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netmaker
31-08-2012, 10:36 AM
hi all. just got my hands on a copy of the agenda for the redland city services committee meeting for next tuesday. looks like a win for us!!!!!

1.3 WELLINGTON POINT RESERVE PARKING ISSUES
Dataworks Filename: RTT: Complaints - Parking
Attachments: Attachment 1: Wellington Point Reserve
Amended Master Plan
Attachment 2: Presentation for Wellington Point
Reserve Community Engagement Forum
Responsible Officer: Murray Erbs
Manager City Infrastructure
Author: Abdish Athwal
Senior Engineer Traffic and Transport
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
In 2010, Council redeveloped the car and trailer unit area of the reserve to the amended
master plan for the Wellington Point Reserve adopted in 2006.
Council has received numerous enquiries and complaints concerning parking bays
designated for exclusive use by vehicles with boat trailers only.
Community engagement forum was held with directly affected stakeholders to identify all
relevant issues, concerns and constraints, and to establish the key outcomes for
implementing acceptable improvements.
Outcome from the community engagement forum and the officers recommendation is to
retain status quo to parking apportionment (between normal and car trailer unit spaces),
and enforcement be undertaken with an emphasis on weekends and Public Holidays
PURPOSE
Report to Council on the issues raised at the Community Engagement Forum of 10 July
2012 and request approval on the recommended option.
BACKGROUND
On 28 June 2006, Council adopted an amended Master Plan for Wellington Point
Reserve. The amended Master Plan was the result of community comments received on
the May 2004 Council resolution to defer the 2004 draft of the Master Plan.
The key features of the 2006 amended Master Plan included:
• Reconfiguration of the trailer parking area to provide accessible foreshore green
space around the reserve;
• Access to existing boat ramps maintained;
• Improved and safer pedestrian pathways to jetty and foreshore through car park.
In 2010, Council redeveloped the car and trailer unit area of the reserve to the 2006
amended Master Plan, as shown in Attachment 1.
Since the 2010 redevelopment Council has received numerous enquiries and complaints
concerning parking bays designated for exclusive use by vehicles with boat trailers only.
CITY SERVICES COMMITTEE AGENDA 4 SEPTEMBER 2012
Page 10
Following internal stakeholder meetings it was decided that a community engagement
forum should be held to identify all relevant issues, concerns and constraints being
voiced by directly affected stakeholders, and to establish the key outcomes for
implementing acceptable improvements.
Stakeholders include representatives from directly affected organisations such as
boating and fishing groups, local businesses and residents, Queensland Police Service,
and a small number of individuals who have personally contacted Council on this issue.
The community engagement forum was held on Tuesday 10July 2012 starting at 6:00pm
to finish 8:00pm at the Redlands Cricket Club and received a good attendance. See
attachment 2 for PowerPoint Presentation.
Summary of available parking at the Wellington Point Reserve - See attachment 2,
slide 7.
ISSUES
At the community engagement forum, invited stakeholders put forwarded the following
issues/concerns (point being addressed and some stakeholder comments in italics):
 Laws should be enforced
o people parked illegally should be fined, if not things will get worse.
 Rules/guidelines for 10 percent CTU requirements
o shortage of trailer parking as per the guidelines for boating ramps, shortage of parking
in general
o boat owners paying via boat registration for parking spot, car don’t pay.
 Public Transport options
o more bus services needed
 Should CTU be shared on non-boating days
o shared 11:00 am – 4:00pm parking on non-boating days.
 Commercial business use
o boat industry employee 14,000 people.
o 10,974 power boats registered, that’s 1 boat for every 6 houses, small boat and kayaks
not registered
o Council needs to control the situation or business will go elsewhere.
 Boating weather dependent
o tides control boating, it should not be time control.
 Percentage of boat parking share after 12:00 noon
o most boats go out in the morning – boat parking areas should be used for cars in the
afternoon.
o windsurfers, kayaks have no problems in the afternoons.
 Council management of weather condition
o boat area parking controlled under the instruction of parking warden/council offers.
 Share after 1:00pm
o if boat spot not used after 1:00pm allow car to park.
 Signage needs to be clear
CITY SERVICES COMMITTEE AGENDA 4 SEPTEMBER 2012
Page 11
o need clear signage, council allows car to park in boats area one weekend and when
booked the next weekend owners say that Council has allowed the parking, leaves
enforcement not knowing what to do.
o Council offer to manage the signage on weekend.
o need Council to enforce signage.
 Influence of tides
o boating is tide dependant not time. If boat spot not used after 1:00pm allow car to park.
 Large number of boat users
o large number of boat, kayaks, windsurfers use boat area.
o boat owners paying via boat registration for parking spot, car don’t pay.
o car and trailer having to park up the hill on Main Road with boat waiting for trailer to get
picked, not suitable.
 No to bureaucracy
o Council does not use this as revenue raising.
 Support control situation
o Everyone obey the law and enforcement is required.
 Retain history as family venue
o Place for family enjoyment as well as boating, need to share the reserve.
o People come for cheap swim, BBQ etc - fines will drive people away.
 Adequate signage after 11:00am
o not enough parking on holidays leads to dual parking behaviours.
o shared 11:00 am – 4:00pm parking on non-boating days.
o parking in Reserve Esp for cars only.
 Safety issue (pedestrian)
o Need to improve pedestrian crossing point in the ramp and jetty areas car with trailer
cannot see pedestrians.
 Visitor friendly image
o need to look for more activity spaces in the surrounding areas.
Proposed options put forward at the forum:
 Warden to control parking - cost, common sense, safety
 Trial for shared CTU parking area 12- 10:30pm – does not align with weather/tides.
 Penalty enforcement - need to be consistent
 Public Transport -Translink does not have the required demand
 Greater utilisation green area - overflow parking on grass
 Differing time limits - 2H,4H,6H and enforcement
 Sun/Public Holidays - increase enforcement
 Must be legal – clear signage and enforcement
 Increase attractiveness of other areas – additional boating area and would reduce over
usage of Wellington Point Reserve
 Rent vacant block – for additional parking
In summary from the forum it was apparent that a solution that satisfied all stakeholders
was not achievable, since:
 There is clearly insufficient parking at the reserve to meet the current demand of all
stakeholders
CITY SERVICES COMMITTEE AGENDA 4 SEPTEMBER 2012
Page 12
 The recreational and local business stakeholders want more car parking, and/or the
ability to share some of the trailer parking areas when they are not being used after a
designated time, for example after 12:00 pm.
 The boating stakeholders want more trailer parking, at least the allocation for the two
ramps.
In concluding the meeting the following key outcomes were sounded to the stakeholders
who had no objections:
 Everyone obey the law – enforcement
 Status quo to current parking and enforcement. - Must be legal, clear and enforceable
signage
The Guidelines for Provision of Recreational Boating Facilities 1996 recommends the
minimum of 90 CTU parking spaces for a 4 lane boat ramp and 45 CTU parking spaces
for a 2 lane boat ramp. Therefore a minimum of 135 CTU parking spaces is
recommended for the two boating ramps at the reserve. Currently there are 75 CTU
parking spaces.
It is therefore recommended that status quo to current parking with enforcement be
proposed for Council approval.
RELATIONSHIP TO CORPORATE PLAN
5. Wise planning and design
We will carefully manage population pressures and use land sustainably while
advocating and taking steps to determine limits of growth and carrying capacity on a
local and national basis, recognising environmental sensitivities and the distinctive
character, heritage and atmosphere of local communities. A well-planned network of
urban, rural and bushland areas and responsive infrastructure and transport systems will
support strong, healthy communities.
5.12 Plan, provide and advocate for essential physical and social infrastructure that
supports community well-being and manage Council’s existing infrastructure
assets to ensure current service standards are maintained or improved
FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS
There are no financial implications impacting Council as a result of this report.
PLANNING SCHEME IMPLICATIONS
It is considered that the outcome of recommendations in this report will not require any
amendments to the Redlands Planning Scheme.
CONSULTATION
Internal and external stake holders have been consulted.
OPTIONS
Preferred
That Council resolve to retain the status quo to parking apportionment (between normal
and car trailer unit spaces), and enforcement be undertaken with an emphasis on
weekends and Public Holidays.
CITY SERVICES COMMITTEE AGENDA 4 SEPTEMBER 2012
Page 13
Alternative
Undertake a trial of shared parking along first row adjacent to toilet block after 1:00pm.
OFFICER’S RECOMMENDATION
That Council resolve to retain the status quo to parking apportionment (between
normal and car trailer unit spaces), and enforcement be undertaken with an
emphasis on weekends and Public Holidays.

WOOHOO;D;D;D;D;D
Many thanks to those who helped.

Peter4
31-08-2012, 10:40 AM
Again, good job Dave...

Muddy Toes
31-08-2012, 10:49 AM
No Davo......thank you mate.

tropicrows
31-08-2012, 11:12 AM
Good work Dave, Thanks.

TREVELLY
31-08-2012, 11:55 AM
So in a nutshell - they should have 135 parking spaces for cars with trailers and have only 75 parking spaces - so they won't take any more away but rather enforce responsible use of what is there.

Gee they only have just over half the number required - no wonder it is tough going there.

Well done Dave - it is real annoying to see cars in boat trailer spots - I had the same last holidays at Terrigal Haven - hundreds of cars in trailer spots - absolutely nothing left for us. The place was packed with hairy chested jet-ski drivers and picnicing families - good for them to enjoy the place but gee the place was mayhem with them choking up the parking - some Sydney suburbs favour a recreation location and the population move on mass there.

Be interesting in six months time to see if they are still enforcing this place effectively - hope so.

netmaker
31-08-2012, 12:21 PM
No Davo......thank you mate.

no anthony, thanks to blokes like you mate. if i did it on my own it would have made little difference as council receives plenty of individual complaints. the only reason this has worked as i see it, is because i had the numbers behind me. you blokes that use wello, put these numbers in your phones: council 38298633; cleveland police 38249333. if you see cars parked where they shouldn't be and no one issuing fines, call BOTH numbers and report it.
cheers
davo

Moonlighter
31-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Davo

Just be careful, just because the officers recommend a particular course of action, the Council doesn't have to accept it. The "win" is not in the bag yet. Chickens aren't hatched yet!

Yes, it is good that the officers are recommending a favorable response. Better than if they recommended something else.

You still should get a bunch of your team along to the meeting and one of you should stand up and address the Council clearly and politely about what the problem is and what you expect them to do.

If you don't do this, and the opposition forces who want to take over the boat parks rock up in numbers and make impassioned speeches in support of their positions, you could still lose.

Not wanting to put a damper on things, just being cautious, as I know how these things work....politics......

Cheers

ML

netmaker
31-08-2012, 12:32 PM
Davo

Just be careful, just because the officers recommend a particular course of action, the Council doesn't have to accept it. The "win" is not in the bag yet. Chickens aren't hatched yet!

Yes, it is good that the officers are recommending a favorable response. Better than if they recommended something else.

You still should get a bunch of your team along to the meeting and one of you should stand up and address the Council clearly and politely about what the problem is and what you expect them to do.

If you don't do this, and the opposition forces who want to take over the boat parks rock up in numbers and make impassioned speeches in support of their positions, you could still lose.

Not wanting to put a damper on things, just being cautious, as I know how these things work....politics......

Cheers

ML

cheers mate. perhaps i should have said "looks like a win". i am optimistic tho as the guidelines show trailer parking way below what is recommended and as can be seen other proposals are considered unviable. i will be trying to attend the meeting. my car is booked in for some work that day to make sure all is good for 1770. i have kept my work diary clear for the morning tho so if my wife is not working (relief teacher) i will have her wheels or i will have to sort something out with my mechanic.

OODIES
31-08-2012, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the post Davo, it sure looks favorable, however ML makes a a good point and I agree with his thoughts.

BINGO

netmaker
01-09-2012, 02:23 PM
just been back down the point. council officers busy writing tickets again. thats 5 weekends in a row now! busy arvo for him. there was at least 30 cars in trailer bays - probably more like 40-50. as usual i cheered him on;).

fisho8
01-09-2012, 03:59 PM
Awsome stuff Dave it is a great start and it will be managed accordingly at least well done mate. Anywhere the council and the coppers can issue a fine you can garentee they will be there and with debt collectors now going to collect fine from people who have overdue ones will be a help to deter people aswell.:)

Boat Hog
01-09-2012, 04:22 PM
Congratulations Dave and the other Wello Pt Boat Ramp users who supported this! It's good to see a score on the board for Rec Boaters and Fishers.

:) :) :)

TREVELLY
01-09-2012, 05:13 PM
Dave go to one infringement notices and have a look or check with the inspector - don't be surprised if they are issuing warnings - just a thought.

Fines are a better deterrent but it might be warning time before they go hard.

Either way it is good to see they are acting and will get a result with persistence.

netmaker
01-09-2012, 05:35 PM
Dave go to one infringement notices and have a look or check with the inspector - don't be surprised if they are issuing warnings - just a thought.

Fines are a better deterrent but it might be warning time before they go hard.

Either way it is good to see they are acting and will get a result with persistence.

yep. checked that on day 1. a fine, along with a pamphlet advising to observe parking requirements. the best view on the point 5/8/12 83818;);D;D. 49 fines were issued that first weekend:o. my new "best mate" reckons he will make a killing tomorrow too8-)

TREVELLY
01-09-2012, 05:40 PM
I did get one of those envelops on my car up at the sunshine coast and thought I had a fine but when I opened it the printout said it was a caution.

That one you photographed has the printout of a $$$ fine, not a printout with the fine amount saying it is a "caution"..?

netmaker
01-09-2012, 05:51 PM
I did get one of those envelops on my car up at the sunshine coast and thought I had a fine but when I opened it the printout said it was a caution.

That one you photographed has the printout of a fine on the outside not a printout with the fine amount saying it is a caution..?

no. the local paper reported 49 fines issued. 2 separate bits of paper in that pic.

Axl
01-09-2012, 07:53 PM
Well done netmaker you should feel proud mate it looks like patience and perserverance has paid off for you yet again (dont know where to put PLASTIC!).

Whilst the outcome is certainly a great one I was looking forward to the BBQ:P.

netmaker
01-09-2012, 08:04 PM
it looks like patience and perserverance has paid off for you yet again (dont know where to put PLASTIC!).

Whilst the outcome is certainly a great one I was looking forward to the BBQ:P.

thanks mate. missing p's were paper, printing and pissedoffedness.

may have to catch up for a hot brekkie at mud one morning instead?

WalrusLike
01-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Looking like a triumph of common sense and civil society. Everyone gets a fair go is the aim.

I admire your persistence and the sensible way you went about it. Well done all involved.... and thanks, I have never used that ramp but it is an option thanks to your efforts.

("oh god," says Dave, "what have I done? Now every man and his dog is gonna come and use my ramp!")

:)

Axl
02-09-2012, 05:23 AM
thanks mate. missing p's were paper, printing and pissedoffedness.

may have to catch up for a hot brekkie at mud one morning instead?

Sure will mate sounds good.

ericcs
02-09-2012, 08:28 PM
went for a cruise down to the point today at about 3pm, and found only about half a doz. trailers parked. every other boat trailer park was taken up by 1, 2 and 3 cars, even had a group of maybe 10/12 skyline's/sylvia's having a little private show and shine also in the trailer parks. inspectors might have been a bit easier on them cause of fathers day? no cars had tickets

netmaker
03-09-2012, 07:21 AM
yep. yesterday was a shambles. i was there at 1pm. no parking officers and cars parked EVERYWHERE. only spot that wasn't parked out was the rigging bay. couple of new sights. first was 3 cars in a trailer bay - the last one sticking out onto the road. second was a car parked behind a boat trailer and another behind a kayak trailer! rang council and police again but didn't hang around for the result. went and blew off steam (and froth) with perry instead. parking officers obviously didn't turn up. i estimated 100 cars illegally parked there yesterday...

OODIES
03-09-2012, 10:32 AM
So you didn't get to use my suggestion Davo, putting the fines into fathers day cards and put them back under the wipper...;D

BINGO

netmaker
03-09-2012, 10:39 AM
no mate. decided these a*&%holes weren't worth my investing any more hard earned in.