Black Marlin, Blue Spot Coral Trout used as berley by Spearo's

[Morsby]

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[no chicken tonight]

Karma sometimes comes dressed in grey, with big teeth!

[Back In Black]

Capt should have driven away & called fisheries. Absolutely disgraceful!! Its wanders like this that give all fishos a bad name & ruin it for everyone. I would have thought all responsibility stopped with the captain so he should have taken charge, cancelled the charter after the 2nd warning & headed in with a fisheries vessel waiting for these clowns.
Tony

[Back In Black]

Sorry, should have read 'WANKERS"- Too much wine this arvo!
Tony

[Badone]

Capt should have driven away & called fisheries. Absolutely disgraceful!! Its wanders like this that give all fishos a bad name & ruin it for everyone. I would have thought all responsibility stopped with the captain so he should have taken charge, cancelled the charter after the 2nd warning & headed in with a fisheries vessel waiting for these clowns.
Tony
Tony I agree 100% they are idiots but why call fisheries? They did nothing illegal. It is perfectly legal to shoot Marlin take a photo and then throw it overboard. There is no law saying what you have to do with the carcass. Likewise with Blue-spot Trout... it is legal to shoot them in the Coral Sea at anything over the legal size. They broke no law other than the law of good behavior. If it true that they just berleyed the Marlin and the Trout up then they are truly morons and have given all responsible spearos a bad name. I genuinely hope this story isn't true.

[NAGG]

As had been mentioned ...... nothing illegal - :arrow:Disgraceful , stupid , wasteful & selfish yes !
But no different to game fishermen stringing up sharks & marlin on a gantry for a happy snap only ......... then dump the carcas :(

Thankfully this mindset is well & truly on the way out .....

Chris

[nigelr]

Been a spearo for over 40 years and a fisho for near 50......but personally can't get with the 'trophy' mentality myself.
Lack of maturity showing there IMHO.....I'm sure they wanted their money's worth but poor ethics for mine.
Terrible waste, terrible image for the sport, pretty darn ignorant I reckon.
Thankfully, I'm confident the great majority of spearos would share my opinion these days.

[Back In Black]

Badone, You are right, probably not illegal, just immoral & stupid. When the capt speaks, you listen, & I don't care if you've big dollars to get out there, the capt has the final word. The 80cm limit on the Blue spot coral trout- is that maximum or minimum?? Coming from a fisho who has never landed a coral trout, mainly due to my own complete ineptitude, that just sounds SO wrong. Aren't they brilliant eating?? More concerned over the bad taste it leaves in the mouths of those who don't agree with fishing anyway. Why give them any more ammo against us??
Tony

[SpearoAM]

As the Individual who speared the Marlin on this trip I am very sad to see this fallout. I am passionate about spearfishing best practices, ethics and the reputation of the sport. I was fortunate enough to take a Marlin on spear on the trip, something very few people have done. Almost every spearfisher who has taken a Marlin and seen the fish’s beauty in the water before being hooked or speared, then experienced the fight, and death of the fish underwater in its element will never kill another Marlin. I certainly fall into this category. I have no desire to spear or catch another Marlin on line where Marlin suffer high mortality rates on release. I do however have no regret in taking the fish as it was an unforgettable experience which I shared with great mates. The issue of the blue spot trout could not be further from the truth. This is the second time I have been to the Coral Sea and on both trips all fisheries regulations where adhered to strictly and constantly briefed by the crew and trip operators. There were very few Trout taken on this trip despite every diver seeing at least a hundred. The reason for this is the large increase in reported cases of Ciguatera poisoning of late, with the Blue Spot Trout being one of the worst offenders. Some individuals speared a very small number of legal trout (absolutely not 1.3m fish) on the trip and following discussions with more experienced divers and fishermen felt the risk to be to great and so, instead of discarding, thought it would be better to use these few trout as burley.

To the individual who posted this, SHAME ON YOU. Not one action by any person on the trip was unethical or bad practice. This kind of hear-say spiteful posting is so damaging to fishing. Particularly in today’s environment where all fishers and spearos need to work together to not against each other.

These are the facts. I will be posting nothing further on this. I do not intend to get involved in forum banter with people who do their fishing in the pub and have no vested interest in preserving the sport. I will continue to respect the fish I catch and do everything in my power to protect fishing and spearfishing.

Andrew.

[nigelr]

Umm, WTF? Bit of discrepancy between stories.....

[Back In Black]

Andrew,
My apologies if I have upset you. In hindsight, I probably should have sat back a bit longer, let more replies come in & invariably the truth comes out.We tend to take our fellow Ausfishers at their word, as I have done in this instance, & this time it has bitten me, so again, my apologies.
Tony

[NAGG]

Andrew - I'm sure everyone will appreciate you coming on here and clarifying the situation ...... good on you for doing it!
That said ...
Personally - I still have a bitter feeling about the notion of killing legal coral trout knowing very well of the ciguatera situation. To me it's just killing for the sake of killing - specially where you are able to target exactly what you shoot . To me it doesn't sound like a best practice.
I guess for anyone reading your explanation who pay big dollars to travel to this area to experience catching these big trout would probably be feeling just a bit disappointed .

Just my opinion though

Chris

[Badone]

Badone, You are right, probably not illegal, just immoral & stupid. When the capt speaks, you listen, & I don't care if you've big dollars to get out there, the capt has the final word. The 80cm limit on the Blue spot coral trout- is that maximum or minimum?? Coming from a fisho who has never landed a coral trout, mainly due to my own complete ineptitude, that just sounds SO wrong. Aren't they brilliant eating?? More concerned over the bad taste it leaves in the mouths of those who don't agree with fishing anyway. Why give them any more ammo against us??
Tony
Tony, Blue-Spot Trout ( and Footballers ) have to be between a min size of 50cm and a max of 80cm and must be kept whole if caught in the GBR Marine Park. Not sure if this applies to the Coral Sea. Personally I don't think it is a good idea to spear them on extended charters for a couple of reasons:1. If kept whole, what are you going to do with a say 6 kg frozen whole fish when you get home.. thaw it out and fillet it?? Maybe invite 15 mates over for a bbq but thats about it.. and 2. Inexperienced divers will shoot a Blue Spot thinking it is just legal only to find that it is either under or over by a cm or two. Why take the chance when there are lots of legal Leopard trout out there. Larger Trout from the Coral Sea are often poisonous as well ( I can vouch for that personally). I wouldn't ever shoot a Marlin. Don't see the point really.

[Back In Black]

Tony, Blue-Spot Trout ( and Footballers ) have to be between a min size of 50cm and a max of 80cm and must be kept whole if caught in the GBR Marine Park. Not sure if this applies to the Coral Sea. Personally I don't think it is a good idea to spear them on extended charters for a couple of reasons:1. If kept whole, what are you going to do with a say 6 kg frozen whole fish when you get home.. thaw it out and fillet it?? Maybe invite 15 mates over for a bbq but thats about it.. and 2. Inexperienced divers will shoot a Blue Spot thinking it is just legal only to find that it is either under or over by a cm or two. Why take the chance when there are lots of legal Leopard trout out there. Larger Trout from the Coral Sea are often poisonous as well ( I can vouch for that personally). I wouldn't ever shoot a Marlin. Don't see the point really.

Badone, if thats the case, then isn't spearing an oversized fish illegal??
Tony

[Badone]

Badone, if thats the case, then isn't spearing an oversized fish illegal??
Tony
Yes it is. Max size 80cm. Same as max size for Flathead and some cod species.

[Back In Black]

Tony I agree 100% they are idiots but why call fisheries? They did nothing illegal. It is perfectly legal to shoot Marlin take a photo and then throw it overboard. There is no law saying what you have to do with the carcass. Likewise with Blue-spot Trout... it is legal to shoot them in the Coral Sea at anything over the legal size. They broke no law other than the law of good behavior. If it true that they just berleyed the Marlin and the Trout up then they are truly morons and have given all responsible spearos a bad name. I genuinely hope this story isn't true.

Badone-I thought you said he did nothing illegal?? Your last post admitted what he did was illegal. Now I'm confused??
Tony

[Badone]

Hey Tony, It is only HERE-SAY that Trout larger than 80cm were shot. Andrew, who was actually on the trip, said that they were not and I believe him rather than second or third hand gossip .. hence nothing illegal. Also different rules apply to the Coral Sea which is where this charter fished. I think that the size limits on Blue Spot Trout only applies to the GBR Marine Park which doesn't yet take in the Coral Sea reefs... that might all be changing soon as we all know.

[odes20]

...just another example of not making judgements about matters of which you havent heard all the facts, just in a fishing context. It matters in all of life. How easily we get dragged into the mire. Sadly its a part of human nature for many to run immediately with negative reports on others. Thank goodness we have a judicial system where one has to be proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt! :)

[warti]

What would you suggest they use for burley. Because your opinion of how a fish tastes to you puts it in the no burley category. Have you seen the amount of big blue spot in the coral sea? They far out number a lot of fish out there and I can also vouch that they are full of cigatura, even the smaller ones(all of them).They are inedible.There are hardly any small trout out there, the big ones eat them. Surprisingly there seems to be a larger variety of fish in the closer reefs than out there where different fish can be shot for burley. Plenty of sea bream and jobbies. If this happened in the coral sea it is fair game but in the GBR it is poor form.Don't knock a spearo for burleying fish, when fisherman kill more fish by using them for bait, poor handling, poor release methods, losses by sharks and to catch a quota. No spearo I know goes out to get their bag limit every trip like a lot of fishers I know. I do both and love them so fire away.

[NAGG]

What would you suggest they use for burley. Because your opinion of how a fish tastes to you puts it in the no burley category. Have you seen the amount of big blue spot in the coral sea? They far out number a lot of fish out there and I can also vouch that they are full of cigatura, even the smaller ones(all of them).They are inedible.There are hardly any small trout out there, the big ones eat them. Surprisingly there seems to be a larger variety of fish in the closer reefs than out there where different fish can be shot for burley. Plenty of sea bream and jobbies. If this happened in the coral sea it is fair game but in the GBR it is poor form.Don't knock a spearo for burleying fish, when fisherman kill more fish by using them for bait, poor handling, poor release methods, losses by sharks and to catch a quota. No spearo I know goes out to get their bag limit every trip like a lot of fishers I know. I do both and love them so fire away.


If you were to listen to the warnings by Qld health - you basically wouldn't eat any predatory fish over 6 kgs taken . So using ciguatera as a reason to justify the use of trout is just a smoke screen ......... I'm sure you can use plenty of other fast growing species like rainbow runner , fusalier etc if you need to burley .
btw = I would say the same to someone using YFT for shark burley

Chris

[warti]

There is not always a rainbow runner around to use. Are fusilier fast growing? There is no smoke screen, they are INEDIBLE. You would not use a coral trout for burley in the GBR.They are the premier table fish. However in the coral sea they are not. I am not saying to go open slather. Most people will disagree with this but it is legal. There is no law being broken and that is the bottom line. How many people on this site go to the reef and use stripies and hussar for bait. A good table fish wasted but not an eyebrow raised. Of course if there are pelajic fish to use for burley it would be more sustainable. But in the coral sea it is different. Most fishos hate spearos, that wont change. Jump in and have a look and broaden the horizon.

[Badone]

Well Warti hopefully you aren't in the majority when it comes to spearos. If you need to burley to spear fish then you should take up another sport. It's like tethering a goat to shoot a lion. Not very sporting. Try spearing Jobbies on your own merits. If the law is your bottom line then good on you. My bottom line is way more restrictive than " if it's legal then it's ok" .

[sambos]

I cant see how for them burlyin can be UNSPORTSMANLIKE .Most line fishers burley in some form down this way for snapper and other reefies regularly.The only problem i can see for the divers is attracting the grey suits.

[mattooty]

Well Warti hopefully you aren't in the majority when it comes to spearos. If you need to burley to spear fish then you should take up another sport. It's like tethering a goat to shoot a lion. Not very sporting. Try spearing Jobbies on your own merits. If the law is your bottom line then good on you. My bottom line is way more restrictive than " if it's legal then it's ok" .

Other than a pulling contest, what're you trying to say? You're standards should be everyones? That's like me saying I want everyone to only use plastics, no burley or bait because that's how I do it. Get real. The law is the law for a reason and if they're within it by a cm, or by 10cm it makes no difference.
The skipper of this operation has come forward on another forum and stated that he's never even seen a 130cm Trout, let alone one close to that size on the charter. So before anyone continues on putting fellow fishers (whether it be by line, spear or whatever other legal means) in the firing line with 3rd hand bullsh!t, how about you stop for a second and look at our own standards and band together.
The issue was stated, it was cleared up and that's that. If you want an ethics discussion or what you think the law should state then start another thread or do something about it. Don't just be another hero behind a keyboard.

[Zippidy]

Laws are laws. If you're abiding by them then there's no issue. Morals and ethics are different from individual to individual.

There's nothing wrong with Morsby's original post, he's started a topic with his opinion and a bit of here-say information. It gets done all the time. Spearo should be commended on his post for clearing up the facts and so should Back in Black for apologising for his initial post.

It really is a nothing issue.

On another note, went to The Regatta last night for a few Pints. They've done an awesome job on that place, very impressive!

[Camhawk88]

Reports of more spearo's on this same trip who speared multiple blue spot coral trout up to 1.3m (size limit is 80cm) - also chopped them up for berley to try and bring in green and rosy job fish. >:(>:(



This is the bit that alerted by bullshit detector. I've seen (and lucky enough to catch) some trout to 20kg. None of them went within cooey of 1.3m. Sometimes it pays to think critically about stories such as this before spreading.

[ifishcq1]

what is this coral sea crap, coral trout have a size limit in all Qld waters which includes the Swains and any of the Coral Sea they would have fished

Size and bag limits as of February 2012
Tidal waters
The following legal limits apply to fish taken in Queensland waters. A bag limit (take and possession
limit) is the total number of fish that one person can legally take and keep at any one time.
These size and bag limits are part of the Recreational fishing rules and regulations for Queensland:
A brief guide. To get your copy, call 13 25 23 or ask at your local bait and tackle shop. The rules and
regulations are also available at www.deedi.qld.gov.au
Coral reef fin fish*
Species Size limit (cm) Bag limit
All coral trout 38 min
Combined limit of 7 in
total of all trout species
Coral trout exceptions
Blue spotted coral trout (Chinese footballer) 50 min 80 max

cheers

[Badone]

what is this coral sea crap, coral trout have a size limit in all Qld waters which includes the Swains and any of the Coral Sea they would have fished
cheers
Just spoke to Fisheries. They confirmed that the bag/size limits only apply in QLD waters. The majority of the Coral Sea is in Commonwealth waters and the limits do NOT apply. They did state that because you transit QLD waters to get to the Coral Sea ( ie depart from Gladstone) that if you were to bring an illegal fish back to port then the skipper would have to have logged it as being caught outside QLD waters. Having said this, they did say that most skippers apply the QLD regs irrespective of where they are fishing... a good thing imo. So there is nothing stopping you shooting the crap out of all those big trout out there and taking a photo and then burleying them up. They are not hard to shoot.. they follow you around like friendly puppy dogs.
Mattooty, I thought this was an ethics discussion?? Sorry if I got it wrong. Agreed, it is just my opinion that burleying when spearing is not very sporting. Big Jobbies swim up to you like stoned mullet when chewing on burley. Without burley they are a challenge and to spear one is a true spearing achievement. There is more to the sport than just catching fish. I'll say it again.. my opinion only.

[nigelr]

IMHO, opinions are opinions, bullshit is bullshit.
2 different things. One needs to be apologised for, the other doesn't.
If we are capable of listening to others' opinions, maybe can learn something if we chose to.
Nothing wrong with robust discussion, we are all adults.
Spearos (and line fishers) acting within the law chose their own ethics.....not necessarily 'wrong' or 'right'... just different.
My head is still spinning from that OP though, was it real or not?

[boney-leg]

Is this the marlin?
http://www.facebook.com/adreno.spearfish

[Ihunttrophyhunters]

No one can argue that there is nothing ethically acceptable to kill any animal for the absence of necessity.



Yes it was legal....take the pics and discard the carcass again it is a legal and maybe a subordination of ones hegemonic behaviour. Folks amongst us pay big bucks, travel overseas to quench their social admiration. I am owner operator line commercial fishermen, a commercial diver for 7 years, I will go for a dive with my kids upholding the absence of necessity to harm. Trophy hunting is legal in many parts of the world, contrary to the billions of beings condoning such behaviour. Cecil the lion or Maggie the marlin.....I call out for what it is.

[gunna]

And drag out a 7 year old post that nobody gives a rats about. Wonder what the agenda is.

[roz]

I kept my first marlin, further, I ate every single piece of meat on that fish.

At the time I was towing for spanish or wahoo on the way back to the Kingscliff ramp when I hook up.

After that I decided never to keep/kill another bill fish, they are NOT ego boosters.
My second bill fish hook-up was on a Sailfish, again I was towing for macks.

The best feeling I've ever experienced fishing was watching that sailfish swim away from my boat with three Marine Institute tags that I had inserted into it's shoulder, each of the tags have numbers, these numbers are also on cards that are filled in by the angler & posted back to the marine institute, the details needed on the cards are - species, latitude & longitude, date & estimated weight and length of the fish and maybe condition of fish when released.
If the fish is ever re captured and the tags retrieved, the marine institute can establish a migration pattern and growth rate, again, the fish does not needed to be killed. There is a fifty percent shed rate for tags.

I was able to obtain tags through A.N.S.A. on the down side of A.N.S.A., I don't agree with light line class records in some cases, by that I mean.... fighting/landing a 200kilo + game fish on 10 kilo line is IMO cruel. I held a couple of records however the line class was close to the weight of the fish.
Finally, if an angler wants to keep a fish, kill it quickly, no need for it to suffer & only take what you need for the table.

Hope all that makes sense.
cheers r.

[Lovey80]

Someone joined just to virtue signal. Should fit in well around here.

[roz]

No disrespect intended, this is a topic that is often discussed, everyone has their own perspective which must be taken on board (no pun intended), as you can see from my text.
However, saying that "nobody gives a rats" ??? ...with leave it at that.
cheers roz. :)

[TheRealPoMo]

I agree with your viewpoints Roz; you'd be a good hunter. For what it's worth tho...only bill fish I've ever caught is a gar. Wait....I did land a long tom once...does that count?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[roz]

I got a little off the topic with my response.
The point I would like to clarify is - a good way to responsibly gather burly is to (IMO) save the leftovers from fish one has cleaned/filleted. It's extra work but worth the effort.
I used to have the mindset a lot of anglers still have, that being - catch as much as you can even if it's way over the amount of fish you or your family can eat.
Cheers Roz :):)