that two stroke torque...

And if I want to get to my fishing spot 1.5 seconds faster, I'll make sure I've got that two stroke power and hole shot.

And if you use their calculations, I will avoid 2 services (once every 100 hours, so at the 100 hour point, 200 hour point). Then both my 4 stroke and the evinrude will need a service at 300 hours. Man that's worth it.

And when I don't want to leave an oil slick behind me? Or when I want to hear the person speak next to me? Or when I want to use the motor in say, 6 years time? Yep, I think I will stick to my yammie which has not had one problem in 8 years of continual operation. Yeah it gets serviced, but it might have been in the dealer a total of 5 days over its lifespan so far. Really not an issue when those 5 days are spent at work anyway!

Still, good to watch and to discover that everyone has an opinion - and to them, their opinion is right.

Captain Seaweed
11-01-2013, 09:16 AM
smoke and mirrors

Camhawk88
11-01-2013, 09:17 AM
Ahhh marketing... gold. there are a lot of different factors that a person considers when buying a new outboard... every product has its pro's and con's .. just need to make sure for "Your" application the pro's of a particular outboard suit your usage or style of boating. After sales support from a trusted mechanic is also a consideration.

Jas

Too right. I wonder how many people buy an outboard based on its ability to tow another boat traveling the opposite direction? They should show the same test after 80 hours of use with the Merc towing the E-tec back to the repair shop. At least the Merc guys would know to tow from the front rather than the back:)

JB
11-01-2013, 09:23 AM
"And when I don't want to leave an oil slick behind me? Or when I want to hear the person speak next to me?"
... gold... so true.

I remember watching youtubes of outboards when shopping for my new 60hp... the sweet sound of the honda and then i'd listen to the etec holeshot 60hp... sounded like a noisy old lawnmower lol... quite happy with my choice!

cormorant
11-01-2013, 09:51 AM
Shame all maufacturers can't put up accurate standardised torque graphs and same goes for the magazine ests as a dyno is cheap these days and it would show why at different revs one may be sligtly better than the other.

Really we spend 50% of our time at idle, maybe 10% top end and 40% midrange so midrange is the key once the boat is out of the hole unless you are racing etc etc.

I think JD Powers consumer type survey with a bit more detail would also help as it give whole of life idea of the products a their overall cost, reliability , corrosion and support from the manufacturer. The USA where motors are cheaper and traded in on a more regular basis and lots are in fresh water skews survey data and is quite dfferent to Aussie usage pattern and how long we keep a motor.

I wonder if the merc, honda and yammi engineers have ever actually tried the test hemselves or just look on paper and see knowing what will happen? Now I tought the Suzuki is a powerhouse in the 150hp range I wonder how it would go? Probably no different as the rude would pick up slightly faster from idle and once moving backward you lose exhaust flow and don't make HP. Perhaps towing a static weight and getting it on the plane may be a different test as it would take out the factor of a boat motor being towed backwards not being able to breathe as well.?

It is just american marketing in the end and not my cup tea and a decent prop workover would for the exact test could make it go either way as there is still big gaps in the prop line ups for specific uses. Some venting on the Merc prop and it would spin up faster and still have the exact same profile at every other rev range?

I see that other brands are now headed down the diect injection path in a big way. Now that was never on the cards as it "could ever be made to work" but I guess anything to avoid putting on a cat converter?

Would I own either of these motors in 150hp- yep sure would but neither would be my first preference unless on a older boat and the Rude would get a run for it's light weight. .

fat-buoy
11-01-2013, 10:33 AM
Is it just me or at 2.42 is the Mercury trimmed up? Could be optical illusion but it looks like it is trimmed up a bit which would stuff it up right from the outset..

Either way I am not rushing out to buy either ... thank you very much but I will stick with Suzuki :)

Nicko_Cairns
11-01-2013, 10:36 AM
only problem with ETEC is you need 2 one to get out there and the other to get you home LOL

I've had an e-tec 75 for the last few years, never had a drama with it at all. Can't rate them highly enough. Had a Yamaha 85 years ago and spent shitloads on that grey money-bucket.

LittleSkipper
11-01-2013, 10:46 AM
I think that was not a fair test as this is the second time Evinrude have placed there outboard up against another 4 stroke just from a different manufacturer. Last time Yamaha this time Mercury. Both of them 4 strokes? Who's next on there hit list? Honda? Suzuki?

Why have Evinrude not done their testing against Mercury's Optimax 150HP DI 2 stroke?

Think about it?

gazza2006au
11-01-2013, 10:50 AM
they said the E-Tec was a 175hp called a 150hp up against a 150hp? thats the only reason it pulled the merc backwards they should compare engines HP rating at the prop and match both than do the test

i do like the E-Tec's over other engines tho

maimai
11-01-2013, 11:33 AM
It's been boring as hell on here, so this video should spice things up a little.
Hey, at least the mercury powered boat didn't capsize this time.
But by all counts it looks like this test was much fairer and it even looks as though the skipper off Merc powered boat got the power on before the Etec boat did.
Have fun with this guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfm64xkRU3o&feature=youtu.be



Its a promo add for etec what would one expect;D love to see 300 etec against 300 verado:o

The etec are a great motor ask anyone that owns one;D

cormorant
11-01-2013, 11:47 AM
they said the E-Tec was a 175hp called a 150hp up against a 150hp? thats the only reason it pulled the merc backwards they should compare engines HP rating at the prop and match both than do the test

i do like the E-Tec's over other engines tho


Say what Gazza??????


Yes the block is the same but they have a different program in the ECU. Are you saying they used the 175hp ECU mapping to do this test? Now I just don't believe that. It is a simple torque and acceleration test and I don't think they have had to fake it. Doesn't mean either motor is a dud or better overall unless your job is to tow identical boats backwards in tests. I think teh bait was there with Merc saying they had more torque from a 4 stroke and they possibly do at some point on the graph but BRP have taken them to task. Guess we need to wait for the merc reply test?

Jarrah Jack
11-01-2013, 12:32 PM
Good to see you back Jabba, wondered where you got to. I thought the rocket etec must've ripped your new transom off while you were jumping sandbanks again.

ozscott
11-01-2013, 01:32 PM
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/poll.php?pollid=372&do=showresults

propdinger
11-01-2013, 02:23 PM
I've had an e-tec 75 for the last few years, never had a drama with it at all. Can't rate them highly enough. Had a Yamaha 85 years ago and spent shitloads on that grey money-bucket.


Nicko i was only joking, i wont buy a ETEC but thats my choice what others buy i dont care. i have a outboard that suites my fishing and a service agent 50mtrs from work that i drop it off and pick up makes life easy.

Tickleish
11-01-2013, 03:00 PM
they said the E-Tec was a 175hp called a 150hp up against a 150hp? thats the only reason it pulled the merc backwards they should compare engines HP rating at the prop and match both than do the test

i do like the E-Tec's over other engines tho

They said the ETEC had 25hp more at 3500 rpm. Not 25hp more.

Humdinger
11-01-2013, 03:08 PM
they never mention reliability after a hundred hours

Tickleish
11-01-2013, 03:15 PM
Thats because they don't get to 100

Moonlighter
11-01-2013, 04:32 PM
Any product where they have to try to rubbish their competitors to get a sale loses me straight away. Just poor form in my opinion. Negative marketing. Smacks of desperation.

I switch off immediately.

Nicko_Cairns
11-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Ah okay mate.

I don't agree with the test either, e-tecs cop a lot of stick and most is unjustified imo, all from other outboard owners generally. I haven't had any other motors except the E-tec and the Yammy so can't compare against others, but no problems so far for a few years.


Nicko i was only joking, i wont buy a ETEC but thats my choice what others buy i dont care. i have a outboard that suites my fishing and a service agent 50mtrs from work that i drop it off and pick up makes life easy.

bigjimg
11-01-2013, 06:31 PM
Never watched it.Did I miss anything? Probably not.Jim

honda900
11-01-2013, 06:42 PM
3:49 Apparantly the Etec, doesnt need oil changes.. cool 300hrs no oil that will save some $$$$$$$$$, wow no running down the shop to fill up the 2- tank.. impressive...


LOL, once a year or once a week for oil.. that doesnt take any time at all.. ::)

Regards
Honda..

Jabba_
11-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Good to see you back Jabba, wondered where you got to. I thought the rocket etec must've ripped your new transom off while you were jumping sandbanks again.
Going through a divorce mate, it far-king sux.. I get to keep the boat though, however I probably end up selling it to put towards a deposit on another house..

johncar
11-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Going through a divorce mate, it far-king sux.. I get to keep the boat though, however I probably end up selling it to put towards a deposit on another house..

Been there, done that, was boatless for 8 years :/ but got a boat again now. All the best to you, hope things work out OK, stay positive and DON"T WASTE MONEY ON SOLICITORS...

Jarrah Jack
11-01-2013, 08:53 PM
Going through a divorce mate, it far-king sux.. I get to keep the boat though, however I probably end up selling it to put towards a deposit on another house..

Ouch. Not good at all mate. All the best with it.

NAGG
11-01-2013, 09:22 PM
Look how long it took to find another ETEC that was actually running to do the comparison ...... must be 5 years ;D
Chris

Dave_H
11-01-2013, 10:10 PM
Intersting in their spiel about the emissions they get Oxides of Nitrogen and Nitrous Oxide mixed-up.

Two totally different things.... One is an emission caused by high temperature combustion, the other saturates an intake charge with oxygen after it is injected and then as it is compressed during the compression stroke of a a "typical" two or four stroke engine.

Two very different things NOx and N2O. Muppets.

thylacene
11-01-2013, 11:13 PM
Intersting in their spiel about the emissions they get Oxides of Nitrogen and Nitrous Oxide mixed-up.

Two totally different things.... One is an emission caused by high temperature combustion, the other saturates an intake charge with oxygen after it is injected and then as it is compressed during the compression stroke of a a "typical" two or four stroke engine.

Two very different things NOx and N2O. Muppets.

Yep, one makes you giggle, the other makes you crook. And giggle you will, injected to engine or inhaled ;)

fisho8
12-01-2013, 05:47 AM
Interesting test not a fan of the etec's never will be ....give me a Merc/suzuki/yammi anyday no matter what the comparison. They do not mention the lack of parts and back up service in their comparison not a hell of alot of fact just a hell of a lot of bias. Merc won't need to really worry about this TBO as their sales/parts /back up service are proof enough they do not need to prove that their engine is better as they know they sell a good product....and that it is IMO. Love to put a new Pro/XS opti up against one....might be a different story. No matter how hard they best their chests over it.......They got nothing.

Cheers Mick

Bit of nostalga for everyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNokPOnPNa0

finga
12-01-2013, 08:11 AM
Good on ya fisho. Some real world testing showing what happens when (not if) you hit a sandbank to list just one thing they did.

I don't know if it was nostalgia though. It was a bit like walking into my back shed.

Spaniard_King
12-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Thatn sandbank test should be mandatory on all engines :)

stevej
12-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Since the invent of Etecs Hornets have been left alone.8-)

Toddy

speaking of hornets just had mine at the welders only 7 cracks this time

Steeler
12-01-2013, 09:56 AM
Interesting test not a fan of the etec's never will be ....give me a Merc/suzuki/yammi anyday no matter what the comparison. They do not mention the lack of parts and back up service in their comparison not a hell of alot of fact just alot just a hell of a lot of bias. Merc won't need to really worry about this TBO as their sales/parts /back up service are proof enough they do not need to prove that their engine is better as they know they sell a good product....and that it is IMO. Love to put a new Pro/XS opti up against one....might be a different story. No matter how hard they best their chests over it.......They got nothing.

Cheers Mick

Bit of nostalga for everyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNokPOnPNa0



Yeh baby. no spare injectors or ECU's required.

Tickleish
12-01-2013, 09:58 AM
They should put the ETEC up against this four stroke.

http://youtu.be/rnCGu-89q_c

Drifty75
12-01-2013, 10:26 AM
1995 25hp Johnson with around 6500 hours on it and has never been serviced regularly. It's had a couple of small fixes over the years and all done at home.

The money saved in servicing will more than pay for a new motor.

Needless to say the amount of crab and fish this boat has caught is inconceivable. My father bought it new in 95' and now I'm using it. Sometimes I wonder if servicing is just their way to generate more income in parts.

frankgrimes
12-01-2013, 10:55 AM
They should put the ETEC up against this four stroke.

http://youtu.be/rnCGu-89q_c

How sweet does that sound!

Mick

bf90
12-01-2013, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=Drifty75;1449171]1995 25hp Johnson with around 6500 hours on it and has never been serviced regularly. It's had a couple of small fixes over the years and all done at home.
Are you serious????? I myself have had my fair share if the old 2 banger 25hp johnrudes and they are a bloody good donk but no way in hell did i think they were good for that many hours!!!!!! I used to get rid of mine around the 300 hour mark so I would not get any problems.....silly me.:-)

stevet
12-01-2013, 12:13 PM
Mercury advertise their 150 4 stroke as

"Higher displacement means less work from the engine to produce torque and horsepower. The new Mercury 150 hp FourStroke is built to develop loads of torque at a stress level that will ensure higher durability than any other 150 hp outboard. Higher displacement simply means more torque and horsepower. The higher the torque, the faster the holeshot and acceleration. And more power equals faster top speeds. The Mercury 150 FourStroke is the only 150 FourStroke to have a torque curve rivaling the strongest two-strokes."

Gotta love the use of the word "rivalling" - infers near to or all but matches - BRP would say it is fair to test Merc's claim

Whole heartedly agree with Cormorant in hoping ( reckon in vain) that all manufacturers would issue torque and horspower curves to help us purchasers

by the way I have a merc

cheers
stevet

stevej
12-01-2013, 12:45 PM
1995 25hp Johnson with around 6500 hours on it and has never been serviced regularly. It's had a couple of small fixes over the years and all done at home.

The money saved in servicing will more than pay for a new motor.

Needless to say the amount of crab and fish this boat has caught is inconceivable. My father bought it new in 95' and now I'm using it. Sometimes I wonder if servicing is just their way to generate more income in parts.

i worked out on all the smaller sub 40 hp engines that if i didnt service them.
i could just sell it every 3 years and buy a new one and break even or a little in front

as long as your don't run it through sand that is

Jabba_
12-01-2013, 08:04 PM
They should put the ETEC up against this four stroke.

http://youtu.be/rnCGu-89q_c

God damn I love those Varados.....
Varados are torque monsters,, 2 E-tec 300's still wouldnt be a match for a Varado 300

gazza2006au
12-01-2013, 08:19 PM
yeah my mistake i thought they said the 150 E-Tec has 25hp more than the competitor also manufacturers are aloud to be within a percentage i dont know what the percentage is but u could be getting less hp the 150 or more even tho the engine is sold as a 150hp

cormorant
12-01-2013, 08:32 PM
110kw for merc and 112 for evinrude at the prop shaft. Rule was up to 10% from memory.

thylacene
13-01-2013, 05:54 AM
The " extra" 25hp was claimed at 3500rpm, a specific point in the rev range, not at max rpm.

Agree that it would be good for manufacturers to provide torque/HP/rpm graphs. Would make prop selection more science than art, not the complete answer, but informed decisions are usually better decisions.

Si
13-01-2013, 08:36 AM
God damn I love those Varados.....
Varados are torque monsters,, 2 E-tec 300's still wouldnt be a match for a Varado 300

Gee that sounds sweet. One question - Is it normal to have it in gear, i.e to have prop spinning waiting to kneecap someone??

finga
13-01-2013, 09:19 AM
They should put the ETEC up against this four stroke.

http://youtu.be/rnCGu-89q_c
Sounds a bit like my Victa.

I do like the sounds of this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1myzOhSCrek

fisho8
13-01-2013, 11:04 AM
Yeah Finga the Seven Marine 557 outboard are one kick ass unit mate I still love the verado's but I would love one on the back of my boat that is for sure. Love that supercharger noise but would not love seeing the fuel guagae drop as I am looking at it haha.

Drifty75
13-01-2013, 01:25 PM
[QUOTE=Drifty75;1449171]1995 25hp Johnson with around 6500 hours on it and has never been serviced regularly. It's had a couple of small fixes over the years and all done at home.
Are you serious????? I myself have had my fair share if the old 2 banger 25hp johnrudes and they are a bloody good donk but no way in hell did i think they were good for that many hours!!!!!! I used to get rid of mine around the 300 hour mark so I would not get any problems.....silly me.:-)


i worked out on all the smaller sub 40 hp engines that if i didnt service them.
i could just sell it every 3 years and buy a new one and break even or a little in front

as long as your don't run it through sand that is


I may have gone a bit over on the hours to be honest.. Lets assume 4 hours a week use. 16 hours a month. 192 hours per year... It's 17 years old... 3,200 hours.. Some weekends would be more, some would be less.. I just know this boat/motor has seen ALOT of hours. It's been up the rock wall at the mouth of the river... Run into almost every sandbank in the bay..

My dad bought it new in 95... Sold it to a mate, later bought it back off of him.. then sold it to another mate.. who then sold it back to him... Then sold it to his brother who I bought it from...

The impellor has been done once or twice.. The pull chord was done once, about 2 years ago.. (was original from 95') I did it again last week as it was rubbing on a sharp bit and almost snapped through. (gotta still fix a little bit of that sharp bit) I changed the plugs last week as well.

The skeg is almost all gone. She's revvin' hard which to everyone I've spoken with says she's gonna let go soon.. Which I can understand, the poor old girl. lol

At the moment the prop is half worn away, but still goes fine.. (gotta buy one in the next couple of weeks)

The amount of fish and crab this has brought home is overwhelming. I dare say it would be well into the hundreds. Probably 20 or 30 thousand for whiting. Not to mention the other crap it brought back. lol

I know those numbers seem high, but only 2 years ago I brought home about 800 winteries for the season. So it's easily doable.

Trusty old girl keeps on chuggin... And to think, still 17 years later I can start it with one pull... Meanwhile my father who has a newer boat with a 30 merc is there.. PULL PULL PULL... (mine has a choke/fuel injector)

Gon Fishun
13-01-2013, 02:13 PM
Sounds a bit like my Victa.

I do like the sounds of this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1myzOhSCrek

That 557 sounds like my Mums Hoover.

LittleSkipper
13-01-2013, 04:09 PM
Gee that sounds sweet. One question - Is it normal to have it in gear, i.e to have prop spinning waiting to kneecap someone??


I think the prop location is a little low to be a knee caper? More like an ankle biter I think?

tunaticer
13-01-2013, 05:13 PM
I'm not too sure how a joystick controller would go in the north qld chop........

finga
13-01-2013, 08:38 PM
That 557 sounds like my Mums Hoover.
Maaate. I have to see that Hoover working. I reckon it'll nearly be able to suck all the crap out of Parliament House. :D

Oi Jack. Which joystick are you talking about? ::)

EMURUNNER
13-01-2013, 10:34 PM
If 2 stroke motors were that good, car manufactures would have put them in cars years ago

STUIE63
14-01-2013, 06:23 AM
Finga the joystick mentioned is for the 557 outboard they don't have normal binnacle controls

finga
14-01-2013, 06:48 AM
If 2 stroke motors were that good, car manufactures would have put them in cars years ago
They did use 2 strokes years ago in cars and it loks as though there is a more then likely chance you'll see them again through this mob http://www.ecomotors.com/.
Even trucks had 2 stroke diesels and infact Detroit diesels are mainly 2 stroke. I just loved the sound of the Detroit diesels in the trawlers as they were going over the bar at Evans


Finga the joystick mentioned is for the 557 outboard they don't have normal binnacle controls
Yeah and a lot of the operators/instigators/board members/advertising company workers have their hands on their own personal joystick with some of the stuff they're doing/thinking up in these outboard versus outboard ads.

Camhawk88
14-01-2013, 08:00 AM
If 2 stroke motors were that good, car manufactures would have put them in cars years ago

I remember when I was a kid one of our neighbours at Horrocks Beach had a little Suzuki 4WD with a 2 banger. Noisey little bastard but it was deadly over sand dunes etc. Just couldnt handle a load but.

juggernaut
14-01-2013, 09:11 AM
If 2 stroke motors were that good, car manufactures would have put them in cars years ago

Mazda basically did in the form of a rotary.

In fact it was so good the engine capacity of the rotary was doubled when compared against conventional 4 strokes.

RayLamp
14-01-2013, 07:49 PM
I am always open to learning new things. I've never heard of 557 before. Not a fan of the 40's bathtub blue paint... know nothing else about them.

And slightly getting back to the original post - maybe it's my warped sense of humour, but I laughed when I learned that the evinrude portable outboards are 4 stroke! Evinrude doing 4 stroke? What's this world coming to!!!

gazza2006au
14-01-2013, 09:01 PM
I am always open to learning new things. I've never heard of 557 before. Not a fan of the 40's bathtub blue paint... know nothing else about them.

And slightly getting back to the original post - maybe it's my warped sense of humour, but I laughed when I learned that the evinrude portable outboards are 4 stroke! Evinrude doing 4 stroke? What's this world coming to!!!evinrude were building 4 strokes a long time ago before they started the E-tec's

Spaniard_King
14-01-2013, 09:04 PM
evinrude were building 4 strokes a long time ago before they started the E-tec's

and I thought they were just suzukis painted a diff colour

Gon Fishun
14-01-2013, 09:25 PM
It took a lot of searching but I found its name. DKW. it was a small tranversed engine with front wheel drive, 2 stroke engine and the gear stick was in the dash. Can't remember how the fuel oil was mixed but we drove it for months before the constant velocity joints failed.

When I was working at North Pine Motors I do recall working on a very small van that had a 2 cyl 2 stroke motor in them. Probably linked to Suzuki as they were the dealers.

thelump
14-01-2013, 09:27 PM
The Bongo van???

Gon Fishun
14-01-2013, 09:33 PM
The Bongo van???

You might be on the money there Macca. Sounds familiar.

Gon Fishun
14-01-2013, 09:39 PM
The Bongo van???

Did a google Macca. Bit more info.
Suzuki Carry van 1977 2 stroke 3 cylinder mid mount motor.
The Bongo was Mazda with 4cyl OHV 4 stroke.