Road Rules over Road Rules

[flatstrap]

I had an interesting journey by road heading to Mackay from the Gold Coast trailering my boat Flatstrap. All was well until I got to Maryborough. The Transport inspectors pulled me over and declared my boat trailer unfit to travel. Held up over an hour in a road stop high in ammonia as the truckies that are pulled over utilise the break as a toilet stop. They didn't like the trailer and the way it was set up and issued me with a repair order within 18 hrs. I continued on to Mackay in excellent shape despite the appalling road conditions. The main issue is that they demanded an 'Engineer's Certificate' for the trailer. No such requirement is in force. The trailer was recently over the pits at Southport and is currently registered. To cut a long story short, they were asking me to comply to rules of manufacture that don't exist. Oce**nic Trailers agree. The Coomera Police agree. The Police said to take up the matter in court and dispute the matter. What do Ausfish members think?

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Flatstrap,
You are correct.

The trailer industry is largely unregulated In terms of design and engineering - apart from a few recent additions to the VSB (Vehicle Standards Bulletin) re drawbar specs etc. (mainly to do with imported chinese rubbish)

This is not a good thing as any joe blow can build a trailer and have it registered. Braked trailers have to be inspected - but this is generally cursory and largely dependant upon the experience of the certifier (and whatever commonsense he has) - as there are, no "rules of manufacture"

Transport inspectors regularly overstep their bounds when it comes to small trailers (under 4.5t) - Obviously there are times when a trailer is clearly unsafe or overloaded - where they usually err is when they start to try and police areas of design and engineering. Let me tell you - it's my experience that most of them couldn't weld two pieces of steel together to save their lives. The ones I have had dealings with - well lets just say you could write what they know about trailer building on the back of a postage stamp with a mop.

No box or boat trailer is issued with an engineers certificate - there is no such thing.

What was it that they didn't like?

Mark

[wayno60]

I built a trailer a few years back and when i went up to southport to rego the thing the girl behind the counter didnt even look out the window at it.....i could have made it out of 25x25 box.....all she was worried about was the tyres and axel.......and how much the boat weighed...bit slack if you ask me....

[flatstrap]

Hi Mark,
The Transport Inspector questioned the engineering design of the load sharing tandem (3) axles. His opinion was that the design was suspect. The amount of weight on the drawbar. The rust stains on the drawbar. The outboard legs partially obscuring the tail lights when viewed from the side. Non original bolt securing hitch to drawbar (I replaced it with a hi-tensile nut and bolt). Then he started on my car...Wanted an engineer's cert on the full harness seatbelt and why did I have non-std bucket seats (Recaro)? On a later conversation, he admitted he wanted a welder to look at it not a mechanical, civil, or chemical engineer. No such thing as a welding tradie. You're either a boilermaker or a fitter & turner. WHAT do you want???
Why would I risk it and skimp on a trailer to carry a 80k craft?
On the other point..Why would a Traffic Inspector enforce rules or laws that don't exist? The road rules permit electric drum brakes on a boat trailer!!!

[Feral]

Well the down load on the tow bar, the rust and the covering of the lights he is perfectly able to question. Axle configurations there are rules on how and what, I dont pretend to know what they are though. Maybe he was just not good at communicating what his issues were.
Always been the way with full harness belts, the car should be blue plated to use them (for the mounts).
Same with the Recaro's, if not using original mounts.

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hi Mark,
The Transport Inspector questioned the engineering design of the load sharing tandem (3) axles. His opinion was that the design was suspect. "The amount of weight on the drawbar. The rust stains on the drawbar. The outboard legs partially obscuring the tail lights when viewed from the side. Non original bolt securing hitch to drawbar (I replaced it with a hi-tensile nut and bolt). Then he started on my car...Wanted an engineer's cert on the full harness seatbelt and why did I have non-std bucket seats (Recaro)? On a later conversation, he admitted he wanted a welder to look at it not a mechanical, civil, or chemical engineer. No such thing as a welding tradie. You're either a boilermaker or a fitter & turner. WHAT do you want???
Why would I risk it and skimp on a trailer to carry a 80k craft?
On the other point..Why would a Traffic Inspector enforce rules or laws that don't exist? The road rules permit electric drum brakes on a boat trailer!!!


1) So, in "his opinion" the design was suspect. - Did he say that it did not comply with any specific part of the "Act" - or was it just his non certified opinion?

2) The amount of weight on the drawbar would of course only be an issue if it exceeded the amount on the towbar manufacturers plate. I take he didn't actually do a load test?

3) Rust stains are NOT an issue. If there was structural rust that had left holes or eaten away through half of the steel - OK. Other than that - the most he can do is to tell you to keep an eye on it - and suggest that you treat it/ repair it before it becomes an issue.
4) Couplings should always be fixed with High Tensile bolts.

5)Yes - tail lights do need 180 degree viewing from the back - so he is legally right there.

Why would they enforce laws that don't exist? - Basically, some are wannabe cops who constantly overstep their bounds. Offering their opinion - and then trying to make it law so to speak, is a prime example of that.

Mark

[cormorant]

You don't want to go to court- have it resolved without going near a court. Courts are unpredictable even if you have lots of money and are 100% right.

In NSW I have helped a friend who has a similar issue and the trailer was fully blue slipped again with the blue slip inspector fully informed why he was doing it and the query from the Dept of transport . Did it with 2 different blue slip guys and it passed ( well bar new mudflaps required as they were too high) and those were sent as response. One of the blue slip guys was a heavy vehicle inspector as well so knew the system and what mongrels they can be on a slow day. As a heavy vehicle inspector he actually queried if the bloke had the right to pull over light trailers - not sure on the answer to that. No action was ever taken and it was like pulling teeth to get a response in writing. That was on a unmolested locally made trailer. I believe the NSW RTA actually does get a copy of the engineering reports for trailers that they log in their computer system but not for ones designated H,made nor how it works up North.

What exactly is written on the repair order/ penalty notice?
What exactly has to be complied with as written ? Not what the bloke says
Is it a tamden or triaxle? Did they run it over the scales or do a brake test? Did he weigh the drawbar weight/ towball weight? Did he check the GVM of your vehicle and details on yout towbar?

Did he also put a canary on the tow rig?

Check your angles on the lights - they are in the regs ( don't think 180 deg is possible but I know what you mean- edit 45 deg either side from centerline ) - you either comply or you don't on height and visibility. Having them obscured is a different story depending on their size. Surprised he didn't go you on overhang as many trailers with boats and outboards raised won't comply.

The bolt will have the correct stamped letters and numbers on it - he should know those codes.

Bedtime reading- there may be a later version but this is the one I had on file.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/pdf/vsb01_June2009.pdf
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2009C00579

Police used to love the obscured light - but with larger lights surface area and many in multiple segments it would have to be badly obscured not to meet the minimum. The minimum is pretty small and doesn't take into accound that as lights age output lessens, lenses cloud etc etc.

6.7.5. Geometric visibility

Horizontal angle: For S1 or S2 categories devices: 45° to the left and to the right of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle;

For S3 or S4 categories devices:10° to the left and to the right of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle;

Vertical angle : For S1 or S2 categories devices: 15° above and below the horizontal. However, the vertical angle below the horizontal may be reduced to 5°, if the height of the lamp is less than 750 mm. The vertical angle above the horizontal may be reduced to 5° in the case of optional lamps not less than 2,100 mm above the ground;

For S3 or S4 categories devices: 10° above and 5° below the horizontal

[WalrusLike]

Jeez Cormorant you are a knowledgable bloke! The number of times I have seen a comprehensive, helpful reply from you is beyond counting.

You are a fount of knowledge, a gentleman and a scholar. Well done that man. :)

[Charlie]

"Wanted an engineer's cert on the full harness seatbelt and why did I have non-std bucket seats"
You seem to be in trouble with your car mods, full harness is pretty much illegal on a public road, change the seat mounts and it needs engineering, with the trailer he doesn't seem to have a clue but defect notice is easy to clear if there is no problems.

[Bros]

I'd forget about it as the inspector is not the one making the decision to go to court and the person making that decision would be smarter than to person who pulled you up. If they go to court they want to win.

Some years ago I was pulled up by an irate Evil Knievel who said I didn't give way to him while he was entering a dual lane road. I was prepared to go to court to defend this as he could only turn into one lane and I was in the other but never heard anything more about it. I assumed sensible minds reviewed it first or the cop had a rethink.

Any chance of a picture of the trailer so we can see why they might have pulled you over?

[finga]

What was actually written on the notice?
That's all you need to care about and nothing else.

As a side note most boat trailers would fail the obscured lights thingo as they tend to have outboard legs hanging down.
On the same note how many people have a flag on their outboard leg?? Any more then 1.2m from the back of the trailer needs a flag.

Another side note....a mate of mine was pulled up and told the orange strobe warning light on the back of his low loader was not allowed. He wanted to point to the purple strobes on the utes roof and say what's the diff......but thought better of it.

[Qlder1]

Slightly off topic but years ago I had to get mods inspected for an EH Holden, non std seats . disc brakes etc, etc, The inspector passed all my mods but would not pass my car because it had seatbelts that did not have compliance tags. I had to remove them before he would pass it. To this day(probably 20 years) my EH still has no seatbelts as it did not have them fitted as std..

sometimes regulations actually get in the way of what they are meant to achieve.

[Moonlighter]

Many people don't know that in nearly every situation like this, you can write to the Government Department concerned (best to do it quickly) and formally request an "internal review" of the ticket/case by a more senior officer.

You can usually state your case and provide information, pictures, reports etc as to why the action proposed in the ticket is not right, and request that they consider withdrawing it.

In a lot of cases, this effectively puts a "hold" on the court action while the internal review happens. Most Departments take this internal review seriously as they don't want action to end up in court unless they are on solid grounds.

But you need to do it well before the due date for the ticket to be paid etc.

The other thing they take into account in these reviews is the behavior of the person towards the officer/inspector at the time the ticket etc was written.

If you gave them "attitude" - you all know what I mean without me spelling it out- then rest assured, the inspector will have noted that in their official notebook and it will count against you. These notebooks and things they record in them are admissible evidence in court and carry a fair amount of weight with the magistrate, they are called "contemporaneous notes".

Not saying this has happened in relation to the OP, just saying' that it can be a factor.

Anyway, it would be well worth a phone call to the relevant Departments regional or head office, explain the situation and ask them if there is an internal review process and what you have to do to activate it.

Cheers

ML

[marto78]

Thats a handy bit of information to know ML hope I never need it, but thanks for putting it out there.

[shubeej]

good luck phoning any govt dept now they will be too short staffed!

[TheRealAndy]

good luck phoning any govt dept now they will be too short staffed!

Yawn... Probably no difference to the level of service received prior to CN.

[ubdkdd]

Police used to love the obscured light

Off topic but my Father in-law was pulled over whilst riding his Harley at a stop manned by both Transport and police. They looked his back over and noticed 2 small blue lights that faced backwards. "Cant have blue back facing lights on a bike, thats a $130 fine".

My father in-law explained it was an imported Harley and the lights had been on it ever since it arrived from the US, but it was OK as they didn't work as he had disconnected them.

"Cant have non functioning lights on a bike" was the response. "Thats another $130 fine"....


Makes you wonder....