Advice needed for Outboards

[cuzzamundi]

G'day,

Helped a mate buy a boat recently, and made the fatal error of not getting the engine checked by a proper mechanic. After half a dozen small outings, got her in for a service, and told she's pretty much cactus (compression down to low eighties).

Looking for a second hand 2 stroke 150hp outboard.

Just wondering where the hell does one look? All seems like a bloody mess on the net, and couldn't find many on boatsales etc.

Also, any advice on how to recoup a little bit of money from the 150 I;m replacing? She still goes, but will need a rebuild pretty soon as compression is in low eighties on all cylinders. Can you sell them as a whole, or does it have to be parts only? Obviously i'll still take a huge loss, as I don't want to flog it off to some poor bugger and have him go through the same thing, but if I tell them what the deal is exactly, I might be able to get at least a grand or two for them to take off parts.rebuild and sell. We're pretty bloody broke, so every dollar recovered counts.

Thanks, and appreciate any help.

Cuzza

[Gon Fishun]

If the internals of the motor are not badly scored etc, or nill damage, would reringing the motor be an option and you might get a year or 2 out of it while saving and looking for another motor?

[Noelm]

make sure of the compression numbers, it will probably go for another 20 years, even if the compression is a bit low.

[cuzzamundi]

G'day Gone Fishun,

WHat does reringing mean? Sorry mate, not really good with boat mechanics. Mechanic said that gearbox may need some work, maybe, but all else is in order.

Noelm,
Yeah mate I asked if it would matter THAT much, but he reckoned that there's no way he'd have her out on any offshore waters etc, as the power will just keep waning, and it could be hard to get on the plane. This bloke is really well reputed, and I know piss all, so I'm going to have to take his word.

Thanks. Any other info?

Cuzza

[Swanie1975]

When my old two stroke blew up it was sold to a wholesale here on the coast for $1000 bucks minus the prop. Mine was well and truly shot needing a new block etc so I didn't bother.
eBay has some good stuff pop up if you're in no hurry just wait and watch but you could keep using it in the meantime until it really goes bang lol.

Cheers Ryan

[Gon Fishun]

Reringing means fitting new piston rings and or pistons, bearings and gaskets. Sort of a minor motor rebuild.

[Fed]

Buy a new compression tester & test it yourself.
From the book. (My book) OMC

Warm up the motor to normal operating temp.
Remove all the plugs
Test it with the throttle wide open.
Variation between cylinders should not exceed 15 PSI.

[cormorant]

Happy to read someone has ethics and won't lie to on sell to another punter. Karma to you.

What motor is it? Year and brand. reasonably well maintained to look at witha service history?
What hours?

There are powerheads avaliable out of the states if the rest is ok or as others have stated a possible candidate for a local rebuild.
I would have the reputable mechanic stick a borescope down the plugholes to see if it is a candidate.

Consistant low compression could also be gummed up rings from the previous owner using crap oil. Soaking with engine tuner may bring compression up a bit if that is the issue.

As a final note it is worth more as either parts if you spend the time and wreck it yourself or as a well maintained rebuild candidate to someone who wants to do it and has the skills than it is seized or a non runner.

Lastly your mate needs to decide ( regardless of the wifes neverending nagging - I told ya so - money pit etc) if the boat package is really a keeper and worth repowering before money is pissed up against the wall.

Here is a site for ideas on powerhead pricing from USA so you need to add shipping and any core charges. They also supply rebuild kits.

http://www.crowleymarine.com/powerheads.cfm

Put a wanted add here on Ausfish as you may find someone is doing a upgrade , change to a 4 stroke and would be more than happy to sell a good motor rather than cop a poor trade in value from a dealer and give a range of suitable HP for teh boat.

Ebay etc come with huge warnings especially for the non mechanical.

[cuzzamundi]

Thanks for the advice, fellas.

Ryan - yeah mate, thought about just using her 'til doomsday. Problem is I don't want to be miles out when the shit hits the fan. Good to know I could get a bit back on her, though.

Gone Fishun - Cheers, mate. How much normally for that?

Fed - Yeah mate, I think a compression tester will be a good investment. Like I said, know f all mechanically, but willing to learn. The mechanic was adamant that she was gonna be cactus soon enough, though.

Cormorant - Thanks for all that info. Yeah mate, I couldn't live with selling a dud. Imagine if they went offshore and she died, then the wind started cranking!! Not te mention the cost for them. The motor's a '95 model 150hp Johnson. 560 hours. Serviced by previous owner every forty hours - he did them himself. Seems like a really honest bloke, so I don't think he knew about the problems. Maybe just wasn't that great at servicing them. With the powerhead, I will have a look. The mechanic, though, seemed to think that the best option was to get another motor, as a rebuild would cost similar amounts he reckoned. He said I could probably get a decent 150 for around six grand at the moment. Will have to have a look. I will put a wanted ad up here I think. Just have to sort through finances with mate, and work out what we're doing with the donk.

Thanks again, fellas - bloody hell it hurts when you know you could have avoided it. Life's lessons are often dealt with a stiff jab.

Cuzza

[cormorant]

Very common motor and sad to see it killed at 500 hours. Run lean and scored bores probably or run ethanol fuels and lean again. Same block was run on 150hp and 175hp from 91 to 2006 .
You never know the full rebuild cost until you have it fully stripped down and you mechanic may / may not be giving you the hint he doesn't like the noises it is making or like most doesn't want it clogging up his workshop when he can make better money on servicing.

Rebuild kits are about $1000 , machining and labour are the other costs as long as it all comes apart Ok and there is not too much corrosion.

Depending on who did the rebuild and what they rebuilt here is one . They may wish to just sell the powerhead for less than half that price as there is not a real huge market for he jets in Australia.

You really need a decent mechanic to check anything you are interested in.

Just food for thought but resolve the diagnosis on your existing before wasting time and $.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Evinrude-150hp-Outboard-Jet-Not-FICHT-/200831430790?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec27c7086

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Johnson-175hp-Fastrike-Outboard-Motor-/330807353790?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d05a7a1be

[cuzzamundi]

Thanks again, cormorant. Those two engines look good. I have no idea what the mechanic really thought, just that he said that we'd be better off finding another motor, as a rebuild would be around eight grand. Very frustrating, and I don;t have the cash to get him out again. Might give him a buzz and clarify. Thanks for the info, mate, I really appreciate it.

Cuzza

[cormorant]

The only reason I looked was if you bought a motor in the same series again you have a lot of spare parts from your existing should you have any failures.
Correctly tuned and servced they are a good old motor but heavy on fuel.
Not sure what your existing mechanic serviced on the motor but I hope he had a quick loo for the cause for it to be failing. carbies adjusted too leans, fuel starvation, oil problem etc etc.
Don't rush into a decision as you can always travel out in tandem with another mates boat so you never get stranded until something comes up. Robinson marine up in QLD were importing the non genuine rebuild kits and may have also been doing powerheads as well.

[cuzzamundi]

That's a good point, mate, didn't realise they were of the same mould. I think we're going to need all the money we can get, though, so we'll have to sell this girl to be wrecked/rebuilt/parts. I'm going to call the mechanic tomorrow and see what he says about causes etc. Yeah I didn't think of going tandem. Most mates don't go out wide, though. But yeah, definitely something to remember in the meantime. Cheers, mate.

Cuzza

[WalrusLike]

Cuzza don't forget bloody-helpful-and-fulla-knowledge-Cornorants' tip about soaking with engine tuner.

Who knows... you might get lucky.

Years ago the TAFEs used to borrow private engines so the students learn the rebuild and the owner just pays parts. In this legalistic over regulated world of today, that's probably a thing of the past though. Still might be worth checking.

I know nothing much mechanically but I do have some advice... take you time about deciding. Stick close inshore, join VMR, go with mates.

The longer you look the more cheaper options you will have. Good luck with it.

[Apollo]

Walrust, my wife works at the local tafe and they are always looking for cars to service/repair at a 'parts' cost only under a similar arrnageemnt to what you suggested. The work is performed under the supervision of the instructor., so maybe it tis still an option for marine outboards as well.

Steve


Cuzza don't forget bloody-helpful-and-fulla-knowledge-Cornorants' tip about soaking with engine tuner.

Who knows... you might get lucky.

Years ago the TAFEs used to borrow private engines so the students learn the rebuild and the owner just pays parts. In this legalistic over regulated world of today, that's probably a thing of the past though. Still might be worth checking.

I know nothing much mechanically but I do have some advice... take you time about deciding. Stick close inshore, join VMR, go with mates.

The longer you look the more cheaper options you will have. Good luck with it.

[cuzzamundi]

Thanks Walruslike and Apollo. Just got onto the tafe on the goldie, and they are going to call me on monday and let me know whether they still do that. Sounds like a viable option if so, as I'm sure they'd still do a good job. Thanks for the great advice.

Cuzza

[copie]

Cuzza just a few questions did you take it in for a service because it now appears to have lost power since you purchased it, or did you just think it time to have it done. Reason I ask is about 8-9 years ago I had a 200hp 2 stroke and the compression was down a little I was told although the boat performed well. I saw the boat about 6 months ago in the bay and went up and asked how it was going and the same owner said it was just fine. sometimes as was mentioned above they just keep going.

Mark.

[cuzzamundi]

G'day Mark,

Nah mate, was going well, just thought we should get her a major service. That's the part I;m a little stumped with - she goes well! I'm more than willing to keep her ticking over, but I'm just worried about her going bang far from shore. In my gut it feels wrong to dismiss her as she is going well, but like I said, I know stuff all about motors, so I figured listening to the expert was the way to go. Dunno what to do. I called previous owner and he was shocked as all hell. Reckoned she was in great nick.

Cuzza

[Gon Fishun]

G'day Mark,

Nah mate, was going well, just thought we should get her a major service. That's the part I;m a little stumped with - she goes well! I'm more than willing to keep her ticking over, but I'm just worried about her going bang far from shore. In my gut it feels wrong to dismiss her as she is going well, but like I said, I know stuff all about motors, so I figured listening to the expert was the way to go. Dunno what to do. I called previous owner and he was shocked as all hell. Reckoned she was in great nick.

Cuzza

By the sounds of that you need to get a second opinion and a 3rd if need be, and as Fed said, another compression check is a must before you do anything.

[Fed]

If you're not confident doing stuff yourself you should take it to Spaniard King, he has a very good reputation in here and I'm sure he would give you an honest opinion laying out your options.
6 cylinders all between 80-85 PSI on an unknown tester wouldn't worry me.

[rowanda]

i've had 11 boats and compression test them all when buying....overall number doesn't worry me if they are all very close (i normally look for within 5psi and the engines runs fine) Really low would worry me but not at 80-85....I remember I had a 140hp johnson 2 stroke 1984 and it was low compression (measured around the 85 mark)...had it for 3 years not an issue, then sold it to my boss!!
He had it for another 5 years and used it every weekend...not an issue and sold it on.....as others have said I'd definately be getting a 2nd opinion, shouldn't cost much for just a compression test and opinion

[cuzzamundi]

Thanks, fellas! After talking at length with my mate tonight, we're definitely going to get another opinion. All these stories here are starting to give me some hope, 'cos like I said, she runs really well and seems to have plenty of power. I'll keep you updated with the results. Here's hoping. From memory, all pistons were between 86 amd 82. We were thinking of approaching an actual workshop, as we want it checked out asap. Anyone recommend a workshop, or you think another mobile mechanic would be better?
Thanks again.

Cuzza

[cormorant]

I think Fed above gave you good advice. Garry is a ex Johnson mechanic and knows that motor backwards ( but now gone to the honda darkside) so tow it to him or have him drop in if you are close. Compression test is not rocket science and quick . A quick run on the water if near a ramp will quickly tell if it is going Ok and reaching max revs Ok.

Sounds a bit more hopeful with the seller still talking to you if he is genuine etc etc . Genuine blokes talk and scum tell you to go away unless he is a very smooth operator. He may be a backyard mechanic and not have known or done compression tests himself. Owners are often the last person to realise the perforrmance is dropping off as it happens slowly and with intermittant use goes un- unoticed. Low compression usually has symptoms like low power and hard starting .

[cuzzamundi]

Yeah Cormorant, he is fortunately a genuine bloke, and is waiting to hear how I go with the second opinion. He's really shocked about it all, and I know he isn't bullsh&tting. She seems to have had no trouble with power at all underway. Starting has been a little slow at times - four or five turns of the key, but she fires up ok and does really well underway, and idles fine without spluttering. No trouble with power to plane etc. Will be getting the second opinion for sure. Would definitely be keen to use Garry, but I'm north of Brissy, and may be a bit far to get him. Thanks again, mate.

Cuzza

[Shawn 66]

Cuzza ,
Don't know where you are , however , if Garry does not come this far north , give Brisbane Yamaha a ring . I do not want to post their phone number , as I do not want to be seen as advertising on their behalf .
Shawn

[cuzzamundi]

No worries, Shawn. Just looking through places to try now, so will add them to the list. Cheers for that.

Cuzza