PDA

View Full Version : Thinking of downsizing from 5.3m glass boat to 4.7m tinnie.



mattyd
23-11-2012, 04:17 PM
For a while now I've been considering selling our beloved 2006 Freedom Escape (1st boat) and downsizing to something a little lighter in towing, ramp handling (even allow for a few solo outings if possible). My current total kerb weight would be about 1050kg (boat / trailer / motor / 80l fuel).

I had a few questions about the process. Mainly if it's a waste of time / money and if I would be better off to simply 'love the one your with' :-?

The sort of fishing I do is general recreational stuff around the bay anywhere from Bribie - Moreton - Straddie - Goldy. It's mainly my wife & I.

The sort of boat I was thinking of was a 470 Topender SC (this 2013 model looks the ducks nuts: http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=12124653&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=0&eapi=2 )

The hull weight seems only 50kg lighter than my current glass boat... Will I really notice such a min. difference in the overall weight of the package?

If not then I'm going to have to look at Polycraft or something lighter again, especially if I want to try a few solo outings when the missus is busy :D I'm going to miss the ride quality and handling of a glass boat, but the open layout of a side console and lighter weight will hopefully outweigh the cons.

Lastly in regard to selling, I'm guessing that a trade-in would be almost like giving it away? Boatpoint lists my 2006 17ft Freedom Escape (90hp ETEC) at around $23-25k. I'm guessing a trade would be lucky to get about $10k. Would you guys recommend selling privately rather than trade?

Thanks in advance, any advice here appreciated.

Matt

mattyd
27-11-2012, 10:17 AM
OK - so not m(any) of you have gone through the exercise of downsizing I take it.... :(

Has anyone gone from a glass boat to a tinnie or platey?

Any Quintrex Topender owners, or maybe something like Bluefin Wrangler owners can tell me if they can get their 4.7 - 4.8m vessels out on the water solo?

The only other thing is we rarely get wet in the bay with our current cuddy cab glass boat - is this going to change with the smaller aliuminium vessels mentioned above?

Chimo
27-11-2012, 10:52 AM
Hi Matty

For what its worth IMHO you wont notice much difference towing, you will use a bit less fuel and you will have a lot less comfort and get wet and wind affected. If there is to be a family at some future time you will probably want / need a cabin / cuddy.

IMHO You may benefit more from further developing your launch and retrieve techniques. There is no reason for a big boat to be hard to launch and retrieve if you sort out the method and set your trailer up to suit. When I trailer my 6.2 Vagabond (not far short of about 2 tonne with fuel water two motors etc and close to 2.5 with trailer) I usually launch and retrieve it solo and its not too hard even in rough and windy conditions. Have you sat at the ramp and taken note of the good the bad and the ugly and contrasted your methods with theirs?

What problems are you having at the ramp now?

Your hesitation is appropriate as you will throw $s away for probably a less satisfactory outcome.

Cheers
Chimo
PS I went from FRP to Al and then to FRP and also have a couple of little Al s for knock abouts The FRP is all weather and the Al s are fair weather only.

Be interesting to see which way you and yours go with this.

mattyd
27-11-2012, 11:31 AM
Thanks Chimo, to be honest I'm usually so focused on getting everything ready to go at the ramp I really don't take too much notice of other vessels & their retrieval techniques (unless of course someone is taking 10mins+ rigging on the ramp, or a jet ski which was doing 'test runs' while leaving their trailer parked on the ramp the whole time!).

I normally give a bloke a hand if he's by himself trying to retrieve his tinnie in the wind, but I don't see a lot of bigger boats being launched solo at my usual ramps (Pinkenba, Scarborough, Clontarf & Viccy Pt).

I borrow the old man's little tinnie on occasion (a tiny little ~4m Horizon) and it's just so light & easy to drag up on a bank to go fishing, or yabbying in the Noosa river, Bribie passage. I compare it to what I go through with the Freedom as it's just so damn heavy. But I admit we usually get wet in even the slightest chop when we're out in the tinnie.

I can't imagine (even with a drive on submersible trailer) that it would be an easy task at the ramps I use, except maybe Clontarf as it has a beach and harbour. The main hurdle I see is getting in & out of the boat to take on the skipper & passenger roles when you're launching or retrieving. Surely you would have to complete the task while staying out of the boat and dragging it around by the bow rope and up on the beach, anchor, then go & get the car & trailer off the ramp.

Appreciate your feedback Chimo. As I suspected it's looking better to keep the vessel we've got and look at improving launch / retrieve techniques.

Matt

ozynorts
27-11-2012, 11:35 AM
Hey mate, I wasn't sure how to answer but I think chimo has said it well. I have a 5.5m glass boat and don't have any probs solo launching. I just take my time and once the boat is off I just pull it onto the sand and put the car away. When coming back in just nudge onto sand and do the reverse.
Cheers
Ozy

Jarrah Jack
27-11-2012, 12:15 PM
I've got a 4.2 tinnie and a 5.2 glass and I find the glass boat to be quicker and easier to launch and retrieve. As Chimo has mentioned its all about how the trailer/boat are setup and how you go about it.

With the glass I drive on drive off and have one of those launch and retrieve latches. The only time I stuff up is when someone is helping me like last night and I change my routine.::) I've also got a ladder system so I can get on and off the boat from the trailer with ease.

Its a matter of getting the system right for your boat and the ramps you use. I would keep the glass and get a tinnie as well with the money you'll be saving by not doing the changeover.

ozynorts
27-11-2012, 12:47 PM
Yeah matty, I do everything from the beach. My trailer is not setup up for drive on/off so I just push it off and winch on. I would suggest you try it out and see what works for you. It won't cost much to try the different options as opposed to selling and buying again. I can get the boat on or off fairly quickly and in fact the other day I was off the ramp before that 2 guys next to me drove on their boat.
Cheers
Ozy

mattyd
27-11-2012, 01:14 PM
Good call thanks Ozy. I might try this in a nice 5-10 knot wind at Clontarf with the beach right beside the ramp. I've invested in an anchor retrieval system which has proved itself time & again (esp with a cuddy cab with VERY low ceiling!). Not having to get up & through the hatch every fishing spot has been a god send.

Like anything, practice makes perfect so I'll adjust my routine accordingly.

Cheers for the tips,

Matt

Chimo
27-11-2012, 02:23 PM
Jarrah Jack

:"I would keep the glass and get a tinnie as well with the money you'll be saving by not doing the changeover"

This is the sort of thought process that makes us all unbeatable.!

Matt, try pulling out your winch hook and securing it to the end of the trailer. Back the trailer in so the last roller is just under water. You parked your boat up wind of the trailer so now push the boat straight out from the beach while holding the paynter so the wind / current pushes it across past the back of your trailer. As its gliding along pull it in so the bow connects with the centre roller. Now pass your paynter around the winch post (or the hook you installed for this purpose) and while keeping the bow tight on / against the centre roller connect the hook to the bow eye. Now while still keeping the bow in position return the the winch and load your boat. Fasten safety chain and drive to the rigging site and remove bungs and attach flag and rear tie downs. Drive home saying aloud, what was I worrying about!

Cheers
Chimo

mattyd
27-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Nice work thanks chimo, I'll have to put this strategy into action and try it out soon!

warti
27-11-2012, 06:49 PM
I am going to agree with the two boats strategy. I have a 5.8m glassy and a 4m tinny. The best of both worlds. The misses has had a couple of bad trips in the bigger boat and won't go in it anymore. But she is good in the tinny with my young fella so I still have had a win in some ways.

BigE
27-11-2012, 07:32 PM
Mat
I have just done what you are contemplating, i went from a 1750l haines to a 530 quinny spirit ..... and I couldnt be happier, it's lighter and easier to handle solo the walk through screen and cabin was a revelation , i will never have another cabin boat with out this feature. The tinny is much much more stable and easier to fish from.
So what were the negitives. well to be honest the only negitive is it's a tinny so if it is over .5 M you will need to (a) travel slower (b) damage the boat. other than speed over ground everything else is better and less stressful and I fish about twice as much with the quinny over the haines as everything is just that much easier. easier to tow - easier to launch and retrive - easier to wash and look after - no stress about a bump on the ramp or pontoon - better fuel ecom - better to fish from - easier to set and retrive the anchor - it is all better except speed. so all you need to answer is ...... how fast do i want (need )to go.

BigE

Giffo65
27-11-2012, 08:37 PM
Mattyd

Have you thought about an electric winch,a mate had a large heavy glass boat with a electric winch, and a cable that ran from the winch,down the winch post and followed the trailer frame.He could position the boat and pull on the cable at the rear of the trailer and winch the boat on in windy or cross current conditions.I have a 4.5m open boat and they are wet,good for intended use (Fishing), but wet.At times would love a cab to be dry and warm.

johncar
28-11-2012, 08:51 AM
I too have pained over the dilema. A smaller lighter rig I know I will use more but I still want my cabin boat for going further and some comfort when doing so. I agree with Chimo and others that most trailer boats when setup well should be manageable on your own, which is my lot most times with a 6.6m ally cabin and hard top boat. It it well set up and I can easily do it but I know that an exposed ramp to wind and currents would give me more grief, so I am selective where I launch when going solo being some restriction.
I know of others that have the two boat setup being a larger cabin boat and a smaller tinnie and I know that they use their smaller tinnies more often despite their lesser comforts because I am sure that the ease and convenience of getting on the road and water and home again for a couple of hours out for a fish just makes more sense.
I am currently sctratching every $ I can save at the moment for just that, a smaller open CC ally boat, it is being built at Origin Boats and I intend to use it heaps. It will be the "mini me" of my cabin boat.

If the budget won't stretch to a second boat and you are sure that you will be happier with the lighter rig and therefore use it more, then there is no reason why not, you got to be happy. Shame you have to lose a bit on your Freedom but we have all done it at some stage to get what we think we want, I am sure.
Good luck with your decision

mattyd
28-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Mat
I have just done what you are contemplating, i went from a 1750l haines to a 530 quinny spirit ..... and I couldnt be happier, it's lighter and easier to handle solo the walk through screen and cabin was a revelation , i will never have another cabin boat with out this feature. The tinny is much much more stable and easier to fish from.
So what were the negitives. well to be honest the only negitive is it's a tinny so if it is over .5 M you will need to (a) travel slower (b) damage the boat. other than speed over ground everything else is better and less stressful and I fish about twice as much with the quinny over the haines as everything is just that much easier. easier to tow - easier to launch and retrive - easier to wash and look after - no stress about a bump on the ramp or pontoon - better fuel ecom - better to fish from - easier to set and retrive the anchor - it is all better except speed. so all you need to answer is ...... how fast do i want (need )to go.

BigE

That's interesting to read BigE. The walk through windscreen (or lack thereof) has been a regret ever since buying the boat. I'm 6ft4 and getting into that bloody cabin every time we changed spots grew old very quickly..... (thus the anchor retrieval system).

When you say you would damage the boat going fast in anything over .5m swell, is that due to the ali hull hitting harder and jolting everything on board?



Mattyd

Have you thought about an electric winch,a mate had a large heavy glass boat with a electric winch, and a cable that ran from the winch,down the winch post and followed the trailer frame.He could position the boat and pull on the cable at the rear of the trailer and winch the boat on in windy or cross current conditions.I have a 4.5m open boat and they are wet,good for intended use (Fishing), but wet.At times would love a cab to be dry and warm.

Thanks for the suggestion Giffo. I actually don't mind the winding in of the winch, but an electric may make the job of keeping everything tight a bit easier. I'm going to try Chimo's suggestion with the bow rope & walking it around manually to see how I go.

Good point about the issue of staying dry. Occasionally I'll bash through a wave the wrong way and we'll get a splash over the windshield (we never use our clears), but other than that it's never wet. It seems most of the time we get out on weekends the bloody bay is at least .7m

Thanks for the feedback.

Matt

PADDLES
28-11-2012, 09:35 AM
Hey Matty, what sort of car do you drive and how far do you sink your trailer? I'm not shy when it comes to sinking my trailer deep so I can easily pull a boat up and only winch it for the last couple of feet, but having a 4wd makes this a bit easier because the increased clearance makes it easier to back deeper into the water without any bodywork getting wet. ie. sometimes my back wheels are in a few inches of water. I find this makes launching and retreiving a breeze but you still get wet legs so i just have a towel standing by in the car footwell to soak up any drips.

mattyd
28-11-2012, 09:59 AM
I too have pained over the dilema. A smaller lighter rig I know I will use more but I still want my cabin boat for going further and some comfort when doing so. I agree with Chimo and others that most trailer boats when setup well should be manageable on your own, which is my lot most times with a 6.6m ally cabin and hard top boat. It it well set up and I can easily do it but I know that an exposed ramp to wind and currents would give me more grief, so I am selective where I launch when going solo being some restriction.
I know of others that have the two boat setup being a larger cabin boat and a smaller tinnie and I know that they use their smaller tinnies more often despite their lesser comforts because I am sure that the ease and convenience of getting on the road and water and home again for a couple of hours out for a fish just makes more sense.
I am currently sctratching every $ I can save at the moment for just that, a smaller open CC ally boat, it is being built at Origin Boats and I intend to use it heaps. It will be the "mini me" of my cabin boat.

If the budget won't stretch to a second boat and you are sure that you will be happier with the lighter rig and therefore use it more, then there is no reason why not, you got to be happy. Shame you have to lose a bit on your Freedom but we have all done it at some stage to get what we think we want, I am sure.
Good luck with your decision

That would be my ideal John, but I know rego/insurance is painful enough as it is without multiplying the expenses x2. I envy you getting a second CC ally boat, I reckon the ability to fish all round without any restriction would be awesome. The other reason I couldn't get a second boat is purely yard space. Living at inner north Wooloowin makes yard space pretty tight as is (10m frontage, and 1" side clearance just gets me through the gate each time I back her in the front yard!!).

But I agree about the ease of the whole experience start to finish, to get out for a few hours fishing on a Sat or Sunday morning. Hassle factor is way reduced with a little ally boat.


Hey Matty, what sort of car do you drive and how far do you sink your trailer? I'm not shy when it comes to sinking my trailer deep so I can easily pull a boat up and only winch it for the last couple of feet, but having a 4wd makes this a bit easier because the increased clearance makes it easier to back deeper into the water without any bodywork getting wet. ie. sometimes my back wheels are in a few inches of water. I find this makes launching and retreiving a breeze but you still get wet legs so i just have a towel standing by in the car footwell to soak up any drips.

Hey Paddles, I own an AWD Subie Forester (turbo :) ) and it has done a few soft sand beach launches with this boat. I try to back her down so the back tyres are just on the waters edge. I agree it's much easier to sink the trailer further. I recently had a $600 service on my Sealink submersible trailer (new hubs, brakes etc) so I'm probably a bit precious about sinking it completely now.... but really I guess that's what they're designed for so I should just go all the way and dunk her!

WalrusLike
28-11-2012, 10:08 AM
Have a look at the inventions thread. One bloke has a drive on/off self launch system using a rope a ring and a hook on the trailer.

I modified but did near same thing and it works fine. Haven't used it much since i am rarely solo but it cost next to nothing and is there if I want it.

Chimo
28-11-2012, 11:10 AM
Matty

I too went a bit like you and blue too after constant repair bills for 4 braked wheels, hence the method outlined above after your comment " I'm probably a bit precious about sinking it completely now" and with a suitable tow car why just add to running costs when with a different method the boats loaded and the brakes work and there are next to no ongoing maintenance costs and down time. (Paddles and I agreed to disagree on this eons ago)


Cheers
Chimo

PADDLES
28-11-2012, 03:14 PM
that's right, we did too chimo. i understand fully though, a trailer is an expensive piece of kit and is something that can really spoil your day when it fails. i'm lucky to be not far from my ramp so my trailer hardly gets the chance to dry and i also have a bore with plenty of water so i just deluge the thing to wash it. i'm also a bit of a maintenance freak so i always stay on top of my trailer's condition and keep the dreaded corrosion at bay.

BigE
28-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Matty
Re the previous post. Glass boats like my old haines have a sharp deep Vee and are able to maintain a higher speed through Chop and swell, Ali boats ESP Tinnies cannot maintain the speed due to the flater Vee area. That been said you can drive a tinny fast through chop , but it will break eventually and the ride will leave a lot to be desired. most people run into trouble when they try to get a boat to do something it was not designed to do. the ride in a tinny can be just as good as a glass if you just slow down. I suppose this is the fundamental reason the some guys have tinnys for decades with out dramas and some guys can brake em in 6 mths.



BigE