Fuel line fittings..tap/valve in 8mm

[deckie]

Howdy...i have a couple of above deck s/s cruisetanks i'd like to join up and connect to a single line going thru a racor fuel/water separator...and give me the option of which tank to use and/or both.

Fuel lines are 8mm (5/16ths) but i can only find just one 8mm fuel valve off the shelf that could do the trick..a 3 way brass tap at Whitworths, its close but that still wont let me feed the motor from both tanks at once as far as i can tell...just one at a time.

I can get inline taps for each tank but seem to be for 10mm lines which isnt much use to me.

I'd like to be able to choose one or the other tank, or both at once...is this unrealistic ?...or where could i get simple inline taps for 8mm hose ?

I'd also need some sort of T or Y type join fitting to bring them to a single line into the filter.

Tx for any advice.
Steve.

[tunaticer]

Yrs ago i had a fuel pump with selective inlet ports, 1 running to each tank. I haven't seen them on the market since but then again I have not looked for them either. From memory I think i got it from TJM 4x4 shop at Geebung. gotta be 20 yrs ago now tho.

[deckie]

tx jack...will ring them tomorrow, cant see anything on their website but they might know who/where. Thanx. Makes me think i should try motorbike joints as well.

Hope i explained it alright. I just assumed there would be taps for 8mm fuel lines to outboards but cant seem to find anything except 10mm, and the one i spotted at Whitworths.


Edit: these are the sort of taps i was looking for, means i can run either or both tanks...found only the 10mm at Whitworths and they said were only made in 10mm, now i just check their website and this one is listed as 1/4 inch which is 6mm isnt it ?? ::)
Nothing at bla
Now i'm all confused. Might need to ring them up.

[tunaticer]

The 1/4" tap is 1/4 BSP thread, the standard fuel line thread that handles up to 10mm fuel line depending on the fitting you screw into it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=3+way+fuel+valve
http://www.biotuning.co.uk/PartsValves.htm
http://www.jpwmarine.com.au/products/plumbing-toilets/ball-valves-y-valves/valve-fuel-3-way-1-4-npt.aspx

[sharkcat one]

deckie,-- I personally wouldn't run both tanks at once, If you have one hose longer than the other to the filter , one tank might empty out faster than the other and you will start to suck air. You shouldn't need to run both tanks into a "T" or "Y" connection , have a look on the filter inlets there should be 2 inlets and 2 outlets. just run each tank through a valve that you showed above and into the separate inlets of the filter, then you can turn one on and one off . You can pick up all the fittings from any industrial flexi hose supplier.

Cheers.

[Dicktracey]

Go to a honda Moto dealer ask for a CRF 450 fuel tap with the three spouts.
Standard they will have off, main and reserve, you can pull internals apart and turn valve plate around to give you tank 1, tank 2 & both.
I have used these for years they are rated for fuel and have 8mm hose barbs.
Cheers
Dick
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CRF-450-2005-Reserve-Fuel-Petrol-Tap-OEM-16950-KSC-003-17874-3D-/180963348082?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a22418e72

[deckie]

dble post deleted.

[deckie]

The 1/4" tap is 1/4 BSP thread, the standard fuel line thread that handles up to 10mm fuel line depending on the fitting you screw into it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=3+way+fuel+valve
http://www.biotuning.co.uk/PartsValves.htm
http://www.jpwmarine.com.au/products/plumbing-toilets/ball-valves-y-valves/valve-fuel-3-way-1-4-npt.aspx

Ahhh ok...so the 1/4" tap handles say 6mm-10mm lines depending on those tail fittings.
I played around with these taps at the store and couldnt get a tail meant for 8mm to screw into it. Maybe they just ran out i dont know but didnt think to ask and moved on.
The 3 way brass one (like in your ebay website there) is what i assumed is probably the standard thing guys use, and they had fittings that screwed straight in peachy for 8mm fuel lines. The reason i was thinking about 2 individual taps though is the advantage of being able to take fuel from both tanks at same time....but the more i think of it the less i;d probably need it. Was a time i used to think it;d be nice to be able to feed from both, and went chasing that up today coz i have new tanks and lines, but rapidly got out of my depth coz fuel obviously aint my thing.

Will go back and ask for tails to 8mm fuel line and try that 1/4" tap again. You;ve been a brilliant help thanx matey.

I then realised i'd need to join both lines up into a single to feed into the fuel/water separator, so i think i need some sort of brass T or Y connector. Might be simplest to just put one of those 3 way taps in between them coz solves it that issue as well.


That biotuning article u put up is interesting in how it says the concern is always getting air in the lines due to a 3 way tap. Nothing can be easy can it geeeezus...not sure if there's a proper way to disconnect to leave the fuel system in storage if tap is installed, or somehow bleed lines before start up. Starting to sound like too hard basket :-[

Great advice, tx for the feedback Jack. I'm a lot less lost than earlier in the day and now have a clue ;D

[Dicktracey]

Deckie you can also get a 90 deg elbow should be 1/4 " male thread on each end and mount taps straight onto fuel tanks to give the valves support.
Then just use 2 x 1/4 to 5/16 hose barb and a standard T piece to join tanks.
Dick

[deckie]

deckie,-- I personally wouldn't run both tanks at once, If you have one hose longer than the other to the filter , one tank might empty out faster than the other and you will start to suck air. You shouldn't need to run both tanks into a "T" or "Y" connection , have a look on the filter inlets there should be 2 inlets and 2 outlets. just run each tank through a valve that you showed above and into the separate inlets of the filter, then you can turn one on and one off . You can pick up all the fittings from any industrial flexi hose supplier.

Cheers.
thanx sharkcat...sounds like solid advice re the air. Very much helping to make my mind up to leave the idea well alone and just stick two new taps, one on each line...or one of the 3 way brass valves.
The filter is brand new glass bowl type 10 micron racor but in a spot very hard to access the top where the lines go in...i assumed there was only one inlet but never really looked hard at it, so will get right under and have a good look now. The two inlets would definitely fix that connection issue as u say.
Will look at those flexi hose suppliers tomorrow too.
Tx very very much bud. The air issue is starting to sound v important...and i;m completely out of my depth with fuel so tx again.

[deckie]

Go to a honda Moto dealer ask for a CRF 450 fuel tap with the three spouts.
Standard they will have off, main and reserve, you can pull internals apart and turn valve plate around to give you tank 1, tank 2 & both.
I have used these for years they are rated for fuel and have 8mm hose barbs.
Cheers
Dick
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CRF-450-2005-Reserve-Fuel-Petrol-Tap-OEM-16950-KSC-003-17874-3D-/180963348082?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a22418e72


Deckie you can also get a 90 deg elbow should be 1/4 " male thread on each end and mount taps straight onto fuel tanks to give the valves support.
Then just use 2 x 1/4 to 5/16 hose barb and a standard T piece to join tanks.
Dick
Cheers DT, sounds like i;ve got a lot of searching and learning this week. If i can easy pull that valve apart and switch them around that sounds like a great solution. Is this what you've run before ? and used to draw on two tanks at same time ? Did u ever cop any air in the line issues associated with this type of setup ? Sorry to badger u with more Q's. Was thinking of mounting the taps fairly central fixed to superstructure so i can easy reach under and turn. Those elbow fittings sound damn handy, will look for them too.
Thanx again

[deckie]

psst DT, whilst i;ve got you..would you just epoxy those single line metal valves to the s/s tank ?

Also...and this is possibly a stupid Q but i need to ask...do you need to use something like stag paste to join the tail fittings to these valves ? i.e. like used when putting outlet fittings into a s/s tank ? The screw threads look long and tight on the tails but unsure if need to use stag on these also.

tx again

[Dicktracey]

As previously mentioned if you run any tank dry you will draw air in.
Couple of things to think about if the tanks are removable you could mount Valves straight to tanks via 1/4" 90 deg elbows and then fit quick disconnect tails to other end of valves. Female end then on hose. If tanks stay onboard just hard pipe it with holes tails straight out of valves.
So long as your primer bulb is between Tpiece and filter worst case you may have to reprime system if you run dry.

I use the 3 way valve on desert racing bikes with front and rear tanks but would work fine in a marine application.
Dick

[deckie]

Tx bud, very much appreciate the time u spent explaining.
Getting a bit of a handle on this now.
Cheers
Steve

[Dicktracey]

DecKie just grab a roll of thread tape for sealing all joints, its just teflon cheap as, your tank should have a thread in it already you need to match that up for your 90 deg to suit valve.
Dont panic if the thread in tank is 3/8" "bigger" than 1/4" vlave you can buy a reducing bush.
Any Bias or whitworths should be able to sell you all of it or a Gas fitting supply company will have it all. A pneumatic components supply business should have them as well.
Good luck
Dick

[cormorant]

My post from another question showed a catalog with what you may be after

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?187171-fuel-valve

Out of interest has Stag been modified to cope with newer fuels these days? Not sure if it was ever affected?. Some of the cheap nasty ball valves will allow air past under vacume so keep it simple and good quality like the airline fittings. .

[deckie]

Had a read mike, thanx mate. Much appreciated. I'm guessing you didnt learn all that from flicking bills and bonds around...you're a man of many talents.
I think i need to get out more ;D
No idea about the stag, still used religiously as far as i know. Sounds like i wont need it just to put the tail fittings into valve. Was used to put brass outlets into the s/s tanks. I dont even know if there's another product out there that does the same thing.
Fuel is one part of boating i always left to pro's..i probably should've done these two tanks myself prior to a new donk going on coz they stuffed up the fuel outlet on one tank and that made it damn hard to access changing from one to another...hence putting a fuel line valve into what should be a simple system. COULD remove the offending gumby fitting and start again but then i thought i'd rather easy access anyway so would likely just end up doing this regardless.
After reading everything and the advice i'm gonna forget about trying to drain both tanks at once as an option, and stick to one of those brass 3 way valves with tails, using equal length fuel lines from each tank, and a single line into the fuel/water thingamejig. Gives me 1 tank at a time + shutoff which is all anyone needs i suppose. Seems easiest no fuss solution and will make fuel access simple as well if i put only the lever part of valve protruding above deck high up somewhere in or near the outboard well. Battery switch is a mile away from it.
Tx for the help
Steve

[deckie]

Follow up result...coz its a pet hate of mine that we rarely see the results of most threads.
Tested this setup joining the two tanks and works a treat, plus most important its now dead easy to get at.
Tx for the help.
Steve.

[WalrusLike]

Good onya Deckie for the wash up info and piccy. Looks good and neat.

Now, I know you hate unfinished threads.... how do feel about off topic questions?? :)

Does your bilge pump pictured there pump into your motor well or out through the transom? Mine goes to motor well which doesn't seem smart to me. I'd rather a through transom above waterline exit.

[deckie]

Nahhh thats only the little above deck pump with a guard around it only really for clearing washdown water and rainwater. Had a spare bait pump (coz thats all a 500gph is) but probably should make it an 1100 which would fit same bracket but then i'd need to change out skin fittings etc, then it might be at least semi useful in an emergency.
Bit of lazy luxury i guess but damn handy on a sealed deck rig. Who knows too...might come in handy one day if i forget the bungs :-X
Simply pumps out through a stock standard 3/4" skin outlet on the side about 20cm forward of transom. Better/easier to take out thru side rather than motor well and wouldnt drill a large hole in a transom just for an outlet unless had to. No bends/connectors in outlet hose gets max from any bilge type pump. Been very useful already. There are other pumps.
Have a great day

[WalrusLike]

That's all obvious to me AFTER you said it.... :)

How dumb was I....

Yeah I see what you mean.... I think I will do the same... Straight out the side with a much bigger pump.

The one that came with the boat Is only a tiddler.

[Fed]

Sometimes OCD can be like a curse, why haven't you trimmed the little blob of sealant off the Port engine bolt.
Top job Deckie.

PS, turn the Port hose clamp upside down, could you handle that???

[deckie]

hey walrus, bilge pumps under maybe 1100 are good as clearing pumps but no good as a primary defence. Not positive but i think a 1inch hole lets in >3500gph as an idea.
That little pump wouldnt get anywhere near keeping up with just one of those bung holes being left out in the pic..BUT if it happens one day the hard part is draining it out/getting onto the trailer due to the weight of water, damn near impossible. Dumb enough to do it at Laurietin near Pt Macq about 25 yrs ago launching with a vicious hangover, never again..i hope ::). Separate little ones are great for normal bilge clearing tho.
Yeah if its anything under 1500gph i'd be assuming its not going to be much help at all in an emergency such as being holed, which is kinda what they're designed for. A panicky guy with a bucket could bail at 5 times that rate. Yeah try to keep the outlet direct with smooth bore hose without any kinks/connectors if u can.
Size just depends on what u want it to be.

[FishHunter]

Deckie I did exactly that using taps like you show. Forget marine places go to a Pirtek or equivalent and they will have everything you want to make up whatever you want. I have 2 tanks feeding 2 taps which are screwed into a gallery which turns the fuel flow 90 deg and with with one outlet feeding my racor filter.

You can see it here
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/razzo/Australia/Reef%20Ranger/P1010888.jpg

[deckie]

Sometimes OCD can be like a curse, why haven't you trimmed the little blob of sealant off the Port engine bolt.
Top job Deckie.

PS, turn the Port hose clamp upside down, could you handle that???
No worries boss...i'll get onto those jobs right away ;D. Dont dock my pay ok, just rushed it a bit i guess...sealant blobs shit me no end.
You missed the bad cable tie job too...could scratch knuckles on it, and its one of those clear one that isnt UV tolerant. Not to mention the lack of any clamp around the pump outlet ;D

[deckie]

Deckie I did exactly that using taps like you show. Forget marine places go to a Pirtek or equivalent and they will have everything you want to make up whatever you want. I have 2 tanks feeding 2 taps which are screwed into a gallery which turns the fuel flow 90 deg and with with one outlet feeding my racor filter.

Sweet setup FH, looking back what u've done is probably exactly what i needed too. Was exploring if possible to drain both tanks at same time but then realised i didnt even need that.
Fuel is one thing i've never stuffed with..always had a pro look at anything i wanted. Bit paranoid about fuel on boats. Not much idea what was available and it was never going to be a big job so thought i'd break my cherry on it.
Tx for the tip.