I am amazed

[PinHead]

Every night there are boats crusing through the canal looking at the Xmas lights on houses. I am stunned at how few actaully have correct lighting on their boats.

I have noted the following:

Driving with nav lights but no all round white light
Driving with nav lights and all round but all round not the correct height.
Driving with all round light on and no nav lights
Driving with no lights at all
One boat has some Xmas lights around his targa..with green on the port side and red on the starboard...and no other lights on ..confusing to others.

It is not difficult to have correct lighting on a small boat but not many coming past here comply..amazing.

[tunaticer]

Yeah, life was much simpler with the trusty old Dolphin torch aye....

[gruntahunta]

Does one have to have lights. Lights stuff up ur night vision.

Any Ausfish flags flying.

[astro66]

more dont have any lights on than do here......worst are the big boats with huge deck /spotlights....coming down the river and he moves over to his port side to the bank so i cant get through so i slow to 6 knots to see what he was up to and he blinds us with these huge spotlights that could burn koalas out of trees....then he turns hard to the other side which is shallow sandbanks.....stops pretty much stops across the channel ....all the time trying to blind up permanantly with the friggn spot light ...lol still have white dots in my eyes...

[WalrusLike]

Koala burnt out of the tree.... I love your images...
:)

If someone spotlighted me I would be annoyed. I wonder if a mirror would be a good response.... Something like the motor racing trophys that is parabolic... all their light right back at them. :)

[Jarrah Jack]

Would only happen in Queensland Greg.....

[finga]

Every night there are boats crusing through the canal looking at the Xmas lights on houses. I am stunned at how few actaully have correct lighting on their boats.

I have noted the following:
Driving with nav lights and all round but all round not the correct height.
It is not difficult to have correct lighting on a small boat but not many coming past here comply..amazing.


It must be hard to comply Mr Pinhead. I spotted this today and instantly thought of you and this thread



https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GjU_VwWa4F0/UNUFhgkcUZI/AAAAAAAAEaw/SCGJhkMdraM/s640/IMAG0271.jpg

[WalrusLike]

Doesn't that rib comply? It's got a high all round white at rear. I assume there is either green and red individual or composite on the console.

Not outer edge of hull but good enough maybe? At least they won't be booked!

[finga]

Doesn't that rib comply? It's got a high all round white at rear. I assume there is either green and red individual or composite on the console.

Not outer edge of hull but good enough maybe? At least they won't be booked!
You can just make out the red light on the rear tower (follow the aerial to about half way up and you'll see a bit of red) and the green is right under the aerial mount.
Now read this (hint: section called all round white light.)
There is definitely one obvious problem and more then likely 2 problems.
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/msqinternet/msqfiles/home/safety/navigation%20lights/pdf_nmsc_brochure_tips_installing_nav_lights.pdf

[Moonlighter]

Definite FAIL #1: The white allround light is less than 1m higher than the side lights. Also, is is not on the centreline, and i can see no reason why this would ot be practicable. This requirement is not a "definite", so might escape with a warning on the centreline issue. But not the 1m requirement!

Probable FAIL #2: most likely, the side lights will not be properly visible from ahead (not sufficient coverage) due to obstruction by crew seated in the seats provided when underway.

Shows just how difficult proper nav lighting can be to achieve in RIBs where it is not easy to attach things to the side of the hull.

Having said that, some common sense should really be applied. His white will be perfectly visible under all normal operating conditions. The side lights are probably in just about the best practicable position you could put them on than boat.

But if he/she is a pedantic swine, would technically have to give himself/herself 2 breach notices!

ML

[Dan5]

It's not one meter higher than his nav lights or central.

[lucee81]

Not one to rain on your parade gentlemen but clearly youse didnt see the big sticker on the side otherwise you would have stopped yourselves for thinking they were in the wrong...

[finga]

And what about the 6 degree rule for all round white light with one or two people standing?

[WalrusLike]

My view was that it was above head height.... And assuming it had a bow composite or console individual lights it would be compliant by being more than a metre higher.

But with nav lights where you say they are then no....

[Aussie123]

There is no need to fix lights right on the center line.
The law states they must be as close as practicable.
The 360 degree white light is illegal and the nav lights could be deemed illegal on our boats due to restricted visibility but that on the day will come down to the officers interpretations.
No rego label on the port side would be another ticket.

[WalrusLike]

Another look makes me think that red is not a nav light but rather a police light..... It's way too big for a nav. It's a police light and also has the blue top hat up higher.

So it still may be compliment depending on where the nav lights are.....

I could be wrong though..... :)

[Aussie123]

It is a port nav light.
If it was a strobe light it would have a full 360 degree light.
Also the larger size of the nav light is because that is the law for all commercial vessels.

[Moonlighter]

Not one to rain on your parade gentlemen but clearly youse didnt see the big sticker on the side otherwise you would have stopped yourselves for thinking they were in the wrong...

Police are not immune to the law, despite what some of them might thnink.

The COLREGS are international law. All vessels must comply.

It would be good to see our official vessels setting the example, wouldn't it?!

Mind you, if they had me pulled over for a safety check and nav light check, even tough i fully comply, i might just think twice about pointing it out to them.....! Discretion, as they say......

ML

[WalrusLike]

Yeah but if I am right about nav lights elsewhere they actually are in regs.

It really would be surprising if they weren't.

[cormorant]

Is that rego number readable from the correct distance???

Bow up that white all round would be hard to see with big boofhead in the way from the front.

It is obviously a static display boat as no person would knowingly fit a merc to something they actually took on the water would they ? :o

[Fillet`n`Release]

Yeah we had quite a few boats through tonight, I fully expected that as the last Saturday evening before Christmas hits. And yeah I'd count at least a solid half dozen were seriously wanting in the safety dept. 3-4 tinnies with no lights, or lights so faint you were lucky to see them in contrast to any other light source on the canal. I didn't get pulled up this year, but I did last year for a full safety gear check and all was fine. Not sure if they were out in the canals at night jumping on people, kinda wish they were. Still have a few cowboys around here who think rules don't apply to them and they put not only their on safety but the safety of others at risk particularly with the heavy traffic this time of year. There were actually a few yakkers out tonight, and they had better lighting on their yaks and really bright headlamps than some of the boats.

Bet you're still wearing sunglasses in your back yard Pinhead, those houses down your way were just stunning. I'm not competetive when it comes to Christmas Lights, I just do it for the fun and enjoyment others get from it. But those guys are pros :)

[tomfisher]

I see this all the time in the banksia canals on bribie, 5-10 people in one stretch and only a few actually have lights

[PinHead]

Yeah we had quite a few boats through tonight, I fully expected that as the last Saturday evening before Christmas hits. And yeah I'd count at least a solid half dozen were seriously wanting in the safety dept. 3-4 tinnies with no lights, or lights so faint you were lucky to see them in contrast to any other light source on the canal. I didn't get pulled up this year, but I did last year for a full safety gear check and all was fine. Not sure if they were out in the canals at night jumping on people, kinda wish they were. Still have a few cowboys around here who think rules don't apply to them and they put not only their on safety but the safety of others at risk particularly with the heavy traffic this time of year. There were actually a few yakkers out tonight, and they had better lighting on their yaks and really bright headlamps than some of the boats.

Bet you're still wearing sunglasses in your back yard Pinhead, those houses down your way were just stunning. I'm not competetive when it comes to Christmas Lights, I just do it for the fun and enjoyment others get from it. But those guys are pros :)

Yep..not much need for lights on at my place..plenty of bright lights from across the canal. The yakkers went past here also.

[gruntahunta]

That white light may have an extendable pole to get it up to the one metre mark

[seatime]

Regarding the size and placement of navigation lights; there's no differentiation between commercial and recreational boats in the Collision Regs (which are applied thru commonwealth & state regs).
Qld commercially registered boats (e.g. police Rib in photo) carry a Registration Certificate onboard, in lieu of a sticker on the portside (as rec boats do).

[Luc]

CanDo would probably have a budget surplus after the Christmas holiday period if the 'lights at night' were enforced!!

[finga]

You know it makes really happy to see people get into the spirit of worthwhile things like Christmas, New Year, Australia Day and the one that means the most to me, Anzac Day.
You can actually see communities are getting closer together again I reckon. It's great!!!
We're off to a community New Year do at Allora this year. It'll be great fun and a whole lot different then just going to a party I reckon.



Yeah but if I am right about nav lights elsewhere they actually are in regs.

It really would be surprising if they weren't.
Mate, no matter how it boils down the navigational lights on that RIB are about as legal as sucking on a funny weed stick in a Court House.
The all round white light is no where near 1m above the red and green navigational lights. The all round white light is no where near high enough as more then 6 degrees of it's projection beam will be blocked out if a person/s stands up (might even be so when they're sitting). It is no where near high enough. It is not on an extendable pole.

The red and greens do not allow the entire arc of light towards the stem of the boat.

The rego numbers is what drew my attention. There is no way in hell are they 200mm high on a vertical plane. Wasn't there a thread ages ago about 200mm high numbers on a boat and the fact they're not legal if there are creases in the hull (as there are in every pressed tinny) and once the numbers go over the creases the height of the numbers in a vertical plane is not 200mm?

Not matter how you look at it that RIB is not legal to operate at night.
I've also seen the same setup on rescue boats.
Near every boat on the water will have a problem with the way the lights are set up. Even many new boats are illegal. The main culprit is near always the all round white light not more then 1m above the red and green or it;s just too bloody low for all round viewing.
It's not difficult to get lights legal. Why is there so much confusion as to what is legal and what is not? Why is there so much confusion as to what lights need to be displayed and when? I'm buggered if I know.

[theoldlegend]

You know it makes really happy to see people get into the spirit of worthwhile things like Christmas, New Year, Australia Day and the one that means the most to me, Anzac Day.
You can actually see communities are getting closer together again I reckon. It's great!!!
We're off to a community New Year do at Allora this year. It'll be great fun and a whole lot different then just going to a party I reckon.



Mate, no matter how it boils down the navigational lights on that RIB are about as legal as sucking on a funny weed stick in a Court House.
The all round white light is no where near 1m above the red and green navigational lights. The all round white light is no where near high enough as more then 6 degrees of it's projection beam will be blocked out if a person/s stands up (might even be so when they're sitting). It is no where near high enough. It is not on an extendable pole.

The red and greens do not allow the entire arc of light towards the stem of the boat.

The rego numbers is what drew my attention. There is no way in hell are they 200mm high on a vertical plane. Wasn't there a thread ages ago about 200mm high numbers on a boat and the fact they're not legal if there are creases in the hull (as there are in every pressed tinny) and once the numbers go over the creases the height of the numbers in a vertical plane is not 200mm?

Not matter how you look at it that RIB is not legal to operate at night.
I've also seen the same setup on rescue boats.
Near every boat on the water will have a problem with the way the lights are set up. Even many new boats are illegal. The main culprit is near always the all round white light not more then 1m above the red and green or it;s just too bloody low for all round viewing.
It's not difficult to get lights legal. Why is there so much confusion as to what is legal and what is not? Why is there so much confusion as to what lights need to be displayed and when? I'm buggered if I know.

I think it's the way the Parliamentary Draftsman uses terminology in such a way to make it confusing.

A simple example are the signs concerning U turns at traffic lights. You can only do a legal U turn at lights where a sign is posted stating "U Turn permitted". If there's no sign, then a U turn is illegal. People get pinched for this and then spit the dummy at the cops, but it's because of their own ignorance of the road rules.

Wouldn't it be a lot plainer if the sign read "No U turn"? You couldn't argue with that if you got pinched.


TOL

[finga]

I think it's the way the Parliamentary Draftsman uses terminology in such a way to make it confusing.

A simple example are the signs concerning U turns at traffic lights. You can only do a legal U turn at lights where a sign is posted stating "U Turn permitted". If there's no sign, then a U turn is illegal. People get pinched for this and then spit the dummy at the cops, but it's because of their own ignorance of the road rules.
Nope. It's more then perfectly clear I reckon.
All round white light
An all-round white light shows over a nominal arc of the horizon of 360°. The light fitting must be located at least one metre above the sidelights; and should as far as practicable, be on the centreline of the boat. As a general rule, an all round white light should not be obscured by masts or other structures by more than 6° of arc. If that’s not possible, or the light would shine into the operator’s eyes, a masthead light in combination with a stern light is an alternative to an all round white light.
Side lights
Most boats need to have a port (red) and a starboard (green) side light each showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 112.5°. If the design of the boat allows, a combination port and starboard light unit can be mounted on the centreline of the boat, in place of two individual side lights.
Individual side lights come in two styles, those intended to be mounted on a horizontal surface such as a
deck and those intended to be mounted on a vertical surface such as the topsides or the side of the cabin.
Be careful not to mount lights on a horizontal surface if they are designed to be mounted on a vertical surface, and vice-versa, because they will shine in the wrong direction.
Horizontally mounted side lights generally come with a reference line marked on them which must be kept parallel to the centreline of the boat when fitting the light.
Vertically mounted side lights must be fitted with the back of the light parallel to the centre line of the vessel so that the light will be visible in the correct sector and the lights don’t cross over. This means when lights are mounted on a vertical or near vertical surface that is not parallel to the centre line or not vertical, a wedge or similar must be provided to achieve the correct alignment in both planes


And as the what needs to go on and when.

* Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light. Sailboats under engine power are considered to be power-driven ships, and must show the same lights as a power-driven ship.
* All ships at anchor must show an all-round white light.

[Haji-Baba]

Finga, I think you will find that all ships, of what size I am not sure but they must show a white light on the forward mast and a higher white light on the rear mast. And a white stern light.
This was the case when I was Yacht racing on The Bay and Outside ocean racing.

Quite often you would see the two top lights well before the side lights.

Often in the bay the side lights were camoflaged by the back lights of the city.

If the top white lights were in line and the lower was to the fore you got out of the way pronto.

No time for coffee and sangers then. Move and move quickly these blokes don't see you and they may be doing 20 knots.

I can absolutely agree with Pinhead, spent a few hours after dark on the water just off the ledge at Bribie last Sunday evening, 2 boats were as I thought had legal lighting, at least 10 -12 others, at speed, went past me some without lights and others nav., lights only.

At least the ones in the canals looking at the lights were hopefully travellng slowly, the boats I saw were charging up the passage at planing speed.

A lot is left to be desired with personal safety of boat users both for them selves and others.

I am often on the water and see some strange things at times.

Have Fun Haji-Baba

[Aussie123]

Large vessels show 2 allround white lights when they are greater than 50m in length.
The second one is "above and abaft" of the main nav light.

[Haji-Baba]

Aussie correct me if I am wrong, the stern light fill the angle behind the Nav. lights???????????

Have Fun Haji-Baba

[Aussie123]

If a vessel runs a masthead light they must use a stern light to complete the 360 degrees of arc.
A masthead light has an arc of 225 degrees therefore the stern light has an arc of 135 degrees to complete the full 360.
They cannot run both a masthead and 360 all round at the same time unless it is a vessel greater than 50m in length and the 360 light is above and abaft of the masthead light.

[oldboot]

I definitely agree that there is an issue with people in general failing to display the correct lights on their boats at night......in fact it would be the exception that is fully compliant.


As for some of the points of argument.
The side lights
It is perfectly permissable to mount the side lights on the rear superstructure of a boat....it is pictured in an example on the colregs and other sources....there is no requiement for the beams to meet at the stem of the boat, it is almost unknown for the side lights to be viewed close in to the bow of any large boat....for that matter, unless a combined light is used, there is almost no case where the red and green lights can be viewed at the stem of the boat...........the concept is.......viewed at the horison
The side lights if as discussed are mounted high on the tower are 100% compliant.

The all round white light
It only has to be the prescribed distance above the side lights, IF it is used in leiu of bow and stern white lights while underway......other than that it can be at any height that shows 360deg white.........

As for being on centre...again...if it is used in leiu of a bow and stern light..it must be on centre...but only if a combined red and green is not used...........if not it is easy to make a case for it being off centre.....

we can not for sure say that it is above of below head height.
Besides...this standing up thing, is not covered by the coll regs or the state regs...this is a point that can be argued..........I would argue that......."our risk assement states, for a number of reasons, that we do not stand on this boat after dark".....

If we could see the whole boat and know that there where not other..perhaps demountable lights, that it is not compliant.

It is important that we read all of the text including the apendicies when considering lighting on vessles.

That said....there are plenty of people that have been booked for failing to show and all round white...(hundreds over a couple of days down the port of brisbane in one report)...but has anybody been booked for the light not being on the centreline.

cheers

[Boat Hog]

Look what you've done Pinny - woken up Oldboot!

Do submarines have nav lights?

[oldboot]

Well I see nothing much has changed arround here....people still cant get all their facts together.

Submarines certainly do have nav lights.....in fact if you read the regs, there is specific provision for them, but you will have to read & think a bit to see it.

cheers

[bigjimg]

I really don't see anything wrong with that RIB???Unless your standing on the seat that allrounder is not in any way obscured,it is a straddle type seat ,you sit on it.And is intended only for 2.As for the rego numbers where else are you going to put them....And Cormorant sorry mate, no hookup. I am amazed like Pinhead,that boat could sit out in the bay and make a fortune in one night. I was pulled over coming home from Tangas when I first got my boat for a random check and my rego stickers were only 175mm.I had to get them changed over to the correct size and he made a note on the laptop so the next check would alert the officer to make sure I was a good boy. Jim

[Richo1]

Having a read through the Col Regs trying to see how they get away with it and i found this;

Annex I of the Col Regs
Section 2 (d) a power driven vessel less than 12m in length may carry the uppermost light at a height of less than 2.5m above the gunwale.

So if they have an all-round light(visible 360'), sidelights and no stern light: the all-round light doesn't have to be 1m or higher above the side lights.
If you have a masthead light (visible 225') and a stern light, the masthead light must be at least 1m above the sidelights.

Maybe that's how they get away with it?

[oldboot]

Sorry mate but, as I said you have to read all of part C and note the various parts that relate as you go.

Rule 23 para c-i permits craft under 12 meters to exhibit an all round white in leiu of a mast head light and a stern light.

Rule 23 para c-iii specifies that the all round white must be on the centreline unless the red and green are combined in a single lantern carried on the centreline..OR..carried on the same line as the masthead light.

Apendix I para 2d, specifies that, on a boat under 12 meters, as well as allowing the whites to be acrried at less than 2.5 meters above the gunwals....the single all round white or the masthead light must be carried at least 1 meter above the side lights.

cheers

[Richo1]

Clear as mud hey.
The 23(d)(i) bit I started to loose track of it all and the brain was starting to blur.

Cheers

[cormorant]

I really don't see anything wrong with that RIB???Unless your standing on the seat that allrounder is not in any way obscured,it is a straddle type seat ,you sit on it.And is intended only for 2.As for the rego numbers where else are you going to put them....And Cormorant sorry mate, no hookup. I am amazed like Pinhead,that boat could sit out in the bay and make a fortune in one night. I was pulled over coming home from Tangas when I first got my boat for a random check and my rego stickers were only 175mm.I had to get them changed over to the correct size and he made a note on the laptop so the next check would alert the officer to make sure I was a good boy. Jim


Ahhh that's why they call it fishing not catching. Still have to throw the bait out. Must be a row boat I guess not a power vessel.