Cracks and broken welds in a quintrex? Unlikely you say?

[Chamelion]

Bought myself a 'new' boat recently - Quintrex dory 4.1WB MY2002... Completely ballsed up by not removing the bungs post test drive to make sure she was watertight. Have been playing around with her since trying to work out the source of the leak and after stripping her right down, floor out, the works I've found what I believe is the source.

Any guesses as to how much this is going to cost me to have fixed?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd46/Chamelion/IMG194_855x1140_zps4bc35153.jpg

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cheers

[Chamelion]

Note: Yes, I am playing a bit on the whole Quintrex poor QC thing... That said, I did see a bloke come into a boat dealership whilst I was there the other day. He had his brand new, two trip out bow rider (looked about 5.5m) in tow. It had a leak... Turned out there was a hole under the transom where a weld was VERY shoddily done. Can't believe that it got past final inspection, it stuck out like dogs balls. :-/

[Richo1]

Find a good aluminum welder and it shouldn't be to costly.
Looks like its had a beating or just bad welds? My quintrex coped years of punishment and was good the day I sold it after 13years. Sounds like quintrex aren't the boats they used to be.

[Matt76]

Jeezus what dirty dog sold it to you like that without saying anything!!! Shouldnt be too hard a fix, just find your custom or plate boat manufacturer and give em a look.

[Fed]

I'd take to it with a bucket full of red hot soapy water, a dunny brush and a pressure cleaner.
Get it perfectly clean & dry then put it in the water without a floor in it & find the leak.
Watch it on the inside with a very bright torch right at the bung hole and when you see the first bit of water trace it back using a dry finger and the torch.
Once you find the leak you can get the skeg, seat supports & hull all welded at the same time.

[SunnyCoastMark]

The weld quality looks OK - can't see too much wrong with the chine(?) weld that is cracked.

Generally speaking - the main cause of welds being cracked in production tinnies like quintrex is that they are constantly used in conditions that they aren't really suited to. Quite often people just don't drive to suit the conditions.
Imagine still trying to do 20 knots in a 1.5m chop. - see it all the time.

I keep hearing that they are not as good as they used to be and don't really agree with that sentiment. It is more the fact that there are a lot more quintrex's out there, being used by a lot of inexperienced people - so the number of issues like this increases exponentially of course. (no, I don't work for quintrex).

Anyway - if you get on to a good welder who does good TIG work - shouldn't cost you more than a few hundred dollars if you strip everything out and refit yourself.

Mark

[tunaticer]

Not a hard job to fix.......but the seat mounts design is lousy to be honest, get them reinforced better and it will last well.
Be sure you take it to the guy that is doing the repairs with the floor out and inside the hull waterblasted so he can find and see any other problems as well. Looks to be 2 hours work there roughly so somewhere about the 120-180 buck mark would be market value depending on the repairers hourly rate. If you want the paint touched up, do that yourself to save some coin.

BTW, remove that plastic sleeve from the seat mount before you take it down, simple things like that can turn into 30 minute ordeals to remove if they are corroded or glued into place.....time is money and your time is much cheaper than the repairers.

[astro66]

Pretty easy fix....by the looks of it who ever sat in that seat was a fat prick ....the weight has snaped the weld on the rib and then the one on the seat fixing has let go and with the leverage of the seat pole pulling on it has bent the rib over 6mm ...that seat would have been on a big angle (looks like the front seat...)
See how the gusset that the seat pole is welded to doesnt join to anything....stops short of the rib.....hit the rib back into line weld it up then weld a plate from the rib to gusset that the seat pole is on so it stenghtens it a bit(movement back/forwards or it will crack again...piece of 80x40 angle)
The hull has cracked because the rib is not holding it in that spot....tig weld it on the outside and should be ok with the rib inside fixed(if you tig it you pretty much are just melting the ally back together mig adds more material =big fat ugly weld)
You put on weight ? :P

[Jarrah Jack]

Seems you can't take a trick Chamo. I agree with whats been said and things aren't as bad as they first appear. There are no cracks along the keel which I've found to my considerable cost is an indication of under engineering and not easily fixed.

Quintrex's are no where near as strong as the early one's. My '79 4.2 has had a hard life with no maintaince and is still very strong. The seat supports are not built like your's for a start and have lasted many a fat deckie.:)

Good luck with it.

[Owen]

Bit hard to blame quintrex on this one.
That boat's been flogged.
As stated above, some big bastard smashing through chop sitting down started it and it grew from there.
It'll repair OK and won't be too costly.
Get it spotless and hit it with a stainless brush before you take it to the welder.
If you have a die grinder, groove out the cracks too.
You'll be paying $90/hr or more, so any shit work you can do beforehand will save you money.


EDIT:

Is that a crack?
Bit more of a worry if there's one there.
Cracks are usually from flexing, so one in teh ccentre of the floor points to a badly positioned roller or some other issue.

[Salad Fingers]

Hard times Chamelion but I know how you feel.

Had a brand new stacer (made by the same mob really) crack similar to this within 12months of ownership.. from brand new! Had only been on one short dirt road and never been 'banged'. They're just poor quality boats in my opinion. Mine cracked directly through the keel weld instead of the chine though, but exactly the same thing happened, a 'rib' (if you could call it that..) let go and then yeah well, obviously that was too much for it.. Got it fixed three times - got rid of it after that.
IMO once they're at that stage I would get rid of it - it will just keep coming back no matter how good your welder is.

They're built to a price point that's for sure.

[kind_cir]

Did you run over a china man?

I have a feeling you'll get her fixed up and get many more years out of it.

[Chamelion]

Find a good aluminum welder and it shouldn't be to costly.
Looks like its had a beating or just bad welds? My quintrex coped years of punishment and was good the day I sold it after 13years. Sounds like quintrex aren't the boats they used to be.

I'm going with poor design in that area and a possible beating.


Jeezus what dirty dog sold it to you like that without saying anything!!! Shouldnt be too hard a fix, just find your custom or plate boat manufacturer and give em a look.

Let him know it had a leak post purchase.. reply was along the lines of 'I'd seen water in the hull, but nothing like the amount you are describing.'


I'd take to it with a bucket full of red hot soapy water, a dunny brush and a pressure cleaner.
Get it perfectly clean & dry then put it in the water without a floor in it & find the leak.
Watch it on the inside with a very bright torch right at the bung hole and when you see the first bit of water trace it back using a dry finger and the torch.
Once you find the leak you can get the skeg, seat supports & hull all welded at the same time.

Definitely contemplating this idea.. Even if just to make sure that the only leak is from the cracked weld and not elsewhere.


The weld quality looks OK - can't see too much wrong with the chine(?) weld that is cracked.

Generally speaking - the main cause of welds being cracked in production tinnies like quintrex is that they are constantly used in conditions that they aren't really suited to. Quite often people just don't drive to suit the conditions.
Imagine still trying to do 20 knots in a 1.5m chop. - see it all the time.

I keep hearing that they are not as good as they used to be and don't really agree with that sentiment. It is more the fact that there are a lot more quintrex's out there, being used by a lot of inexperienced people - so the number of issues like this increases exponentially of course. (no, I don't work for quintrex).

Anyway - if you get on to a good welder who does good TIG work - shouldn't cost you more than a few hundred dollars if you strip everything out and refit yourself.

Mark

Hoping not more than a few hundred.. Went kind of balls out on the purchase as it was. Took a risk in not leaving much post purchase repair wiggle room financially.


Not a hard job to fix.......but the seat mounts design is lousy to be honest, get them reinforced better and it will last well.
Be sure you take it to the guy that is doing the repairs with the floor out and inside the hull waterblasted so he can find and see any other problems as well. Looks to be 2 hours work there roughly so somewhere about the 120-180 buck mark would be market value depending on the repairers hourly rate. If you want the paint touched up, do that yourself to save some coin.

BTW, remove that plastic sleeve from the seat mount before you take it down, simple things like that can turn into 30 minute ordeals to remove if they are corroded or glued into place.....time is money and your time is much cheaper than the repairers.


Pretty easy fix....by the looks of it who ever sat in that seat was a fat prick ....the weight has snaped the weld on the rib and then the one on the seat fixing has let go and with the leverage of the seat pole pulling on it has bent the rib over 6mm ...that seat would have been on a big angle (looks like the front seat...)
See how the gusset that the seat pole is welded to doesnt join to anything....stops short of the rib.....hit the rib back into line weld it up then weld a plate from the rib to gusset that the seat pole is on so it stenghtens it a bit(movement back/forwards or it will crack again...piece of 80x40 angle)
The hull has cracked because the rib is not holding it in that spot....tig weld it on the outside and should be ok with the rib inside fixed(if you tig it you pretty much are just melting the ally back together mig adds more material =big fat ugly weld)
You put on weight ? :P

Interesting theory and it makes a bit of sense.. But whether the rib cracked first or the seat support I'll never know. Definitely will get it re-done stronger whilst it's being looked at.


Seems you can't take a trick Chamo. I agree with whats been said and things aren't as bad as they first appear. There are no cracks along the keel which I've found to my considerable cost is an indication of under engineering and not easily fixed.

Quintrex's are no where near as strong as the early one's. My '79 4.2 has had a hard life with no maintaince and is still very strong. The seat supports are not built like your's for a start and have lasted many a fat deckie.:)

Good luck with it.

Cheers :)


Bit hard to blame quintrex on this one.
That boat's been flogged.
As stated above, some big bastard smashing through chop sitting down started it and it grew from there.
It'll repair OK and won't be too costly.
Get it spotless and hit it with a stainless brush before you take it to the welder.
If you have a die grinder, groove out the cracks too.
You'll be paying $90/hr or more, so any shit work you can do beforehand will save you money.


EDIT:

Is that a crack?
Bit more of a worry if there's one there.
Cracks are usually from flexing, so one in teh ccentre of the floor points to a badly positioned roller or some other issue.

Cheers, only thing I'll really be able to do is get her nice and cleaned up.. Don't have the tools or know how to attempt anything else.

Fortunately that is not a crack. It's just a bit of dirt.

Whilst they're at it I'd like to look at getting the following done: Plate for bow mount welded on, reinforce the underside of the front casting deck (terrible design from factory resulting in a bowed main cross support) and some more support for the false floor. ie: see pic... At least down the middle where the black 'lines' are. Perhaps toward the outside where the blue is as well. Down the centreline the floor has a tendency to bow in quite a bit when standing on it, though there is no sign of damage on the underside of the floor itself.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd46/Chamelion/IMG223_1140x855_zps5b76b22f.jpg

[Chamelion]

Hard times Chamelion but I know how you feel.

Had a brand new stacer (made by the same mob really) crack similar to this within 12months of ownership.. from brand new! Had only been on one short dirt road and never been 'banged'. They're just poor quality boats in my opinion. Mine cracked directly through the keel weld instead of the chine though, but exactly the same thing happened, a 'rib' (if you could call it that..) let go and then yeah well, obviously that was too much for it.. Got it fixed three times - got rid of it after that.
IMO once they're at that stage I would get rid of it - it will just keep coming back no matter how good your welder is.

They're built to a price point that's for sure.

I hope that you're wrong... I was hoping to get many years out of this boat.


Did you run over a china man?

I have a feeling you'll get her fixed up and get many more years out of it.

I hope so. It would be a shame to have to make it 'someone elses problem'... Doesn't sit well with me but at the same time I can only afford to urinate a certain amount of money into the wind.

[astro66]

Can you take a pic of the welds on the ribs in the same point on the other side......
pic one ...you can see a line were it looks like the weld has been painted....
pic two ...you can see the splater from the mig....
pic three...you can see the broken rib and the next one up have big fat welds...far one is neater not as big ...
Cant really see well from those pics but looks like its been broken on those two ribs before....

[oldie]

this type of cracking can also be from loading up the boat too heavy or more weight than its states you can take, i saw a 5m alum boat that had been re tro fitted with extra fuel tanks under floor and a heap of extra weight and it cracked down the chines in 3 places just like your photos, if you over load then hit some wind chop in a 2mm bottom boat it wont take much to crack, if you got a good motor and trailer maybe try hock the hull and buy a hull only Clark Pursuit or similar with 3mm bottomsides

[Chamelion]

Just did a fill with one side down the slope a little (less water needed to get one side flooded)... Yep, leaking like a bloody sieve.

About to spin her around and fill her up again because it appears there is an identical crack down the other side too! Rib on that side is unbroken.

Tip for boat buyers - Don't buy anything before you strip the boat down to its underwear, floor out, the works.. Check every potential weak point and weld and if in doubt, walk away.. Expensive lesson for me to have learned when I thought I had enough common sense to know better... The biggest mistaken I made is wanting it too much read: rose coloured glasses.

Will post pics/video of the leaking in a bit.

[Chamelion]

Confirmed, both sides cracked, both sides leaking.

[nigelr]

Cold comfort I know, but at least it is only a 4.2..........shouldn't cost a motza for a workable fix.
Best wishes.

[juggernaut]

Fixing up a 5mtr quinny sea breeze. Had a cracked rib as well. Had it welded up for nominal cost. Regarding reinforcing the false floor I ended up using jarrah rail screwed directly to under a new marine ply floor near the outer sides and down the centre of each side. Used Ali channel down the centre with cut outs as required.

I've also owned a commercial crayfishing boat in partnership with my brother. It was annual job to have a welder repair various cracks. Although commercial fishing boats have a fairly hard life. it was a cat 3208 turbo diesel with Hamilton jet unit so it hard a fairly flat bottom as well and was a hard riding boat. Perfect for fishing in the shallows of the Abroholos islands though.

[3rd degree]

I bought a 2002 quintrex dory many years ago now and found the same cracking.

I had the ribs replaced, and the welds cut out and re-welded, but it continued to crack.

Ended up having it done 4 times before I gave up and got rid of it. My concern is that the weld will never be as strong again and will continue to crack.

Good luck with it all.

Jim

[Chamelion]

Port side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY79mfOSm0U
xY79mfOSm0U

Starboard side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j8kDSfcCEY
1j8kDSfcCEY

[Chamelion]

I did just have a thought... I noticed on the test drive that with the trim the way it was, the chop felt like was hitting the flatter section about mid ships. It wasn't until I lowered the trim after purchase that the V appeared to be coming into play. Could this be party to the cause? - Though admittedly at this trim setting she had a tendency to plow at WOT, so I'm not sure which is more ideal.

[BM]

Have you considered going back to the seller and seeking a refund?

Or contacting Consumer Affairs/Corporate Affairs and seeking their input. Just because its a private sale doesn't mean they cannot act.

Worth a phone call to discuss the situation. If it leaked badly the very first trip out then the previous owner had to know of the problems.

Did the floor look like if had been out prior to you removing it? Burried screw heads or any other sign?

[Chamelion]

I'm going to get quotes for repair before I contact the seller.. I've just found another broken weld, this one under the casting deck, which I've just removed... Appears there may be some substance to the theory of something getting dropped on the deck (or some fat bugger riding up there through 1.5m white topped chop grr)

[ericcs]

looks like other models are also affected, as early model millenium hulls had a tendancy to crack along the keel right up the front just below the winch hook. i believe extra ribs were installed to fix the problem. seems my 5.0 seabreeze escaped this problem, and it's very well used

[Chamelion]

I don't think my Dory is a millenium model.. Doesn't have the flared bow. 2002 hull.

Returned from getting a quote.

Repair cracks under 'chine' (I think that's what that area is called)
Repair and reinforce broken seat mount
Repair broken weld in rib
Repair broken deck weld
Straighten and reinforce bowed deck support
Run reinforcement for the floor down the centreline (floor definitely fatigued down the middle where the two halves meet)
Weld in a mounting bracket for the bow mount deep cycle under front hatch
Mount 5mm plate for bow mount electric

$300 cash... Could go a little higher, but not exceptionally unless he discovers more issues that I haven't... Bit of a 'discount' for getting it all done at once, rather than in spits and spats. Can't complain with that, I was expecting 2-3 times that amount. I guess stripping everything out of the boat has saved me a healthy amount on labour. Removing and reinstalling the floor, decks and what not would probably amount to 4 solid hours at best.

Booked in for Wednesday-Thursday.

[astro66]

thats a pretty good price ...make sure the ribs have a gusset put in (or fix back to the floor ribs) or they will flex and crack again...
Ally doesnt like vibration/flexing...

[netmaker]

take the bill to the seller and see if he'll meet you halfway. worst he can say is no. if he's half decent he wont. it would still beat trying to chase him for the full amount via legal means.
best of luck

[SunnyCoastMark]

take the bill to the seller and see if he'll meet you halfway. worst he can say is no. if he's half decent he wont. it would still beat trying to chase him for the full amount via legal means.
best of luck

Good idea - you couldn't be any fairer than that. Make sure to go and see him before the repairs though, so he can't complain about not being consulted first..........

Would be good to see a couple of photos of the repairs as well.

Mark

[thomas02]

Welds look perfect. must have had a hard 10+ years.

[cormorant]

Out of interest how did the previous owner have it strapped to the trailer and was he a big bloke.? Either way that boat has done some work but a good repair will have it a great useable boat again now you have put the work in.

[Chamelion]

Welds look perfect. must have had a hard 10+ years.

I guess if it's had a hard life and it's only broken one rib weld (causing the seat slot weld to break) and one weld underneath the casting deck then she must be quite a strong boat for a mass produced quintrex. Heck, I might get years of good use out of her once the work has been completely... The hardest she's likely to ever work in my hands is a few KM of rough water between moon point and the harbour if I get caught out with my pants down.


Out of interest how did the previous owner have it strapped to the trailer and was he a big bloke.? Either way that boat has done some work but a good repair will have it a great useable boat again now you have put the work in.

Previous owner wasn't a big bloke.. 90kg at most. His uncle owned it before that, his size I have no idea.

It's tied down to the trailer using a strap at the rear. I did notice that the front 1/4 or so of the skids don't appear to be making proper contact, or any at all, with the bottom of the hull. I only noticed this when I dropped it off, so I'll have a better look at it when I get it back. May be a result of poor trailer setup?

[Chamelion]

Picked up my boat today.. total of $420 for - Weld broken rib, weld broken seat mount + add extra bracing, weld cracks in hull, repair broken weld under casting deck, straighten and reinforce bent casting deck support, weld in tray for deep cycle under casting deck, add 13 lengths of C section for added floor support, mount bow mount electric.

The only pain is that the paint has discoloured and bubbles on the outside above where the hull cracks were welded up.. I assume with so much heat it was unavoidable. That said, I can fix that up at some point anyway.

In regards to the bow mount.. I had initially wanted to get a big thick plate welded on, much like the hornet trophies come with stock, but doing it this way was cheaper and appears that it'll do the job great.

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[astro66]

They didnt tie the floor gussets back to the ribs that cracked ??? they cracked because of poor design/flexing the weld does stuff all .....they will crack again....just the seat mount wont break next time...
They should have tig welded the outside....those welds look ....ummmmmm ...

[QuinTin]

gee i would say shes had a hard pounding in her life for sure i have own a 4.45 quintrex from new (2002) model with a 50 tiller mercury 2 stroke
done most of its work in moreton bay and most who fish that area know what it gets like out their at times and i have not had a crack yet touch wood but its a wonder :)
i think alot of it comes down to the person driving it not saying you the bloke before you who owned it they dont know how to drive to the conditions of chop/swell
some just go flat out and pound away at their kidneys hahaha anyway sorry for your bad luck with the quinnie and glad ya got it fixed hope all goes well for ya :)

cheers QuinTin

[Moonlighter]

Looks heaps stronger now!

Time to buy some Tef-gel to go on all those stainless screws when you put the new floor in. Either that or dura-lac.

Will be great to see her all back together again. Please keep us up to date with progress photos.

cheers

ML