Flags on props?

[Dezzer]

Have I missed a new rule or police crackdown? The three boats in front of me at the ramp last weekend all had the same orange flag on their props and then noticed a couple more on the way home.

Cheers

[Chimo]

Is that a rule?

When I tow the boat I've been flagging my props for years just to stop the drongos who tail-gate far too often from stuffing my SS beauties.

So is it a law / rule?

Cheers
Chimo

PS Same reason (ie drongos) for not dunking the brakes as I got sick of rebuilding them ie some drongo who's tailgating giving grief if he hits me.

[Fishbait]

Not sure if this link refers to boat trailers but any overhanging load greater than 1200mm requires a flag? But as said before, it's a good idea to keep idiots away from the stainless prop when they tailgate you! http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Loads%20and%20towing/Projecting%20loads/Pdf_projecting_loads_brochure.pdf

[2IC]

Dezzer have always had a flag on the prop after someone telling me about the 1200mm load length from back of trailer & looking at the gov web site .& as said before helps those ''DRONGOS'' see my nice prop

[wrxhoon]

You need flag and lights at night if its more 1.2 mtrs behind your trailer lights.

[Feral]

Yeah its a grey area with boat trailers, as often the trailer physically stops before the boat, so what is considered the end? Then there are trailers with lights on the guards not the back, and certainl if you have a tilted motor on a big boat, your more than likely to require one.

My rule of thumb is if it sticks out more than 1.2m behind the lights, its a good idea to have it regardless. Someone half asleep at night might just find your prop on his bonnet when he pull sup at a set of traffic lights, because he thinks he is still 2m behind you, because all he saw were the tail lights which still look a long way away!

[WalrusLike]

I bought a thick canvas orange 'bag' with draw cord that goes over my prop. I bought it to comply with the grey law but it turns out that I really like it.

It only takes a moment to put on and off,
it keeps drongos further back,
it protects kids and little old ladies walking near the boat,
It softens the whack when I do something stupid with my noggin,
it keeps the coppers happy,

And best of all it is now the bag that I put all three load straps into.... convenient and stops the risk of forgetting one.

[ShaneC]

Well, just to throw a spanner in the works..... I was told when pulled up by main roads that its not actually 1.2m behind the lights. I was told its 1.2m from the main structure of the trailer, so if you have pods its pretty much a given that'll be more than 1200mm to your prop/s. I have a light board that sits across the back of my motors so from the lights it is well within 1200. But I had given them a reason to pull me up so they were being picky. Dont know if they were right or wrong, as I have rung them about some more technical aspects of building large trailers and have been dazzled by just how much they dont know.... I just stick em on now

[finga]

Yeah its a grey area with boat trailers, as often the trailer physically stops before the boat, so what is considered the end? Then there are trailers with lights on the guards not the back, and certainl if you have a tilted motor on a big boat, your more than likely to require one.

My rule of thumb is if it sticks out more than 1.2m behind the lights
No grey areas....1.2m from the physical end of the trailer as it was measured for registration but 1.2m from lights would give you a safety factor.
A flag in the day (I just use a flag from Bunnings) and a light is required at night. A blinking red tail light off a bicycle is good for that purpose.
Lights is another area not many people think about. Visible through 45 degrees each way from centre is the rule. How many would have an engine in the way?
Many light boards may not be legal either. Maximum of 1.5m from the ground to the top of the light.

[wayno60]

Just when i was happy to live in the gray you have to go and spoil it. it'll take me longer to get the boat ready for a fish than time fishing.

[Fed]

I'm sure I'm illegal, got the wobbly roller rigger things overhanging the trailer frame plus the boat overhanging the riggers plus the motor, all up has to be a good 2 metres out from the frame.

[cormorant]

No grey areas....1.2m from the physical end of the trailer as it was measured for registration but 1.2m from lights would give you a safety factor.
A flag in the day (I just use a flag from Bunnings) and a light is required at night. A blinking red tail light off a bicycle is good for that purpose.
Lights is another area not many people think about. Visible through 45 degrees each way from centre is the rule. How many would have an engine in the way?
Many light boards may not be legal either. Maximum of 1.5m from the ground to the top of the light.



Ahhhh

My understanding is from end of chassis.

If lights are on chassis they still have to meet angle of view regs
Lights on chassis sill have to meet rules on where placed on trailer
Flag has to meet specs
A prop bag isn't a flag.
We hang a 2nd set of lights on a light bar off the motors ( tilted down ) cav plates to get them at a legal height on the cat with flag attached.


Yes I've had the pleasure of the RTA guys in NSW explain it to me when flagged in between 2 trucks for weighing- I complied by luck and a soft quasi inspection. There still may be some quirks between states until we get national road rules - as if that will ever happen.


Do not add flashing lights to any vehicle . As common sense as it seems and every bike uses them they are not for powered vehicles. A red flashing light is specicifically reserved for ambulance from memory. Only orange is allowed in wide load etc It is a seperate offence in a different catagory with a bloody huge fine.

[Mike Delisser]

I've gone overkill in the light department and my motor overhang is less than 1m so my rig easily meets all the requirements. However it didn't stop some clown from rear ending me on the h/way. Perhaps he didn't like Mercurys. Ended up with the leg and prop replaced under his insurance. Now I use a old safety vest wrapped around my prop, only takes a second to pop on and off too.
Cheers

[Johnm]

Bad advice to fit a flashing red light to a motor. It is llegal to fit flashng red lights to a vehicle without the written approval of the Qld Commissioner of Police. It is illegal also on a bike but not enforced.

[finga]

Well there ya go. Flashing lights are not the go.
Thanks for the clarification fella's. I suppose I'm lucky I haven't been fined for it. :)

Now....where to get a simple battery powered bung on red light??

[WalrusLike]

It's a bit pathetic.... What is?...

Well either my Internet searching sucks or the boat trailer regulations are obscurely hidden.

I thought I might as well look up the actual rules.... can't find any specific to boat trailer info.

Am I just a crap searcher?

[PADDLES]

hey scotty, pushbike shop or k-market pushy section will buy you a nice led tail light for not much dosh

[TREVELLY]

Having read this i went and bought this:-

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Outboard-Motor-Propeller-Safety-Cover-38cm-/321000336274?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4abd1c6b92

Maybe it doesn't comply as a flag but it would be a real loony to debate that and as John said it is handy to put tiedown ratchet straps into.

Not sure my prop is 1200 away from trailer anyway but this seemed like a good idea.

[WalrusLike]

John?? Maybe some of the girls that visit me call me that but no one else does....

:)

[TREVELLY]

John?? Maybe some of the girls that visit me call me that but no one else does....

:)

I should have looked back - sorry Tony - for some reason I thought it was johncars post - oops :blush:

Well netmaker calls me Bill :) not sure where that comes from:-
thanks bill. best wishes to you and young fella

[WalrusLike]

All good... no worries Bill.

Yeah my bag is like yours. And keeps all road travel trailer stuff together.

Silly that we can't find a site to check boat trailer regs eh.

[Micadogs]

I did excatly the same as Trev, and purchased the same item yesterday also.

[ozynorts]

This is the link for the "rules".
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Safety/Vehicle%20standards%20and%20modifications/Loads%20and%20towing/Projecting%20loads/Pdf_projecting_loads_brochure.pdf
It still doesn't say anything about motor's on the back of boats!!!
The info is about half way through the document under Safety requirements. It has a picture of a truck and trailer and if the load extends more than 1.2m beyond the back of the trailer it needs to be flagged. At night it is supposed to have a light or reflectors on it.!!
My boat, like most extends past the end of the trailer and according to the rules above it is an projecting load. I am going to have to get the tape measure out and see how far it extends past the trailer.

[WalrusLike]

Yeah I had seen that set of rules but foolishly thought there would've been separate rules for boat trailers.

Personally I don't think they are analogous to a piece of steel projecting horizontally from a flat bed truck.

In that case you might assume the truck rear is the rearmost point and so even in daylight mistakenly collect a near invisible projection.

In the case of a boat, irrespective of its trailer orientation you know the boat is the thing to avoid hitting.... you don't base your braking estimates on trailer position.

Two complications are the outboard and nighttime. I reckon my bag with a reflector solves that issue.

In any case rules, stupid or not, need to be followed to avoid a fine.

[ozynorts]

The bag with the reflector will probably do unless you strike a pedantic inspector. As per the rules the flag needs to be 45 x 45cm and those ones that were on ebay were only 38 x 38cm I believe. I have emailed Qld Tpt to get an answer about boat trailers but am not holding my breath.
Ozy

[TREVELLY]

Well I ordered it Thursday lunchtime and it arrived Friday lunchtime all the way from Scarborough :)

85520

Appears with my boat trailer finishing right up near the end of the boat that the prop is still borderline 1200mm beyond end of trailer and end of motor leg is a bit further.

85519

Anyway I think it looks good even if it doesn't strictly qualify as a flag.

And yes I will use this bag to store my tie-down ratchets as Tony-John mentioned earlier ;D

[WalrusLike]

The one down side to the bag is if you don't lower the leg after retrieve at ramp the water in the leg is in the bag by the time you get home.

Just needs a leg lower while putting tie downs on so that when raised ready to tow there is no great amount of salt water waiting to slosh out into your bag.

Just measured mine... 48 x 65 cm.

Now that I also got around to making a stupid Life Jacket tag that I can zip clip to the safety bag zipper I will be fully compliant. The life jacket thing is just a nonsense rule in my case, but the prop bag is a sensible thing that does improve everyone's safety. (Including the knucklehead who keeps on standing up after bending low under the hull and knocking his scone on the motor) :)

85521

[Fed]

How gay is that!
You could hang it on your wrist and go shopping with it Trev or wear it as a hat.

[TREVELLY]

How gay is that!
You could hang it on your wrist and go shopping with it Trev or wear it as a hat.

Jealousy jealousy :gorgeous:

[WalrusLike]

So imagine your in a small half cabin boat and you suddenly need the life jackets.

Desperately you look around and see the bright orange bag in the following picture. Aren't you glad it's got a label... otherwise you'd never find them.

85527

While we are posting pictures.... Is it just me or does everyone else knock bark off even doing trivial things like climbing in and taking a picture? My boat demands a blood sacrifice for every boarding.

85528

If truth be told though its not just the boat.... everything I own demands some blood if I am going to use it.

[Boat Hog]

Gee Walrus, what sort of boat have you got .... a Savage Vampire?

[TREVELLY]

Clumsy perhaps ::)

Says he who just put on a band-aid from the fishtank filter ;D

Come on Tony lets go shopping - gotya manbag ?!

[Boat Hog]

Just washed my hands after doing a prop change .... got a nice razor sharp cut on my palm - so sharp I didn't even feel it happen!

[WalrusLike]

I got a pink boating man bag. But only use it with the boat.

Shopping?.... mmm.... I must admit the Cleveland BCF is tempting me out...

Don't expect anything brilliant there... but I do like a wander in any place with lotsa boaty bits.

Bandaid Trev? Sook.... :)

Real men wear their scaby wounds with pride. Lucky I am never short of one.... :)

Is there any way we could organise all the new boat deliveries to be only once every 2 months? Coupla new ones around really buggered this weekends weather. :)

[ozynorts]

Ok so I received a response from Tpt Qld.
"Thank you for you email enquiry to the Department of Transport and Main Roads (the department) regards projecting loads.
To calculate the rear overhang, use the following calculation. Rear overhang must not exceed the lesser of 3.7 metres or the front load space, which ever is the lesser. The boat will be classed as a load.
To assist you in understanding these requirements, I have attached a copy of the Projecting Loads Brochure produced by the department."

I have attached the brochure also. A boat/load cannot project more than 3.7m over the rear of a trailer.
A boat is a load and if it projects more than 1.2m past the end of the trailer it needs a flag.
Cheers
Ozy

[Chimo]

Distance load can project at rear 'PR' No more than 1.2 m without a flag

Warning devices
Some projecting loads require warning devices. (See 'Safety
Requirements' for details.) Warning devices must meet the
following requirements.
During the day
You must display a brightly coloured red, red and yellow,
or yellow flag at least 450mm by 450 mm is fixed to the
extreme back of the load. (You guys must have big props, dont think the prop bag is going to comply!)
At night
You must display a red warning light that is visible from at
least 200 m away, OR at least two red reflectors capable of
reflecting from the headlights of a following vehicle.
At all times
All warning devices must be:
· displayed at the very end of your load; and
· clearly visible to other people

C
C

[WalrusLike]

Gotta comply with the rules to avoid a fine.... but....

Do we all agree its a bit silly given the prop is part of a bloody big boat rather than some piece of 2x4 or sheet steel laying horizontally on the tray?

I mean it makes sense to highlight a projection that could be overlooked, but a prop is not invisible.... it is part of a big lump of boat. If you are going to hit that you are either blind or waaay too close.

End of moan about regs.

Having said that, a bag is a good idea I think because it covers the sharp edged prop.

[Fishbait]

Try this flag at rsea - they are at Kedron. cost is $1.95.
Description: Oversize PVC with Elastic Tie On Flag

https://www.rsea.com.au/products/265288

[Dignity]

Fishbait, those work ok but after a while they curl up from the sun. I just use a couple of those reflective vests but I must do somethng about the lights. Talking about lights when do you need to have indicator lights on the top of trailer mudguards.

[cormorant]

Fishbait, those work ok but after a while they curl up from the sun. I just use a couple of those reflective vests but I must do somethng about the lights. Talking about lights when do you need to have indicator lights on the top of trailer mudguards.



No never

depending on length of trailer you may need running lights. Amber forward and red back facing.

Look up VSB 1 for trailer builders specs and it sets out the reflectors and lights you need

[Boat Hog]

A Flag on the back might seem a bit silly, but when it is the law it is cheap insurance to be legally compliant. I normally use a hi vis vest from work (sorry boss). It is larger than the size required and waves about just like a flag. Speaking of insurance, in an accident you don't want to leave any reason for an insurance company to be able to deny your claim. Dot the I's, cross the T's and stick a Flag on your rear projection!

It's piss easy compared to what you have to do to tow a boat that's overwidth (even by 45 mm each side).

[Malcolm W]

Just measured mine, able to trim it back to 1.19m and have plenty of ground clearance. Hang a high vis rag on most tips though anyway.
If somebody rams the prop and leg I'm sure the distance will be FAR less than 1.2 m after impact.