Artificial reef

[rando]

For many years i have thought The concrete road dividers used for road construction would make great artificial reef components.Stack them up in a grid pattern several layers high.

Driving on the gateway Northbound about a km before the bridge is a big stockpile of them left over from the roadworks along that road.
They now have a for sale sign on them.
TOO BAD we now have a government that doesn't give a toss about rec fishing.Missed opportunity:'(.

[johncar]

yes I agree they could be put to good use like that. The Govt makes a shitload of money out of us rec fishos, it's laughable what they give back. The situation was better 50 years ago when we had a fraction of the population spending their hard earned cash on it. Plenty spent on tarting up trendy beachfront areas though so the weekend yuppies can sip coffee and give the seagulls high colesterol with the scraps they feed them.
So called beautification works at Bribie nearly claimed one boat ramp recently and if it wasn't for a few of us making a lot of noise it would have quietly dissappeared for sure. I really like the place the way it was with it's more natural shoreline with the exception of the off boat ramp of course lol.
If we had a decent barge, it would be great to take all that left over concrete out to sea and create more fish habitat. I'd be helping. Mind you one would have to jump through so many hoops to get all the approvals..

[TimiBoy]

I recall Mark supported using the Hornibrook pylons as 'materials of opportunity' for an extra 2 artis. But Labor turned him down.


Some materials of opportunity have significant downsides eg. they may leach harmful chemicals.


Scientists prefer custom designed material like reef balls.


The government's policy includes artis as part of the marine infrastructure fund Mark Robinson helped establish. Artis can be proposed by local fishing groups - so if you guys want to make a submission and include the road barriers it would probably be looked at, but the materials may not be deemed suitable. Those barriers have a lot of steel in them and I'm not sure that they would last all that long under water, but hey, why not make the proposal?

[finga]

the materials may not be deemed suitable. Those barriers have a lot of steel in them and I'm not sure that they would last all that long under water, but hey, why not make the proposal?
If that be the case then someone stuffed up
Look at the two things they use for arti's at the bottom of this page. Steel and steel reinforced concrete.
http://www.nprsr.qld.gov.au/parks/moreton-bay/zoning/trial_artificial_reef_program.html#reef_materials
Isn't there a steel ship or two used as arti's as well? Isn't Harry's made up of old trams, tyres, shopping carts and concrete pipes?

Labor may have knocked Mark back BUT Mark's mob is here now so why doesn't Mark make the submission/suggestion/proposal now it's be suggested.
Wasn't there a mention of more arti's just before the election by the Can-Dope's??
http://lnp.org.au/policies/better-infrastructure-and-better-planning/investing-in-our-waterways-for-the-future
It might be a great opportunity to act upon what they've been sprooking about I reckon.

[WalrusLike]

I wouldn't hold my breath.... I bet it doesn't happen.

All pollies will do wonderful things right up to the moment they are in power. Then it's 'keep your head down and hold out for the golden pension'.

Unless they are bucking for leadership in which case they are all for whatever the incumbent is against.

[Lucky_Phill]

More artri's will be deployed in Queenslands offshore waters. I can promise that. ;) ;D 8-)

What I can also say, is that Government ( State ) will probably not fund them, but will have a " management roll ".

There are proposals underway for submissions to Government on where, when, how many and types.

I was on the MBMP Arti program / working group and have good knowledge of what is required and what types of materials are best.

FWIW.

Steel ( bare ) structures make the best arti in most cases.

Ships are a pain in the butt and really are not cost effective ( let the scuba folk have them ).

Reef Balls ( concrete special blend ) have their place in shallower waters with minimal tidal flow.

Some info here :-

http://www.reefballaustralia.com.au/

This is the ideal offshore structure:-

http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/artificial-reef-draws-big-crowds

To deploy a arti reef takes getting through a lot of red tape.

State & Federal stuff, Navigational issues, Fisheries, Environment groups, DAFF and about 10 other departments all want a say. The hardest part of arti reef deployment is the PAPERWORK !!!!! >:( >:( >:(

As stated, Materials of Opportunity ( free stuff ) is only free is far as given to you, then you have to move / transport it, clean it, map out suitable area and deploy via barge etc, all that costs money.... and the actual deployment in the water is the killer.

If anyone has ideas.... that includes a fully funded proposal, please send them my way and I'll get them to the right people.


cheers LP

[TimiBoy]

Was it 40 something million they are spending on ramps etc? I love the way folks have ideas, but when asked to act upon them, they just accuse someone else of not having the idea, then they accuse them of not carrying through. Seriously, if the whole of Commonwealth Waters were turned into an arti regardless of cost, some folks just wouldn't be happy.

I spend a bit of time (when I can get it) with Mark. He puts in hours I could never keep up with (including working Sundays and Public Holidays), yet when someone comes up with 1/50th of one proposal, he cops it in the neck because he doesn't pick it up and run with it? Geez, some people have some amazing expectations. Very creative, thoughtful and incisive thinking, as is usual here. I think another month or two away from the ausfish trollfest will do me good.

[Horse]

More artri's will be deployed in Queenslands offshore waters. I can promise that. ;) ;D 8-)

What I can also say, is that Government ( State ) will probably not fund them, but will have a " management roll ".


To deploy a arti reef takes getting through a lot of red tape.

State & Federal stuff, Navigational issues, Fisheries, Environment groups, DAFF and about 10 other departments all want a say. The hardest part of arti reef deployment is the PAPERWORK !!!!! >:( >:( >:(

As stated, Materials of Opportunity ( free stuff ) is only free is far as given to you, then you have to move / transport it, clean it, map out suitable area and deploy via barge etc, all that costs money.... and the actual deployment in the water is the killer.

If anyone has ideas.... that includes a fully funded proposal, please send them my way and I'll get them to the right people.


cheers LP

It sounds like the current regime is more of a stumbling block than a facilitator for the development of new artificials. With the amount of money the various levels of government take from recreational fishos each year you would think they could do better than this. So Phill, what is the funding model. Chook raffles or Bunnings sausage sizzles?
I wonder if we could gain corporate support with naming rights for the reef structures. In the US they have memorial reefs where your ashes are incorporated into a reef ball and they use the funds to deploy the ball as part of a reef. Better than sitting on the mantlepiece I suppose

[Lucky_Phill]

I wonder if we could gain corporate support with naming rights for the reef structures. In the US they have memorial reefs where your ashes are incorporated into a reef ball and they use the funds to deploy the ball as part of a reef. Better than sitting on the mantlepiece I suppose

sshhhh Yes & Yes. ;)

All in the pipeline, so to speak.

It does take time. And must be of benefit to the supporter.

LP

[Horse]

Clive Palmer and a reef off Coolum??????;D. Sinking his Titanic replica perhaps???:-X

[Mike Delisser]

I spend a bit of time (when I can get it) with Mark. He puts in hours I could never keep up with (including working Sundays and Public Holidays), yet when someone comes up with 1/50th of one proposal, he cops it in the neck because he doesn't pick it up and run with it? .

If MP Mark Gunna Robinson just came through with 1/50th of what he promised us he was going to do I doubt he'd cop any flack at all.

[finga]

So Timi....Can-But-Won't has put in writing there is a commitment to spend $50,000,000 on small marine infrastructure such as boat ramps, artificial reefs and pontoons and another $120 million ging towards a Marine Infrastructure Fund over four years.
What 'projects' are going to be done with this $50,000,000??
They must know what they're going to do as they know it's going to cost $50,000,000. Wouldn't that assumption make sense?

What's a marine infrastructure fund??

[Lucky_Phill]

If MP Mark Gunna Robinson just came through with 1/50th of what he promised us he was going to do I doubt he'd cop any flack at all.

Well Mike, he has.

Fact. MP Mark got the idea of a Rec Fishing Licence quashed,( not on the LNP table for discussion now ) even though the Minister was open to the idea. He did not go on about this as he was simply passing on the feelings of the rec fishing community here in Queensland. .... yes those feelings were vented here on AF.

At least with that issue, he had some control........ ex - Shadow Fisheries Minister and informed Rec Fisher.

Cheers

[Lucky_Phill]

LNP Policy Commitments:


$120 million Marine Infrastructure Fund over four years
$50 million for small marine infrastructure such as boat ramps, artificial reefs and pontoons
$30 millon to improve access to Gold Coast Waterways
$40 millon to improve access to Cairns' Trinity Inlet

I am unsure how the funds are to be distributed and when, but this is STILL policy. I suspect it is not high on the priority list and will come into play when the first budget is handed down. The details should be laid out then.

" Modest sized boat ramps can be built for less than $1 million and fishing platforms and
pontoons can be built for less than $500,000. On this basis this fund could build up to
25 boat ramps, along with 15 pontoons and 15 fishing platforms. "


Just wondering if anyone here has made submissions to the Minister, Premier , State Member or other MP's about where THEY would like to see the money spent ??? :-?


cheers

[finga]

How do we make a submission?

I always thought concerned State members of Parliament knew what their constituents wanted (they know what their local constituents want as they went out and talked with their constituents) and the State member was the person who lobbied for the needed item ie boat ramp.
What do State members do?
What does your State member do?
What does your federal member do?

[Lucky_Phill]

Well I am glad you asked... :)

How to make a submission.

1. Put in writing what, where and how you want the funding spent and hand it perrsonally to your State member or the Minister. You can go into as much depth as you want... costing per item you want, funds distribtuion, tender process, preferred contractors, time frame, participation rates for item, community benefit, ongoing costs, environmental impact statement, management arrangements, and more..

2. State members have meetings with their constituients and advisors and then take " rumblings " to the table ( LNP meetings ). They are also involved in connecting with the people, advising the Ministers, doing the " community " things ( cutting ribbons, being patrons of entities etc ) and in some cases, interacting with the internet community of their choice. ;)

3. MY State member has taken my thoughts to his boss. I have had one lengthy meeting with him, several email communications and phone calls. My next meeting is before Xmas. You know the " extrapolation " system, well it works best with face to face meetings. :)

4. My Federal member sits on his hands and begs for mercy from our Prime Minister. He does not communicate with me very much. In fact, he is never available for a meeting with me, as he seems to always be in Canberra, where, I might add, his ex girlfriend runs the country.... :-X Oh, that's right, that's no secret.

Yes, your local member will lobby for what his or her constituients want, or more so....need. If you are in an electroate that is marginal, you will get funding, if it is a safe seat, you will also get funding, but in a different way. If your local member is a Minister, that is best, hence the DAFF Minister is from Toowoomba and is more interested in Agri-business than Fisheries, although there is a bent for the commercial fishery.. :(

Now, if a group, let's just say Sunfish, put a fully costed proposal to McVeigh ( Minister DAFF ) for 6 arti reefs in SEQ, I am sure it will be taken seriously and considered on its merits. If that proposal was backed up with 300 plus private submissions, then I believe, you'd have those arti's in good time. Numbers.... it's all about the numbers.... ;)

If you want similar things for fresh water places, the same applies.

Even the simpliest thing, like a fish cleaning table at a particular ramp..... has to go through the right channels ( the pun intended :) ) and in the end, the less work the Govt do in regard to research etc, the better it is for them. Hand them a document, they pass it around to interested departments, they sign off on it and " Billy Bobs ya Uncle ". ;D 8-)


LP

[finga]

[QUOTE=Lucky_Phill;1436063]
Gees Phill. Thanks for that.

So what submissions have been....well submitted, with that submission been accepted as a good idea and become reality in the last 5-10 years that you know of??
Were they submitted by Joe Blow's sister Sheila or someone sitting in a member's office?

[Fafnir]

So what submissions have been....well submitted, with that submission been accepted as a good idea and become reality in the last 5-10 years that you know of??
Were they submitted by Joe Blow's sister Sheila or someone sitting in a member's office?

Counting environmental groups making submissions about sticking a heap of green zones around the place? From what I can tell when I'm out on the water some of their submissions seem to have been accepted and acted upon.

[Lucky_Phill]

6 MBMP arti's.
High Speed Ring Netting in Hervey Bay. ( stopped )
Various boat ramp improvements in Qld
Kids Fishing Days
TED's... not a rec thing, but individuals made submissions with the idea and design
Beach netting on Fraser, Moreton and Straddie ( parts thereof , stopped )
Fishing Platform on the new Ted Smout Memorial Bridge
HMAS Brisbane... submission from rec fishos taken into account, but was designed as dive site only.
Rubbish bins ( fishing line ) and rod holders on the Urangan Pier
MBMP zonings
Great Sandy Straits zonings
in NSW, dedicated Rec Fishing Havens
Net buy backs


all started their life as an idea from an individual and made possible by a group getting behind them.

cheers

[finga]

6 MBMP arti's.
High Speed Ring Netting in Hervey Bay. ( stopped )
Various boat ramp improvements in Qld
Kids Fishing Days
TED's... not a rec thing, but individuals made submissions with the idea and design
Beach netting on Fraser, Moreton and Straddie ( parts thereof , stopped )
Fishing Platform on the new Ted Smout Memorial Bridge
HMAS Brisbane... submission from rec fishos taken into account, but was designed as dive site only.
Rubbish bins ( fishing line ) and rod holders on the Urangan Pier
MBMP zonings
Great Sandy Straits zonings
in NSW, dedicated Rec Fishing Havens
Net buy backs


all started their life as an idea from an individual and made possible by a group getting behind them.

cheers
Too bad the kids day's are no longer
Righto...your the ideas bloke. Done.
All we need is a group behind you.....well not literally bums to wall type of behind you.
How about a peak representative group?? Would that do?

[Lucky_Phill]

The Kids day will continue........

I had a group behind me and we achieved a great deal over the last 3 - 4 years.

We have some rep bodies now willing to take up the challenge, get behind them.

or, go fishing........ as I am this weekend.. :)


LP

[Mike Delisser]

Well Mike, he has.

Fact. MP Mark got the idea of a Rec Fishing Licence quashed,( not on the LNP table for discussion now ) even though the Minister was open to the idea. He did not go on about this as he was simply passing on the feelings of the rec fishing community here in Queensland. .... yes those feelings were vented here on AF.

At least with that issue, he had some control........ ex - Shadow Fisheries Minister and informed Rec Fisher.
Cheers
LOL... you need better contacts in the LNP Phill, did MP Gunna tell you that crap, ask your local member how it went down, and ask him/her about Gunna's current standing with Can Do and McVeigh and what caused it.



LNP Policy Commitments:


$120 million Marine Infrastructure Fund over four years
$50 million for small marine infrastructure such as boat ramps, artificial reefs and pontoons
$30 millon to improve access to Gold Coast Waterways
$40 millon to improve access to Cairns' Trinity Inlet
I am unsure how the funds are to be distributed and when, but this is STILL policy. I suspect it is not high on the priority list and will come into play when the first budget is handed down. The details should be laid out then.

cheers

Their 1st budget was handed down almost 3 months ago mate.

[Dezzer]

I think another month or two away from the ausfish trollfest will do me good.


Totally agree Timmi.

[Mike Delisser]

Too bad the kids day's are no longer
Righto...your the ideas bloke. Done.
All we need is a group behind you.....well not literally bums to wall type of behind you.
How about a peak representative group?? Would that do?

Finga, funding for the kids fishing clinics was canned in the LNP's last budget but after strong campaign Sunfish won back around half of the money they used to get for these events. They will be given enough money to run 18 instead of 33 kids fishing clinics this year. They are taking aplications from member orginisations to run these right now. At only a couple of grand a pop I recon it's a p#ssweak way to save money, kids in some areas will miss out altogether now.

From Sunfish

Notice to Sunfish Members 1st November 2012

This is a request to Sunfish Members to submit “expressions of interest” for their affiliates to conduct “Junior Fishing Days”.
The Government through Fisheries Queensland is now favourably considering funding 18 of these days throughout Queensland under similar conditions to those previously held in past years and called “Lifestyle Kids Fishing Days”.
These monies have been the result of an intense media campaign and it is important that they are not taken for granted - you can ensure this by acting professionally in the conduct of these events. Your affiliate bodies as Members of Sunfish Queensland will be given priority in the allocation of these days.

[PinHead]

$120 million Marine Infrastructure Fund over four years
$50 million for small marine infrastructure such as boat ramps, artificial reefs and pontoons..over what time span?
$30 millon to improve access to Gold Coast Waterways..ditto
$40 millon to improve access to Cairns' Trinity Inlet..ditto.

One thing that really annoys me is political parties making policies that are not encompassed in their current elected period.


The LNP have stated 4 years in their first policy item. What of they only spend 2 mill i nthe first three years then lose the next election..the policy is redundant and non sensical.


All parties do it and it is a joke. I believe they should only publish policies of this nature for what they intend to completei n their elected time frame.


I like the idea of more artis but wish they would get their fingers out and implement some of these policies now.


Why should private enterprise be enticed to fund these...these items are a Governments job..if they cannot do the job then step down.


Both the LNP and the ALP have proven they are incompetent at major PPP projects (the tunnel projects) so perhaps they should forget about these.

[Mark Robinson MP]

How do we make a submission?

I always thought concerned State members of Parliament knew what their constituents wanted (they know what their local constituents want as they went out and talked with their constituents) and the State member was the person who lobbied for the needed item ie boat ramp.
What do State members do?
What does your State member do?
What does your federal member do?

While the plan may be more developed than when I first put it forward, now the transport minister will receive proposals from local groups (consortium perhaps). Eg. A rec fishing club working with a council to present a proposal for a new arti, or ramp, or pontoon. A state mp can facilitate it happening. The $50 million comes from boat regos paid into the marine infrastructure fund. Eg. I looked at Burrum Heads at a new ramp working with local rec fishers and council - council would build carpark while govt the ramp. I would love to see that one come together.

[finga]

Goodo Mark.
Over what time period did the $50,000,00 tally take to accumulate?
I would assume 12 months as how many registered vessels in QLD? With a guestimate of average rego cost of about $200 then it would be logical to assume this $50,000,000 would be available for projects every year.

What projects happened last year with this $50,000,000 boat rego fund?
What 'projects' have been done since your mob has been in power with the money we have paid through boat rego fees?

[WalrusLike]

Thanks for being on here Mark. I hope you continue to keep in touch with us.

Have you noticed the Wello Point thread? Any additional support for improved management of the ramp parking would be appreciated.... it's a lousy situation there.

Any ramp proposals you see.... A floating pontoon down the CENTRE of any new ramps is a must. Don't let them sell you anything else. :)

I am very skeptical of pollies in general, but who knows.... you may prove to be an exception.... lets hope so. :)

[Feral]

Finga, funding for the kids fishing clinics was canned in the LNP's last budget but after strong campaign Sunfish won back around half of the money they used to get for these events. They will be given enough money to run 18 instead of 33 kids fishing clinics this year. They are taking aplications from member orginisations to run these right now. At only a couple of grand a pop I recon it's a p#ssweak way to save money, kids in some areas will miss out altogether now.

From Sunfish

Notice to Sunfish Members 1st November 2012

This is a request to Sunfish Members to submit “expressions of interest” for their affiliates to conduct “Junior Fishing Days”.
The Government through Fisheries Queensland is now favourably considering funding 18 of these days throughout Queensland under similar conditions to those previously held in past years and called “Lifestyle Kids Fishing Days”.
These monies have been the result of an intense media campaign and it is important that they are not taken for granted - you can ensure this by acting professionally in the conduct of these events. Your affiliate bodies as Members of Sunfish Queensland will be given priority in the allocation of these days.

Hasn't come through yet to any of the clubs I'm in that used to run these. Nor has sunfish dropped me a line as one of their qualified, and active, instructors.

[Lucky_Phill]

I am unsure if the $50 mill will come from boat regos. ?

237,000 private vessels registered in Qld with an average $200. is around $48mill. The vast majority goes into General Revenue, and the $18 RUF per vessel is for " recreational boating purposes", that amount is $4.2mill. This fee is set in concrete and is used for the betterment of recreational boating facilities / activities.

Unless, of course, the LNP has a new policy for all vessel fees to go into the Marine Infrastructure Plan, if that is the case, then we put $48mill per in... but the plan is over 4 years ?

This will need to be better explained.........

Why do politicial parties roll out some plans over more than 3 years, simple, it takes that long to get it going. I, for one would love to see a " vision " set in place that is rolled out over 5, 10, 20 & 30 plus years.

That is the trouble with modern politics, it has no VISION, or if some politicians do have this VISION, they get hamstrung by the party power brokers who are only looking to the next election.

Here's a VISION I have for Qlds rec fishing industry.


Queensland to have the best in the world Salt and Fresh Water Fishery for recreational and commercial anglers.

I want people to come here from all over the world and sample our mouthwatering fish and fishery. WE can roll out ( every year until Armageddon ) an artificial reef for rec anglers, mollusc fishery and spear / divers. We can turn out inland waterways into a world class fishery. Along with this, we can turn Australia into " The Food Bowl " of the world.

To do this we need a vision and politicians with balls to put it on the table, they need to dispatch the faceless power brokers to the naughty corner and set out a plan that may well take 30 years to roll out. Who cares, just do it.

Let's look at it this way......... how long does one contribute to Super Annuation to get the desired result ( that being enough to live on during retirement ) ?????

WE are kidding ourselves AND selling our pollies short, if we think we can get desired results overnight. Sure, we can put band-aids on things, build a boat ramp etc, but the Fishery is the essence of our passion and that alone has to be dealt with in an holistic approach that seriously encompasses every area of concern. Some of those areas are, Tourism, Health, Education, Environment, Fishery Management, Commercial Fishing, Species Management, Habitat protection and retification, Pollution Control, Aqua-Culture, Sea Farming, Border Protection, Import Regulations, Recreation Activities, Research and more..................

Yes it takes money, but more importantly, it takes balls, passion, desire, vision and planning.

Some think it is the job of the Government to install arti reefs, well everyone is entilted to an opinion, but here's the catch.

If we need the reefs and the Govt does not have the funding, how do we get them in the water ?

Several ways... increase boat regos by 200%, introduce a RFL $200/year, taxation subsidy on every Queenslander ( Like the Ambulance levy ), ............. Frig that....... I would rather go cap in hand to Private Corporations and put on the table a well doucmented proposal that will benefit them as well as the recreational fishos of Queensland. IT seems to me a lot of folks are blaming the Govt ( any Govt ) for shortfallings, instead at looking of alternatives.

Australia and indeed Queensland has a small population for the size of the country and this is where we get issues with funding. Our private corporations produce much more " turnover " in terms of financial profits etc and maybe this is where we should be looking to assist us and any other struggling recreational area for funding or support.

We just have to figure out how it will be advantagous to those corporations in respect to Carbon Offsets, Taxation benefits and Community Awareness ( PR ).

If one drives down a street and the road is blocked and you want to get to the other side, what do you do ? I don't wait and whinge, I find an alternative route. ;)

cheers LP

[upstart]

This debate has been mostly SE qld focused. I've mentioned it before on here that NQ could also do with more artificial reefs. Most of them up this way have been accidental. Think Yongala!! Imagine a couple of dozen of those around the Townsville area. There'd be no need to head the 40 odd miles each way to the reef for a feed.
It's a bit different the further north you go because the Great Barrier Reef is so much closer and the population also thins out so the pressure is reduced.
My two cents worth anyway.

[finga]

The $50 million comes from boat regos paid into the marine infrastructure fund. .


I am unsure if the $50 mill will come from boat regos.




WE are kidding ourselves AND selling our pollies short, if we think we can get desired results overnight. Sure, we can put band-aids on things, build a boat ramp etc, but the Fishery is the essence of our passion and that alone has to be dealt with in an holistic approach that seriously encompasses every area of concern. Some of those areas are, Tourism, Health, Education, Environment, Fishery Management, Commercial Fishing, Species Management, Habitat protection and retification, Pollution Control, Aqua-Culture, Sea Farming, Border Protection, Import Regulations, Recreation Activities, Research and more..................?LP

And the best way to that is by cutting funding to near (if not all) of those areas of concern?
Where's that list of stuff where there is no longer any funding?

[snapperdan]

this is why you guys need a fishing license. 30 bux a year and a hell of alot of cash to build arties etc. Also helps to get figures on folks who fish etc. The fishing license has been good for NSW. It could be a whole lot better but it has been good.

As for the concrete. If the govt could set aside a few square kilometers in say 40 meters of water of each major town up and down the coast and call it a dumping ground. You are allowed to dump steel and or concrete or rock only. Each load checked out buy govt inspector. Given the all clear you dump at your own cost. This is how they do it in the us i believe. The coordinates for the 4 corners of the dumping ground are made public so trawlers etc know not to fish there. As for publisicing the exact coordinates of the structures them selves this is up to the individual/ company/charity or govt that dumps them. Clears the red tape.

[PinHead]

this is why you guys need a fishing license. 30 bux a year and a hell of alot of cash to build arties etc. Also helps to get figures on folks who fish etc. The fishing license has been good for NSW. It could be a whole lot better but it has been good.

As for the concrete. If the govt could set aside a few square kilometers in say 40 meters of water of each major town up and down the coast and call it a dumping ground. You are allowed to dump steel and or concrete or rock only. Each load checked out buy govt inspector. Given the all clear you dump at your own cost. This is how they do it in the us i believe. The coordinates for the 4 corners of the dumping ground are made public so trawlers etc know not to fish there. As for publisicing the exact coordinates of the structures them selves this is up to the individual/ company/charity or govt that dumps them. Clears the red tape.

once again..no, no and no to a fishing license. People in NSW pay for the fisheries officers from the license fees..are you serious? That is just double taxation of the worst kind.

[PinHead]

I am unsure if the $50 mill will come from boat regos. ?

237,000 private vessels registered in Qld with an average $200. is around $48mill. The vast majority goes into General Revenue, and the $18 RUF per vessel is for " recreational boating purposes", that amount is $4.2mill. This fee is set in concrete and is used for the betterment of recreational boating facilities / activities.

Unless, of course, the LNP has a new policy for all vessel fees to go into the Marine Infrastructure Plan, if that is the case, then we put $48mill per in... but the plan is over 4 years ?

This will need to be better explained.........

Why do politicial parties roll out some plans over more than 3 years, simple, it takes that long to get it going. I, for one would love to see a " vision " set in place that is rolled out over 5, 10, 20 & 30 plus years.

That is the trouble with modern politics, it has no VISION, or if some politicians do have this VISION, they get hamstrung by the party power brokers who are only looking to the next election.

Here's a VISION I have for Qlds rec fishing industry.


Queensland to have the best in the world Salt and Fresh Water Fishery for recreational and commercial anglers.

I want people to come here from all over the world and sample our mouthwatering fish and fishery. WE can roll out ( every year until Armageddon ) an artificial reef for rec anglers, mollusc fishery and spear / divers. We can turn out inland waterways into a world class fishery. Along with this, we can turn Australia into " The Food Bowl " of the world.

To do this we need a vision and politicians with balls to put it on the table, they need to dispatch the faceless power brokers to the naughty corner and set out a plan that may well take 30 years to roll out. Who cares, just do it.

Let's look at it this way......... how long does one contribute to Super Annuation to get the desired result ( that being enough to live on during retirement ) ?????

WE are kidding ourselves AND selling our pollies short, if we think we can get desired results overnight. Sure, we can put band-aids on things, build a boat ramp etc, but the Fishery is the essence of our passion and that alone has to be dealt with in an holistic approach that seriously encompasses every area of concern. Some of those areas are, Tourism, Health, Education, Environment, Fishery Management, Commercial Fishing, Species Management, Habitat protection and retification, Pollution Control, Aqua-Culture, Sea Farming, Border Protection, Import Regulations, Recreation Activities, Research and more..................

Yes it takes money, but more importantly, it takes balls, passion, desire, vision and planning.

Some think it is the job of the Government to install arti reefs, well everyone is entilted to an opinion, but here's the catch.

If we need the reefs and the Govt does not have the funding, how do we get them in the water ?

Several ways... increase boat regos by 200%, introduce a RFL $200/year, taxation subsidy on every Queenslander ( Like the Ambulance levy ), ............. Frig that....... I would rather go cap in hand to Private Corporations and put on the table a well doucmented proposal that will benefit them as well as the recreational fishos of Queensland. IT seems to me a lot of folks are blaming the Govt ( any Govt ) for shortfallings, instead at looking of alternatives.

Australia and indeed Queensland has a small population for the size of the country and this is where we get issues with funding. Our private corporations produce much more " turnover " in terms of financial profits etc and maybe this is where we should be looking to assist us and any other struggling recreational area for funding or support.

We just have to figure out how it will be advantagous to those corporations in respect to Carbon Offsets, Taxation benefits and Community Awareness ( PR ).

If one drives down a street and the road is blocked and you want to get to the other side, what do you do ? I don't wait and whinge, I find an alternative route. ;)

cheers LP

a vision is a marvellous thing..a 30 year vision for a political party means they can talk all they want and do nothing as none ever last 30 years in power. I have no problem with visions as long as it stated something along the lines of:
we have a 20 year goal..to reach this goal we WILL do this in the first term.. then this in the 2nd term etc until the goal is reached. Anything less than making a solid commitment for the elected term is a cop out.

[snapperdan]

once again..no, no and no to a fishing license. People in NSW pay for the fisheries officers from the license fees..are you serious? That is just double taxation of the worst kind.

it may be "double taxation" of the worst kind but it helps with something many folks are extremely passionate about.

I see it as no different to having a drivers license, shooters license, boat license, pwc license.

Yes some of the funds are misused and given away to lightly when they could be saved for bigger and better things ie artis and more buy outs and more fisheries inspectors.

[Lucky_Phill]

snapperdan,

I am one who does not want an RFL for a number of reasons I have posted many times on this forum.

I do like your analogy to drivers licence, boat licence etc,, and to give my opinion on that idea..

As a driver of a motor vehicle, your are required to have a licence to drive a particular vehicle and should you wish to drive a different sort of vehicle you require another licence, and another one, yet another licence....... car, motor cycle ( couple of categories there ), MR, HR, Articulated, B-Double, triple etc etc man I don't know how many there is, but there are plenty and EACH ONE COSTS A FEE EVERY YEAR......

Can you see an RFL going this way ?

A salt water licence, a fresh water licence, a landbased licence, a trolling licence, Inshore licence, offshore licence and many more COULD be forced upon us, given the right circumstances.

As a recreational angler we are already forced to cough up high amounts of funds to participate, wherever we catch a fish or not.

Drivers licence, Radio Licence, Boat Licence, PWC Licence, Required Safety Equipment, RUF, rego, insurance, GST on fuel, bait, tackle and all other items....

My question is......... When is enough..enough !! ????????????? :-?

LP

[snapperdan]

snapperdan,

I am one who does not want an RFL for a number of reasons I have posted many times on this forum.

I do like your analogy to drivers licence, boat licence etc,, and to give my opinion on that idea..

As a driver of a motor vehicle, your are required to have a licence to drive a particular vehicle and should you wish to drive a different sort of vehicle you require another licence, and another one, yet another licence....... car, motor cycle ( couple of categories there ), MR, HR, Articulated, B-Double, triple etc etc man I don't know how many there is, but there are plenty and EACH ONE COSTS A FEE EVERY YEAR......

Can you see an RFL going this way ?

A salt water licence, a fresh water licence, a landbased licence, a trolling licence, Inshore licence, offshore licence and many more COULD be forced upon us, given the right circumstances.

As a recreational angler we are already forced to cough up high amounts of funds to participate, wherever we catch a fish or not.

Drivers licence, Radio Licence, Boat Licence, PWC Licence, Required Safety Equipment, RUF, rego, insurance, GST on fuel, bait, tackle and all other items....

My question is......... When is enough..enough !! ????????????? :-?

LP

With our govts there will never be enough. GST rise soon i thinks. Still way to much cash in the economy.

As for the different license classes. I dont see that happening (though i could see a mpa license). I know we all pay alot to go fishing. However the cost for a license is insignificant to what we pay for a day on the water. I have never been checked for my fishing license and have always held one. I am sure there are heaps of folks who just run the gauntlet each week end. Just think of what you could achieve with all that funding. QLD is blessed with some of the worlds best fishing. In my humble opinion a fishing license could help take it to the next level through pro buy outs and artificial reefs.

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks Dan, my other point I suppose is.

The pro's paid the Govt for their licence, hence the Govt has the money ( held the money and invested it ) so I see no reason a taxpayer / rec fisho should buy it back.

I think people get confused with the big issues facing recreational fishing. Sure, buying back an estuary licence or two may have an impact on that particular area, but it is much more than licences that need addressing. We could look at the recent event in NSW where a " Recreational Fishing Haven " was established with funds from the licence, then with the stroke of a pen, it is taken away.

If you want Rec Fishing Havens etc, they have to be Federally Legislated similar to " Native Title " where only the stakeholders of that property can make decisions on the management and any changes or other entities that want to enter that domain, pay for it.

" still too much cash in the economy " ????.... never too much..... !!

Let's also not forget that the majority of Fisheries prosecutions over the years have been of rogue pro's, hence even if the licence issue is resolved, the rogue population will flourish ( cash economy ), why........ no money to pay for policing. unless we up the RFL or RUF and make the rec anglers bend over and take another hit...... !!!


cheers

[WalrusLike]

The user pays idea in govt was the thin edge of the wedge... Gradually we ended up paying for everything many times over.

A rec fish lic is the bloody THICK end of the wedge. It stinks, and any pollies supporting it might as well get ready for leaving parliament because Queenslanders will kick them out if they try it.

[finga]

If one drives down a street and the road is blocked and you want to get to the other side, what do you do ? I don't wait and whinge, I find an alternative route. ;)
cheers LP
I'd get out and walk across to the other side of the road.
Where talking QLD and Australia....how wide is the widest road? 20m?

[Lucky_Phill]

Metaphors young man, Metaphors.... :)