Engine upgrade opinions

[NTMID8]

Hey guys,

I have a 1993 Haines Signature 470F with a 60hp Evinrude 2strk. The boat is in fantastic condition and suits me perfectly, i was considering upgrading to a HS 542F but with a little bub 8 wks away i cant justify being in debt 40k for a boat. I own my boat (no finance) and i considered that the 542F wont catch me anymore fish!

The outboard at the moment is still running fine, however it has started to blow a bit of blue smoke at start-up. Ive also been told that the tilt motor has severe rust and will require replacement shortly (at a cost of $800).

I intend on keeping the boat for many more years and i am considering upgrading the outboard. My question is price aside what is the better option, Yamaha F70F (4 stroke) @120kg (this is 5kg lighter then my current outboard) or a 75hp etec which is about 130kg. Currently i feel like the boat is slightly underpowered, requiring a few seconds at full throttle to get on the plane, once there it will sit comfortably at 21knts 4100rpm.

[bf90]

mate the old rude will blow smoke all day long, it is what the older 2 strokes do. The yam 4 st are a mighty fine donk but as you say a bit extra grunt would be nice, if you are thinking about a 75 etec why not go the 90 as they are only about $500 more than the 75 and they weigh the same. A yam 90 2 st are a good donk too. If you dont use the boat every weekend so to speak how about a 75 to 90 tohatsu? they are a good donk and are the cheepest of the bunch. IMO if you dont go out every week and clock up lots of hours Go the 2 st carbi motors,(yam, toe-e,merc ect) as they will use more fuel than a 4 st or a di 2 st but the money you save on the purchase price will make up for the extra fuel.I went from a 70 johnno old school to a 90 honda. The honda cost me a lot of extra $ over the old school donks but I do a lot of hours so the fuel savings kick in for me. Cheers and tight lines brad.

[Darren Mc]

Hey NTMID8,

If i were in your shoes i would go in the yamaha direction whether it be 2 or 4 stroke.

What is the max hp recomendation on the builders plate?

My personal preference would be 4 stroke (a lot quieter and more economical) around the 70hp or 80hp with the correct prop so that you can achieve max rpm with your normal load.
Kind of sounds like the prop you have at the moment might not be quite suited to that boat.

I've been down the etec path and honestly after the troubles i had with it i will never go that way again.
In saying that other people have no troubles at all with them, maybe it was just my bad luck.

[nigelr]

Also take into account who is the best outboard mech/dealer in your area that offers the best service and that you trust.
I'd be buying what he carries, personally. BF makes a good point for 2S motors, IMHO.
Tohatsu 70 is a nice motor, the 90 could be overkill depending on how many you fish with?

[ericcs]

assuming your 60hp is a 3cyl. not one of the older 2cyl. ones that were available in the 80s, it is a detuned 70hp, so if you buy a new 70 2s carb. engine, you may not get much of a performance gain, unless it's a detuned version itself.
as for the rusty trim motor, haven't seen a omc one that doesn't have rust flaking, so don't stress on that one, never hear of them failing

[fishing111]

delete....

[NTMID8]

Cheers for all the replies, i havent checked the build plate yet however the Haines Signature website lists max 60hp and 170kg however the exact same boat (470df) lists max 75hp and 170kg. I cant understand why they are different powers but will confirm with build plate.

The engine is the 3cyl version (how hard would it be to increase to 70hp?)

I would fish every 6 - 8wks usually with 2 people (ie me and friend/wife) i dont do huge km's (between 20 - 30 km each trip) but was freaking out about the smoke.

I currently run premix (50:1) so prehaps to much oil? when i shut it down i pull the fuel line off and run the motor on the muffs until it stalls (mech advised to do this so when the fuel evaporates out of the carbs doesnt leave a big build up of oil)

[bf90]

Mate you have one of the best donks produced by omc, to hell with the little bit of smoke, mate even if you used 150 litres of juice a year, going by the outings of every 6 to 8 weeks, that is about $240 in fuel(depending on price) and around $90 for oil. So lets say $350 a year to run your boat with the current motor. If you get a newer or new donk how long will it take you to get your money back in fuel savings? As far as the tilt motor goes just give it a good scrub with a wire brush and some sand paper and put some kill rust paint on it, it will last for years yet. As far as the boat feeling a little under powered are you reaching full rpm at wot? If not than you need to drop a pitch in your prop and that in it self will make a big difference in take off.

[Blusta]

I would choose on engine cc's and weight not hp, so I would lean towards Tohatsu 70 TLDI and Etec75 for high tech motors if you troll regularly. If no trolling a carby two stroke 70 like Yamaha, which is light, would be the go .

[PADDLES]

i reckon keep it until it blows up, a little smoke on start is normal for any conventional 2 stroke. you say it doesn't owe you anything and it is worth practically nothing to sell so you might as well get as many hours out of it as you can and simply upgrade when it's cactus.

[NTMID8]

Perhaps i need to spend some time trying to set the engine up properly and fit a foil to assist. I can only get about 5600 - 5800 rpm flat out which equates to 26knts on calm water.

[Chimo]

A foil will let you plane at a lower speed and will be a benefit for that side of things. When your your up and planing ideally, if you had long enough arms and were not worried about losing fingers, you should be able to place a flat hand on the water surface between the bottom of the foil and water surface; so as to not be affected by foil drag which may drop your top speed.

Then again being able to plane slower is rather handy if those are the conditions your often in while off the coast.

Cheers
Chimo

PS To answer your question, for the survival of the species ie 3 seconds of bliss and in spite of the $500,000 cost to get the result to leave home.

[deckie]

I'm with others that reckon keeping it is a good option. Good solid 2 stk model and u dont get a lot of usage...a bit of smoke is nothing as long as u havent noticed it getting significantly worse or obviously bad. Nothing wrong with a bit of 2smoke dancing on the water on a cold crispy morning at the ramp, and that wiff u get when u back it off downwind just reminds you its there...meaningless. Its an exaggerated issue for people these days i reckon...women can whine about it but if u hand them your credit card they'll happily wander down George St Sydney in the exhaust fumes all day long without complaint.

It might be a fraction low on grunt but 26 knts isnt exactly crawling for a fishing boat if thats with a cpl of guys and gear on board. Many 4.7m-4.8m glass cuddies use 60's and go just fine. Yes, very good chance a good foil will improve lift out of the hole if its needed but wont help high end speed and maybe check one or two other things first. Have you had someone looking over the back at WOT to check motor isnt mounted a fraction low ? Lifting it a notch might surprise u with performance. Also u could think about a prop. Slicking the hull underneath can help too. Looking at where you're carrying weight can significantly help holeshot on this type of rig...bloody good all round fun boats that do just about anything without being a pain.

Yeah just about every tilt has rust on it...only you can tell if its "severe" or not. When spruced up and sprayed with the factory colour they suddenly look ok again. Wouldnt spend money on something that aint broken...might do u another 15 yrs. Sounds like its the 3 cyl 60 which have a pretty good rep, wouldnt assume any big gains in performance until 70+ hp and even then it might be simply top end speed up by 3-4knts max but little hole shot improvement. Yes u will use less fuel with a 70 4stk yam for instance, but think to yourself "did i get a good deal when i bght it" ? An extra 20-30 bux on fuel for the day for a 60 aint an issue to many when u consider cost of changeover.

Just check also u trim it down before taking off, " a few secs " to lift onto the plane doesnt sound in anyway slow to me at all...usually big top end speed gain as u trim the nose up onceup on the plane. You prob already do this anyway. I dunno...doesnt sound like its underpowered by much, but shouldnt really need full throttle to get out of hole, maybe just expect less coz u will use far less fuel if u dont hammer it up onto plane...gradually is just fine (whats the hurry ?? get where you're going 10 seconds sooner matter ??) and a good foil will more than likely help that significantly.
Steve

[cormorant]

Clean up the existing trim unit as easier to fix before it fails than afterwards. There were some with bakelite covers rather than tin and you may get one aftermarket in the states. They are a pretty thick tin cover so they rust for a long while but best to clean it up and then use propper paint protection and if protected it will outlast you if you have a good battery. . Run good quality oil and keep your cash in your pocket. Props , fresh fuel , a tune , decarb and setup will possibly help a lot as other have all said. Do a compression check and keep a record of it along with your WOT speeds/ revs so you can see if anything starts to go wrong ( and you have a baseline for any improvements) with teh motor so you can look into it before you have a serious motor problem.

Easiest way to get extra HP

Lose some of the useless crap and extra weight we all carry in out boat and we all carry it in the wrong positions on our boats.

[Blusta]

I am actually surprised the 60 two stroke carby winds out to 5800. I thought their max recommended was between 4500 and 5500 so it sounds like you are getting as much out of it as it will give. I am not sure but someone will probably correct me.

[Blusta]

Oh I think I will get some hence-unused-in-the-last-two-years crap out of my boat. Good idea!